OK, obviously all of the people who subscribe to a religion think that religion can be positive, otherwise, why would they be a part of it?

So this question is for the Atheists; do you think there are any situations where religion is a positive thing, or are there so many negatives that they outweigh the positives?


I know religion can cause a lot of negative things (war, hate crimes, Jessica Simpson, etc), but I've met a few people where I genuinely think if the bible wasn't telling them not to, they would go all sorts of crazy and kill anyone that accidently bumped into them on the street. I think that for the most part, religions give people without an inner moral code, a moral guide for their lives. I know it also helps a lot of people cope with losing friends/family members, or just any hard things in their life (coping with addiction, cheating spouses, etc). I think the world would probably be a worse place if there were no religions, even if I don't subscribe to one.

Yes I think it can. I'm jealous sometimes.

Yes you know that I will say religion is goodBut my question is why is jessica simpson a negitive thing? I have always seen her to be a good role model and a sweet girl. I know you never can tell with celebrities but I find her to be genuine, Always a pleasure

haha I just hate her with an undying passion. She's one of the few celebrities that I just absolutely can not stand, she annoys the crap out of me. I know a few people who have worked on sets with her (one as a production assistant, a few in the lighting department) who have said she's just absolutely horrible to work with, is stuck up, and just super whiny. I agree that she used to be a good role model (a lot of my friends looked up to her in elementary school, she was one of the few celebrities who seemed genuine), but she seems to be one of the people I had mentioned in another thread. She's Christian when it's convinient for her, but when it's inconvinient, all of her morals go out the window. /end rant

haha if you want to talk about her further, pm me

The worst part of western culture is our utter fixation with untalented celeberties...

Relegion can be a positive thing if people can keep it to themselves and keep an open mind...

Faith can do alot of good, but usually it gets out of hand..

They would be part of it to avoid ethernal suffering, being outcasted from their family, to avoid getting killed (Still applies to some areas of the world) want me to go on?

Religion is often fed by fear of what happens in life and more importantly for religious people after death and the charm is noone can deny the religion is not right about what happens after death from obvious reasons.

With that said obviously religion can also be a positive thing but its in no way the only reason why people deside to follow it come on now

Off the top of my head I can't think of anything exclusively positive to religion only. Anything positive religion does it can and is being done without it.

People develope and have moral codes and ethics without religion.

Good alternative reasons for believing or at least pretending ti believe.

The final threat of eternal hell after death ususally does it for most I reckon. It's the big persuader that one. The Abrahmic faiths are built upon a threat of hideous torture for non-belief. I can;t have any espect for a religion that has that as a core concept. It cancels out all the nice messages somewhat. "Believe and ye shall be saved and live forever. Question god and Jesus, dare to disbelieve and ETERNAL HELL awaits!"

No respect.

It seems to assist some gentlemen in jail. Gives them a philosophical/meditative framework that may otherwise have been lacking in their life.

Religion can be a postive or a negtive I think it depends on the person using it.

I am rather suspicious of people that suddenly find God when the are imprisoned ,I think they are thinking that it improves their chances with the parole board


fullywired

I dont actually think thats true. I think religion just beats it into your head that without obeying your scripture you'd be a beast with no morals. Thats completely false, and it is deeply offensive, it suggests that we have no personal integrity and ethics. The fact is, all the great apes are social animals, we evolved our moral compass before we even
walked upright, talked or asked "why are we here?". Just because some people put it in writing doesn't mean they came up with it.

Of course, there's no denying the huge influence religion has had over music, some of my favourite musicians were religious or inspired by religion, such as Al Green, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, Johnny Cash, Bob Dylan and Bob Marley. We probably wouldn't have Soul music if not for the gospel choirs which trained singers like Aretha Franklin, so you can always look back on the positive effects.




I agree 100%.

Our God is a God of love not hate. He shows us in the bible that there is a way for us to all live in happyness with peace and freedom. (Excuse me if I sound like a hippy lol)

It is people that choose not to follow and that is why this world is full of evil and negativity. Man is the cause of his own suffering not God. Please realise this and also that it is people that go to war with the intent of killing each other not God.

I think that if you actually looked at the mechanics of the society put forward by the bible you would realise it works.

