Obviously as a christian I worship God and enjoy"preaching" but have had to let up so I would not offend or disrespect someones beliefs. Now I am preaching I want to know what is so terriable about believeing in God, God who created the heavens and the earth and man and women and everything in between. You have to understand that if your not with God you are against God and that will bring very dire consequences. What is worth your eternal soul, What is it worth to you to ensure that your soul lives in paradise instead of Enduring incredible amounts of pain and agony? Won't you give your soul a chance. I respect everyones beliefs or lack of , But if you think really think about , What if all this is true and I give up my chance? What if you try and do not like what you find? Well then you haven't lost anything by keeping an open mind. On the other hand You could find what you have always been looking for. I hope I can do right by God I do try, But one never really knows if they are doing what God intended them to. I worry about my soul and pray I have eternal life in paradise as I have very very low tolerence for pain. If you do not wish to question your own choices then I respect that and apoligize if you took any offense to my posts. I sincerly don't care to disrespect anyone or their beliefs, Always a pleasure
NOTE PLEASE, That I am not pushing my faith onto anyone, If you choose to participate in this topic it is because you yourself chose too and not because I have ''PUSHED IT ONTO YOU''. I fully understand and am very very aware that my beliefs are not the only ones there is, I accept this. Also I am NOT "CONDEMNING ANYONE TO HELL" I would never do that I am simply stating what the bible says will happen to the condemned! And I know the bible is not seen as fact, So if you choose to post here please keep these things in mind. I welcome every post I can, But I am not pushing anything on you. Always a pleasure

There is nothing terrible in believing in God. if it helps you, it's a good thing.

There is a problem in assuming that anyone who doesn't believe in god is being closed minded. I'm very open to the possibility of being wrong. If there's is a god, and that's proven to me, I'll be the first person to admit my mistake. I think if there is a god, he knows that it took me a long time to come to my decision that he doesn't exist, and he would understand my reasons.

Would you open your mind to the possibility that god doesn't exist?

First, there is nothing bad about believing in God. It's just that people need proof before they go following something. A lot of people don't want to just blindly follow something. There are people out there who don't believe that God created us, the earth, etc. It's kind of hard to tell people to pray to something when you can't really prove that it exists or even if its teachings are right.

Secondly, you are asking about what if this is all true. Well, there are other religions that don't believe in heaven/hell or they don't believe in just one God. In saying that what you believe in is true, you are alienating them and also claiming that their beliefs are wrong. Also, what if they are right and you are wrong? Or what if the Atheists are wrong and there is no God at all? Someone with different beliefs could argue the other way and say "Why don't you try praying to my God and see if that works for you?"

There are a myriad of beliefs....by what you say you should be trying them all just in case they are true. Do you delve into every religion and act in accordance with its laws 'just in case'?

But I have always thought the more interesting question is why believers act so immorally - eternal damnation surely isn't worth 90 years of pleasures for the flesh.

I do try my best to keep an open mind and I understand that some people want proof. I don't think that proof will come in time sadly though.I have said this before, But I never even relized that people even questioned God in any way. I assumed it was just something everyone knew, That God does exsist. I know I was in a fairy world, But that just tells you how much faith I have. I had some difficulties a while back, I was begining to question God, From the forums here my thoughts were these skeptics do raise some questions that seem to be valid. I almost left the forum because I thought I was letting God and my faith down by asking questions. So yes I do my best to keep an open mind just as I ask of you to do here. Will my post change someones beliefs I seriously doubt it , But if I can create a little doubt and let that person do what they will with it then I am ok with that. Always a pleasure

There is nothing wrong with stating your love for God, even if you think He is Brother Jesus, but when you start putting conditions on God's love Twards God's children, This kind of conditional love does not sit right with Many, THey know it in their heart. The love we ,, Or Most practice down here is with condition, so You think Gods love must be the same way, This just does not sit well in many's Heart, because God does not love the way we do, no need to place conditions on it, because God needs nothing From us, but God would gladly accept your or any of God's childrens Love .

Do you Believe God said JUdge Not , lest ye be Judged?

