I havn't touched the subject of religion or "God" in a really long time. But lately I've been seeing alot of arguements between Atheists and Christians all over the net, and my interest in the subject was yet sparked again. No offense to Christians, but in most cases(I won't say all to be safe) the Christian uses bogus science, or pulls from resources that they have not even researched themselves. To be put blaintly, they have no solid reasons for believing in the things that they do, and will accept any "evidence" or "pseudo-scientific" teachings that support their cause.

This topic is to get a better understanding of WHY Christians believe so fully that their religion is the truth. And maybe some of you (Christians) can look at your beliefs from a different stand point for a change. Believe me, I've done it. I was once a Christian, and please refrain from the ever so popular "You weren't a true Christian if you're an Atheist now!" comments, it's getting old. I'd like to start off with a few questions.

First of all, what in your eyes proves to you that your religion is any more valid than another religion? What makes your God the true God? I must also ask not to use any personal experiences as proof or evidence. Any person can claim to have experiences regarding their own set beliefs, and all it will do is end this thread, leaving us back at square one. Another thing to remember: You can not prove the Christian God true by saying "The bible says he is the one true God!", because you have yet to prove the bible itself valid. I personally see no reason to believe any of what is told in the bible is true. There is no evidence to support it, much less make it any more valid than another religious text. So... Why do you believe in it? Does the Christian religion appeal to you in some way that other religions do not? Were you raised believing that the Christian God was the true God? Are you scared that if you do not believe, you will be doing something "wrong"? Have you been taught not to question the validity of the bible? WHY Christianity and not some other religion?

To me, it's mind boggeling how so many people can blindly believe this stuff. Just a short amount of research will become an eye opener if you are willing to accept any evidence that goes against your beliefs. So many Christians will either deny or accept evidence depending on whether it supports Christianity or not. This is not how science works. Facts are based on evidence, and whether the facts make you happy or not, they are true. They are true regardless of if they support your beliefs or not. That is how you find truth.

It also seems that the interpretation of the bible continues to change as science uncovers more evidence of how the world works. It seems as if the believers must continue to reinterprate the bible's words in order for it to still be at least somewhat sensicle. I do not understand how so many people believe in this book, after the countless amount of times it has been shown to be no more valid than the stories of unicorns and dragons.

Here's an easy way for you to understand how I myself view Christianity. Do you believe in unicorns? The flying Spaghetti Monster? Pink monkies with wings? You probably don't. Think about the reasons why you do not believe in these things. Those reasons are probably very near the same reasons why I do not accept Christianity or any other "defined" God or religion. I say defined God, because I do not completely rule out the possability of a God or Gods.

Also, how do you explain away all of the cruelty in the bible without the sorry excuse "Well, he's God, he can do what he wants"? Some of you may be thinking that "he had his reasons", well let me ask you this: Do you agree with the view that murder is wrong? Do you agree with the view that killing helpless kids is wrong? I'm sure you answered yes, hopefully. Given this, why wouldn't your God at least make himself appear more loving? He must of surely known, that people with good morals would look at his actions and say "That's a bit cruel..". If God were a human, he'd be in prison right now. Why? Because no one would try to argue that his actions were ok. You can take almost any cruel act, place it in the bible, and all of a sudden it's ok. It's almost as if a Christian can NOT call God "cruel". If God would come down and murder their entire family, I would not be surprised if they would try to rationalize it. They'd probably say "Well, he sent them to a better place!".

