I'm interested to hear about the turning points a lot of christians and other relgious people talk about. What happened in your life that made you wholly commit yourself to the love of God? Were you simply born into a relgious family? Or was there a great event in your life that awakened you to the love of God? If so I implore you to share your experiences here.

The day God, Father and Mother created My spirit in Heaven, is the day they showed me Love unconditional, is the day I loved back unconditional.

On Earth, I have always loved God since I could remember.

Love Omnaka

How do you experience love from God? Is it something that completely fills you every waking/sleeping moment? Or is it in times when you need a friend? Where does his love eminate from? From the centre of your being or from your surroundings? Or from both? Describe this love to me.

Love from Father, Comes in many diferent forms, Setting me up for experiences Where I could learn from my mistakes, To praying My daughter had 10 fingers and toes and was healthy, when I see a crippled child in agony I learn compassion, When I see a beggar on the streets I Think of what must have goten him to that point, when I see beauty in the world I thank him, It is very hard to describe all the ways I see love from God, I have seen many Miracles which Others might say are Coincidence, But I know where this came from.

Prayers answered, do not always happen when I think they should, but they do get answered In one way or another.
Father does a Damn good Job knockin me around some times to teach Me the things we discussed in spirit before It was incarnated in to this body. To me this is love, and I thank him for the experience, maybe not then, but once I have figured out What it was I could learn from it.

I know God loves me unconditionally,

as for this knowing from being a Baby times, I think it is just Faith, or because, being that I was just incarnated, I rememberd the love I recieved while in spirit form, with out all the things society had to dish which have nothing to do with Love. Or Being closer to spirit than Mortal as Time goes. Babys are fresh from God , they know God better than they know their parents and or society.

Love Omnaka

I think there is something in side man, which makes him seek his creator and the truth and to find his purpose among everything in this universe. Everything else serves a purpose, so must man. So born in a muslim family, i reblled from a young age and dint really practise, until my late teens, i got interested in religion, because i wanted to know my purpose, i was living life to the full, but still felt empty. So I began looking at all religions, i had an idea about islam from my upbringing, but dint really know it well,so i read the bible, the vedas, the budhist scriptures, the sikh scriptures, torah, etc, And after applying, logic, reasoning and science to all of them, the natural conclusion was that The quran was the truth and is the truth.

Do you remember your encounter with God before birth? Or is it instinctive?

So you have found your need for purpose? Because trust me, I look ahead of my life and all I see is what everyone else has already done, it feels void and pointless (with fun parts scattered inbetween lol ) I'm seeking purpose. Do you feel wholly satisfies with your life? Are you seeing anything more?

I remember the love before birth. It may be instict. But I know it's true love, so I acknowledge it, by sharing it whenever I can.


I read yous guys other posts , So that would be my purpose. sharing the love, which can mean anything, from helping others To Building to the best of My abilities, Loving Others can take many forms. It makes me feel Good and hopefully them too.
Love Omnaka

Thank-you , your outlook on life is refreshing , I hope that one day I can find the same understanding of life as you do.

I know you will, It's part Of Father's plan,

Love Omnaka

I wasn't born into a very religious family, but we did go to church, I was a Christian up until I was about 12, and then I became and atheist, I was an atheist until about 14 and then I found out about LaVeyan Satanism and followed that for about, 6 or 7 months before changing to a mix of Mahayana Buddhist and LaVeyan Satanism, I was that up until about 4 or 5 months ago and now I consider myself an eclectic Pagan, I can't really explain why I went through so many changes, I guess I became Atheist because I found out that to me, Christianity was a lie, I became a LaVeyan because it's very close to Atheism with a tiny bit of difference, Buddhism attracted me when I read up on it, and then from there I started studying occultism and after a while of that I came to a realization that made me change to being a Pagan.

Wow, that's an amazing array of beliefs . What was the realization that caused you to become a Pagan? Do you enjoy life? Do you feel that you have purpose?

lol, yea, I have studied a lot of religions, and I have switched between quite a few. The realization that made me become Pagan, like I said it happened when I first started studying occultism, it was just some ideas that I had been reading about, and some things that I practiced kind of lead to a spiritual epiphany and I realized that all of the gods that have ever been worshiped, exist in some form or another, which lead me to my beliefs. Yes I enjoy my life very much and I don't believe that life itself has a purpose, but that we each create our own purpose in our lives.