Maybe You already think you are going to be Judged By God , Instead of your own consciousness judging self, So you will get the jump on God and judge others before you are juged, Thinking < maybe that meant I will be Judged By the one Iam Judging, Nope, God does not Judge you , Man cant judge You, Only your own spirit heart can judge You. Who else knows you well enough to judge you. Please Don't say God, Then God has to bre judged by someone, He won't doit. Yes God adheres to Gods own laws, or sugestions.

Love Omnaka..

Ps if God wipes out a world except Noah, God can send their eternal spirit back, in another Body, If Man does it, (Kills) Can He bring Life Back, No because the body is mortal, and the spirit is eternal.

Love Omnaka

I wonder the same thing, Whats worth eternal pain and I wish I could ask "was it worth it? I can't think of anything thats worth an eternity of tourture. What could a person do or have or posess or want for that matter that will be worthy of a true God less place. Great question, Always a pleasure

Like others have said here you should be able to believe in whatever floats your boat as long as it does not disrespects others. Not everyone is easily offended but still everyone should make it a point to respect someone else’s ideas & thoughts on any topic. Me personally Sandee, your post comes across like you are believing in God out of fear & not love. To me that’s not a reason to worship anyone & your still telling us that we to should be scared of your God. Why would we worship someone like that? Again thee is nothing wrong with what you believe I’m happy for you & those people who have chosen to follow in the same path as you have. But that is why there are different faiths because one does not always work for everyone. I believe that you should be happy enough with your faith that you don't feel the overwhelming need to push it onto others.

See, I don't think that you're living in a "fairy world" or that you didn't know because of your faith, I think it's because of a lack of exposure to other belief systems. Which isn't your fault, people are a product of their upbringing. If you grew up somewhere where pretty much everyone was Christian, and didn't talk about other religions, of course you would be Christian and assume everyone else is too. It's good to ask questions about your faith. Some of the most devout christians I know became so because they researched other religions, weighed the pros and cons, and decided that Christianity is what worked for them. If God is real, I doubt he is tempermental enough to care that people want to make informed decisions.

edit: sorry, I put lack of faith...that was misworded haha, I fixed it

[quote name='Omnaka' date='Jan 8 2008, 01:04 AM' post='2082936']
There is nothing wrong with stating your love for God, even if you think He is Brother Jesus, but when you start putting conditions on God's love Twards God's children, This kind of conditional love does not sit right with Many, THey know it in their heart. The love we ,, Or Most practice down here is with condition, so You think Gods love must be the same way, This just does not sit well in many's Heart, because God does not love the way we do, no need to place conditions on it, because God needs nothing From us, but God would gladly accept your or any of God's childrens Love .

Do you Believe God said JUdge Not , lest ye be Judged?

Maybe You already think you are going to be Judged By God , Instead of your own consciousness judging self, So you will get the jump on God and judge others before you are juged, Thinking < maybe that meant I will be Judged By the one Iam Judging, Nope, God does not Judge you , Man cant judge You, Only your own spirit heart can judge You. Who else knows you well enough to judge you. Please Don't say God, Then God has to bre judged by someone, He won't doit. Yes God adheres to Gods own laws, or sugestions.

Love Omnaka..

Ps if God wipes out a world except Noah, God can send their eternal spirit back, in another Body, If Man does it, (Kills) Can He bring Life Back, No because the body is mortal, and the spirit is eternal.

Love Omnaka


[/quote

I know we have discussed this before and we agreed to disagree, God said he will judge us and To me god is the only true one and only judge. God will judge us and we will have to answer, No man is capable of judging man, only God has the right to judge us. I know you don't agree that God will have the judgement day as the bible says Omnaka , But I do respect your veiw , Always a pleasure

Ohhhh Norwood, Here we are again. I do fear God's punishment of man for not believing in him, But I do love God, Jesus too. I would say I worship out of love rather than fear but then thats just my assesment. I am happy in my faith and beliefs and I really am not "pushing" my belief, I hoped I made that clear in my post. I stated my belief and shared what I thought of it and I clearly leave the option to listen to me soley up to you. I really can't see where I have disrespected anyone as I try VERY hard not to do so. But if I have I assure you I did it blindly and did not intend to. I know you take a very dim veiw on anyone pushing their faith on someone else orwood and I thought about you when I posted this topic. I thought I would hear from you and I am glad I did, Its always a pleasure to hear what you have to say.

