I know, me and my big mouth

Cheers,
Badeskov

My name's not Zaus. ...but....maybe that technology WAS developed further....and is still a work in
progress.....but is not common knowledge or commonplace?

Such things would be highly classified....because of the implications for defence and modern warfare.

I know some others here think that's an unreasonable response, but I happen to agree with it. It's a known fact that certain technologies are kept secret for one reason or another. If someone has learned how to use teleportation, than dating it back to the 1940's or not, I don't see why it would be so hard to believe that technology would, or could, be kept secret for certain reasons.

Now with that said, please don't confuse me as someone that thinks it is currently being done, but if it is I wouldn't be surprised if it's kept secret. A more realistic scenario perhaps is that it's something they may still be working on.

Anyways, I know others are laughing at him, but for the most part what I read from Zaus in this thread seems like it should at least be plausible.

To the best of my knowledge, there are definatley scientists (not goofy ones, but respected ones) that really do believe in other dimensions, and that time travel, or traveling faster than the speed of light could certainly be possible. I must say I'm a bit surprised at how easily some are dismissing comments Zaus has made.

I'm far from an expert, so my knowledge on such a topic isn't so great, but from what I learned throughout highschool, and through watching certain shows on the Discovery channel or what not (and no, I dont mean UFO based shows, but shows that teach you about science and the universe), some of the things Zaus has mentioned are certainly thought to be possible by respected people in the science community.

Admittedly, I can see the problem with that for several reasons. First of all, the ramifications of a working teleportation device would be so extreme that the world would be a very different place today, if it was put to use.

So they kept it a secret throughout the cold war, under the same administrations that delivered us the Watergate and the Iran-contra scandal, just to mention a few. I find that highly unlikely given the people that would have to work on it. Those would be the best of the best scientists (and scientists are notoriously open mouthed) and there would be quite a few of them. Secondly, the Soviet had the Manhatten Project thoroughly penetrated and I see no reason for them not to get a whif of a teleportation project as well.



Oh, I can imagine that they are working on something along those lines, along with some other very exotic projects. But it is pretty obvious that it has nothing whatsoever to do with a poor US destroyer anchored in Philadelphia in 1943.



No, it is not possible along the lines described for reason stated along in this thread. And the reason for the amusement is the absolute lack of knowledge of the field from which he is lifting his arguments. It's a complete disjoint set of physics arguments, which for most parts have no impact on the discussion at hand and are completely irrelevant, used and cited wrong and out of context.



Yes, there are theories dealing with multiple dimensions on top of the 4 we see (string theory comes to mind) and they are very relevant and well founded. And I would have no issue if Zaus had gone into that (assuming it done correctly). But when a profound lack of understanding of the field at hand is displayed, by not grasping even simple high school physics, it gets...uhm...problematic. Honestly, even a poor educated armchair physicist can recognize that.

Bottom line, the Philadelphia experiment is a hoax and it could never have happened based on the story as described. We have vastly more powerful magnets nowadays and any of those have yet to disappear and show up somewhere else in the world. And stitching together a patchwork of irrelevant physics in the completely wrong way will by no means change that.

Cheers,
Badeskov

Zaus,

I was contemplating whether or not to answer as I don't really have the time for such, but it got the better of me.



To me it is the other way around. Science is not garbage, by far, and it would suit you if you actually learned something about it so you could use it correctly.



That is a dream. We have very good knowledge of what the ancient Egyptians knew and what Tesla knew. The latter's work is very well documented and there are no hidden treasure troves.



Time-space manipulation is certainly possible and I think most people realize that. But just not along the lines as described here.



Sigh. See earlier post on Tesla. But you are right that it is theorized that the neutron has localized charges. But that doesn't change the fact that it overall is neutral (has no charge) and can thus not be manipulated by electro-magnetic means.



OK. What bearing does this have on anything.