I see more, but what I have found is my purpose on this world, why i am here, there is no other religion or scripture which tells man his purpose specifically. You see everything around us, and i mean everything, from the inanimate, to animate object has a reason or purpose and a function, when i look at humans we dint seem to fit in. for example my shoes serve a purpose, my clothes do, but am i worth less than them, that i have not objective or reason to be here and serve a purpose, are we really that worthless, that we think our purpose is to pro-create, which everything around us does, a natural process of life, of living life, but not its sole purpose, pro-creation is a funtion of life, but not the purpose, so i wanted to know, my purpose, my true function here, and i found out that we are visitors, and visitors by nature always return home. Islam provided me with my purpose in life, or the answer to it.

Wow that is amazing, but i find its quite common among people with originally christian back grounds, because they reject the model of God in the bible, and therefore dont accept most religions and deviate from the truth, there is only one god.

If all we all created our own purpose, then anyone could say their purpose is to rule the world at all costs, is this then acceptable. NO. Your right god is woshipped in many forms, and numbers. but if you look at all pagan religions and im sure you have, they all have one superior being, one main god, this clearly shows that man started with one god, then felt he needed helpers, but they still retain the belief of one main god. So the truth is that, all polytheistic religions began with one god, and the man invented new ones.

I guess it was when I sat under the tree and it spoke to me. It took me a lot of time to sort it all out. Then it took a lot of research to find out what I was believing was a form of Paganism. I am very happy with my Path and at this point I don't think I could be anything but a Pagan. As I think back in my life I think I was always a Pagan and if I would have been introduced to it sooner my life would have been very different. My belief system has brought me confidence and a power in to my life I didn't know I had.
I agree with you Genocyde, we create our own purpose in life.

Happy Pagan Me

I dont understand what you mean by this, are you saying because I reject Christianity, I reject all monotheistic religions? No, that is not true, I reject Christianity because of th research I have done into realizing its falsehoods, and I reject Islam and Judaism because I have already found my beliefs that work for me, I do have an interest in Judaism, especially Kabbalah, and I have some interest in Islam, just not in the actual worship, I have no doubt in my mind that your God exists, he is just not the only one IMO, and the religion doesn't work for me

We all have same the universal purpose, you may create your own purpose, but one mans idea of a purpose is not the same for another man. Therefore natural conflict arises, between parties, therefore we are all humans, and we are all equal and should have the same universal purpose.

No, it doesn't make it acceptable, if that is what they believe is there purpose, then it's what they believe, it doesn't mean it is acceptable to other people or that it will happen.

True, most polytheistic religions do have one main god, Zues, Odin, Ra, etc. but that does not, AT ALL prove that man started out with one god, that is your interpretation of it, but other people have other beliefs, it is not proof at all, it is speculation.

Sorry i dont mean to offend you, its just in my experience i have found that even close friends of mine who had christian up bringing realise its falsehoods, and reject that model of god and thus have an assumption which they treat all religions similarly. I understand you have interest in the occult, but dont you find false hoods in them, even the kabbalah. You say you beliefs work for you, which is good, all i ask is what foundations of truth, reasoning, logic and science is it based on, and the religions you studied, did you apply all the latter to them, or did you just stick to what sounded good and in line with you preconcieved ideas. Its easily done.

Islam, on the other hand has to be studied by its source, like the source of christianity, which is the bible. The quran is verifiable, by tesbable means, and can be proven to be from God.

Ofcourse its proof, the oldest religion in the world is hinduism, its has the most gods ever, one for every occasions, so to speak. But even them they have one supreme god, brahma, who has power over all and everything. The reason they all started as polythiestic, is this, otherwise, if man had started with more than one god, you get conflict, as to which one is supreme, and you would have more likley had non which are supreme, therefore, it must have started as one god, then peopel thought, like a king needs helpers, so does god, so lets have a god for the sea, and the war etc, so smaller additions came later, thats the real evolution of polythiestic religions, they all started with one and ended with many, with additions coming later, but through out the ages, they always knew there is one supreme god, well infact there is only one god.

