Father said, "Science Is Playing God With out a Proper Degree". (I never in my wildest dreams thought I would be Quoting God)

What this means is Because Father and Mother (God) Put The spirit in the body, He will not Put one in A clone, And it will be doomed to Failier. Without a spirit which has been properly Unconditionally loved By God First , If another spirit jumps in to this body , it would inherently Be doomed to be Evil

There are spirits Which after this life, Shied away from Fathers love Light, which will stay earth bound untill the Last day, These spirits, would be the likely candidates For jumping in to a Clone.

Please don't get Me wrong, THere are Good Earth bound Spirits also, that interact with Us every day, But after Death, These sirits which can Travel between Both worlds Heaven and Earth, Have after Death of the body, Joind with Fathers love Light. Many will backpeddle away from this light ot of shame or fear.

Those who pass through the veil, can pass back To continue Loving his bro On Earth as well as in Heaven.

(Funny My disclaimer is longer than my OP)


Love Omnaka

wat the hel kind of spiritulal bull is that u relly belive wat ur saying ha

God puts a soul in every human being, I see no reason why a clone would be different. It would created through a different process, but a human being nonetheless. Its just the flesh that takes the appearence, the mind and soul will be one of a kind.

A very interesting hypothesis based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever. But an interesting thought nonetheless.

I'm curious when God told you that "science is playing god without the proper degree."

Does god speak to you regularly?

and what happens to a clone without this god given spirit?

dude you say some freaky stuff sometimes. i'm not saying it's bad because i think it's interesting. so you're saying a clone will have no soul, it will basicly be like a robot? also a spirit here on earth will jump into a clones body? you may be right for all i know.

I'm curious when God told you that "science is playing god without the proper degree."

About two years ago.


Does god speak to you regularly?

If I pray and call on Father , He will come. (Manifest), But I know Father and Mother( God) are with Me always.


and what happens to a clone without this god given spirit?

I answered That in the opening Post.

Love Omnaka

Basically Yes, but it would not live long, without a spirit, running the bodily functions.
And if a spirit did happen to jump in to one of these It would be inherently Evil (With out Love).

This could ba a nother reason to Build more Jails (That's a Joke)

Love Omnaka

Oh, the clone will be evil then. Got you.




The spirit runs the bodily functions? Did God tell you that too? How is it that Dolly the sheep grew to adulthood? Does this mean that all animals have spirits? They must, if they can have bodily funcitons. Yet Dolly grew to adulthood. Can you ask God to explain this?

Yes It would be an individual spirit jumping in to a body produced by Man ,if it did manage to Do it, But it is not God's will that this be done, one must be properly loved In the spirit realm, in order to produce this love on Earth in the Physical, The spirits which can pass back and fourth through Fathers veil , Or love light, know Fathers will, and would rather not Go there, not because they are afraid, Or don't have freewill as spirit, But because they Love Father unconditionally.

Love Omnaka

Each child born has a unique spirit how ever it gets here. A clone is just an identical twin. Also it has to be implanted in a female for gestation. A baby is just that and no babies are evil. That only comes when they are introduce to society.

Onnaka, are people going to start killing or discriminating against clones then, because they would be inhabbited by an opportunistic and evil spirit?

and what about Dolly the sheep? She lived for 8 years before being put down because she had arthritis and a lung infection. Was she inhabbited by an evil and opportunistic sheep spirit for 8 years? Reserchers don't seem to report Dolly being evil.

So, at least part of your hypothesis can not be correct. Either animals don't have spirits, in which case it is not the spirit that causes bodily functions. Or dolly must have been evil.

What do you think it is? Was Dolly the sheep evil, or do animals not have spirits?

Omnaka,

As much as I love reading your posts, and I rarely have anything negative to say about what you believe, I have to disagree with you.


I tend to agree with The Classic, who said that God puts a spirit (also called soul in this post) into every human being, and that a clone is a human being, just with a different procedure.


This is what I would say, and remember that I am not even all that certain that humans have a God-created soul anyway.

