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Ozi
i have a question, in the bible, when adam and eve are told by god not eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge, because it will kill them, why did god lie to them, Unlike satan, who tells them truth, that they will gain knowledge, which they do when they eat the fruit, they realise they are naked and cover up, then GOd comes in looking for them, and cant find adam hiding in bush. My question is why did god lie?, Is satan more truthful than God then? and what type of God cant find his creation hiding in a bush?

Thanks, i have asked these question to priests, scholars you name it, and never go any answer, besided some waffle, where they try and change meaning of words used etc, not knowing that i am also aware of the greek bible, the closest to the original.
Paranoid Android
QUOTE (momentarylapseofreason @ Feb 15 2008, 11:35 PM) *
GOD is such lean mean killing machine
Ah, thank you, MLOR. Though you didn't need to quote the entire passage for me, just the reference. But since you didn't provide the reference even, we'll have to make do.

From Joshua 10 then, the passage you quoted, I would point back to my original answer to this post. This was most definitely a fulfillment of the promises of Genesis 12:1-3. The Land which God had promised to Abraham was being given to the Israelites. However, there are a few more interesting points to draw from this passage. The most obvious is that Israel did not start this fight. Jerusalem at the time was not an Israelite city, and the King of Jerusalem chose to attack Gibeon because of the peace-treaty they had signed with Israel. And because of that treaty, Israel was obliged to break the siege, being allies with Gibeon. Which they did. After marching long distances, the Israelite army, led by Joshua, eventually got to Gibeon, broke the siege and then God made the rout complete.

This was not a bloodthirsty God waging war against others. This was Israel responding to the call of their allies to defend their land, and God protecting the nation to which he had made promises to all the way back in Genesis 12.

It's all in the context, MLOR. All the best,

~ Regards, PA
momentarylapseofreason
QUOTE (Bluefinger @ Feb 15 2008, 03:28 PM) *
When Katrina struck Louisiana, those that had clear warning, but stayed, suffered great loss. Or if a man smokes cigarettes knowing that not everyone has got lung cancer from it, should he still expect not to get lung cancer?

What I'm indicating is that the evidence that God supported the cause of Israel was as obvious as a nasty storm prediction and a warning of lung cancer for continuous smoking. The people that opposed Joshua heard of the miracles that God had done for the Israelites in Egypt and on the way to the Holy Land. They knew the consequences of resistance. And God even told the Israelites that if any provided safe passage, they would not be hurt.

So my question is, even though some people have resisted God and lived, should they still provoke Him by standing in the way of His plans?

God's plans were to bring the people into a well populated area to live in a particular way that would set them apart from any other nation and would set the LORD apart in their eyes from any other god they have known. Nations that passed through from Greece, Assyria, Rome, Egypt, Babylon, Sheba, Arabia, and Persia would hear about God's deeds regarding the Israelites. Thus would God's redemptive plan take motion throughout the entire earth. Ofcourse, the Israelites resisted that plan and paid for it for years. The LORD is a loving God, but standing in His way when He is moving forward will likely put on the ground or under it.



Do not stand in your loving father's path for you shall surely die !!

Yeah and what is so darn horrible about killing 42 children ?


2 Kings, 2:23-24.

23: And he (Elisha) went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24: And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them."


Nice guy& using the name of the lord, I see. Is it taken OUT OF CONTEXT ?
Paranoid Android
QUOTE (Ozi @ Feb 16 2008, 01:44 AM) *
i have a question, in the bible, when adam and eve are told by god not eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge, because it will kill them, why did god lie to them, Unlike satan, who tells them truth, that they will gain knowledge, which they do when they eat the fruit, they realise they are naked and cover up, then GOd comes in looking for them, and cant find adam hiding in bush. My question is why did god lie?, Is satan more truthful than God then? and what type of God cant find his creation hiding in a bush?

Thanks, i have asked these question to priests, scholars you name it, and never go any answer, besided some waffle, where they try and change meaning of words used etc, not knowing that i am also aware of the greek bible, the closest to the original.
Both God and the Serpent told the absolute truth, as far as I can see. God told them that if they ate the fruit they would die. The Bible makes it clear that the reason people die is because of sin (Romans 6:23, for example). Therefore before sin entered the world, there was no death. Adam and Eve were immortal. So by eating the fruit from the tree, Adam and Eve raised a barrier between themselves and God, and thus set in motion the cause of their own death, through sin. In similar vein, the Serpent told them that if they ate from the tree they would learn the knowledge of good and evil and in learning this knowledge become like God. This also came to pass.

It sounds to me like Adam and Eve were told the truth from both parties. That is the power of the devil. He's not in the habit of lying. He's in the habit of telling the truth, just not the whole truth.

Just a thought.

~ PA

momentarylapseofreason
QUOTE (Paranoid Android @ Feb 15 2008, 03:50 PM) *
Ah, thank you, MLOR. Though you didn't need to quote the entire passage for me, just the reference. But since you didn't provide the reference even, we'll have to make do.

From Joshua 10 then, the passage you quoted, I would point back to my original answer to this post. This was most definitely a fulfillment of the promises of Genesis 12:1-3. The Land which God had promised to Abraham was being given to the Israelites. However, there are a few more interesting points to draw from this passage. The most obvious is that Israel did not start this fight. Jerusalem at the time was not an Israelite city, and the King of Jerusalem chose to attack Gibeon because of the peace-treaty they had signed with Israel. And because of that treaty, Israel was obliged to break the siege, being allies with Gibeon. Which they did. After marching long distances, the Israelite army, led by Joshua, eventually got to Gibeon, broke the siege and then God made the rout complete.

This was not a bloodthirsty God waging war against others. This was Israel responding to the call of their allies to defend their land, and God protecting the nation to which he had made promises to all the way back in Genesis 12.

It's all in the context, MLOR. All the best,

~ Regards, PA


So did the earth stand still or not ? That is actually my question and if so why ?
Paranoid Android
QUOTE (momentarylapseofreason @ Feb 16 2008, 01:56 AM) *
Yeah and what is so darn horrible about killing 42 children ?


2 Kings, 2:23-24.

23: And he (Elisha) went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24: And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them."


Nice guy& using the name of the lord, I see. Is it taken OUT OF CONTEXT ?
Out of context????? It depends on what you are meaning by quoting this passage. God gave Elisha certain powers. These powers were given to him through the blessing of the Holy Spirit. When Elisha killed these children, he did so for his own reasons, not God's. That he happened to do so with the power God had given him does not imply that God sanctioned the act. Nowhere will you find a single passage in this whole story that says "And God looked on with approval, and did then reward Elisha for his actions in killing those children".