I was raised in a family who believe in the Christian God. Now I was never forced to go to church, nor read the bible, but you'd be surprised on how subtle comments made by others when you're young can effect your view on the world. From time to time, like all Christian people, my family would make comments about God. IE: "God bless you", or "If God's willing". Things like that left an imprint on my mind, so by the time I was a teenager, the idea of the "True God" being the Christian God was already branded into my mind. So, when someone denied God's existence it made me freak and wonder.. "Why doesn't he/she believe in God?!". In my opinion, this is the most common reason why people believe in any God. They are raised or surrounded by people who believe. Eventually though, I started thinking for myself, argueing with Atheists, and doing some research. It ended up in me finding absolutely no reason to believe in the Christian God. All of the "arguements" and "reasoning" I once used to defend God, now started to seem like copouts, excuses and rationalizations. It just seems so obvious that Christians are not open to any other opinions. I mean sure, some Atheists would hate to admit evidence of the Christian God, but Christians will not accept even OBVIOUS FACTS that do not support their ideas(Evolution anyone?).

Christians can feel and talk to God and this is why it seems real to them.

::Gets out his smores and waits for flames to erupt::

That's the most common explainations used, but it allows us to go no where. If this is all they have, then they still have nothing. I consider such a thing a psychological delusion. If you continue to tell yourself that God speaks to you by showing you signs in your every day life, sooner or later simple happenings will become spiritual. That would be one example. Needless to say, people of all religions claim to have experiences and/or talk to their Gods. If this could be considered proof, then all Gods exist!

Thats the thing with religions though because it has no real evidence it is hard to disprove. Its the innocent until proven guilty approach to belief.

Believers will always have their outs and just by being in these forums for ten minutes we learn its hard to change anyone's mind. The future of religion, belief, science, etc. lies in the next generation...minds that can still be changed. Debating back and forth here at UM is more or less just for fun and understanding...I think we all gave up and changing each others minds long ago.

And always remember...Satan created science to trick you into straying away from God, it may seem real but thats what Satan wants you to think.

I agree with you, exept for one point. There's no reason to disprove religion. You cannot disprove something that has never been proven to exist in the first place. If this were the case, we have ALOT of work to do! Time to disprove unicorns, dragons, pink butterfly monkies, etc!

But, let's wait for a few Christian replies. I mean, there has to be SOME reason as to why they chose Christianity over another religion. Probably not logical though.

Tick tick tick......waits patiently for a Christian to turn up

I chose Christianity because the Bible made sense to me. I read the accounts of Jesus and found them to be inspiring. I read what the Bible said about humanity and found it to be shocking and true. I read about what it meant to be a Christian and change the way I live. I read about how Christ came to reverse the effects of all the wrong we had done. This reading led me to believe that the Bible was true.

I also had first-hand experience of Christ-like living from a couple of Christians I had met while I was still a non-Christian. The life they were modeling was beautiful and selfless and I wanted to be a part of it. Combine this with my reading the Bible and acknowledging the truths it held, and belief in the Christian God came as naturally as my belief that when I click "Add Reply", the internet will kick into gear and send this message half-way across the world to your computer screen.

You are right, this is not a scientific response. It won't "prove" the Christian God over any other. How can one make a scientific observation about something as unscientific as God? But there you have it, take it or leave it. All the best,

~ Regards, PA

Do you still follow this beautiful and selfless life, PA? Are you still true to the hard and fast rules of your bible? How about all xians do they use the book as a tool to guide them in their lives? Somehow I doubt it. If the thoughts of xianity are coming from the same book then why are xians so vastly different from one another?

PS. Zero you are agnostic, not atheist darlin. Atheists believe that a god/gods are neither possible nor probable. You said you're not counting out the possibility. Just setting you right dear boy.

I really think this type of debate is near impossible. Most any "xian" as you guys call them, will admit there is not really any hard scientific proof for a guy in the sky and his son on earth, etc. It's really just boils down to faith, which is not debatable. PA summed it up pretty well. Faith is something many are born into and raised around, ans some others find there way into. People convert as they learn, or decide they need to pursue a different path than the one they were on, or they need to find a path because they lack direction and conviction. Still others are pleased with the direction their intellect alone takes them in, and that's fine too.