As for creating your own purpose, which may not happen, or may not be liked, so whats the point, its futile, the purpose must not be futile and have real meaning to it, with actions that can follow, and acceptable by all. Cause we are all the same species.

The foundations of truth, reason, logic and science I base my beliefs on is, personal experience, reading the scriptures and religious texts of different religions, and some theories in Quantum Mechanics. Yes, I have found falsehoods in many of the religions I have studied, and I incorporated all that I believed to be true, from many different religions into my beliefs (not just what sounded good, believe me I have a few things in my beliefs that I wish I didn't believe) I had no preconceived ideas about anything, I was searching for a belief system that suited my experiences and ideas, and when I couldn't find one, I adopted things from religions that I believed, and created my own, thus making myself an Eclectic Pagan.

Hinduism is not the oldest religion in the world, it is the oldest surviving religion, I'm sure the cavemen had different beliefs than what we do now, and, please, if oyu want to continue this discussion, we should make a new topic or do it in PM, I dont want to hijack this thread from what PsiSeeker wanted which was to know the turning point in peoples lives, not to debate my beliefs vs yours

My purpose in life right know is to help my follow MS friends. I didn't ask for MS to come into my life or for my purpose to change, but it did so I must make the best of it. There are many people who think their purpose is to rule the word at all cost and many of them are Muslims and Christians. I don't see many Pagan doing that cause is would be against our belief system. I am a polytheist and my Gods are many there is no main God in the way you think of one. I think there is a God of Abraham too, but IMO for a God he is a bit of a nut case. I was warned to stay away from him, by one of my Gods. I am a Child of the Earth not of Israel.

i see, so you did take what you like and what fitted in with your pre-concieved ideas based on experience and knowledge. You see when i studied those religions like you, i applied, reasoning, logic and science, which are means of verifying the truth by testable means. If you cant apply that then its false, or after applying this, you find a lot mistakes, imperfections and nonsense ,you know its fake. Infact a scientific priniciple is a falsification test, einstien even used it. What falsification test do you hve for you religion, can i test it, or do you admit, there are some falsehoods in it. If its the latter then, you are still far away from truth. the ultimate truth is one, god is one, and hsi religion is one.

YOu see applied all the above to all the religions and i found that only islam anwers them and comrehensively, also it not only offers one falsification test, but hundereds. If this book was from a man, no man would write something and then ask the reader, i bet you cant find a mistake.

Again, apply logic reasoning and science, and your faith will have no foundation of truth. I dont mean to offend you. Your purpose is to help your friends, this is an aspect of life, its a minor funtions it not the sole purpose, and if your do create your own, thats prb why we have some much conflict, of we all had a same purpose a universal one, no conflict. You say your gods are many, but i bet one of your gods, has more power than the others. I bet there is a supreme god, but if you have made your religion up recently then i dunno for certain. Cause i think nowadays anyone can build a religion based on falsehoods, then the same poeple reject the god of the bible under this notion of falsehood, but then make many falsehood and call them gods.

The christian, jews and muslims believe in the same god, hell you know what hindus, the oldest polythiestic religion of the world or one of them, actaully in the scriptures preaches only to worship one god, but yet they have the most gods in the world.

When I say suited my beliefs and ideas, i dont mean that if a religion had something i didnt like i would dismiss it, by 'beliefs and ideas' i mean the personal experiences i have had, and i was looking into a religion that suited me as a person, i did not pick and choose things, as i said

So if i were picking and choosing why would ihave things i didnt like?



As did I




There really is no point in arguing, you aren't going to convert me lol, my religion does fit into some theories of Quantum Mechanics, as I already said, which is a field of science, therefore, i DID scientifically test my beliefs, also, personal experiences are hard to discount, I have experienced my gods' existence, therefore, I KNOW it to be true, I also KNOW that you God exists.



And that is your belief, you found Islam, and believe it to be true, and I believe my religion to be true, there is no point in trying to point out falsehoods in my beliefs, when you know nothing about them, if you are going to continue proselytizing to me then I will stop replying, I don't mind having a friendly conversation about my beliefs, but you seem to be trying to convert me, and that i do not like.