So.... is it taken out of context? You tell me!
Paranoid Android
QUOTE (momentarylapseofreason @ Feb 16 2008, 01:58 AM) *
So did the earth stand still or not ? That is actually my question and if so why ?
I answered that question in the post you quoted. Maybe it was not explicitly stated, so I'll state it in this post - either the earth stood still, or the sun stood still (either way, the result was the same). And it was done at God's order.

The rest of your answer (concerning the "why") you can find in that post. I can't state it any clearer than what I already have.
momentarylapseofreason
Alot of theists make this absurd condescending claim that their barbaric scriptures (alot of them are just this )need to be taken "in context" as if the rest of us are just not sophisticated enough to understand them.

The truth is that there is no context which justifies the atrocities in the Bible.

They'd like to believe in some imaginary context, so they can maintain their childhood fantasy or indocrination as not to answer the really "tough question"s about what is actually advocated in these scriptures.

What exactly is the context of God's command to kill the person who works on the Sabbath for example ? Old law/new law is a poor poor excuse

How are we taking this passage out of context, if we interpret it literally as God's command ?

If we are taking it out of literary context, then the story is in fact a lie ? Or maybe it never happened, and there is no reason to take any other passage in the "divinely inspired" Bible literally either such as Jesus rising from the dead.

If we are taking it out of "historical" context> then god must have thought at some point in the past that it was good and proper and moral >was it a moral to kill someone working on the Sabbath>but yet that command no longer applies today ?? Hmm......?

This is nothing but relativism in a moral sense> which in my opinion is directly contradictory with the idea of a perfect God !!
momentarylapseofreason
QUOTE (Paranoid Android @ Feb 15 2008, 04:02 PM) *
Out of context????? It depends on what you are meaning by quoting this passage. God gave Elisha certain powers. These powers were given to him through the blessing of the Holy Spirit. When Elisha killed these children, he did so for his own reasons, not God's. That he happened to do so with the power God had given him does not imply that God sanctioned the act. Nowhere will you find a single passage in this whole story that says "And God looked on with approval, and did then reward Elisha for his actions in killing those children".

So.... is it taken out of context? You tell me!


So Elisha got no punishment ? It's clear that god punishes everyone else but yet don't you feel a good "smiting" was well deserved for Elisha ? Don't you feel a powerful "smiting" may have been appropriate in this story as an example for killing innocent children ? LMAO !! NOT !! mad.gif
Paranoid Android
QUOTE (momentarylapseofreason @ Feb 16 2008, 02:14 AM) *
Alot of theists make this absurd condescending claim that their barbaric scriptures (alot of them are just this )need to be taken "in context" as if the rest of us are just not sophisticated enough to understand them.
And a lot of non-Christians make absurd and condescending claims about the Bible that just are not supported by context. They seem to think that context is irrelevant when reading the Bible, yet they are quite happy to use their reason and logic to get the context of a newspaper article. They then read a passage from a poetic book from the Bible and absurdly suggest that it should be take as literally as the rest of the Bible or else the Christian is just "cherry-picking".

Go figure.
Paranoid Android
QUOTE (momentarylapseofreason @ Feb 16 2008, 02:22 AM) *
So Elisha got no punishment ? It's clear that god punishes everyone else but yet don't you feel a good "smiting" was well deserved for Elisha ? Don't you feel a powerful "smiting" may have been appropriate in this story as an example for killing innocent children ? LMAO !! NOT !! mad.gif
But Elisha had a task to do. God had granted a task for Elisha to accomplish, and though Elisha first used that power for wrong motives (killing children because they laughed at him) that did not negate the work that Elisha was asked to do. Contrary to your opinion, God did not go around smiting everyone that coughed in the wrong direction. God does not smite every single person who commits an act of evil. But they will be judged according to what they have done.

Referring to my last point about refusal to see context - this is a case-in-point.
Paranoid Android
Sorry for a third response in a row, but MLOR, I just have one question for you now - is your purpose for posting on this thread to learn more about the Bible (asking questions you genuinely want answers for), or is it a concerted attempt by you to try and disprove the Bible? Judging by the tone of the posts you have made in recent times, I would surmise the latter. Perhaps you should reconsider your motives for posting here in this thread. Just a thought....

~ Paranoid Android
momentarylapseofreason
QUOTE (Paranoid Android @ Feb 15 2008, 04:39 PM) *
And a lot of non-Christians make absurd and condescending claims about the Bible that just are not supported by context. They seem to think that context is irrelevant when reading the Bible, yet they are quite happy to use their reason and logic to get the context of a newspaper article. They then read a passage from a poetic book from the Bible and absurdly suggest that it should be take as literally as the rest of the Bible or else the Christian is just "cherry-picking".

Go figure.


Oh come on PA, alot of us have read the bible from front to back. Why do you think so many religious people have changed to Atheism,Deism or Agnosticism ? Even biblical scholars /ministers ? It's the eye wear you choose to wear while reading.

Why do you think there are so many different ways Christians interpret these scriptures ?

There is NO WAY I can remember where these scriptures are (which obviously you can) but I never have forgotten them.

The answers have always been for the most part unsatisfactory and these coming from ministers and people very knowledgeable of the bible.

I would have to be hypnotised to accept them as the word of god not alone the truth.

Maybe you are correct but I myself see very little moral value in these scriptures and I have tried so hard.
momentarylapseofreason
QUOTE (Paranoid Android @ Feb 15 2008, 04:47 PM) *
Sorry for a third response in a row, but MLOR, I just have one question for you now - is your purpose for posting on this thread to learn more about the Bible (asking questions you genuinely want answers for), or is it a concerted attempt by you to try and disprove the Bible? Judging by the tone of the posts you have made in recent times, I would surmise the latter. Perhaps you should reconsider your motives for posting here in this thread. Just a thought....

~ Paranoid Android


Because I'm still in hope of getting a satisfactory DIRECT ANSWER.

For instance with Elisha and the death of 42 children by bears.

Why would god give powers to a LOON like this ? After all he/god knows ALL ahead of time ?

What is the MORAL of this story ?