No, time dilation is the fact that clocks slow down when approaching relativistic velocities. But E=mc^2 is not the equation to use to show that. First of all, that is the rest energy, i.e. the energy equivalent when the particle is not moving. Secondly, time dilation is given by (Wiki would be a very good place to start for some simple reading on the subject):



The relativistic mass of a particle is given by (from same page as reference above):



where



is the Lorentz factor. Oh, and the relativistic energy-velocity relationship is given by:



I don't mind a good discussion, but please do make an effort in getting your physics correct.



Nobody is discarding it; physicists just happen to know a lot about the subject and know that it isn't going to happen as outlined by you (it is basically plain out wrong).

To be continued...

Continued from last post...



Math is a tool.



No, math is a tool used to describe the physics and thereby make predictions of our observable universe.



No, the laws of math is NOT used by nature all the time; First of all, it is the laws of physics you want to look at here, and they are the best description possible of our observable universe. Math is just the tool we use to describe it.



No, he wasn't by far. He was mainly using other people's theoretical work and then trying to build something practical out of it.



So. Again, he was a great engineer. But he wasn't such a brilliant theoretician.



OK.



Because it is vastly different concepts. There was no law saying that we could not break the sound barrier, the problems envisioned were mainly engineering.



Absolutely not. Sound is a vibration of air and light is an electro-magnetic wave (or a particle). While it might sound similar, it is only on the surface.



Completely unsubstantiated and undocumented - and completely useless.



Nope.



Complete and utter nonsense, sorry to be so frank. Plain out wrong. I don't think I can be any more clear than that.



Sigh. This is simply nonsense. First of all, Tesla never published his dynamic theory of gravity. And almost all physicists at the time regarded it as beyond any reason. One wonders why physicists nowadays isn't using it, but some obscure author can apparently make ground breaking results from it and publish, no less, at youtube.

Honestly, the ignorance and contradictions in that is just astounding.



Yet, the aforementioned author can promote it on youtube?! Please explain how that is possible?!



Of course some of them were ignored as they are now; they are simply not correct.

Cheers,
Badeskov

Badeskov, you are my newest hero!

Another fact is that in 1955 an auto parts salesman and amateur astronomer named Morris K. Jessup published a book called The Case for the UFO. In his book, Jessup speculated--among other things--that anti-gravity and electromagnetism would be better than rocket fuel for propelling space vehicles. The following year, Carl Allen (a.k.a. Carlos Miguel Allende), a somewhat brilliant but very disturbed human being, started the hoax by writing letters to Jessup telling him of The Philadelphia experiment. Allende claims that he witnessed the disappearance of a ship while on board the SS Andrew Furuseth, a merchant ship. He also claims he saw some Eldridge crew members disappear into thin air during a fight. Allen sent an annotated copy of Jessup's book to the Office of Naval Research in Washington, D.C. Jessup was summoned to Washington and turned over the Allen letters. Later, the Varo Corporation, a firm which did research for the military, published the annotated version along with Allen's letters to Jessup. Jessup committed suicide in 1959. Allen continued sending strange annotations to relatives for many more years, as he drifted from place to place.

The speculations regarding the origin of Allen's story have run rampant. Some say that he was there and saw it all. Some say that Allen is an alien and channels information. Some claim that the Navy is covering up the experiment and their complicity with aliens. The simple truth is that Allen made it all up.

Allen's hoax has grown into a legend which has been spurred on by a number of books, some of them fictional, some non-fictional, and others fictional but claiming to be non-fictional. In 1965, Vincent H. Gaddis's Invisible Horizons: True Mysteries of the Sea was published. In addition to stories about various disappearing islands, aircraft, and ships, Gaddis presents the basics of the legend as created by Allen in his letters and published in the Varo edition of Jessup's work. In 1977, Charles Berlitz published Without a Trace: New Information from the Triangle, which included a chapter on the Philadelphia experiment. Berlitz is a frequent source for stories on strange phenomena, such as Atlantis, the Bermuda Triangle, and Noah's Ark.