Unless God himself uses a supernatural force to make a man choose a certain woman or vice versa (which would go against the whole free will idea) then it is just chance that a certain human being is formed from their union, so to speak. There is no intelligent reasoning for it, but just chance and biology. It's the same thing with cloned humans. There is no divine intervention that could only happen with the conventional method of creating a human.

When does God insert a soul into a human? The second it changes from a few cells into a living being? Why could he not do so with a cloned human, since the same process occurs, the cloned human goes from a clump of cells to a living being in the same way. Is not each cloned individual a product of another human, just like a naturally born human? Is it not made of the same elements, and is it not able to develop an individual conscious and emotions just like a naturally created human?

I think that cloned humans would also have a soul, and that the fact that a cloned living being can grow to develop different thoughts and ideals (this is theoretical but suggested) than it's original parent, even though it is a replication of the exact same DNA of the parent human proves that it does have a soul, and would be seen as an individual with a potential of it's own set of thoughts, beliefs, and faith by a higher being.

Also, I do not believe that a soul has any effect on biological processes and effectiveness of physical organs.

If god is all knowing then we are doing exactly what he wants and saw for us. How can man do any wrong when god knows we are doing it and saw it even befor our creation. Clones would be one of god's creatures as well would they not, for he saw use making them and allowed it. I would be pretty proud of my creation for now my creation has becom a creator themself. Ok I have no idea what I'm talking about LOL

The soul does not control our body functions in which way or form! So do souls just float around and hope to find a host? I thought god assigned souls to certin people, again what do I know.

LOl, Dolly the evil sheep har ha, ha, I would not Eat the meat,

But seriously Folks.

To your first question, I suppose This could be one scenario. And to answer your second, I think this is the more likly scenario, That they would never make it out of The lab, after seeng what they created. Or they would be "Put Down", maybe used for Body parts for une who has A spitit , put there by God.

Or in Dollies Case, Eaten.

Still don't think I would eat the meat though.

To answer your third Question, I do not think Dolly was evil, But I have been to Heaven and seen very sad Animal spirits.

So who knows.

Love Omnaka

I had an evil clone once, he was going around taunting and mooning complete strangers, and just a real nasty evil clone he was. I finally caught up with and shoved him of a cliff!
Unfortunately I was seen by a police patrol, and charged with…….




Wait for the punch line…….




Making an obscene clone fall

I don't know, there are too many points that can be argued with this.
Some religions believe that the soul of a child comes from a part of each of the parents souls, and "infused" into the baby at conception. If that were the case, since there is not actual physical conception between the parents for a clone, the pieces of the sould of those parents cannot be passed on, therfore the clone would be an empty vessel. The fears behind this is, demons who can supposedly posess someone with a soul by "imprisoning" it, would welcome the opportunity to jump into an already empty vessel, therefore creating an evil clone. As for Dolly the sheep, most religions believe that animals have no souls, that Gods children are the only creatures blessed with souls (Try telling that to your 5 year who's dog just died).
Many points could be argued for or against this theory, but unless someone knows for sure(and I don't care how much you claim to know, because you don't) exactly what souls are, how they are created, when they are introduced into the body, or, for others, if souls even exist, this topic is just a big argument waiting to erupt.
It's a good thing to question this kind of stuff though, because science obviously does not.

What is it that you think keeps you breathing while you are unconscious, Your brain? I dont think so Or the cilia which moves the food down your digestive tract, or the tast buds on your tongue Tast, Could all this be Because uf the thing Called You? T

I say there is a spark called a spirit , put there by God, which combines with the body and Takes care of the functions The body alone could not do.

Like He said with out The proper steps to getting a degree, They are taking short cuts, which will end in Failure, but this too is a learning experience for the scientist who Goes for it.

Love Omnaka

So is it your postition then, that breaking the 10 commandments is not wrong? Is it wrong to kill and rape? If your assertion is that man can do no wring because God knwos we are doing it and asw it before our creation, does that mean war is good?




Then I hope that, when clones actually become a reality, not many people think like you. It could lead to a clone holocaust.



But if a clone has no spirit, and I needed a kidney from my clone, would I have only a partial spirit, since some of my body would have no spirit? What part of the body does the spirit live in? If the spirit lives in the heart, should it be illegal to use a clone heart for a transplant, as the spirit might be an evil one?