Why is a jerk like Elisha worthy of powers ? Let me guess Elisha had free will>NOT A GOOD MIX>it's like god giving special gifts to Charles Manson
sandee
QUOTE (Paranoid Android @ Feb 15 2008, 10:47 AM) *
Sorry for a third response in a row, but MLOR, I just have one question for you now - is your purpose for posting on this thread to learn more about the Bible (asking questions you genuinely want answers for), or is it a concerted attempt by you to try and disprove the Bible? Judging by the tone of the posts you have made in recent times, I would surmise the latter. Perhaps you should reconsider your motives for posting here in this thread. Just a thought....

~ Paranoid Android


I was thinking the same thing an its not just MLOR, there are some here who do not believe the bible to be God's word but will quickly quote the scriptures of the bible to make their point in a post. Also those who do not wish to learn about the bible or its meanings they just want to try an prove it wrong continually. Sorry but it does get old to have to keep hearing the same argument an not learn from it, if one is just out to prove something wrong and does not learn on the way its a waste of everyone's time.
Always a pleasure
momentarylapseofreason
QUOTE (sandee @ Feb 15 2008, 05:04 PM) *
I was thinking the same thing an its not just MLOR, there are some here who do not believe the bible to be God's word but will quickly quote the scriptures of the bible to make their point in a post. Also those who do not wish to learn about the bible or its meanings they just want to try an prove it wrong continually. Sorry but it does get old to have to keep hearing the same argument an not learn from it, if one is just out to prove something wrong and does not learn on the way its a waste of everyone's time.
Always a pleasure



Yes, but what if the answers are unsatisfactory ? I feel like I'm in church again or at a bible study. The people got angry with me.

Alot of the answers/apologetics don't make sense. Once in a while they do ?

Or should I quit trying to find the logic and reason in these stories ?


Because IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE god's word is what makes it all the more unsatisfactory.

You know what, I just noticed I'm in the wrong section>we need to do this in the spirit vs. skeptic part, sorry.
Paranoid Android
QUOTE (momentarylapseofreason @ Feb 16 2008, 03:02 AM) *
Because I'm still in hope of getting a satisfactory DIRECT ANSWER.
Actually, MLOR, I would submit that the ONLY answer you would accept would be something like "Well, now that you mention it, God wouldn't give powers to a loon like this". Can you honestly give me a single answer other than this that you would accept?

You aren't looking for a satisfactory direct answer. You are looking for us to acknowledge that you are right (or at the least, that the Bible is wrong). So off you pop onto a "Bible Questions" thread to try and prove a point about the (in your opinion) idiocy of the Bible.
momentarylapseofreason
QUOTE (Paranoid Android @ Feb 15 2008, 05:32 PM) *
Actually, MLOR, I would submit that the ONLY answer you would accept would be something like "Well, now that you mention it, God wouldn't give powers to a loon like this". Can you honestly give me a single answer other than this that you would accept?

You aren't looking for a satisfactory direct answer. You are looking for us to acknowledge that you are right (or at the least, that the Bible is wrong). So off you pop onto a "Bible Questions" thread to try and prove a point about the (in your opinion) idiocy of the Bible.


Well since you asked..........hey FREE air time !!


I'm trying to show that if god exists that he can't/wouldn't be that ignorant, that's all.

It's painfully obvious that these are stories of/written by some ignorant men.

Kids/people should be aware of the "missing parts" namely reason, compassion and logic

Now please go on> and I'll go hide on the other side

This was the wrong place and I apologize.

I need to watch where I am before I get all emotional and respond and disrupt the thread
sandee
QUOTE (momentarylapseofreason @ Feb 15 2008, 11:41 AM) *
Well since you asked..........hey FREE air time !!


I'm trying to show that if god exists that he can't/wouldn't be that ignorant, that's all.

It's painfully obvious that these are stories of/written by some ignorant men.

Kids/people should be aware of the "missing parts" namely reason, compassion and logic

Now please go on> and I'll go hide on the other side

This was the wrong place and I apologize.

I need to watch where I am before I get all emotional and respond and disrupt the thread


So you believe its your job to try and sway the kids/people from believing in what THEY find to be truth? Do you honestly think you could get someone who believes in God an his word, the bible to leave their beliefs behind because you find it without reason ignorant without compassion and logic?
momentarylapseofreason
QUOTE (sandee @ Feb 15 2008, 05:48 PM) *
So you believe its your job to try and sway the kids/people from believing in what THEY find to be truth? Do you honestly think you could get someone who believes in God an his word, the bible to leave their beliefs behind because you find it without reason ignorant without compassion and logic?


They will choose their own truth and their own path.

They may switch their path a few times on the way .

They will decide this on their own. No one forces anyone into anything.

So many have.... yes.gif
momentarylapseofreason
QUOTE (momentarylapseofreason @ Feb 15 2008, 06:03 PM) *
They will choose their own truth and their own path.

They may switch their path a few times on the way .

They will decide this on their own. No one forces anyone into anything.

So many have.... yes.gif


And I agree with you MLOR thumbsup.gif


laugh.gif
tongue.gif
Bluefinger
QUOTE (momentarylapseofreason @ Feb 15 2008, 09:56 AM) *
Oh come on PA, alot of us have read the bible from front to back. Why do you think so many religious people have changed to Atheism,Deism or Agnosticism ? Even biblical scholars /ministers ? It's the eye wear you choose to wear while reading.

Why do you think there are so many different ways Christians interpret these scriptures ?

There is NO WAY I can remember where these scriptures are (which obviously you can) but I never have forgotten them.

The answers have always been for the most part unsatisfactory and these coming from ministers and people very knowledgeable of the bible.

I would have to be hypnotised to accept them as the word of god not alone the truth.

Maybe you are correct but I myself see very little moral value in these scriptures and I have tried so hard.


I think religious people who switch to atheism got to know the Bible far better than they got to know their God. As bold as that may sound, I stand by it firmly.

The authors of the books of the Bible had their own personal experiences with God and put it in their own words often times. I don't think that it is expected that we live out their same experiences with God, but that we let God be whatever He wants to be with us, just as He was with the authors of the books of the Bible. God said, "I AM THAT I AM." This means that God will be whatever He wants to be whenever He wants to be it, however He wants to be it and to any extent that He wants to go without our say so or interpretation.

That is why God wants a personal relationship with everyone of us, though we be many: Because every one of us has an individual choice that should not be forced or convinced. Either you believe or you don't.
Bluefinger
QUOTE (momentarylapseofreason @ Feb 15 2008, 08:56 AM) *
Do not stand in your loving father's path for you shall surely die !!

Yeah and what is so darn horrible about killing 42 children ?


