No.

Love Omnaka

I know, It's you who does not. It is understandable If you do not believe me, But your Judgement Of Me I can do with out, I know whome I speak with, and it Is the Father and Mother Of all creation, and spirit in this universe, I'm sorry you feel what I share seems demonic, I never really looked at My message Of unconditional love That way, but I suppose anything Good can be twisted.

Happens all the time since before they Thought Jesus was nuts For Talking to Father.

You would think I would be used To people calling Father(GOD) a deamon by now, or suggesting it.


Mother is the Holy spirit. It's Ok if you do not believe me, Lets see, You Have a Father, You have a Son, Pray tell what is missing, Ill give you a hint, As in Heaven so it is on Earth. and one more Clue- It's not a nother Male figure.

Love Omnaka

THat was not Mans doing, it was Fathers and Mother's Each twin Has his own spirit. One spirit per Body, with no less than One guardian spirit sent with each spirit incarnating in to a body. Thats God Playing God With all the credentials and expertise That experience Can Achieve, and it is done with Unconditional love, Not science.

Love Omnaka

Cloning will not fail. Whether we, as people are capable of dealing with who lives, who dies, who is greatest and who can afford to go on forever is really the variable likely to fail. The fault lies not in our science but in our capacity to make decisions, or to pass the decisions onto obscure deities.

Within the next 20-30 years i predict a massive decline in individuality as it is, with the possibilities of digital memory, copying, building, synthesising everything that makes a human being unique.

Do you feel ANY man made life form will fail? Or just those created out of flesh and genetics?

What about test tube babies, where they fertilize an egg outside the human body and then implant the embryo into a mother. At what point does Father and Mother put the Soul into Baby?

As science progresses, the false religious nonsense people cling to will crumble.

We don't know if there is such thing as a soul
if there is, we don't know the nature of the soul

We should treat everyone, clone or test tube baby or naturaly born person with dignity and respect and not worry about such nonsense as whether or not Father and Mother put Soul into Child.

This means that souless clones are nothing more than skin bags full of flesh and bones. If god is right and this is true, then that would solve any ethical or moral issues as far as cloning for transplant organs and stem cells.

Thanks for solving that dilemma for the world Omnaka. You may win the noble peace prize for this.

You know what, I'm not going to keep dancing around the issue:

Anyone who claims that they are having conversations with God and keeps Writing in Random capital Letters seems to Be a little Bit unstable.

Omnaka, thank you for your idea that clones will wither and die because god won't put a soul in them. It's been good for discussion. I am more and more curious about YOU, however. Where are you? What do you do for a living? How did you come to believe that God is talking to you in person?

I don't mean to offend, I'm just writing what everyone else is thinking and I think you should have the chance to explain yourself fully.

So I was watching the news last night and they were talking about using cloned animals as livestock for food, and for high quality breeding.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnews/20080114/ts...aitanofficialok

What do you think God says about cloned animals used for food, Omnaka?

Just yesterday, they were claiming that the meat and milk from a cloned animal is just as good as the real thing. And then they added that the cloned animals are not used for anything like that, only the offspring. Hmmmm. In India, where the religion says that when you die you could come back as a cow or they worship the cow, seems to me that cloning cattle would be a good thing. Now, maybe they have cloned humans and I think that artificial insemination is a type of cloning, but that is not a widespread thing. Neither is testube babies.
Now, ask yourself this question. If a person whom you say does not have the Spirit of God and he goes to a priest and the priest lays hands on the individual and he comes away with a Spirit of God, what is that?

Artificial insemination is not a type of cloning.

Right about this!.
artificial insemination is a squirty tube for targeted pregnancy effort where 2 sets of DNA come together in a controlled environment.
Cloning is a genetic alteration of DNA with all sources coming from one being.

Well, Ok. I was just thinking and that thought came to me. I guess you're right.

But in cloning they inject the egg of an animal or whatever with the DNA from a male and place it inside the womb, right?

That is what they keep showing on the TV when they show Dolly the sheep.