I had no real turning point. I was brought up in an ecclectic, even hippy-ish new-agey family... it was a good thing, but I was largely agnostic at best. I had no real reason to search for anything else. I've always had a sense of something... early on, it was a sense of "self" that was quite atheistic and good. Later, I simply had a notion that there might be something more to it. There was. I haven't really changed at all from the atheistic person I was, I still have that sense of self, but that sense of self is slightly more ethereal now. It's good.

I think people have a very difficult time separating out the doctrines, dogmas, practices, and chachkis that come with religion from the true spiritual nature of religion and God.

It's no suprise that the Christian denomination(s) that speak to me the strongest are the "plain" faiths, ones without rigid doctrine or dogma, no set religious practice (but strong social practice), and no chachkis. The ones that speak to the spiritual nature of God, not the mechanics and ceremonies of God.

Well for me I was raised catholic...and that laid my foundation. Eventually though I had to find my own beliefs instead of relying on other's views. I started getting into other religions and learning more about spiritual matters. Mainly because I was following my experiences and interest, I had seen ghosts,had strange dreams, etc. That led me to the Ancient Egyptian pantheon. I continued on looking into different things...and well in most recent years, I was led by Fate. I'd been interested in anime a lot during recent years...and while searching more about them I came upon Reiki healing and their principles of living and then Alchemy transforming yourself. Since then I've kept growing...turning to Buddhism and channeled writings. Basically Fate has led me around building me up into a constantly growing amalgam of beliefs. However, most recently a close friend of mine has really set me on my most recent path. I'd say she is the real miracle. I've gone from dreaming and wishing the world to change, to making it happen through me. I've become a pacifist, and so much more. So all in all you could say I was taking lefts and rights onto and off of different paths, and now my friend put me on the highway to "God"(or whatever you want to call it). The closest label you'd give me would be an Eclectic Wiccan.

Blessed be, everyone!

................I was raised in the Nazarene Church. I left when i was 13 years old. I totally ruined my life. I didn't know what (Sin) was. I started smoking, that was the start of my down fall. Then came drinking, sleeping around with every girl i could get. The worst think i got myself into was (Drugs). I started with white cross pills then every speed pill you can think of. Then i went on to cocaine. I got totally out of control when i started shooting up. I move on to crank.Then to crystal meth. I tried everything to stop but i could not. I went to A A i stop for one year. Then went back to the sin. When i turned 32, one day i was (High balling coke and crank that means i was mixing then together). It push me into a massive heart attack they took me to the hospital. I was in intensive care. They called all my family the didn't think i was going to make it through the night. I was so scared. I remembered from my childhood years from being in church i knew if i died in my sin i would end up in (Hell). Then and there i called out to Jesus to please help me and don't let me die. Three days later i was released from the hospital. One of my friends had gave his life to Jesus Christ and had invited me to church years ago. So i called him and met him at church. I gave my life to Jesus Christ that day.That was 19 years ago. That was when i found out that (God) was real he was the only one that could change my life. And set me free from all my (Sin). It has not always been easy.But it is so worth it. God has bless me with a beautiful wife and four beautiful children. And we all love Jesus Christ and thank him for our (Salvation).<<>> I hope this will help someone......................

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........... ok do you understand that, I guess not. You can build a religion based on falsehood at any time in history you want. "Men and books lie, Nature does not." I am a child of Mother Earth and she teaches all I need to know. I don't need a book from an old man in a cave to tell me which way the wind blows. There is no conflict in my life I know who and what I am. My work with Multiple Sclerosis is my strength. People with MS keep walking in to my life from everywhere, I help them deal with their diagnosis. I try to show them their life is not over there can still be joy and fun in their life. The situation created the purpose if just chose to stepped in.

I didn't make up my religion I was called to it. It was there all the time on the library shelf. Many of us are called and we eventual find each other. We try to learn from what has been left behind by the ancestors, we learn from each other and most of all we learn from the Earth and the Universe.

Very well put, We do learn from the past and things that have occured in the past . Religion or not this will always remain true, Each generation learns more than the last one and so we continue to learn, Always a pleasure

I'm happy that you got your life back on track dude. A truely inspiring story.