2 Kings, 2:23-24.

23: And he (Elisha) went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24: And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them."


Nice guy& using the name of the lord, I see. Is it taken OUT OF CONTEXT ?


You misinterpreted what I am saying. If I had a child and I had big hopes for him, do you think I would let you get in the way of that? Heck no! I would want my child to be smart, successful, and contribute a great amount of good to society.

Do you think that:

After the ten plagues of Egypt
After the parting of the Red Sea
After the parting of the Jordan
After the fall of the walls of Jericho
After the slaying of Goliath
After the stand-off of Mount Carmel
After the children mocked God's prophet and mere mauled by bears
After the destruction of the whole Assyrian army
After the rescuing of three men from a furnace
After the deliverance of a man from a pit of lions
After the rebellion of the Maccabees and success against an entire kingdom
After the miracles performed by Christ
After the resurrection of Christ
After the miracles performed by the Apostles

That you would think people would stop getting in God's way. There is one truth that you will ultimately have to accept: Either follow, lead, or get out of the way. God is doing what He wants, and has given ample warning and suggestion to you, me, and all of humanity. You know the stories, you've heard the rumors; Christ is coming.
norwood1026
QUOTE (Paranoid Android @ Feb 15 2008, 04:39 PM) *
And a lot of non-Christians make absurd and condescending claims about the Bible that just are not supported by context. They seem to think that context is irrelevant when reading the Bible, yet they are quite happy to use their reason and logic to get the context of a newspaper article. They then read a passage from a poetic book from the Bible and absurdly suggest that it should be take as literally as the rest of the Bible or else the Christian is just "cherry-picking".
Go figure.




Thats what a preacher does intresting....
norwood1026
QUOTE (Bluefinger @ Feb 16 2008, 03:25 PM) *
I think religious people who switch to atheism got to know the Bible far better than they got to know their God. As bold as that may sound, I stand by it firmly.
The authors of the books of the Bible had their own personal experiences with God and put it in their own words often times. I don't think that it is expected that we live out their same experiences with God, but that we let God be whatever He wants to be with us, just as He was with the authors of the books of the Bible. God said, "I AM THAT I AM." This means that God will be whatever He wants to be whenever He wants to be it, however He wants to be it and to any extent that He wants to go without our say so or interpretation.
That is why God wants a personal relationship with everyone of us, though we be many: Because every one of us has an individual choice that should not be forced or convinced. Either you believe or you don't.



Spam,spam,spam,spam,spam,spam! tongue.gif
sandee
QUOTE (momentarylapseofreason @ Feb 16 2008, 02:33 AM) *
And I agree with you MLOR thumbsup.gif


laugh.gif
tongue.gif


No one else agreed with you so you feel the need to agree with yourself?
momentarylapseofreason
QUOTE (sandee @ Feb 16 2008, 07:00 PM) *
No one else agreed with you so you feel the need to agree with yourself?


Hey, trade in your Adam's rib for a funny bone will ya ? Or grow an extra one tongue.gif


Oh I forgot.............always a pleasure.
sandee
QUOTE (momentarylapseofreason @ Feb 16 2008, 02:00 PM) *
Hey, trade in your Adam's rib for a funny bone will ya ? Or grow an extra one tongue.gif


Oh I forgot.............always a pleasure.


I do have a sense of humor and don't need ''to grow another funny bone "' as i do already have one . I only tend to find humorous things funny though.
How weird is that?
About the post where you were finding faith humouruos, I can't find it now , I was sick when I did see it and did not feel up to posting at that time.
Faith is found in many things MLOre, not just religion. What about the mothers who sit by their sick childs hospital beds and have faith that their child will get well, or the spouses and children having faith that their loved ones will return safe from Iran? You say you have no faith and often joke about it here. The power of faith is like the mystery of love. You know it is there, but you cannot see it. You feel it working and guiding you, but like the air that you breathe to sustain your life, it is not visible. Only the results of its presence prove its existence.When the power of faith is placed into action, the amount of work that we can accomplish becomes greater and greater, and whatever our purpose may be, we will positively scale the heights.
The power of our faith changes how we perceive the value of our abilities. If our belief in our capabilities is strong, we know that our ability will allow us to accomplish whatever we decide to undertake.
We think of faith as having the ability to move mountains (which it can), but the power of faith is as subtle as it is dynamic. The power of faith is relative to how much one truly believes something is possible. If you truly believe with every fiber of your being that you can do something, your mind will find a way to accomplish it.


The power of faith is what miracles are made of. The power of faith is not seen in spectacular healing miracles or in getting people to laugh or make animal noises. It is seen in the everyday accomplishments of people who do things that no one expects them to be able to accomplish. However, they have so much faith in their capabilities that they confound their critics and accomplish something that seems to be impossible, like the blind man who climbed Mount Everest and the young university lad who was allowed to play the last few minutes of a basketball game and scored 27 points.

You too can do anything that you want to do if you develop faith in yourself. Do not let anyone tell you that you cannot and do not doubt yourself for a minute

Always a pleasure
Karlis
QUOTE (momentarylapseofreason @ Feb 16 2008, 01:56 AM) *
Do not stand in your loving father's path for you shall surely die !!

Yeah and what is so darn horrible about killing 42 children ?


2 Kings, 2:23-24.

23: And he (Elisha) went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24: And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them."


Nice guy& using the name of the lord, I see. Is it taken OUT OF CONTEXT ?


Hello MLOR – Maybe I can give you an answer as to why the 42 children were killed, though you probably will not agree with my reasoning. After all, such a mass killing of children does sound quite barbaric.

So, where to begin my response? Perhaps Bethel might be a good start. Bethel was a holy place. The name Bethel means “the house of God”. It was the place where Jacob had his vision of the ladder to heaven, just to mention a few points.

But times changed. When the tribes of Israel split apart, Jeroboam had one of the two golden calves placed at Bethel to be worshiped there by the Northern ten tribes. Bethel was a place of idolatry. There was a school for prophets at Bethel, and the idol-worshiping inhabitants of Bethel despised them.