My beliefs on homosexuality are that people can only fall so far into negativity before they cross a line from which they can't return. Homosexuals have crossed that line as have suiciders so their negativity would mean they would never be able to live in such a society.

So God offers us a way to live in happiness and peace and freedom but no Gays allowed.

Your God is not that great then is he if he discriminates against people who are not hurting anyone.

I think If religion helps one to be a better person and love thy neighbor Regardless of his race creed Religion or Sexual preferance, Basically unconditionaly, Then it is a good thing.

If it helps one to judge his brother On any of those things listed above, Then I believe it is a bad thing . ( My opinion). If you think Homosexuals are Bad , and those who Do not subscribe to religion, Yours or others, Then you are judging Gods child for God, does your religion teach you to do that?

God does not hate or dislike homosexuals , God loves all Gods children unconditionally. How do you suppose you will feel After this life when you find this out? I know many Athiests and agnostics and Pagans.
They are not Bad people, and Many of them do believe in God , But just dont want to be afiliated with your brand of bigotry, and judgement.

Agnostics are some of Heavenly Fathers favorit children, They are not sure , so they don't go around Judging For God, by Scripture that they might have translated wrong, or Build a pulpit out of scripyure To judge his brother by.

Suicide Is a sad thing In My eyes, not a bad thing. It says the one , doing it, is in Pain and Needs your Love Not your bigoted Hate and judgement, then you have the nerve to Tack Gods name on the end , Like it is something God wanted you to do.

Maybe if you had shown the brother some compassion and Godly love, Not Judgement, but The love God shared with you, Maybe He would not Have killed himself. But you judged him unworthy Of God, made him Feel bad , Maybe you are the reason He commited suicide, Judge Not my bro, for you know not The sufferage Any brother has endured, and to wish another to hell When you know not God's love Is a self riteous sin. Or judge another to hell for God. this judgement will be turned around, and you will feel The same Judgement you dished, . God won't do it either, you will do it to your self out of remorse for how you have treated your eternal brother, who your God said to love.

But it is your belief, I feel sorry for you.

Love Omnaka

I'm sure religion gives comfort to some and helps them deal with difficult situations. I can't say if they couldn't have done without, but my guess is that they could have found comfort elsewhere. Overall I see religion as very negative. It makes people believe that they have some kind of moral high-ground like atom286's comment about homosexuality. It gives people another reason to kill each other "my god can beat your god". And then there's the thing that a lot of religious people think taking things on faith is a good thing, as long as it's the things in their religions that have no evidence (everything). They get the idea that it's okay to think you can make up alternative theories, without having ever read anything about the subject, to things scientists spend all their lives on and have to provide evidence for and such.

So no I don't think religion can be a positive thing.

Even though I'm agnostic/athiest(I accept there could be a god; just I think it is rather silly that everyone thinks they understand all about him worshipping 2,000+ year old books), I don't think religion could be a good thing; I KNOW religion could be a good thing.

In today's society, we see a whole lot of bad things coming from religion; Wars, Suicide bombings, forced religion, pressure to teach religion in schools(Creationism), religious propaganda to distroy scientists/science, religion used as a means to get into office, religion used as a means to take away rights(Gay/Lesbian rights), War, religion advocating predujuice against other
races/backgrounds/sexes, parents letting their kids die because of their religion(150+ cases of parents praying instead of getting a doctor when their kid is very ill in the last 10 years), sublimal religious propaganda forced on kids/everyone, religion creating misunderstanding of science/other religions, and much, much more.

I mean, we see all these nutjobs(like Bill O'Reilly) who think they are following their religion by trying to force it on others, hate other religions/people, go to war in Iraq, and much, much more. Then we think all Religious people are nutjobs like that.

However, if you have ever been part of a small church, or been close to someone in a monastery, then you know the good side of religion. Unlike most slimey religious politicians(cough Huckabee), many monks, some priests/pastors, and devout religious people actually get the RIGHT side of their religion, the part about not killing people and being friendly and loving.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that even though religion does all this bad awful stuff, there are a few very devout people out there that really have benefited from religion.(People like Mother Teresa), and I don't see how anyone could deny that.