So then a sad animal spirit that didn't go to heaven must have jumped into the cloned dolly before she died in the lab, because she lived 8 years, is that your position?

I aapreciate your response, I did not put this post up to Haveanyone see it my way or else, Its here to Start a dialogue, I apreciate every one's response, and Opinion, The scientist doing this recerch, are debating the same issue.

Love Omnaka

So what about people with out of body experiences?? When their soul leaves their body and travels?? Does that mean their dead??
I tend to think of it more like a car. Your body is just a machine made out of flesh. You can start your car and it can run(bodily functions), but without a driver(your soul) it isn't going much of anywhere. A machine, capable of running on it's own, but without someone in the drivers seat, It's just an empty shell.

That Was Funny

Love Omnaka

Becasue science deals in reality, not in religion. There is no evidence for a soul, so as far as science is concerned, there will be no concessions or precautions made for something that doesn't exist scientifically and exists only in the realm of spirituality and theory.


Well, 'naka, yes. A part of the brain does not "go to sleep" and keeps involuntary functions like breathing and digesting working on autopilot. Science can see this happening in types of brain scans, it is not an unknown factor.



Biology says different. We already know how the processes that keep the body working function, to a high degree.

Are biologists wrong?

Your Guardian spirit Jumps in and keeps The Body warm for you, For extended obe's, and because there is no time in the spirit realm , what one percieves as Hours, in the spirit may only be seconds The Physical.

Ever wonder why dead Bodies crap them selves as dhey die? The spirit which holds it normally is gone. LOL.

Sure science Questions every aspect of what we are talking about, And I see no reason why This topic has to "blow up"

I believe we have some competent people here who can state what they believe with out Judging what others believe even though it may be diferent, This is how Scientists debate it.

However I can see How it could blow, Thats Just another scenario, now that we are aware of this maybe Respect for others points of view will rein, or at the very least be tolerated.



Love Omnaka

Well, actually, yes it is your brain. It's physical not spiritual that our brain can do things our conscious is not aware of.

Yes, but so are the rest of your bodily functions. Namely the circulatory system, that pumps blood to the muscles, and brings oxygen and nutrients to the muscles that keep this from happening when you are alive.
If the body had no spirit in it, and it's bodily funtions continued, this would not happen.
Again, no one knows for sure, and anyone who claims they do know should not be taken seriously.

Exactly. That is my point. This is why religion needs to question these things, because science will not. Science is only concerned with "how" can we do something, they never ask "should" they do it.

Because the muscles that keep the poop in relax when the brain stops sending the signal to hold. There's nothing mystical about it.



What about brain dead people, Omnaka? Are their spirits in their body or out? If only machines are breathing for you, has your soul left or is it stuck?



Are you taking Omnaka seriously? Omnaka claims that God told them about this spirit stuff, and Omnaka certainly has not posted any caveat indicating that they might not be right. So should we not take Omnaka seriously?

No I believe It could have been any earth bound spirit , which did not go through the proper channels to recieve a Body, thus after becoming Full conscious again, was sad at the fact that they did not do it right, acording to Their will which they wanted To be Apart of Gods will, Basically beating them self up for a poor decision,

Love Omnaka

Life is life no matter how it's created. People have been playing God ever since we started having babies since we're creating life and He's not magicing them out of dirt. I personally believe that every living thing(including plants) owns it's own spirit(or whatever your belief is). Let me give an example of my opinion. Lets say you are the spirit of any given creature and your computer is the body. The software is free will/conscious thought/emotions and the hardware is the physical limitations of any given living thing. Just as you can be as intelligent as you want, your computer can never exceed it's capacity. Just like every living thing has an equally strong spirit, but the bodies they inhabit can simply be incapable of operating above their limits.

Whats this we stuff Kimosabe, Freewill means everyone can make up their own mind, Or Are your beliefs The Moral Majority?

And wether you believe or not , wont change what I know.

Love Omnaka

What about the body rejecting pregnancy? Not just a miscarriage but the inclination of the female body to reject pregnancy after the birth of a first child, body sees as an invader and attacks.

you seem to completely through out body responses based on chemical reaction and lump it all together with God's will, which to you is unconditional love. If your God is all about unconditional Love then why is he causing so much pain with miscarriages to people that want babies?

also, if you have been to Heaven, please tell me why the animals there are so sad.