So, let’s look at the particular time when Elisha went through Bethel. I’ll copy-paste the following from http://ed.asisaid.com/bible/bibhist/bibhist76.html

“… As Elisha began a return circuit, heading toward the school at Bethel, he was accosted by some young men of Bethel. Keep in mind this is as much politics as religion. Elisha was in their eyes a reactionary partisan trying to draw the Kingdom of Israel back under the House of David. Everyone forgot that Jehovah Himself had called for the division of the nation, and it was loyalty to Himself that was at issue. … … As best we can tell, they [the children] are taunting him [Elisha] about Elijah's translation. They encourage him, too, to disappear into the heavens ("go up") so that the land may be rid of him. At the same time, they ridiculed his balding head. Most baldness then was the result of leprosy, so they were implying he was unfit to enter the city. Their behavior was deplorable, beyond rudeness to the point of cursing him, as it were. He turned and pronounced God's curse on their sin …”

MLOR, you asked: “Yeah and what is so darn horrible about killing 42 children?”

Moderator Paranoid Android replied to you that, “Elisha first used that power for wrong motives (killing children because they laughed at him)”. I believe that PA was wrong on at least two counts in making that assumption.

These children were mocking God by calling out to Elisha, “Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head”. This, I think, was a mockery twice over. In the first place, they were mocking the taking of Elijah up into the air by God. Secondly, they may have been mocking God by implying that Elisha’s baldness was caused by leprosy – that would have been about as denigrating an insult as one could make about a prophet of God. In any case, it seems that mocking a man for his baldness was in extremely poor taste, and an insult, in those days and in that culture.

Now, did Elisha cause the death of the children? No. Elisha, “cursed them in the name of the Lord”. God then caused bears to kill the children. To me it appears a clear-cut case of swift execution of justice by God; and an object lesson to Bethel’s idol-worshiping inhabitants.

Mocking God’s prophets was a big mistake. Notice how God punished Israel for mocking His prophets: “… they mocked the messengers of God and despised His words, and ill-treated His prophets until the wrath of Jehovah arose against His people …” (2Ch 36:16). That may sound very harsh and unfair to many people, but that is how God has decreed matters.

To sum up:
God was being blasphemed. Elisha calls down a curse upon the blasphemers. God metes out punishment – harsh as that punishment was.

MLOR, you also asked: “What is the MORAL of this story?”

One conclusion could be that it is unwise to mock God. One could also conclude that it is the parents who are responsible for bringing up their children in a certain manner. One could also conclude that children learn from the examples set by their parents, and then have to wear the consequences.
REBEL
Question:

Why are there so many contradictions in the Good Book?...


And no, I don't buy into 'A Matter of Definition and Analysis/A Matter of Translation and Context' that christians/catholics use so well bit btw...

momentarylapseofreason
QUOTE (Karlis @ Feb 17 2008, 01:51 AM) *
Hello MLOR – Maybe I can give you an answer as to why the 42 children were killed, though you probably will not agree with my reasoning. After all, such a mass killing of children does sound quite barbaric.

So, where to begin my response? Perhaps Bethel might be a good start. Bethel was a holy place. The name Bethel means “the house of God”. It was the place where Jacob had his vision of the ladder to heaven, just to mention a few points.

But times changed. When the tribes of Israel split apart, Jeroboam had one of the two golden calves placed at Bethel to be worshiped there by the Northern ten tribes. Bethel was a place of idolatry. There was a school for prophets at Bethel, and the idol-worshiping inhabitants of Bethel despised them.

So, let’s look at the particular time when Elisha went through Bethel. I’ll copy-paste the following from http://ed.asisaid.com/bible/bibhist/bibhist76.html

“… As Elisha began a return circuit, heading toward the school at Bethel, he was accosted by some young men of Bethel. Keep in mind this is as much politics as religion. Elisha was in their eyes a reactionary partisan trying to draw the Kingdom of Israel back under the House of David. Everyone forgot that Jehovah Himself had called for the division of the nation, and it was loyalty to Himself that was at issue. … … As best we can tell, they [the children] are taunting him [Elisha] about Elijah's translation. They encourage him, too, to disappear into the heavens ("go up") so that the land may be rid of him. At the same time, they ridiculed his balding head. Most baldness then was the result of leprosy, so they were implying he was unfit to enter the city. Their behavior was deplorable, beyond rudeness to the point of cursing him, as it were. He turned and pronounced God's curse on their sin …”

MLOR, you asked: “Yeah and what is so darn horrible about killing 42 children?”

Moderator Paranoid Android replied to you that, “Elisha first used that power for wrong motives (killing children because they laughed at him)”. I believe that PA was wrong on at least two counts in making that assumption.

These children were mocking God by calling out to Elisha, “Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head”. This, I think, was a mockery twice over. In the first place, they were mocking the taking of Elijah up into the air by God. Secondly, they may have been mocking God by implying that Elisha’s baldness was caused by leprosy – that would have been about as denigrating an insult as one could make about a prophet of God. In any case, it seems that mocking a man for his baldness was in extremely poor taste, and an insult, in those days and in that culture.

Now, did Elisha cause the death of the children? No. Elisha, “cursed them in the name of the Lord”. God then caused bears to kill the children. To me it appears a clear-cut case of swift execution of justice by God; and an object lesson to Bethel’s idol-worshiping inhabitants.

Mocking God’s prophets was a big mistake. Notice how God punished Israel for mocking His prophets: “… they mocked the messengers of God and despised His words, and ill-treated His prophets until the wrath of Jehovah arose against His people …” (2Ch 36:16). That may sound very harsh and unfair to many people, but that is how God has decreed matters.

To sum up:
God was being blasphemed. Elisha calls down a curse upon the blasphemers. God metes out punishment – harsh as that punishment was.

MLOR, you also asked: “What is the MORAL of this story?”

One conclusion could be that it is unwise to mock God. One could also conclude that it is the parents who are responsible for bringing up their children in a certain manner. One could also conclude that children learn from the examples set by their parents, and then have to wear the consequences.



Well that's truly DISTURBING. ohmy.gif But now I feel ALL better. wub.gif



Karlis by the way> thanks for making the effort anyways.

As you probably figured, the answers do not satisfy intellectually, nor do they give me emotional comfort. I guess it's just not my cuppa tea/spirituality. It's just not made for me or I'm not made for it.

linked-image
el gato negro
1. Who was Enoch? Any information why his book wasn't included with the bible compilation of 331 AD?

2. Aren't Christians just Jews who believe Jesus Christ was their messiah? By creating a separate sect doesn't that make it a form of idolatry?

Apostle
QUOTE (REBEL @ Feb 16 2008, 07:10 PM) *
Question:

Why are there so many contradictions in the Good Book?...


And no, I don't buy into 'A Matter of Definition and Analysis/A Matter of Translation and Context' that christians/catholics use so well bit btw...