Doesn't sound like Mother Teresa benefited from religion. She was apparently struggling and although she did good things she had some twisted beliefs too. Abortion being the cause of wars or something to that nature. I'd rather people were good of their own accord and not because they think some book tells them to be.

Religion can be either helpful or hurtful. It really depends on the motives of those involved.

haha jessica simpson. i think peoples problem with her is she pretends to be stupid, she's really not stupid but for some reason she want's people to think she is. that's why people don't like her as a role model, they don't want their kids to think it's okay to walk around acting stupid for no damn reason.......uuuhh is tuna chicken??

anyway i'm not atheist but i think religion can be extremly possitive. atheist can say oh it's for people with weak minds and people who are brain washed i don't need religion, but lots of people do. just because an atheist doesn't need it don't mean somebody else doesn't. it's stops lots of people from going crazy and becoming depressed, or doing drugs or hurting people. you can say religion is responsible for the deaths of many people, it's true. but no religion would be responsible for the deaths of way more.

So then those people would be weak minded if they need a religion to stop themselves from hurting people and doing drugs.

As for being depressed I can see how religion might help there.





How do you work that out.

I can very much relate and feel with ya there..........


Hate is a too strong a word> but she is one of those people that I would tear my left arm out just so I could hit her over the head with it a couple of times Knock some sense into that container of air.

So what, she's a bonehead, no biggie. Now she is seriously TRYING to say things that make people say "She's so dumb!" She's even doing commercials that reiterate that she is dumb.

Alright! Enough already! We know your'e not that bright Jessica Wabbit , but quit shoving it down our throats, and quit pretending to be dumber then you are!

She should remember that she is a role model for young girls and that playing the bimbo is uncool. We have enough of them ,like Brittney, Paris etc.


I like Norah Jones.good girl

got to have something, thats what i always say

I'd like an order of love,truth,humor & wisdom please. Hold the fries ....erm I mean lies, thanks.

Most religions have good aspects. It is just that man has twisted the original message all to crap. But, mostly I think that it is a crutch. There are so many people who are terrified of death, that when the end comes, they are all of a sudden devout Christians. I have seen it over and over again. We all will die, that is a given, and IF there is a God, do you really think he/she is stupid enough to look at all the backstabbing and righteous people who go to church and then give into sin every other day of the week? I see so many hypocrites that it really turns me so far away from any structured religion. There are a lot of people fooling themselves because your sins cannot just be washed away, they are embedded into your soul, and if there is a judgment, they are all there to be seen.

but why would it matter if they are weak minded and insecure? if religion is stopping them from hurting themselfs and other people that's all that counts. weather people think god is real or not god helps people with their lifes.

Sure religion is positive, whether aitheists like it or not, most of the civilised world and its laws are based on sound foundation of religious commands and laws. The ten commandments etc. Also religion or the lack of it in society results in a broken society, broken families, prostitution, drugs, rape, crime and general devolution of society. You see religion provides a moral filtering system in society, it keeps things and people in check, and tries to benefit society as whole, rather than looking at individualism.

Humans have created religion. We create them so they fit to the morals that exist in the society where it was created and then it evolves along with society although there are some who fight desperately to keep it stagnant. Religion is just a way to dress up morals in stories and whereas some might need the stories others realize that there are still morals without religion.

Some people just need the fear of god to be good people. Rather sad but if it keeps them behaving socially well ?.

Other people need that kick, high> that is spiritual or religious ecstacy. I say better than chemical self-medication.

There are others that suffer from depression and a sense of hopelessness, again better than chemicals /suicide although sometimes therapy may be helpful instead.

Mental health care, and drug rehab programs are in short supply in the U..S. or at least unaffordable for very many.

In the U.S. god & church are the cheaper & more accessible option.

So what are the implications of this ? Possibly a high population of believers/god's flock.

Yeh so how did we ge the foundation of our laws to be the ten commandments, how is man naturally as a whole agrees to them, mainly because they hold a faith in a higher power and follow a way of living, their religion is criterion to live their life in a certain way, look at england or the US, even though, The Us is majority christian, they still have a social breakdown of morality and ethics, murder rate is the highest in the world, rape, crime, etc, people dont hold much moral values in the US as whole, but if they stuck to their christian principles, then surely you would have less of the ills we have in society today. Look at england, where i live, teen mothers, rape, peadophilia, crime, murder, prositution, break down of the family nucleus, this is all because they dont have religious values as a whole which would act as morality filters and thus, reduce the ills in society as poeple would live better lives.