A couple of things:

1. You are making a huge assumption that you are praying to the right god. There are many belief systems out there; your is just one of them. I'd pay good money to see the look on your face on judgement day if you found out that the buddhists were actually correct, or the jews, or the muslims...It doesnt matter how right you think you might be, everyone else is entitled to their beliefs too...

2. I dont want to be a part of any religion that I have to be scared into following...throwing the eternal damnation card into peoples face gets old really fast...If you want to pull that trick we can take it one step farther and say that the jehovahas witnesses are right and there is only room for 144000 people in heaven, and grading on that scale, nobody here has any chance of getting in...

very well put

Sandee,
Do you not know your self well enough to judge yourself?

God siad Judge not lest ye Be judged, do you think God does not adhere to Gods own rule?

Would you wish this on God I tell nyou God won't do it God loves you, and He's Gonna say Well Sandee, With a very Father like soft voice , Packed with a lot Of amps, How do you think you did, And Your true spirit heart will answer with truth, You nmay not Know this yet, but it is how it's done, Wanting Father to judge you , Makes Him the bad guy should he find Fault in you,

Do you want Father to be the bad guy?

Love Omnaka

A person's faith is up to them to discover and pursue.

If someone is well suited by a religion's concepts; chances are that they will go to it.

No need to push it on others.

You feel that you are doing them a favor, but by thinking such, you are judging them as YOUR god supposedly wishes you not to.

Live and let live.

If your god is truth then he will be found.

I was really trying to be careful about "throwing the eternal damnation card" in. I do not want to come off as saying you are going to hell, Its not my place or right to condmemn anyone and I do not wish to. I also tried to say that everyones beliefs are very important to them and should not be disrespected by anyone, and I may have failed at that, and I apoligize. I do realize that my beliefs are not the only one there is, as you say every religion has their own beliefs and they differ. That does not make them wrong just different. I really hope that when judgement day does arrive that I have accomplished what I was suppossed to and that I can justify my actions the good and the bad, I would hope I am not the only one who thinks about this. I do agree that trying to recruit someone to God is not going to be very easy by using fear as the motivator, I do not like it when people do this as I said I will not condemn anyone to hell or insinuate so. If the only ones allowed in heaven are the 144,000 then Yes we have a serious problem in trying to get to heaven on those stats. I don't claim to know everything just my opinions as I have put here, I apoligize if they offend,Always a pleasure

Hi Sandee. I think I see what your getting at. Well I was raised Catholic...but I eventually left. I left because I didn't like the bible and all of man's intervention, I understand that it makes it easier so to speak for people to understand him. My beliefs have certain basic principles to them(ie. virtues), including God, but for me it's ever changing. I believe in God but I'm trying to sift through all of man's interpretations. Some things get lost in translation. If I'm wrong and God is upset with me and I lose my soul, well I'm content with that. No God or an eternity of pain will make me believe I lived life wrong.

Blessed be!

Sandee, how do you reconcile the fact that your version of God seems to create souls just for the purpose of torturing them, and not just for a 100 years or so but for an endless amount of time? We didn't ask to be born(as far as we know) and now we are going to hell, because we failed to subscribe to one specific variation of christianity. It doesn't add up to me. What are your thoughts?

-GBA

You have asked the age old question, Why were we created and why does God , A loving God insure damnation to those who don't worship him. The answer is I don't really know I can speculate all day long but we would still be left with the same questions. I do realize that it is considered cruel for God to punish those who don't believe in him, And I say God created the heavens and the earth and everything in between and that gives God the right to do whatever he sees fit, Whatever god wants to happen will happen because God is the creator therefore he can rule as he sees fit. I know thats a shaky answer to your question and I do apoligize, I think when we are ready we will understand why. Always a pleasure

I appreciate your response. I agree that we live in God's creation. If I'm going to be able to maintain a belief in God, it can't be such a God that needlessly tortures helpless souls. I come from a Christian background that started in my early teens, it was the christian concept of hell that got me questioning. I just felt that there was something wrong with the fact that I was believing out of fear of eternal punishment. I imagine you can relate to this in some way. Again thanks for the response and take care.