Isn't that a test tube. AI is just that, inseminating a female artificially. A surrogate mother implanted with the stuff from the male is AI, I think.

It gets dumber every time I read it! I mean my answer.

no artificial insemination is taking the male part and putting inside of the female. natural conception except the sex is missing. you know so lesbians can have babies and women who want kids but not a father and gay men can have kids using a surrogate.
There is another insemination process that is more involved and that requires taking a female egg and fetilizing it with sperm incubating it for a short period and then replacing the egg. they usually do 3 or 4 egg each time.


you know with cloning gay men will be able to fuse their DNA to make a baby that is genetically both of theirs..!!

In cloning, they empty an egg of it's genetic material, then choose a cell to be used as an original, extract it's genetic contents, and place them in the empty egg. And then place the egg inside a womb.

Oh God! I've heard about double X or double Y chromosomes, but that's frightening, double gay!

Aside from my obvious opposition to the 'idea' of a God, soul and afterlife etc. I also oppose the opposition of science and this includes cloning and genetic engineering.

This is all imaginative speculation and w/o the evidence that clones cannot live there is no real basis for your argument other then religious mumbo jumbo.

Allow me to explain to you how a clone of yourself would work...

If I cloned myself that clone would become his own person, because they will grow up under different circumstances and have different life experiences, friends etc that clone other then looking like me will not be me. Identical twins are born with the exact same DNA as one another and share many traits but as they age their genetic information will begin to change as is in all people they will no longer share the exact same genetic code. This works the same way with clones, in fact one way to look at clones is to look at identical twins which are essentially clones of one another at birth. Identical twins show that 2 people can in fact share the exact same DNA, looks and even mental prowess.

A clone is not YOU as the said clone will grow up in a different world then you did.

Cloning does work though in anything that has DNA which is all life.

The proof is the fact that a Human clone has not been created yet, and my statement in the opening Post was not taken from any religion.
God's Religion, Nature and being, is Unconditional love not the man made stuff of judgement so many adhere to today.



Because they are now coming out with Cloned Animals Today does not mean that Father will stick a spirt in a Human.

Iam curious Though, Would you Eat a cloned Piece Of Meat? any and all answers apreciated.

Love Omnaka

How would you know if you were/ Always a pleasure

Iam hoping it will have to be stated On the packaging.

Maybe if enough consumers Tell the meat factories that they want to know what they are eating It will be so.

What is your answer to The question Sandee, Would you eat Cloned meat, poultry or Fish?

Love Omnaka

Only if they are to be dragon food. Maybe that is why the dead of Jericho were not buried. Yahweh got hungry after knocking the walls down? Still a smile over the true religion thread.



No. But the complete answer is that I prefer to be a vegetarian. Animals have the spark of life, and feel pain from dying.

Well I don't think I would, And I would hope the companies would have to put "cloned meat on the package". So no I would not knowinly, always a pleasure

That proves nothing.... The fact that we can successfully clone other mammals is more then enough proof that humans will inevitably be cloned. The only reasons why a human clone has not been made are because of laws and the process has not been perfected yet... We are still in the early stages of genetic research.



I don't believe humans have spirits nor do i believe in a 'father'.

If this here is the sole reason why you think a human clone will never work your wrong and the evidence backs this as well. When clones fail like Dolly who lived for several years it is because of genetic sickness not because it had no soul.



Of course I would and eventually we all will be too... We already in many cases eat cloned plants or plants in which the seeds were derived from cloning and crossbreeding.

Many vegans wont eat meat due to the inhumane nature in which animals are slaughtered, cloning the meat would end our need to farm cattle etc as huge meat cloning factories cut costs, jobs and obvious health risks posed by eating meat that comes from cattle and other animals as well. The process can be controlled and our food would be safer and healthier then ever, such advances would also do wonders for global poverty and economically the financial prospects are such that cloned meat has been approved in the US.

Cloned meat grown in a vat is still meat. It would be the food (substitute) of barbarians.