They are sad?

I don't know if I want to know this...

thats what omnaka said

so Dolly could have been a human spirit, possibly?

You also said that a clone could not live unless it had a spirit. And the only spirit that would go into a clone was either a sad one or an evil one. Would clones be kept in a jail of some sort until we found out how sad or evil they were, and whether or not they were safe to come out and be around people?


YOU say you wouln't harm a clone, but I believe others with fundamental beliefs would.

Isn't it possible, Omnaka, that a soul does not controll bodily functions?
Is it possible that "soul" is a human made concept to explain something we can not grasp, namely our self-awareness and self identification?

Isn't it, therefore, possible that cloning can and will work?

Did God tell you what happened with Dolly the sheep yet? Do you think Dolly had a sad person soul, an evil person soul, or a sad animal soul?

There are Many reasons why spirits are sad, one is They have not done , or learned what they came down to experence, leaving the spirit heart with regrets.

As for Miscariages THere are Many reasons also, Freewill plays a part for a baby going to incarnate in to a body where The host, or Mother, as in the Baby spirit may not like the Mother's spirit, or be compatible.

There are Many Mothers who have Had Abortions, Whome no baby spirit wants to become her Child,

Because Reincarnation is true, these Babies who remember The unloving Parent hating them enough to scrape them out of the womb, suck them out and throw them away, These Mothers are talked about in Baby heaven, by the Baby spirits who have experienced This Kind Of love. Thats just a couple reasons.

There Has been a change In heaven Regarding these children, I will not tell now, It is a chapter in my book.
But A miracle has occured For the better , of these spirit children.

Love Omnaka

"WE" is WE as the human race. Our scientists KNOW what makes the body perform involuntary functions. We can even make them stop by manipulating or damaging that part of the brain. You can make up your own mind about this, but if you choose to not accept modern medical science and instead base your ideas on a converstation with God that is contrary to medical science, you have to realize that your viewpoint is outside the realm of modern scientific knowledge.

Do I have the right to claim that a television is really a window into another realm? Well, modern science knows what a tv is and how television signals and receivers work. I have a right to believe differently, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm still wrong.

Not all are sad, It was a place Where I was to learn a lesson In a NDE.

I will post it On the Nde Thread soon.

Love Omnaka

Are you sure it was God?

Just asking.

I told you this post was about Humans and human clones, I did not ask about Dolly. CAN U HEAR ME NOW.

Because You have already Judged Me and My beliefs why Do you continue to ask me Questions?

State your Truth and leave me out of it.

Love Omnaka

The Gods clone and made us!
And your not Elohim so how would you know if the clones body would be doomed too failer?
He may put a spirit right in that clone just like he did us.

No doubt about, The One and only.

Love Omnaka

Please read The Opening Post, and some of my other replies, I never claimed To be God of this world, I state Clearly That Father Is God of this world along with Mother who is The Holy Spirit, Fathers wife My Mother.

Humans are not God, and taking short cuts will not produce any good thing.

Love Omnaka

So Heaven to you is not a place of eternal joy being directly in God's place surrounded by the place his Love originates...there is still sadness. This doesn't seem to hold to the rest of your ideals. Just an observation.

Why would God not send a compatable spirit baby to a mother? Why wouldn't the spirit know it wasn't compatable before pregnancy?

My mother had 5 abortions and she has 2 of us...Are out spirits gluttons for punishment then? And then why do so many parents that had abortions, also have children?

YOU said a clone could not live without a soul. But Dolly did live for 8 years.

So, how do you explain this?

You said something about an animal soul going into Dolly that was either sad, or an evil human soul, or a sad human soul. Or maybe souls don't identify as human or animal?

You made the statement that clones can't live without a soul. Dolly seems to refute this. Don't yell at me because your theory has hit a snag.

To see how you deal with the inconsistencies of your argument. I disagree with your assertion that cloning can't work. I disagree with your assertion that only a sad or evil spirit could make a clone survive (that's dangerous thinking....) and I disgaree with your assertion that a spirit or soul runs bodily functions. So does science.

