Designer babies: now there's a concept that gives me the creeps. It seems to me that part of being a good parent is accepting the fact that you don't have total control over your kids. Looking at your kid and thinking "she has the same eye color as Brad Pitt because I had a crush on Brad Pitt nine months before she was born"... that has to be the essence of shallow.

They did that with animals, dogs imparticular, and made specialty breeds, This resulted In less healthy weeker Dogs prone to more disease and sickness , then the Naturally created species, I think the repurcussions Of this is vein and sad, IMO.

Love Omnaka

I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE THINKING!!!!. And by designer baby I am not talking about making them look a particular way. (though possible and concievable that parents will) im talking about families that have a problem with an older child that can be fixed using certain methods by altering an embryo, look at this article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3002610.stm

anyway im not condoning it im just saying it is possible and being done. Cloning will eventually occur, and hopefully it will come off successfully otherwise God will have allowed us to engeneer genetic freaks who are still people none the less. The life force that causes our body to work is the soul, it has been measured to weigh 7 pounds

http://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp

there is no life without a soul, in fact death is the abscence of a life force which is a soul.

they do it with people right now. and they are doing it in order to find new ways to cure disease. Helpful, yes, wrong, maybe. It is not for me to say.

Well said.


This had to be Sandee,

All the nuclear weapons that Father has dismantled, "That never went Off" I would guess You were not Made aware of. Only those Who pushed The button know. Some more propheseys need to be fulfilled before Anihlation will be permitted, By Man Or Nature.

Love Omnaka

Yeah it was me, I wasn't aware that "they never went off" Had occured you are right there. I do not follow politics, most are just ill concieved and out right lies. I find them boring and depressing. What I do know of politics I don't like, Always a pleasure

Oh sorry I misunderstood, I see nothing wrong with fixing a child That Father has put a spirit in to.

God has not Ever lied to me.

It wont hapen, and if by some freak of Nature it does I believe it will have the abcenceof Love, making it inherently evil, and it will never leave the cage.My opinion only.

Love Omnaka

It's impossible for me to believe that anyone "deserves" to have schizophrenia, diabetes, etc. That's just not possible in my understanding of the cosmos. So anything that cures disease has to be okay.

No look at my post to Rave girl I explain how The Human combustion thing came about. I asked the same question to Father.

I Don't think they let the inmates Have computers in there.

Love Omnaka

people are patients in hospitals not inmates. lol

Depends on whos on the inside I suppose. You got your in Patients and your out patients, Potato Potaato, Tomato, Tomoto.

Love Omnaka

Does everyone have me on ignore or something??

Chi Kung meditation can repair a spine so damaged that docters would tell you that you needed surgery or else you'd be in a wheel chair without it.

Can you tell father to visit me tonight? I would be greatful

Do you have Back problems?

I'm sorry This is the first post I remember of yours Mbytel, Not Ignoring you at all, Things were Moving pretty fast there for a while, I had problem keeping up and track.

What is up with your Back?

I can Pray for you, and ask Father , Or mother to visit, I don't tell Father or Mother anything But thank you, I ask a whole lot of questions. I will ask Please tell what is wrong.

Love Omnaka

Sorry Mbyte, I am not ignoring you, I am sincerly sorry you have back problems, Can you tell me about Chi Kung a little? Always a pleasure

The holy ghost or spirit permeates the entire universe, and is certainly found in all human beings. It is a connection through creation to god because god utilises the physical power of the spirit to create/manipulate matter and energy. (If matter and energy did not include the holy spirit it would not be possible to manipulate them.)

Having said that, our soul is completely different. Each human being gets one unique soul. It begins at conception, and grows and develops through out our life. At death it is put into storage/sleep and only reintegrated at our resurrection. It is placed back into a new and superior form of human body. Our soul is our self aware consciousness. It is the function which allows us free choice, and to learn, develop and grow. It gives us, innately, many of gods abilities which we were meant to slowly grow and develop into. Our soul is tied to our living body from which it separates at death. Only god can restore it to us.

Thus a clone is no different to a baby born naturally. It will have its own soul, begun at cell division (when like any embryo it has full human potential) and it will develop all the human attributes of a normal human being. There may be many good reasons why cloning has physical or ethical problems, but a clone is as much a child of god as all the rest of us. Personally I think a human clone is inevitable and I just hope he or she is dealt with, with as much compassion as we would like to see for ourselves.

I'm pretty sure that Scientists are on the verge of learning about spirit energy. When they do it will be the biggest news Since time,

Love Omnaka

Did you actually READ the Snopes article???? The only truth about it is that a person did attempt to test whether a soul had weight. It proves nothing. Firstly, the test was conducted in 1907. Dr. MacDugalls results were challenged by his peers.

As you said "Only God can put a spirit back in to another Body, The God of this world said He will not do that, and as another poster wrote, The spirit waiting to come down , with free will would never subjec itself to this, If it did, I do not think it would last long, The absence of love would kill it.