(This isn't just directed at you but at Ozi and Genocyde too) You say you were called to your religion. Well many other religious people in this forum would be able to say the same thing. In which case it leads me to wondering that a religion isn't based on truth as much as it is on personal satisfaction of what you are worshipping or of what you acknowledge as a greater power. Everyone of you are content and happy of what they believe in and all have happy fullfilling lives I'm sure. There aren't any outside entities punishing you for worshipping another God/s relative to your religion (as is seen in the Bible ie the great flood, one of the ten commandments, "Do not have any other gods before Me." etc.) You all experienced different or slightly different paths to one another that led you to your firm beliefs in your religion and I believe that each of your believes has just as much self justification as the other. I think that within each of us there is some deep inner seat of happiness and purpose that needs to be filled and we all have different ways of doing it.

Just on the concept of God/s afterlife and such I believe, due to some of my scientific knowledge that an alternate reality of existence wouldn't perfectly mesh with this reality's laws for existence in anyway. It is impossible to fully prove any one religion. Say you have two universes, in the one there's a law that states that 2+2 = 3. In this one there's a law that states that 2+2 = 4. Each universe is false relative to the other universe's laws however each universe is still true relative to itself. In my opinion there is no "perfect all-mighty truth" looking at things from this univere's perspective because the differences of an alternate reality of existence would be too vast to perfectly cross-reference to form's of existence like this. This leaves us only with infinite/near infinite possibility in which case I believe that each of you are just as correct as the other in your beliefs.

[quote name='Darkwind' post='2078393' date='Jan 5 2008, 10:00 PM']We have such conflict, because ................................................................................
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........... ok do you understand that, I guess not. You can build a religion based on falsehood at any time in history you want. "Men and books lie, Nature does not." I am a child of Mother Earth and she teaches all I need to know. I don't need a book from an old man in a cave to tell me which way the wind blows. There is no conflict in my life I know who and what I am. My work with Multiple Sclerosis is my strength. People with MS keep walking in to my life from everywhere, I help them deal with their diagnosis. I try to show them their life is not over there can still be joy and fun in their life. The situation created the purpose if just chose to stepped in.

I didn't make up my religion I was called to it. It was there all the time on the library shelf. Many of us are called and we eventual find each other. We try to learn from what has been left behind by the ancestors, we learn from each other and most of all we learn from the Earth and the Universe.[......................................................................
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........................................................... Darkwind<<>>I wish you the best in your(Religion). Just try to be a little nicer to the Christian. Thank you, Joeycastaneda56

Joey, the [/quote] but goes before you make your post, you click reply and then just post to the bottom of that, leave everything as is.

Interesting that people say they were "called to it"

I've never felt that way... I was already confident with what I assumed was God and now know it is.

I called it, it didn't call me.

How odd.

I had been in an abusive marriage for years. I finally threw him out but I was stuck in a trailer in the middle of the country with two small children no job no money and no food. I was scared. I had wonderful Christian parents but they had moved far away and I really didn't want to leave my home.
I remember crying out to God , giving my life to him. I had always believed but it was the trusting him with my life that changed it.
I told him that I gave up trying to run my life that I was giving it to him to do whatever he wanted to do with it.
That was the best thing I ever did.
I did end up moving in with my parents. With in days they had moved me out of that situation. Within a week I had gotten a job at a hair salon.
With in six months I was manager of the salon. With in a year I opened my own salon with no credit and no money just faith.
I have had a very successful business for the past 17 years....Oh yes, Within that first year God sent me the most perfect husband.
I didn't know guys like this existed ......We just celebrated our 11th anniversary. God is good.......
I am still stubborn sometimes and want to do things my way, but whatever aspect of my life that I give up to him works out so much better...

Believe me, I've been there and I know that, if you're a spiritually oriented person, it feels horrible. When I went through that period in my life I read a lot of existentialist literature. I was never really an existentialist, but it helped to know that I wasn't the only person in the world staring into that void.



Ozi, your post really moved me for some reason. Thanks.


I have unconventional religious beliefs that are somewhat similar to the Gaia Hypothesis and the new earth-oriented, ecology-oriented religion. I feel like I was born with these beliefs hard wired into my brain. I knew that I had that hard wiring but I couldn't... "activate it" alone. My family are Fundie Christians so they had extremely well defined beliefs and couldn't figure out what was wrong with me. When I was around 10 I used to try to have philosophical conversations with my parents but these inevitably ended with my mother telling me I was going to hell, so I dropped the subject.