I haven't gotten mad at you, why are you mad at me? Don't you think I have the right to debate this with you? I've not been diserespectfull or insulting at all.

So I'm going to keep asking questions until I understand your position fully, or until we run into something that you can't explain. Like Dolly the cloned sheep who lived for 8 years and then died of a common sheep disease.




This is YOUR thread!

Do I not have the right to ask questions of your theory? You don't like that? you want to come online and make an unscientific statement based on something you claim God told you, but then you expect that I "leave you out of it?"

No way.

This is far too interesting. I dont' meet many people who claim to have direct conversations with God where God explains things like souls and cloning and biology. Even if I don't beleive you, what an opportnity to explore human behavior this is!

Plus, it's a good exercise in rhetoric and debate.


I'm stuck on the idea that a clone doesn't get a soul, except for sad or evil ones that jump in at the opportunity. Why don't we remember life before we had bodies? Would the evil souls that jump into clones remember their previous lives? Do they get erased at birth?

Where does the soul come into the body? Is it in the whomb? If clone embreyos are implanted into a human whomb after cell division starts, why couldn't God put the soul in there?

Did God tell you he doesn't want to do that because we shoulnd't be cloning people?

You may claim anything you want, and believe what you want, as I do but Fishing For others to believe as you do by condemning what I say is not Cool in My book. Iam not looking For lobiest to support My views, and say if you do not believe me it is understandable.

I do not care what you are wrong about, What you believe and experience is yours, if you want to share what you believe, Feel free, I do not have to believe it, nor will I say Listen to this guy, Can you really believe this, He has no proof, or vwhat ever you said to start this side track a couple Post back.

You can only Judge your self, and what you believe, not someone elses.

State your truth is the name of THe game here.

Love Omnaka

Are antibiotics and modern medicine short cuts too? When someone has strep throat, should we not administer antibiotics, and instead just pray? If god gave us the knowledge to learn about antibiotics, should't we use them for good? And if God gave us the knowledge to learn about cloning, why shouldn't we use that for good too?



EXCELLENT questions, ravergirl. Do you remember why you chose or got assigned to your mother when you were a soul? Does anyone? Does God wipe that memory away?

Making claims that God told you clones will only survive if they have evil or sad spirits that jump into them is not cool in my book.

Well, that's certainly not true. We have a responisibility to determine what is true and what is false and what to believe.

You certainly have a right to believe whatever you want.

But I certainly have the right to judge that you are wrong and to beleive something else.




Ok. We don't even know if a soul exists. Dolly the cloned sheep existed for 8 years in good health before contracting a common sheep disease. A part of the brain controlls bodily functions, not a soul.

Denying my right to question your ideas is not cool in my book either.

And earlier, I didn't condemn what you think (although you forced me too now) I only asked questions that you couldn't answer, in order to push you to defend your belief and to learn more about it. Sorry you aren't comfortable with this.

There are Many levels of what we call Heaven, These levels can be over come, but Not all levels are Pure Joy, and not all are What many consider Hell either. Its like Not everything is Black and white There is Gray and all the colors inbetween. THe spirit itself decides which level it belongs.


I can not speak for all baby spirits, But many do not come before hand , And God does not make them, No spirit, Dead baby, or miscarriage.
The same reason Human clones wont work, What spirit wants to be a lab rat with out love?

God would not put a Baby spirit in a Mother who (THe Baby Spirit) has already experienced this sufferage and Pain, There must have been another willing to chance That your Mom was not going to do this again. Again freewill on the baby spirits part.

Love Omnaka

I love how elaborate this is getting...levels of heaven and hell, spirits with free will and a hierarchy of who gets chosen to live in a mother and all that. Sad or evil spirits that lurk on earth who will take the chance to jump into a clone, even an animal clone like Dolly the sheep. This is fascinating. I'm tempted to read Omnaka's book, no doubt it will be very colorfull and something to see.

My wife is 9 weeks pregnant..an uncertain time. if, GOD PLEASE FORBID, she miscarries, it will be because the spirit in the baby didn't like us or something like that?