Love Omnaka

no no i don't have back problems. but the woman who thought me chi kung had back problems. Her problem went to the extent that she was told she would be in a wheel chair. She would have got metal pins in her back but it would only give her that bit longer before she would be in a wheel chair.

chi kung is basically standing and breathing. You do move your arms in perticular ways and your chi will push through so called "blockages" and this will make you want to move physically. You can feel an arising pain from old injuries so they heal properly and bring up supressed emotions so you could just start crying while practicing. I have seen a guy go on the ground and just shake uncontrollably as if he was epileptic all because he was meditating. The effects seem to be similar to fasting. Fasting is also said to have amazing health benefits. People would think that the symptoms of fasting would be from malnutrition. I'm not talking a day fast but like 3 days to a week. just drinking water. I don't know about the fasting though.

The meditation is a moving meditation wear your just standing up and kind of letting the chi do it's thing. It's like your life has effected it and blocked it. Then you meditate and just forget about you intollect and your chi will return balance to your body.

I think that science is the beginning of spirituality. The scientists just don't realise it yet.

I disagree omnaka. The clone will have its own soul while alive. It will have to make its own decisions about whether to accept god/jesus and face the same consequences as the rest of us. Ie. a clone has an equal chance of having its soul resurrected, as a natural born human. Otherwise you are saying that a cloned human does not possess a soul to start with. There is not a limited number of souls. Each human being is granted one,both to steer its path through this world and to accompany it into a new body, in the next.

Apart from being against the nature /spirit of god, the idea that a clone would not be granted a soul is illogical. We already intervene in many ways in the creation of life. Would you say that babies concieved in-vitro, or through surrogacy, would not have a soul. Cloning is really only another level of medical intervention, using the skills and talents god granted us. It is not creating life from nothing. That remains, as yet, beyond human skills.

Some people seem to have such limited faith in god's love that they think he will somehow be angered by human ingenuity. As long it is used for creative purposes, I think he will admire and appreciate it.

the soul is the summary of you.
clones will have a soul
androids will have a soul
our children will have a soul

that will be where the problem will lie.
if we forget that our creations have a soul.
they will rise up in rage and hatred for being denied the needs of the soul.

serioisly read the story of Frankenstein the only monster in that book is the doctor.

We agree to disagree then, Thats cool.

If it happens Then I guess we'll al know huh?

Love Omnaka

Goodun!LoL.

Love Omnaka

Welcome to 1997.

Can you elaborate Please.

Love Omnaka

I am sorry please forgive me for being ignorant, But was frankenstein fiction? We are God's creation and frankenstein ours, We are perfect because God creted us. Therefore what we create(life) can not perfect no? I don't see man creating anything more perfect than God and should not be trying to play God, Because we are mere human beings and God, Well is God. Always a pleasure

If cloning is possible I think it's a dangerous path to go down. learning computers is complex crap. Well imagine learning universal physics in order to cover what attribute one may have in a clone and so on. We could totally rise ourselves above nature and never become subject to it again. We would have to calculalate everything out in order to do anything. We would have to make sure that we are able to defend our selfves against nature and so on. Wel would have to take everything into consideration and thats impossible. Leave it to god.

Question: If we are perfect, then why does your religion tell us that god had to send christ as a redeemer?

And what else, do you think, we should not try?

I think They will try, and have tried, and will continue to try, But I think it is in vein, and doomed to failier.

Love Omnaka

well omnaka, that response was 100% clear as mud....


care to expand upon your cryptic comments?

You are right , I'm done, Iv'e expanded on this subject enough. Thanks for an easy out.

LOve Omnaka

chicken!

Excelent point, I could have never said it any better, Thank You


[quote name='JMPD1' post='2091175' date='Jan 11 2008, 08:27 PM']Question: If we are perfect, then why does your religion tell us that god had to send christ as a redeemer?

. O
I am not sure how to answer your question , But I will try. God sent Jesus because yes we are sinner and Jesus died for our sins. Our pastor said " God sent Jesus to inform us of God's new law, The new testament. Jesus did fullfill that and gave his life so that we would have everlasting life. We are not perfect as we do sin God says we are all sinners that through Jesus Christ we can be redeemedur form , our body , Our mind(brain) , We are very complex and well made. I was trying to say we are amazing our bodies and brains are still not really understood fully and God created that, Us and we can not recreate something that perfect, Would you agree on that? imagine man trying to create something they have yet to fully understand.



No, Whats the old saying "If its not broken Don't fix it". Now I know there are people who are ill but I a not adressing that here, I am saying human beings are perfect the way God intended and we can never replace perfection, Always a pleasure

There is no such thing as perfect or imperfect. There is physicality and experience, as far as I know.

Bawk Bawk!

If you read back Ive probably answered A hundred posts in a couple Hrs My brain hurts, I know it's killin you. Where were you before I Got tired?Maybe I'll take it back up tomorro, I'm workin nights now

Love Omnak

"If man were meant to fly, god would have given him wings"

Sorry to all you true believers who think cloning is a bad idea, but I must disagree.