You say religion has been created by man, some have i agree, but some were divine, and then changed and tampered with by men and some remain to be divine, well one does in my opinion.

If religion was created by man to dress up morals, why, why could they not do it any other way.

If you're good because you fear retribution and expect reward, how genuine can your acts be considered, really? I really dont buy into that excuse. People are going to be good provided they have a good upbringing, regardless of family structure and religion.

You can find that high anywhere, in art and nature, neither of which are the work of God.

Scandinavia has the most Atheists, Agnostics and they have the lowest rate of social ills.

But is mainly do to their excellent education, a great social system, good economy and clear defined moral values, which is possible without the use of religion. Parenting with love & logic & an uncorrupt political system that serves it's citizens as best they can is the key.

An unresponsive government>poor educational standards>unnraelistic expectations> that cause broken dreams>poor socio-economic opportunities> desperation> and a dysfunctional family life cause the moral breakdown and social ills in a society> not religion (unless the religion supresses personal freedoms & scientific evidence/studies,and strongly influences politics) as long as states stay secular and allow freedom of and from religion then it's ok

i've seen you say stuff like this numerious times cradle of fish. but i ask, does it matter it ones acts of kindness are genuine? that may seem like a strange thing to say but let me explain. lets say you're lost out in the middle of nowhere, you're hungry, you're thirsty, you're about to die. somebody then finds you. does it really matter to you if that person is going to give you food and water because god said they should or they are just doing it because they said they should? i don't think anybody would care. i wouldn't. i'd be like hey man you're helping me because god said you should i don't care get me some crackers and water i'm dieing here. so somebody saves your life who happens to do it to please god.....does it matter, you're still alive. will you be less grateful?

Someone answered the other part of your post so I'll take this.

They could have done it another way but they didn't. Stories are a powerful way to tell people about the morals of society, you see morals in every book written today. To tell someone that killing is wrong isn't going to make a strong impression but give them a story that appeals to emotions and you have a bigger chance of getting them into people. The stories vary from religion to religion but some of the morals are the same. The emotions they appeal to are different. Love, fear, hate.. If you believe hell is a real place then I'm sure that could be a very emotional motivator to keep to the morals of the story.

While I understand the point that you are making,I don't know about you , but I'd like to live in a world of genuine caring & warmth.(psst ...I even think god may appreciate this idea because I think/hope that he cares more that we love each other)

Not phoniness,spawned by fear and obligation. Otherwise it's like being in a marriage/ family that doesn't really care or love you.

Now how cool & fullfilling is that ?

I think we can only be our best if we are nourished with true caring and love, we all need it

yeah i agree with everything you said. but if something happens to any of us and we need help there isn't one of us that is going to appreciate somebodys help less because they did it for god.

Very Cool.

Love Omnaka

Hey I never said I didn't appreciate help god or not -some help is better than no help

Actually thats a good example of when it doesn't matter, but there are plenty of examples where it would matter. When it comes to saving a life, most people are probably going to do it out of basic empathy. Obeying your commandments is easy, watching someone die in the desert is much much harder, it would take alot of will power not to do it, but your personal justification doesn't really matter.

But what about general acts of kindness? Most people are decent, sure, they'd be decent with or without religion. But those people who do good just because their book tells them to do it, don't you think God would see through that?

Personally I'm not fond of people who do good things solely to get things in return.

The only religions I hate are ones that have at any point in their history have promoted the conversion of others(not in a "sure you can join us way", but in a "convert or die way"). Also any religions that have laws that extend either directly or indirectly to non-believers.

The only way a religion can be a positive thing in my eyes is if it is completely voluntary in all ways(including the shunning upon of those who try to actively convert), the religion itself must be treated like any other organization(no tax exemption status) and the laws that followers must obey don't in any way affect a non-believer.

The "laws" of my church were instrumental in creating the laws and freedoms you now enjoy in many western nations. Including the right for women to vote, abolution, fair prices for goods, equality laws for all people, and a few others. Quakers had those laws in their religion long before they influenced others to take up the same laws. That's just history.