Someone who wears shrunken human heads around their neck is a headhunter. Someone who wears an imitation shrunken head isn't any better.

Actually I would prefer to eat cloned meat (animal clones ) just as i prefer to eat genetically modified food. First, it would be grown under much stricter controls than present meat and therefore would likely be safer to eat. Secondly, (as far as meat can be said to be an efficient source of protein) cloned meat could be produced more efficiently, using less of the world's resources. This is also the reason i prefer gm food, because they are modified to be more efficient and can feed more people more economically (Yea i know that they are largely controlled by multinational corps intent only on profits, but still the potential is there)
I would also be happy to use cloned human material for medical purposes( This does not involve growing a whole human, but rather the cloning and development of human tissue for everyhting from the treatment of burns to new organs.) This is already possible and has been successfully trialled in labs in several countries.

Fact remains A human has not been cloned, Animal cloning and Human cloning are two seperate things , another seperate issue is cloning For body parts which is not a seperate living entity but one accepted by The spirit inhabiting the Body in need.

Facts are Facts. There has not been a Human clone made. and you have only speculated that there will be one in the future Of this world, because of the progress being Made to help those Father has already placed a spirit in to.

Love Omnaka

If you knew anything about biology and chemistry then you would know that aside from our big brains very little sets us apart physiologically from other mammals. A human has not been cloned your right however not for the reasons you specify, but rather again due to restrictions regarding cloning and ethics.



Facts are facts and I'm a scientist who specifically specializes in genetics... I know for a FACT that it is only a matter of time before we see the first human clone, people have already been genetically engineered, we can grow organs in the lab etc and we have created the very first artificial life form.

One other thing you talk as if you know for sure there is a soul in every person but not animals, do you have any solid evidence at all for the existence of a soul because all the evidence I have seen says otherwise.

The greater good should supercede and religious beliefs.

Perfecting the cloning of animals solves world hunger problems. Also preserving species going extinct...and I always wanted a back up set of organs.

mhm. Just because it has not happened does not mean that it is not possible. Before the Wright brothers powered flight had not happened and yet it was proven possible...

The fact is that we have not done it yet, This is largely due to both technological shortcomings and out dated morals. In the future, quite probably the near future these technological shortcomings will be reduced and eventually overcome completely. And the outdated morals which are generally based on religious beliefs will also eventually be overcome as religion slowly is reduced as is happening already. There are some nations which are almost completely secular now and I suspect that they will be at the forefront, indeed may already be at the forefront of the human cloning feild.

Yes.



Dolly was euthanized at 8 years old because she contracted a disease common to sheep, most likely having nothing to do with the fact that she was cloned.

When human cloning works, Omnaka has already set up his "out" to explain why. He said earlier that evil or discontented spirits not in heaven might jump into the clone.

How convenient...an explanation for why cloning works and justification to discriminate against clones, all without having to admit you were wrong.

Ya very convinent. But what if they are right? And if cloning can take place, people will use the clones to commit crimes and blame other people for it. For example, I clone human X, so clone X will have the same thumbprints, same DNA. Therefore the clone can be used for these evil deeds. Besides, if you are thinking that there will be good clones around, do you think they will get human rights? Or is it more likely they will be stuck in the scientist lab all day? So is it not better to leave some things to nature rather than messing around with everything we can get our hands on?

That seems pretty elaborate and fantastical. If someone has the technology and time to grow a clone to adulthood just so that they could commit a physical crime to frame me... seems a little silly. If they can do all that, then certainly they have the smarts to just embezel some money electronically and hide their tracks. So I'm not really concerned about that.




They should and will as long as nut jobs don't succeed in spreading their insane idea that clones have no spirit, and are therefore sub-human, or even worse, that they are inhabitted by evil spirits and have the scorn of God.



Only if they have a job there. I don't think that clones will be grown and kept perpetually as experiments. I think that clones will probably be used to help infertile couples, and once we can clone only certain organs, there will probably be no reason to create clones that are complete people, as long as we can still reproduce the old fashioned way.