When I got out of school I did a lot of traveling (Africa, Asia, South America) and it was comforting to see that other people made sense of the universe with other religious structures.

Then there was one day when I was browsing in a bookstore and I came across some Gaian spiritual ecology stuff. I still remember the feeling. It was like suddenly realizing I wasn't alone after having been so lonely. It was also like a piece of a puzzle falling into place so suddenly the world came into focus. I noticed that the room seemed to be getting lighter and I realized that my eyes were dilating because I was wanted to gobble the whole book up at once.

Have you ever seen the movie "The Razor's Edge" (the modern version not the 1930's version)? It's about a guy seeking meaning in life after having horrible experiences in World War I. It's very, very corny but for me the worst thing about "looking into the void" was the emptiness and loneliness. Reading and watching movies about other people seeking gave me hope.

Ok lets see then, you say you learnt everything from mother earth, how did she teach you, or was it your parents, and then when you were at an age of understanding, you decided to seek what the truth maybe, im guessin. Anyway you decided that mother earth taught you everything, you say the purpose so to speak is to enjoy life, what you dont realise, that a basic funtion of life, its not the sole purpose, that part of life will come and go, that is life, hard time and bad times, what does mother earth teach you to deal with them. And what has she taught you about your purpose, does mother earth have a concious, if so, how and what verfiyable proof or testable means do you have. You see most people have this misconception that religion is built on faith only, and not truth or proof, i disagree, i think if you cant prove or verify what you believe is the truth, then you folllow conjecture and speculation, not fact. You say we try and learn from our ancestors, well what if they wrong, is there no possiblity they were wrong, what if your parents were wrong about their beliefs and if you follow your ancestors, you can easily make a mistake, cause they were human and could have made mistakes too. You say we learn from earth and universe, we do, how, by science mainly, testable means, verifying the truth. the truth you can claim to have is that the earth exists and the universe and so do we, you truth does not go beyond this, you cant verify that mother earth teaches you anything or the universe. When in school who taught you, was it the earth or a human, it was the latter, when god teaches us, he sends men, poeple we recognise as the same as us, he does not send a cow to do a mans job.

As for conflict, you dint understand, if men have always believed in more than one god, then when it came to organised polythiestic religions, why is there one supreme god, because that was the one they started with, if not, then through conflict and disagreement, you would have plural number of gods, just as supreme.



You said you know who you are......well then i ask you "who are you". It will really interesting when you answer this.


PIESEEKER...

you said that there are infinite possibilities, with out going to technical, the parrallel universes is still theory. Very rarely will you find any religion which has claims that it can prove to be of divine origin, not only that it gives you hundreds of falsification tests, a scientific priniciple to estbalish and verify something to be fact. As for the ultimate truth, it can only be one, lies can be many, but the truth remains the truth and remains as one, you dont get more than one truth, i know we can get philisophical about it, hence why i refer to the ultimate truth, because even they aknolwedge that is one, but philisophy has its faults, i mean you cant even prove our own existence according to philisophy. We are different, we dont live lifes differently really, we all eat sleep and die, we all have work , social activites etc, all these things are simple parts of life, it is life, its how it is lived, and they are funtions of life. But a purpose is something different, you see a shoe, can be used for various things, and terrains, or activity, their its funtions, but its purpose is to protect our feet and aid us. and this will remain its purpose, are we so worthless, that even a shoe has a purpose, but we dont, we are almost alien in the universe then, because everything around us has a purpose, so must we. The quest should be to find out what that is.

Alternative realities, are unkown i agree, but i base my certain belief in alternate realites, such as heaven and hell, purely on the source which provided the information, it was revealed to a man in a cave, but the words were of God, and if i was christian and i said this, you would say prove it, and as a christian i would say i cant, its all about faith, this does not just apply for christianity, this would apply to all religions, but in Islam we have the quran, you can verify it with , reasoning, logic and science and maths etc. Infact its only book which i came across in my studying, that questioned me, and asked me if i have doubt, go find out from those who are experts in their fields, so for example, in the quran 1400 years ago, it refers to creation of the universe, and it refers to it as the big bang, or another example which is even more recent scientific discovery, black holes, the quran refers to them, you simply, get loads of things like this, then you apply probability, in muhammed getting these facts right, for example, the quran refer to the moons light as reflected light, the odds of gettting this right would 2 in 1 and the same verse, it may refer to another phenomena, and the odds of that being right would be 1 in 10 lets say, so you keep applying this, and adding the odds, and the number of things the quran has got right is huge, and the probability that muhammed got them right by chance is mathamatically impossible, so the only possibilibty is that its divine knowledge. This is just one of the falsification tests, there are loads of ways to try and prove this book wrong, and it asks you and challenges you to do this, now do you understand that its not arrogance that makes me believe its the truth, its confidence and certainity, cause its verifiable and testable proof. Its poses a challenge to mankind and everything in the universe, this challenge with out going into too much details has never been met in 1400 yrs or more.