-GBA

I don't really think there's something terrible about believing in a god, the terrible aspect comes in only in the way people believe in their gods. You seem like a nice person Sandee but I actually think you'd be even nicer without god. I don't like the black and white outlook on the world reflected in the statement; "You have to understand that if your not with God you are against God and that will bring very dire consequences." And if we pretend that I believed in a soul and god and all that, then I'd say that since my eternal soul and an possible eternity in hell, well then god could try and be more clear about his existence, what he wants and perhaps explain why he should be worshipped. Creating this world certainly seems like the work of an amateur and not an omnibenevolent and omnipotent something.
I see myself as a good person. For someone to think I'm bad(evil) just because I don't believe in their god seems odd to me. Let my life speak for itself.
You seem to be leaning towards Pascal's wager but I'd say that given all the different beliefs in different gods all over the world and some of those gods' dislike of someone worshipping other gods than them, it would be a better bet to believe in none of them.

I have no doubt you are a good person and I would not call you evil because you don't believe in God. We all have a choice and I respect your choice and you. Thanks for the post, Always a pleasure

The true nature of God.

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Say: He is Allah, the One and Only!
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not nor is He begotten.
And there is none like unto Him.

If god does not fit the above, he is false and a true god.

For those who dont believe in God, i deal with you lot later. in a nice way ofcourse, reasoning , logic, science etc.

Demian, you believe darkness exists?

One should not come to believe in God/s out of fear you can not love someone or something out of fear.
Do you want your children to love you out of that same fear? I am not saying that your pushing your thoughts & beliefs on anyone here but when you talk of hell & burning it does comes across that way. Thats one of my biggest pet peeves about christianty of the motvation thought worship though fear.

Yup that is the way Lucifer wanted to win souls for God.

In the beginning, He has come around now and has a Heart of Love for Man and Father.

Love Omnaka

My Gods don't feel so hard, but kind, helpful and loving. You don't toss a baby into the fire cause he pooped his pants. I don't fear them. They make me feel wonder.

If you have the right concept for GOd, then you will not have any problems, and god is merciful, he does not toss childern in to hell, children that die go to heaven, only those people that die once they reahced an age for understanding are judged (adults)

Yea Darkwind, Get the right Concept For God, whats wrong with you.

And while you are at it why don't you get the right way to pray.
and I'm sure Ozi can fill you in on the right foods to eat, and the right Burka for your Other half, THere is black , Or you can try black, or There is always black.

Love Omnaka

if you look at your mother of your brother jesus, who is better you or her, if its the latter, she too wore a burka, secondly, the bible tells you women to dress modestly like the quran tells women, but what most of you dont know is, that it tell man to dress in a certain way first then addresses the women. Mary the mother of all pious women, dressed moderately, our muslims women follow her example and muhammeds wifes example, and follow the command of god.

As for praying, you know im right, i pray more like jesus than most christians.

The mother of My bro Jesus , is the Holy spirit, Father's wife, Together they make One God Mary was Just the host for the method Of Jesus Birth in that Life KNow that she Is The mother Of My spirit too, thats How we are brothers.

I have followed Father of this universe Through out all my Lives, My god''s love is unconditional, I can respect your decision to Believe Allah or God Has conditional love For you, why is it so hard for you to respect My God's unconditional love For Me? If Freewill is what it's all about, should you be choosing for me?

Iam no Infidel , Iam A loving son Of GOD. who are you to challenge This?, or judge my Love for the creator of My spirit?

Love Omnaka

I dont think that there is anything one man can do during his short tenure on earth that would merit eternal damnation. I think if there is a god and with that god there is an afterlife, I cannot possibly believe that there is an eternal hell. Purgatory perhaps, but hell? No.