We have brains that thirst for knowledge. Knowledge, in and of itself is NEVER a bad thing. The ways that the knowledge is applied, determines whether it is good or bad.

To say that there are things we should not try to learn, is antithetical to our very nature.
We ARE the questing beast, poking our noses and our fingers into the dark unknown places seeking meaning, function, and cause.

In a sense, ever since the first man looked up at the stars and said "what are they? what do they do? Who put them there?" we have been searching for answers.

And, to me, that is also the start of faith. That first man, looking at the twinkling lights came up with an explanation: god put them there.
And that answer was fine and dandy- it fit and there were no loopholes, no unanswered equations.
However, in mans quest for learning, we came to a point where that answer no longer fit. Evidence from other areas made the answer unsatisfactory. And that was the birth of religion: an attempt to formulize and codify what god is and what god does.

And to this day, there are people who cling to the "god did it" answwer.

For the life of me, I cannot fathom why, although as long as it brings them comfort and peace, then it is a good thing. for them.

Signing off.
Good luck, good life, good journey.

One man did not create God, God did however create one man, Adam. God has been evident to man for thousands of years and man will continue to deny him the due credit he deserves all because God does not say okay skeptics here I am do what you will with it. Although you can see God in everything around thats not enough, Maybe God says well If thats not good enough for you then I can do no more to prove it to you. As you say Jmpd, Whatever brings you comfort and peace, Always a pleasure

but then who supports cloning and who does not

I have no problem with cloning given it falls under the same scrutiny as other kinds of medical procedures ethics boards oversee. What I see as an issue is the lack of understanding by the general public about the technology. I've actually heard someone say they should clone a mummy but the "clone wouldn't understand modern technology". I'm not kidding. That is the level of understanding of many people when it comes to cloning. If in the future we use cloning I hope by then that there is a better understanding, that people educate themselves more about it. Just like stem cell research funding which has fallen victim to people not understanding how it works and why it is so important, it is not fully utilized.

To the OP it would be no different than a genetic twin. Are twins single souled? That is unanswerable in that no one can detect a "soul". So far twins do just fine and aren't having spiritual issues.

God bever said that

knowledge means nothing without god. knowledge is a mental tool so we can thrive in a physical universe. To try and control nature through manipulation of genetics of anything is a bad mistake.

Hi Omnaka.

Yes people can live without huge portions of the brain, but that is due to another physical attribute of the brain itself, called Neuroplasticity. In a nutshell, this means that when the circuitry of the brain is disrupted, or damaged, the brain will re-wire certain parts to try and recreate as much of the damaged part as possible. It's especially successful in very young patients. The brain is a wonderful, complex, barely understood organ, and I don't think you are giving enough credit to it.

Neuroplasticity

Wiki's neuroplasticity entry

I think maybe, that if the god that you speak to is humorous like you said, maybe he is telling you a joke by saying clones would not have souls. Maybe it was sarcasm, I think you should ask him again, because it just doesn't seem right.

I was trying to get this very point across, The brain is so complex we don't understand fully its true capababilties so how then can we even think we can recreate it? Cloning someone includes the brain, How are we going to make someting we don't even understand, Always a pleasure

Hi SundogDayze,

Father and Mother of all spirit are responsible for putting the spirit in everything, Father told me He would not put a spirit in a Human clone. As Far as the brain is concerned And the missing Brain , I think it is the consciousness taking Over < or spirit, which needs no eyes to see , and No brain to think, How else can one account for surgury Patients who can say verbatim what was said during their operation, and or accounts of Blind people being able to see (Third Eye) Or spirit Eye.

Yes Father can be funny, but He answers My questions truthfully, or my enlightenment would be a Joke, It's Not.

It is understandable If you do not believe me.

Love Omnaka

I guess if one only believes that Father talked to those written about in the infancy of the world, and stopped after the Bible was written , Leaving Mankind alone to deal with spiritual matters Then what you say is understandable.

God , creator of all spirt, Said that.

Love Omnaka

I guess if one only believes that Father talked to those written about in the infancy of the world, and stopped after the Bible was written , Leaving Mankind alone to deal with spiritual matters Then what you say is understandable.

God , creator of all spirt, Said that.

Love Omnaka

Why do you keep mentioning "mother?" It's father son and holy ghost.


Also. Since the only spiritual contact that you have is with these beings, how do you know they aren't simply demons posing as God? Tricking you without actually saying it? Taking advice from unknown voices is rarely a good thing.

if one thinks the holy ghost could then match the mother.

bk2pt

there is nothing wrong exploring questionable areas of science.

the only reason there is a problem is more how it impacts our definition of ourselves.
humans like to think they are special.

clones threaten the concept of "one of a kind".

genetics is constantly telling us that "we are animals" regardless.

messing with nature causes us to question "ethics and evolution". if removed from nature man will not develop naturaly unless we apply unethical measures to replace nature. "to kill one to spare the many"

Hmm, Something to think on.

Thats quite the brew you got going there.

Love Omnaka

"Cloning Can Not Succeed"? But cloning already succeeds -- it happens spontaneously already in the form of identical twins.