An alternate reality is true, based on my above points and the source for it, as for alternate realities in scientific theory, you may have a parallel universe, inches away from you, alternate realities would be possible, if matter had no real physical side to it, and if matter was merely perception that we perceive then its true nature would be unknown and we could be sunject to alternate perceptions too, and science is close to proving or has proven that matter is merely perception.

Sorry I shortened it for Length.


You said you know who you are......well then i ask you "who are you". It will really interesting when you answer this.

Iam that Iam, and you are that you are.

Sometimes when you look at a beautiful sunset, some may see am atomoc explosion Light years away, and need to prove how it works, I say It is beautiful and Give thanks for the warmth, I need no proof, for my beliefs , However you may need proof To believe what I believe, simply because t is Mine and Not yours.

Stay true to your self and your beliefs , what ever they may be. THey may change, or be diferent than someone elses , and that's ok, Thats why they are yours.

Love Omnaka

..........Darkwind<<>>I wish you the best in you(Religion). Just be a little nicer to the Christian. Thank you, Joeycastaneda56............

As Long as he does not hurt that rock or You, God will know exactly why he chose to worship Mother earth.

Some have a Hard time loving and or worshiping an invisable God, thus they need something More tangable which they can see Such as Jesus , Abraham or what ever or who ever . Father knew it would be like this. Judging what others believe for the invisable Father of ones spirit Is a mute Point, If your belief in God includes making Others believe as you do, or scaring them in to belief, which in my book is not belief at all but only fear, then by all means procede. Father God will even understand that. But If you really want someone to believe in The God you do, then show the qualities which represent this God, Leading by example instead of words alone, one will have a better chance at Helping another in their search For the real God.

Many think God punishes us for not believing in him, I say God does not Mind and it is understandable. if one does not want to love God , that is their decision. If one does not Know what to believe It is understandable. 'Our Father who created Our spirit is not a petty god.

If you Fathered a son, who had never seen you in his life, and he did not know what to make of you not being around , or Even hated you for this, would you hate him Back, or would it be understandable, and you would still love him?????

Love Omnaka

I wasn't going to say anything in this thread, until I read this. That is absolutely the most ignorant thing I have read on this forum. Are you serious?

Edited to add:

Awesome story. One of my classmates decided to do an experiment. He set up a shrine to a coca cola poster, and every single day prayed to this poster. For months. He would pray for the weather to be good, to pass tests, for a girl to go out with him etc, and eventually, a few of the things he prayed for started to happen. He actually started to convince himself that the coca cola poster potentially had magic, miracle causing powers... and then remembered it was just a coca cola poster. It can't control the weather, he passed his tests because he studied, and the girl he liked went out with him because she liked him back...not because of his poster. He made things happen on his own, he just had the faith in his poster to back him up haha

I agree tralalala.... I was horrified, especially for this section of the site and the nature of this thread, it's wholly inappropriate. I reported it, but I guess the mods decided it was ok.

joeycastaneda56 belittling another member's beliefs is inapropriate, if you are so insecure with your own beliefs and religion then maybe you should have a good, hard and long look at yourself and what you believe in. This is a warning not only to joey but to all, you are all entitled to your own beliefs, opinions and idea's and are free to expres them, but should you attack another simplly for having a differing belief, you may be subject to moderator action.

Thank you AztecInca, very much.

You make a good post. Its difficult for the confused (referring to myself) to determine which religion is the "true one." I would find it extremely unfair if I ended up burning in hell simply because I didn't recognise "truth" as others do.

When you gave your life up to God did you feel refreshed and ready for a new life even before your life started changing?