I wouldn't doubt that there are some seemingly contradictory statement, though usually they can be understood with study or are just misconceptions (and many that I've heard are just people misunderstanding). If you cite specific ones, I'll try and help out. Cite as many as you want and I'll tackle them one at a time. Thanks,
~Apostle
Apostle
QUOTE (Ozi @ Feb 15 2008, 08:44 AM) *
i have a question, in the bible, when adam and eve are told by god not eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge, because it will kill them, why did god lie to them, Unlike satan, who tells them truth, that they will gain knowledge, which they do when they eat the fruit, they realise they are naked and cover up, then GOd comes in looking for them, and cant find adam hiding in bush. My question is why did god lie?, Is satan more truthful than God then? and what type of God cant find his creation hiding in a bush?

Thanks, i have asked these question to priests, scholars you name it, and never go any answer, besided some waffle, where they try and change meaning of words used etc, not knowing that i am also aware of the greek bible, the closest to the original.

Good question. But here God does not lie; the devil is the liar, always. Let's look at the Scripture.
Genesis 3:1
"Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, 'Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?'"

The first thing the Devil did was cast doubt into Eve's mind. He wanted her to doubt the true word of God. After Eve answers with a yes because we will die if we do, the Devil says in 3:4
"'You will not surely die,' the serpent said to the woman. 5 'For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.'"

Clearly, Adam and Eve did not become like God. In 2:6 it says,
"When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it."

She equated sin to wisdom. Gaining the knowledge of evil (or sin) is not wisdom. When you skip ahead to the New Testament, Jesus says in Matthew 5:8
"Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God."

By disobeying God, Adam and Eve were contaminated with sin. They would no longer see God. They didn't gain any knowledge, and I'm sure that both of them were very intelligent anyways. They only thing they gained was death and sin and everything that comes with it (sickness, poverty, hurt, etc...) The day that they ate the apple they did in fact die spiritually. They were disconnected from God. They couldn't be with God in the same way; they couldn't even see his face anymore because they would have died (Exodus 33:20). They spiritually died and had to continue on with animal sacrifices and obeying the commandments of God to live spiritually; and God had to prepare the way to send his Son, Jesus to die to us so that we may live eternally. Also, they were given over to physical decay and eventually death, where as before they would have lived forever.
~Apostle



TooFarGone
QUOTE (REBEL @ Feb 16 2008, 09:40 PM) *
Question:

Why are there so many contradictions in the Good Book?...


And no, I don't buy into 'A Matter of Definition and Analysis/A Matter of Translation and Context' that christians/catholics use so well bit btw...


Contradiction is hard to avoid in a book that was written over a few centuries by different authors, in different languages, only to be translated into yet another language by another author.


The Bible = An alright book with horrible editing.
REBEL
QUOTE (Apostle @ Feb 17 2008, 02:39 PM) *
I wouldn't doubt that there are some seemingly contradictory statement, though usually they can be understood with study or are just misconceptions (and many that I've heard are just people misunderstanding). If you cite specific ones, I'll try and help out. Cite as many as you want and I'll tackle them one at a time. Thanks,
~Apostle


I normally don't post in the religious threads but it's Sunday here, so hey what the hell. lol!

Heres but a few of many, but starting of with the 3 most common of all...



How many gods are there?
Deut. 6:4 The Lord or God is one Lord.
Gen. 1:26 And God said, let us make man in our image.(Gen. 3:22; I John 5:7)


Is God good or evil?
Psa. 145:9. The Lord is good to all. (Deut. 32:4; James 1:13)
Is. 45:7 I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things. (Lam 3:38; Jer. 18:11; Ezek. 20:25)


Should we kill?
Ex. 20:13 Thou shalt not commit murder.
Ex. 32:27 Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, put every man his sword by his side...and slay every man his brother...companion..neighbor.(See also 1 Sam. 6:19; 15:2,3; Num. 15:36)


Is God Peaceable?
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you. (Luke 2:14; Acts 10:36)
Matt. 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth, I came not to send peace, but a sword. (Matt. 10:35-37; Luke 22:36)


Has anyone seen God?
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at anytime. (Ex 33:20; Tim. 6:16; John 6:46; I John 4:12)
Gen. 32:30 For I have seen god face to face. (Ex. 33:11, 23; Is. 6:1; Job 42:5)


Biblical Contradictions

Biblical Contradictions 2
Bluefinger
QUOTE (REBEL @ Feb 17 2008, 12:05 AM) *
I normally don't post in the religious threads but it's Sunday here, so hey what the hell. lol!

Heres but a few of many, but starting of with the 3 most common of all...



How many gods are there?
Deut. 6:4 The Lord or God is one Lord.
Gen. 1:26 And God said, let us make man in our image.(Gen. 3:22; I John 5:7)


Is God good or evil?
Psa. 145:9. The Lord is good to all. (Deut. 32:4; James 1:13)
Is. 45:7 I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things. (Lam 3:38; Jer. 18:11; Ezek. 20:25)


Should we kill?
Ex. 20:13 Thou shalt not commit murder.
Ex. 32:27 Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, put every man his sword by his side...and slay every man his brother...companion..neighbor.(See also 1 Sam. 6:19; 15:2,3; Num. 15:36)


Is God Peaceable?
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you. (Luke 2:14; Acts 10:36)
Matt. 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth, I came not to send peace, but a sword. (Matt. 10:35-37; Luke 22:36)


Has anyone seen God?
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at anytime. (Ex 33:20; Tim. 6:16; John 6:46; I John 4:12)
Gen. 32:30 For I have seen god face to face. (Ex. 33:11, 23; Is. 6:1; Job 42:5)


Biblical Contradictions

Biblical Contradictions 2


Now, tell me who these verses were directed toward and why. You'll find that they have nothing to do with the other. I think people make God out to what they think or imagine Him to be. Bogus attitude, IMO.
REBEL
QUOTE (Bluefinger @ Feb 17 2008, 05:40 PM) *
Now, tell me who these verses were directed toward and why. You'll find that they have nothing to do with the other. I think people make God out to what they think or imagine Him to be. Bogus attitude, IMO.