There is nothing wrong with believing in God. You want people to respect your beliefs. However, in order to get that respect, you have to respect the beliefs of others, and give them the same freedom to believe in their own religions, or lack of. The world is too diverse of a place for everyone to get their way. Everyone wants the respect and freedom to do and believe what they think is right, however, so does everyone else. If you have a whole room full of Christians saying the pledge of Allegiance, with one Athiest in the room, should the word God be left out in respect of the one person who doesn't want to say it?? No. They can say the Pledge, and just not use that word if they want. The world cannot cater to every single person's beliefs, and the majority should not have to adapt to what the vast minority believe. Everyone should have the freedom of religion that was promised them. However, some people do take this too far. Before you judge others because of what they believe, you should ask yourself some questions first.
First, how can you be so sure that what you believe is right, and if anyone has any other beliefs, that they are going to hell for it??
In my opinion, which I've stated before under other topics, I don't believe that is how God would work. God gave us minds, and the ability to make choices. This is a gift. How can you believe that God would condem his own children for using the gift that he gave us? I do believe in God, and try to live a good life. A life that I think God would be proud of me for. I do not, however, go to church on Sunday. I have not found one religion yet that, in my opinion, has got it right. I can't imagine a God that would send me to hell for not going to church every Sunday, or condemn me to eternal damnation for eating pork on a Friday. I do believe, however, that God does not want a bunch of people who are arrogant enough to claim that they KNOW what is right, claiming to do things in his name, because other men told them it was the right way. I honesty do not think that God wants to be worshipped, as much as he would want to be respected, revered, honored, and loved. God knows how I feel. I don't have to go to church every week to prove it to him. I prove it to him everyday of my life, by doing well, leading a good life, and respecting others in their lives.
Everyone has their own set of beliefs, and that is what works for them. If they are wrong, then they will have to be the ones to answer to God. Now, I don't want anyone to take this the wrong way, because I do respect everyone and their beliefs. But, just ask yourself, what if you have it wrong?? Then YOU will have to be the one to answer to God, and explain that the reason you lead the life you did is because some other person who claimed to be close to God told you it was the right way. I'm not saying that any religion is wrong, or that anyone's beliefs are wrong, because honestly, who knows for sure?? If anyone claims they know for sure, they are usually the first ones I will dismiss. Nobody knows, but many people believe.

Tell me this then, what does the bible mean by begotten son..

i am not trying to offend you please understand that, im trying to point out what seems like certain flaws in the belief. Mary had god in her womb for 9 months, according to the bible this made her impure for 40 days, god is impure. See what i mean, see what you are following, you say the holy ghost, the brother and the father are one, yet three different person, the trinity is not even mentioned in the bible and its the hardest concept to understand in christianity, if one dies do they all die, if the father knows the end time exactly, why does jesus and the spirit not know it then. If they are really one, they cant keep secrets can they. I dont judge your love for god, im sure you do love him, i judge the biblical God you follow and his teachings, if you had a gospel of jesus, that would be more acceptable to me as a muslim. They main point we make is that non are worthy of worship but god alone, (allah).


BIG K.

God has given us the ability to understand and fathom right from wrong, but if you reject he truth even when its proven then you are worthy of punishement, this is what satan did, he knew the truth, but arrogance made him rebel, these are attributes we have too, but if you test and verify somethign as truth and at the same time verify what other beliefs are and what false basis they are built on, then would you stil follow it, As nice and pretty as it may sound, if it has not solid foundation of truth, then is it worth following. Arrogance is the wrong word, only used by those who have belief systems built on falsehoods and know they cant prove it to be the truth, where as i am not arrogant, but confident, the latter is different, confident to prove to anyone that the islam is the truth and the quran is the final message from God, and Muhammed (pbuh) is the final messenger of GOd.

You Go BIG K, I know God is proud of your belief and Has unconditional love for you. Thats My opinion, But Ido know.

Love Omnaka

[quote name='Omnaka' date='Jan 8 2008, 05:15 PM' post='2083590']
You Go BIG K, I know God is proud of your belief and Has unconditional love for you. Thats My opinion, But Ido know.

Love Omnaka
[/quo

Opinion is differnt to fact.

Love Omnaka


It was a compliment, and Thats a fact.

Love Omnaka

I'll look forward to being dealt with through logic, reasoning and science.

Do I believe in darkness?

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
dark·ness [dahrk-nis] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. the state or quality of being dark: The room was in total darkness.
2. absence or deficiency of light: the darkness of night.
3. wickedness or evil: Satan, the prince of darkness.
4. obscurity; concealment: The darkness of the metaphor destroyed its effectiveness.
5. lack of knowledge or enlightenment: heathen darkness.
6. lack of sight; blindness.