In the fictional category, Thin Air (1978) by George E. Burger and Neil R. Simpson stands out. It is about a Navy investigation of a cover-up of an experiment involving the USS Eldridge in 1943.

In 1979, The Philadelphia Experiment: Project Invisibility by William L. Moore and Charles Berlitz was published. This book is fiction but claims to be fact, and plagiarizes parts of Thin Air. In the Moore and Berlitz book, not only the ship but several crew members disappear into a new dimension, never to be seen again (unless, of course, you sail to Atlantis on Noah's Ark through the Bermuda Triangle where you will no doubt find these sailors holding a séance).

In 1984, a movie called "The Philadelphia Experiment" was produced. It was directed by Stewart Raffill and was based on a screenplay by William Gray and Michael Janover.

There have been other attempts to exploit the gullible with stories about this so-called experiment, but two stand out as more insane than the rest: The Philadelphia Experiment, and Other UFO Conspiracies, by Brad Steiger, with Alfred Bielek and Sherry-Hanson Steiger (1990); and The Philadelphia Experiment Part 1- Crossroads of History, presented by Alfred Bielek. The former is a book which rehashes the usual stories of CIA plots, government conspiracies, secret meetings with aliens, trips to Mars, visits from the Men in Black, etc. The latter is a video featuring a man who claims he was a physicist on the USS Eldridge in 1943 and was part of the team that conducted the experiment. Bielek claims he time-traveled in 1943 to 1983 during the experiment and lived to tell the story, only to be harassed by the U.S. government for his troubles.

Exactly. it's always the standard answer that "they're keeping it secret", but keeping it for what? When the aliens attack? it seems similar to the "prove that they haven't" argument; we (they say) can't prove that they do have it, but you can't prove that they don't, because they may just be keeping it secret. Are they still working on it after 60 years? That's a remarkably slow pace of development, considering that they got the A-bomb working in, what 5 years?

Yep agreed. That is the usual 'believers' cop out question. Put forward a stupid theory & then say 'you don't know it's not true, so it could be'.....total cop out.
'You don't know that a 4 inch high pink elephant doesn't live at the bottom of my garden, so it could be true' .....also works for..... bigfoot, ufo's, alien abduction, atlantis, loch ness monster etc etc.

Yea!


Mine too, D!

Bravo Bady!


...maybe Zaus might actually study the Lorenz Transformations and come to an understanding of Special Relativity??? Maybe?


Nah...but it's worth a shot, I suppose!

Nice job, again!

M~

does it seem that a slight swelling of the cranium in here is happeing?then the eyes start to bug out or shape into dark almond looking lens,and being inside all day and nite posting our skin starts to go? GREY!!! Ohh No! its happening to us here right now LoL DONTEATUS

First of all, MID and Debunker, thank you so much for the kind words. It is always an encouragement to know that one's opinion is actually appreciated, like yours most certainly are.



That would be very nice so a coherent discussion of an otherwise rather interesting field could be initiated. And the Lorentz transformation is not only a good place to start, but also an interesting place due to the ramifications it has throughout physics



Well, always the optimist



Again, thank you

Cheers,
Badeskov

Now, that would be scary, wouldn't it?

Cheers,
Badeskov

Umm.....where did Zaus go?

I guess it is easier to start new ludicrious and undefendable threads rather than face the music in those already in existence - but as they say, is isn't over before the fat lady sings

Cheers,
Badeskov

Just keep on movin' along with all the other sheeple, blind to true wonder and infinite reality all around you.

Cheers,
Badeskov

This thread seems to have turned into a full blown sceptics love-in.......

I'm NEARLY weeping into my glass of red wine at the sight of it.....(you know...like at the Oscars..)

I guess I probably didn't discuss things so much in the way I meant. Basically, I'm not exactly trying to claim the Philadelphia Experiment happened. I guess I kinda forgot that is what this thread is tied to. I wasn't even trying to say teleportation exists, but given thoughts on time travel and other dimensions, I've assumed that teleportation is also considered something that could be thought of as a real possibility.