They're directed to Apostle in answer to my original question in order for her to try and explain away some and or if not all the biblical contradictions...



err, 'In your opinion', who or rather ''whom'' do you think we should make him out to be?
momentarylapseofreason
QUOTE (sandee @ Feb 17 2008, 01:47 AM) *
I do have a sense of humor and don't need ''to grow another funny bone "' as i do already have one . I only tend to find humorous things funny though.
How weird is that?
About the post where you were finding faith humouruos, I can't find it now , I was sick when I did see it and did not feel up to posting at that time.
Faith is found in many things MLOre, not just religion. What about the mothers who sit by their sick childs hospital beds and have faith that their child will get well, or the spouses and children having faith that their loved ones will return safe from Iran? You say you have no faith and often joke about it here. The power of faith is like the mystery of love. You know it is there, but you cannot see it. You feel it working and guiding you, but like the air that you breathe to sustain your life, it is not visible. Only the results of its presence prove its existence.When the power of faith is placed into action, the amount of work that we can accomplish becomes greater and greater, and whatever our purpose may be, we will positively scale the heights.
The power of our faith changes how we perceive the value of our abilities. If our belief in our capabilities is strong, we know that our ability will allow us to accomplish whatever we decide to undertake.
We think of faith as having the ability to move mountains (which it can), but the power of faith is as subtle as it is dynamic. The power of faith is relative to how much one truly believes something is possible. If you truly believe with every fiber of your being that you can do something, your mind will find a way to accomplish it.


The power of faith is what miracles are made of. The power of faith is not seen in spectacular healing miracles or in getting people to laugh or make animal noises. It is seen in the everyday accomplishments of people who do things that no one expects them to be able to accomplish. However, they have so much faith in their capabilities that they confound their critics and accomplish something that seems to be impossible, like the blind man who climbed Mount Everest and the young university lad who was allowed to play the last few minutes of a basketball game and scored 27 points.

You too can do anything that you want to do if you develop faith in yourself. Do not let anyone tell you that you cannot and do not doubt yourself for a minute

Always a pleasure



You call it faith and I call it hope. Life is what you make it. I feel it may be the luck of the draw. Dunno

Many good things happen to unbelievers too (without prayer). I see no difference in a believer's life as far as luck or fate goes (not in this life).

We heathens have just as many "lucky hits".

Being an Agnostic I will pray, I'm just not sure if someone is listening.
Bluefinger
QUOTE (momentarylapseofreason @ Feb 17 2008, 03:43 AM) *
You call it faith and I call it hope. Life is what you make it. I feel it may be the luck of the draw. Dunno

Many good things happen to unbelievers too (without prayer). I see no difference in a believer's life as far as luck or fate goes (not in this life).

We heathens have just as many "lucky hits".

Being an Agnostic I will pray, I'm just not sure if someone is listening.


Well, I pray that God will reveal Himself to you and convince you Himself.
momentarylapseofreason
QUOTE (Bluefinger @ Feb 17 2008, 04:21 PM) *
Well, I pray that God will reveal Himself to you and convince you Himself.


That's very nice thank you Bluefinger thumbsup.gif It's a kind gesture

I can tell by your posts that you really care and it's appreciated
Paranoid Android
QUOTE (REBEL @ Feb 17 2008, 05:05 PM) *
I normally don't post in the religious threads but it's Sunday here, so hey what the hell. lol!

Heres but a few of many, but starting of with the 3 most common of all...



How many gods are there?
Deut. 6:4 The Lord or God is one Lord.
Gen. 1:26 And God said, let us make man in our image.(Gen. 3:22; I John 5:7)


Is God good or evil?
Psa. 145:9. The Lord is good to all. (Deut. 32:4; James 1:13)
Is. 45:7 I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things. (Lam 3:38; Jer. 18:11; Ezek. 20:25)


Should we kill?
Ex. 20:13 Thou shalt not commit murder.
Ex. 32:27 Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, put every man his sword by his side...and slay every man his brother...companion..neighbor.(See also 1 Sam. 6:19; 15:2,3; Num. 15:36)


Is God Peaceable?
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you. (Luke 2:14; Acts 10:36)
Matt. 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth, I came not to send peace, but a sword. (Matt. 10:35-37; Luke 22:36)


Has anyone seen God?
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at anytime. (Ex 33:20; Tim. 6:16; John 6:46; I John 4:12)
Gen. 32:30 For I have seen god face to face. (Ex. 33:11, 23; Is. 6:1; Job 42:5)


Biblical Contradictions

Biblical Contradictions 2
Hi REBEL, being that it is 3am here, I haven't actually looked at the links tonight. I will in detail tomorrow sometime. In the meantime, I would submit the likelihood that these quotes may have an inkling of truth. It has been my experience that in long lists of "Bible contradictions" - particularly those found on the net - there is a little truth to some of it. However, the lists shoot themselves in the foot by including passages which are not just ambiguous but completely and totally incorrect when taken in context. It's sad for them that they think quantity is worth more than quality, but with their agenda of trying to prove the Bible wrong, they have either 1- let themselves be blinded to the inaccuracy of their reporting, or 2- more likely, barely read the Bible but used a search engine and highlighted passages that appeared to be contradictions but without ever reading the context to be sure.

It's said, because to be sure, because I know there are passages in teh Bible that are ambiguous. I know there are parts that even seem to be contradictory. Yet when a site posts passage after passage that does not gel contextually, they lose all credibility.

So rather than spend my valuable time answering the dozens of passages from a link that likely took minutes to google, may I suggest a challenge? Of the literally dozens of passages quoted within these two links, if I can show you that..... let's say 5 of the contradictions posted are not contradictions at all, would you agree that the scholarship of these articles is in serious doubt? And I don't mean "contradiction" as in something that could mean many things (of which I'm sure we can all agree there would be some in this list), but I refer to very clear and simply illustrated points of contradiction.

As i said, it's sad that they shoot themselves in the foot with such inaccurate reporting. I have yet to find an exception to this, though since I have not looked at this list, perhaps these will be the first (I won't hold my breath).

Just a thought.

~ Regards, PA
Apostle
QUOTE (doktorhook @ Feb 13 2008, 08:25 PM) *
First let me apologise for having waited so long to answer this question. I took a brief respite from the site as I am want to do from time to time.

Secondly let me apologise a second time because at first I couldn't see how you could be confused so I went back over my posts to see where I may have been unclear. Well I found it. Apparently I didn't make my arguement to begin with! My arguement is this, that man IS god only seperated from it by an illusion. If sin is what seperates us then sin is the illusion. "God's limitlessness does not limit him from making a creation separate from Him." Not too deep at all thankfully & I understand exactly what your saying. By saying than infinite god cannot do something is to put limits on it. This is correct, however because of it's limitless nature it cannot be truly seperate! Therefore the seperation must be an illusion by it's very nature. Albeit a very powerful illusion. We are ven called "sons of god" A son of a man must inevitably grow up to be a man because that is it's essence, "Manness". But a child of a god must inevitably grow up to be a god because "Godness" is it's essence. So again my deepest apologies for not making my initial arguement & making this confusing.