I'd say it depends on which definition you use. If it's 3 then no. The others yes.

Well anyway you look at it, darkness does not exist, if i asked you to bring me darkness, could you. If i asked you to bring me light, could you? the latter yes, its phyiscally possible, i can bring a torch or fire etc, its light, darkness is a perception which we have labled when there is an absence of light. Evil is an absence of Good, because the latter would fight and the former would perish. my point was there are many things we believe in, which have no real existence or a physical one, but regarding GOd we dont believe in him , just because we dont see him. Yet he exists, and has provided proof for this existence, a book the quran, its testable, and can be verified to be the truth.

You say that I reject the truth, even when it's proven. And you say this is what satan did. How do you know this?? Did you experience this yourself?? Were you there?? Have you sat down with God and satan and had a conversation, and heard it directly from their mouths?? You say that you have the confidence to prove that islam is the truth, then prove it. Show me. Not by quoting things other men have said or written. Because then, you are beleiving in what those men have said or written, not what God has said. This is why I do not follow any one particular religion. The bible, the quran, all written by men who claim it is the word of God. Like I said before, if you believe in them, you are not believing that they are the word of God, you are believing in the men that wrote them.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that what you believe is wrong at all, because personally, I don't know. But claiming that you do is wrong. You don't know, but you believe, and there is nothing wrong with that. I respect your beliefs, and ask that you respect mine. Nothing more.

In agreed with Big K whats the prob bro, I liked his post and Paid a compliment, You wanna judge my compliment?

If you Go to whyislam Board , You will find many others who believe as yo, and won't feel the need to converyt anyone. There is even a interreligious Part , Just in case you do.

State your truth , But leave Mine alone You dig? My Love is not in Question and your actions are not speaking very well IMO for what you say is not Judging.

Love Omnaka

There is a slight problem with your reasoning. I agree that darkness is the absence of light. But I do not agree that evil is the absence of good. Light can be shown to physically exist through science and reasoning. Good and evil are just characteristics that can't really be proven to exist. Also, not everyone's definition of good and evil are the same, while the definition of light never changes. Ask any 10 people to think of someone who is the epitome of good/evil. Everyone will pick a different person because good and evil have to do with your personal moral beliefs.

Exactly. I've stated mine, and you've stated yours. They are nothing more than that.

True, but i was generalising, on the whole, evil occurs, if there is a lack of goodness there, no one to stop them. But yeh some people are evil and have it inside them. I agree with you. I may have got that wrong, but im not arrogant not accept when im wrong.

I agree. Good and evil are simply opinions of behavior. Everyone has their own opinions as to what is evil and what is not.

Yep characteristic, which we have labelled, using criterion for jugdment, based on religion.

Exactly. And there being many different religions, there are many different labels as to what is evil and what is not. What is considered evil in one religion, might be considered next to god in another, and vise versa.

Will you bring me love? How about hate? You can't. You can try to express something that should show those things but bring them you can't. So by your logic I guess that means they don't exist. We have made a lot of words for things just so we are able to discuss them. How we talk about different things tell you nothing about the existence of god.

The only thing the quran is proof of is that it was written.

i cant bring any of them, i can manifest them feelings, and you will recognise them due to the attributes they carry and how they effect us. As for God, you can see him, but we recognise him through his attributes too, for example, all mighty etc. One attribute. therefore if he claims he has sent a message, written or not, his words should manifest perfection, like him, his words should perfect, and nothing equal to it or like it. This is the quran my friend and it can be proven to be from GOd.

Then again, I ask you to prove it. It is a book, written by men, who CLAIM it is the word of God. If you put your faith in a book, you are doing nothing more than putting your faith in the author.
Like I said before, I'm not claiming that it is wrong, just not verifiable as you are claiming. You have your beliefs, and that is great. Others have different beliefs though, and there is no way you or anyone else can PROVE them wrong, or yourself right. You can only correspond what you BELIEVE to be true.

i take the relativist's approach

every opinion is true.

so i seek that stem from which all the branches originate.


Ozi how can one prove the quran is perfect.

i agree with perfect begets perfect but im interested in how you beleive the quran is.