I noticed you mentioned the theories dealing with multiple dimensions are relevant and well founded - can you tell me if that ties into the possibility of time travel? If not, can you tell me if you believe time travel is something thought of as a real possibilty?

I'm asking because I realize you know much more about these things then I do. Like I said, I basically have just my HS education, along with certain shows I've seen on TV discussing such topics, when trying to discuss such things. Obviously, I don't possess anything close to an experts opinion when it comes to this stuff. I'm just trying to get a bit more educated in regards to certain things.

Thanks.

There was a lot of experimentation going on during WW2 around achieving Radar Invisibility, but that is a whole different thing to what seems to be the thrust of this debate.

Hi Left field,

Thanks for your reply; I will try and do my best to answer your questions, although it is not exactly what I excel in on a daily basis so I am sure some of the fellas in the science part can do a much better job than I can



That happens, no worries

Regarding teleportation it can be a bit misleading. Teleportation itself doesn't mean that we can make something magically disappear somewhere and then magically reappear somewhere else. Rather, it is the disassembly of something at point A, transmitting the assembly information from point A to point B by whatever means possible (even carrier pigeon) and then reassembling the object at point B. So far, this has mainly been done by entangled photons and only information has been transmitted by such means. However, matter has also been transmitted. Here is an experiment transmitting matter over optical fiber. The problem with the latter is of course the amount of information required to transmit yourself somewhere

Time travel is a completely different beast altogether and I honestly think I am only qualified to answer that question from a point of belief. I don't think it is possible, but that is my personal opinion and I cannot point to any other reasons besides the implications it would have on the world if it actually was possible (people coming from the future to change the past and so on.

That said, from a scientific point of view the discussion has been going back and forth. The main obtacle is really what is called the grand father paradox, where you travel back in time to kill your grand father; what happens to you then? Cause and effect. The incurred paradoxes imagined is enough for many to say that time travel is not possible. However, one team has come up with a hypothesis where time travel is actually possible, but one cannot alter anything. From Newscientist:



Emphasis mine. How that will be possible is beyond me. If one can go back in time, one would have to have a presence, at least be able to observe and that means absorbing photons. That in itself is an alteration of the reality one has traveled to and thus the above would already be violated. Again, I don't know the details so I wouldn't be the best to engage in a deep discussion with

But they are very interesting fields and there is a wealth of good information on both topics available. Some of it might seem a bit "out there" and some does require some advanced math, but with a little searching you should be able to find the relevant information without all math attached.

Cheers,
Badeskov

Edited for typos.

says it all...

Well, talking about taking quotes out of context..lets see what I actually said:



I emphasized what you decided to pick out. I also said:



And this was in relation to the theory put forth. As a caveat was included:



Which means that I don't know the details of the study at hand so I cannot by any means count myself as an authority in the field nor say as a fact whether what they did is right or wrong, albeit I would think they are wrong.

That you left out such crucial parts of my statement is rather saying. If you have anything substantial to add, please do so and you can start by doing by replying to my earlier replies to you rather than your feverish attempt by taking statements completely out of their context.

Cheers,
Badeskov

We all know that will never happen. Just another hit and run.

Unless...

Zaus!!

Are you there...?

... ... ... .. .. .. .. BRAINWASHED.

Forget everyone but tesla.

some reading material from 100 years ago when newspapers had to be a bit more truthful because people werent( see above) by TV, Radio, and the mass deception that keeps nearly the entire world in the dark, hence illuminati: to "illuminate" with "light" and/or "see"(eye of Ra/horus, perception) sea of consciousness, yes as in water, its an element, it gives you LIFE.

Tesla's New Wireless the electrical engineer, dec 24,1909.

something worth mentioning: I dont know how he does it, i just look off into space and go, gee... sure is INFINITE out there. Why do you supposed looking inward is any different, you are surrounded by infinity, what you choose not to see is your business. you are trillions upon trillions of cells. An excerpt:

"Mr. Tesla adds that in his experiments in Colorado it was shown that a very powerful current developed by the transmitter traversed the entire globe and returned to its origin in an interval of 84 one-thousandths of a second, this journey of 24,000 miles being effected almost without loss of energy." Whoa now! its been done, where is it now?????????????