Hi,
first I have to say that, yes, sin does separate us from God. Before Adam and Eve sinned, they could walk with God, but now we can't because of the sin. However, even before we sinned, we were not a "particle" or in any way a part of God. Humans have never been a part of God.

A child of God must grow into a man or woman of God, not a "god". A child of God is just a reference to someone who believes that Jesus is the son of God, who, came died, rose from the dead and is now seated at the right hand of God; because God has paid the price for their sin and adopted them as one of His own.

God being limitless can do anything. He can create something outside of Himself. It's completely wrong to say that because He is, He's all there will ever be. God can easily create something outside of Himself, all it took was Him speaking things into existence. I believe God is a spirit, which doesn't have a physical form and therefore does not have a dimension or physical limitation. That doesn't mean that God is everything; it made me think of water, it has no definite form, but doesn't consist of everything.
Maybe that will clarify my position more. Also, look here for some really good information about this question.
~Apostle
djohan

John 14:28 (New International Version)

28"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.


John 10:29 (New International Version)

29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[a]; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.

Is Jesus God?
Bluefinger
QUOTE (REBEL @ Feb 17 2008, 02:38 AM) *
They're directed to Apostle in answer to my original question in order for her to try and explain away some and or if not all the biblical contradictions...
Sorry, I meant, who did the authors of those verses write to and why was it written to them. This is paramount in understanding texts and cultures that are ancient history now.

QUOTE
err, 'In your opinion', who or rather ''whom'' do you think we should make him out to be?


He 'WHOM' cannot be limited, named, seen, held, comprehended, restrained, defeated, destroyed, avoided, or deceived. He 'WHOM' has access and is master of all dimensions. Ofcourse, I say 'HE' because of how I comprehend 'HIM', but certainly not placing a gender on HIM. If you don't see what I'm getting at, let me know.
Bluefinger
QUOTE (momentarylapseofreason @ Feb 17 2008, 09:40 AM) *
That's very nice thank you Bluefinger thumbsup.gif It's a kind gesture

I can tell by your posts that you really care and it's appreciated


You are quite welcome. I firmly believe that God can easily prove Himself. As a Christian, I'm not here to convince or convict, I'm here to point people to the ONE who does. God bless
Bluefinger
QUOTE (djohan @ Feb 18 2008, 11:25 AM) *
John 14:28 (New International Version)

28"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.


John 10:29 (New International Version)

29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[a]; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.

Is Jesus God?


Yes. What Jesus is in Himself is the union between man and God, being both at the same time. Like Adam, Jesus had a bond between man and God in Spirit. When Adam rejected God, that union was separated. However, Adam was a created being; from the dust of the earth. Jesus was born by the Spirit within a woman. The seed then was God's and not man's. This then makes Jesus both God and man at the same time. Now if any say it be impossible, let them consider the other ways that God has manifested Himself to men in the past. He came as a hovering Spirit creating all things. He came as a burning bush that commissioned the deliverance of Israel to Moses. He came as a wispering wind to speak words of comfort to Elijah. He came as a commander of God's army. He came as a messenger to Daniel concerning the future of God's people. He came as a deliver of God's people from sin. And He will come as a King who rules with righteous judgement.
ThaMenace
In an earlier post you talked about Jesus getting angry and that sometimes anger is ok. Well if that's the case then why are there numerous verses on anger? I agree that not all anger is sin, but the verse that keeps coming to mind is

Ephesians 4:31 :
Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

That says "all", unless it is only talking about all bitterness, which isn't entirely impossible since it later says "all" again referring to malice. But I don't see why it would say only all bitterness and all malice yet some wrath, anger, clamour, and evil speaking is acceptable. I mean isn't wrath one of the seven deadly sins?
Apostle
QUOTE (REBEL @ Feb 17 2008, 12:05 AM) *
I normally don't post in the religious threads but it's Sunday here, so hey what the hell. lol!

Heres but a few of many, but starting of with the 3 most common of all...



How many gods are there?
Deut. 6:4 The Lord our God is one Lord.
Gen. 1:26 And God said, let us make man in our image.(Gen. 3:22; I John 5:7)

I'm very glad you posted these and I will take each one at a time on a post. There is definitely no contradiction in any of these that you have posted.

The Hebrew word for God used in Genesis 1:26 and other verses (Psalm 2:7, Isaiah 48:16, Psalm 45:7, Psalm 110:1, etc...) is "Elohim". The suffix "im" makes the word plural (the singular form being "Eloah"). When this word is applied to God, it refers to the Godhead. In Genesis 1:26 we actually have a conversation within the Godhead, or trinity. There is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. One instance in Scripture where we can distinguish between these three separate parts (but equal parts) of the Godhead is in Matthew 3:16-17; when Jesus (the Son) is baptized, the "Spirit of God" descends like a dove, and a voice from heaven (the Father) says, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.". God is a three-in-one, sort of like an equilateral triangle. He is one God and Deuteronomy only exemplifies this.
Paranoid Android
Seeing that no one took up my challenge in the earlier post, I will post on just one of those contradictions that epitomises the scholarship of this article, not only because it is so simple to refute, but also that it shows a deeper issue that any serious scholar would have noticed immediately - How many beasts were in the ark Link

Genesis 7:2 states that there were 7-pairs of clean animals and 2-pairs of unclean animals taken aboard the ark. Then in 7:8, it simply states that the animals were brought on to the ark in pairs. I honestly don't see the contradiction unless you want to argue that "pairs" meant "one pair". There is also Genesis 6:20 which surprisingly wasn't quoted in the "Bible Contradictions" link. This passages states that there were to be "two of every kind" of all birds and creatures will come to Noah. 6:20 sets the scene. 7:2 expands on the theme. And 7:8 concludes the matter as the beasts get on the Ark. These passages are part of one story, it would take you 30-seconds to read through the whole narrative between these verses. It would take a very one-sided attitude indeed to see contradiction here.

The reason I quote this "contradiction" specifically is because there really is a contradiction in this passage. BUT you have to actually know your Bible in order to spot it. And the fact that internet contradictions lists never quote this contradiction is proof of how much the authors actually know about the Bible - very little.

Can you spot the contradiction?
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