Gotta be careful about how you think about that one.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you either... separation of church and state is extremely important and necessary, however, there's no question that the influence of some churches has been a good thing at times.

In fact, I'll even add this... the influence of some of the pagan faiths has been good too in respect to environmental and animal rights issues.

I don't believe that any religion created laws that common sense and a descent moral standing couldn't replicate. And in some religions women are treated very unfairly.

I agree... All I wanted to point out was that you have to be very careful about how you present your arguments in topics like this.

We dont't know what would have happened if certain faiths hadn't influenced Western ideas on equality, slavery, environment, animal rights, and equal rights. I'm sure people would have come around eventually. What I'm saying, is that there are a couple of religions whose idea and religious "laws" did seep into secular law and it was good.

So never say never.

faith can have a good babysitting type effect for those of us who might be met with nothing but emotional turmoil if able to comprehend the elegance, fulfillment and earthy bond of the beautiful yet unforgiving naturalistic outlook of our existence.

Unfortunately, these people outnumber the latter.

Your in dream land, they still have high rates of crime, rape, theft prositution etc, this are ills of society that break it down and the family nucleus is what keeps society together, the lack of religion is the absence of a morality filter, thus moral and ethics become blurred. Another example for you, Sweden is the most liberal country, its very relaxed on its laws etc. Yet it has the highest number of young people commiting suicide, these young men and women have enough freedom, more than they need, have all they want, yet feel emptiness, that they take their own life.

Fair enough, but all my arguments and comments about religion will almost always be in a negative viewpoint just because I don't like any of the ones around me. I won't deny that even though any laws COULD have been created without religion, since it is so popular most are based off of such backgrounds.

thats not good enough im afraid, if i told you dont kill someone, its wrong. with out putting a story to it, then you would still understand this, because you would know what it means to kill, if the latter was an unkown then the story thing may make sense. If i told you dont kill anyone, if you do, you die too. This would be just as effective, so why use stories. Most poeple believe in religion based on faith, blind faith, but it ought be based on reasoning, logic, and science, which are means to verify the truth. Therefore faith should be based on truth and not conjecture.

Your assumption on that religions are spread by the sword, makes me assume you are in the main refering to christianity and ISLAM. if its the latter your in fantasy world and believe everythign you read or see on TV.

I saw this thread and it made me think of a buddy of mine. As some of you know, I'm probably best defined as Athiest. I don't find value in most religions for myself, BUT I see how people do.

I think everyone needs a different framework to their life, and some find comfort in religious beliefs. For some people, religion proves to be extremely beneficial in moral guidance and other areas. Others feel it is unnecessary. It basically comes down to the individual, and for that reason I refuse to paint a religion bad or wrong. I may disagree with some principles that certain religions enforce, but that's not to say the religion is bad and anyone who follows it is a bad person.

A good friend of mine has been mixed up in drugs and drug dealing for a dominating period of his life. Everytime things were okay, "trouble would find him." I say that in quotes because every decision he made put him exactly in the spot that he ended up. Every consequence was in one way or another a result of his actions. This is something he will never admit, as he's one of those people that immediately diverts blame for everything that happens. I actually think he does it without even putting thought into it anymore. As a result, he'll look to every possible thing that played into getting him in a sticky situation, except for the obvious. The obvious being his intial actions/intentions.

Recently, he has claimed to have found Jesus through a series of events during a very vulnerable time for him. I wonder if this faith is truely inset within him or if this is one of his flings that seem to evaporate as quickly as they come about. Then again, this hasn't just started and he stopped using and selling drugs monthes ago. He used to speak about religion and his new found faith all the time, but now it's almost like he's embarrassed to bring it up if others are around.

Nonetheless, religion has strongly influenced his life and inspired positive change. I see religion's purpose in life. To give purpose to those who have lost their own.... or haven't had a chance to find their own yet. Sometimes, those who have found their own keep their adopted purpose and use it as a moral guideline. And yet for others, religion simply is their purpose... it's just a natural part of them.

To summarize my answer to the OP; religion is simply potential. It has the potential to be what you make it, whether that is good or bad is ultimately up to the one practicing it, nobody else.

So whats your purpose.