Well, as a person who might have died in childhood if not for antibiotics and modern surgical technique, I'm glad we don't just leave things to nature, and so are my parents and everyone who loves me.

um. the cloned people will not be the same age. and a clone does not mean it is a copy. it means that the DNA source comes from only one person as opposed to two.

Athiestgod tell me if i am an idiot.

I think that there are going to still be differences that are possible, such as fingerprint, eye, and hair color depending on what is dominant and recessive in the DNA donor.

Well things like hair and eye colour would be the same between two clones because they have exactly the same genes (discounting mutations), and dominance doesn't change; so you're not going to have one clone with a dominant blue-eyed gene while the other clone's brown-eyed gene is dominant. The dominance will be the same in both. Everything else you said was right.

Right, but with a blue eyes dominant and a green eye recessive is there a chance that in development the recessive gene moves ahead of the dominant (even though it by definition it is dominant,) are there any factors that could in theory cause that to happen?
or has it really been THAT long since biology?

I still don't think we are playing God. Man made man. God made the universe. Everything else was a result of this. God doesn't just put people on Earth. Man does it by reproducing, man makes man. Also when cloning if you need to extract dna then put it in the egg. Then won't that dna have a soul in it too? So the clone will just have the exact same soul in them. I never heard of any religion saying there can't be two of the exact same souls, just seperated. And i've never heard of any religion that says we can't clone. If there is please give me a quote.

I think lifes too short too be worrying about if we are playing God. We should do all we can. And if something goes wrong we can learn from our mistakes. But we'll never know till we do it.

But cloning is an exact replica of a person, so it will follow the person its was cloned after. Is it not better to try naturally to make a newborn unique instead of following a person?

Yes there is spirit in animals.
I never said there wasn't

I'm just Sharing What Father(God) told me.

No spirits in Human Clones for You, Maybe you could make a spirit in your Lab, To go with your clone.

Love Omnaka

Yes there is spirit in animals.
I never said there wasn't

I'm just Sharing What Father(God) told me.

No spirits in Human Clones for You, Maybe you could make a spirit in your Lab, To go with your clone.

Love Omnaka

So Dolly survived 8 years, then there is no reason why a human clone can survive either, if animals have spirits too.

Your making it sound like we are special compared to animals. And that it is ok to clone animals not humans, but we are animals too. And how do we know the hasn't been a human clone anyway? It could just be a secret project in Korea or something. And nothing terrible has seemed to have happen. And what about twins? They can be exact genetic copies, which is basicially a clone, do they have the same soul or seperate souls?

When they clone a Human You let me know.

It is not going to happen.

There is a diferance between Human and animal spirit.

Do you think your Human spirit evolved from an animal, It could happen, but it didn't

Love Omnaka

Atheistgod also thinks all the vegetarians would be happy to eat meat, as long as it was cloned meat grown in a laboratory. I know he is wrong about that. Would not the people happy to eat it be the ones who aren't vegetarians to begin with?

A question to the people who said they would eat cloned meat- if cloned meat isn't technically meat in your opinion, and all the vegetarians should be happy about it, then why is cloned human flesh still human? By the same logic, would you be willing to eat cloned human flesh, if it wasn't technically cannibalism?

Yea, secret , lab in Korea, thats why we have not heard about it yet Ha ha .

Only one spirit per Body, Twins have seperate spirit.

Gotta go seal a tile floor, Have a good day.

Love Omnaka

Yes it will happen. Abominations of our own creation will be developed. God allowed us to acend to the heavens without death, glimpses across the universe, and the technology to do it with, He allowed us to gather all of the information to do so, why would he suddenly halt progress?? Is God a technology tease?

so why should humans be subject to things like that?

Not if the genes are behaving as they should be, of course a mutation could always kick in and disrupt things.

I believe that cloning is possible but that I don't like the idea of people meddling with it.

Get ready, here we go!

aliens came here, then they said "we need a slave race to do our work for us" and so the splicing began with their DNA.
Whalla the human race is just spliced animal/alien DNA.

No.