Electromagnetic Therapy
Forget "western medicine" where did THIS go? and if you don't believe it ask mark twain, he was a very good friend of Tesla.



If you read nothing else, please look over these hundreds of patents in Tesla's name across the world. People Lie, People hide knowledge to benefit themselves, People who give themselves for money do not care for you. Why?? Why you ask? Look around you, you cannot survive without money, other than family and friends who will help you if you are out on the street starving?who will help you if you spend your entire life working for scraps to pay your rent, for your food, for the things you need, for the things you WANT. Noone. That is why now is not the time to be a fool, beyond money the Elite want an uneducated, docile, TV addicted, apathetic Cubicle ANT. Ants wont get in their way, ants have no mind, ants are mere slaves to the queens will.

Enough of this blatant disregard for Tesla as the greatest man who ever lived, by many means he WASN'T a scientist, he was an electrical engineer that figured out how to send electromagnetic energy over a wire using stationary electrons, something the entire scientific community had thrown off as impossible and didnt even try to do, and i might add Edison wasnt happy he joined westinghouse with his alternating current patent(without it there would be no high frequency transmission lines powering everything in your house... AND THE REST OF THE... WORLD, allow me to repeat that because i feel it is an important factor in determining the great bounds Tesla took for the sake of improving humanity, THE WORLD.

P.S.
Einstien = worked in a PATENT OFFICE... killed millions of people with his inventions...
Tesla = tried to save humanity, but was thwarted by the few who wanted to keep it secret. 100 years later WIRELESS INTERNET. ... .... .......

this was my particular favourite.. didn't notice anyody poke fun at it.. (i guess it speaks for itself?)

i don't know if this philadelpha experiment thing is 'real' or not.. be honest.. how could any of us know that for sure without actually being there? posting info about a lone nut who started a joke is as convincing as the other one posting how "it's true and we just better dang believe it"

i don't see how the eggheads could take any other stance than 'it may one day be possible' ??

arthur c clarke said 'any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic' but ecclesistes says 'there is nothing new under the sun' ..

when time-travel/cloaking of a ship is achieved in ***X years time.. would it be so hard to trace it back to a guy called tesla? if civilization was decimated and survivors re-discover electricity in ***X years time, would it be a stretch to admit that ages before (our current time period) there was also electricity being used?

everything's going to happen.. it's just a matter of time.. why the hard sell just because this one is supposed to have happened in an era when your grandparents were watching the news on a B&W TV and may still have been pumping water from a well? ..funny enough this is also the same time period when tesla was ushering in his new ideas, as sauz pointed out..

Tesla may not have worn a wizards cap and robe.. but the things he was doing were 'sufficiently advanced' to be called a 'wizard'

Zaus, the army that is outnumbered, outgunned, outmoded.. has to think of a new 'attack' strategy if it wants to prevail against the dark hordes.. rushing in with guns blazing might be heroic.. but leads to certain death.. your only responsibility is to yourself.. we'll all get to where we're going, even if we need little shoves to get there.. don't waste your time shoving those that don't respond to shoving.. it's like WW2 germany - humanitarian tries to 'shove' elderly lady out of the way of incoming tank.. if the old buzzard prefers to argue and doesn't want to take the hint, stand back, let her get squashed and keep yourself functioning.. really, that's all you can do and all you're obliged to do.. in these days of lawyers and system games you'd just end up having to pay her chiropractic bill from shoving her and saving her life..

Cmon, i mean really...

People will never stop saying things are impossible, does that make them impossible? NO, as is seen time and time again. Now though, we have it, and it fits the designs of the Elite to have the people still believe it is impossible, which is simple, just don't let them see it, or discredit it at every corner.

In reality, impossibility is measured by lack of will, which is everywhere these days.