Proving faith is like proving a negative. It really is a task lacking reward, as futile as spitting in the wind or counting the grains of sand on the beach. You'll never find the answer, because there is no answer. It's all as ephemeral as love. Some people go so far as to deny it's existence as well as the existence of any Deity. My only response would be, if it's not love that would drive me to sacrifice my own life for that of my children, then what is it? Even in nature, a parent animal will leave behind a wounded child or a one being attacked by a predator, because nature simply allows them to make more. Rarely will an animal altruistically sacrifice itself for it's offspring. So what makes ME able to do it? Something that you can label with a word, but can't touch, measure, physically or scientifically prove exists. I think THAT is what faith is as well.

As a christian, I have to echo some of what eggumby said. I know I can't prove my religion, I can't prove that God exists. Unlike some of the folks you have a problem with, I don't deny science, nor do I feel that science threatens my belief in God. I also don't need to use bogus science to support my faith, and I hate it with a passion when other christians do that.

I believe in God simply because I do. I know that I can't prove or argue my point logically, but I don't feel the need to either.

Religion like philosophy is not provable to a group only to the individual experience. In practice of its principles and ideologies we can determine how much truth it holds for us. And as I said in another thread;
Truth is subjective to the individual experience.
As an example an astronaut can relate his experiences to you, who have never traveled in space and you as an individual have three choices in which to form an opinion.

1. Except his testimony as reliable.
2. Reject his testimony as unreliable.
3. Acquire the experience for yourself and become an astronaut.

Irish

This is one of the most honest answers I have ever seen on this forum, good job

Why must god be inherently unknowable? That's nothing but an assumption.

God isn't unknowable.

But he is, technically.

You can't touch, taste, smell, feel (physically), or hear him. The only way an individual can know God is through spirituality, which by definition, transcends the 5 senses. Since, by definition, to know something means that you have proof involving at least one of the 5 senses, you can't know. You can only believe.

There's at least one poster here, named "Omnaka," that claims he talks directly to God and can see God and that God has revealed things to him, such as the reason that human cloning can't work is because he won't put a spirit into a clone.

*****************

But if people cannot talk with god then how did the bible come about?

There are alot of explainations for the genesis (forgive me for that) of the Bible. I think the most reliable idea is that many of the storys in the bible were borrowed by the exiled Jews from the Babylonians, for instance there is a strong similarity between the Code of Hamurabi (sp?) and the Laws of Moses, or the Biblical flood story and the story from Gilgamesh, among others. I believe that after a certain point in the bible, probably around King David, the storys become much more factual. I would be suprised if King David did not exist in one manifestation or another, and I'm an athiest. As for the New Testament, it was compiled in 422 or there abouts I believe at the Council of Nicea (I could be way off on the date and the name, but I know there was a meeting of Bishops to decide what books would be Canon and what was rejected, somebody please correct me on the name and date if Im off, which Im kindve sure I am). Anyways this group of Bishops decided, based on what they believed was the correct interpretation, what books were in and what were not. Of course, its hard for me to judge the validity of the new testament as a whole when there are hundreds of manuscripts/gospels about the life of Jesus Christ, and I've always had a hard time with the idea that certain books are correct and certain books are false (perhaps theyre all right, or all wrong, or we missed the boat on which ones were right, i dont know), and on top of that the fact that there is very very very limited historical evidence outside of the Bible that Jesus of Nazareth ever actually walked the earth. He could have, I honestly dont know.

Well, I am not going to go on about Omnaka, he has his beliefs, and yes, people have called him out. It's a matter of him (or anyone else) using the word "know" in place of "believe."

Two words that are often used interchangably when they most deffinately should not.

I thought God isn't meant to be knowable, thats why faith is involved?




I talk to alot of deities all the time, just like I talk to the dead and talk to people on the other side of the world and talk to fictional characters. The problem is getting a reply.




It's a matter of jewish folk mythology(something which every ethnic group has) combined with plagarism of other religions. There's nothing to suggest that it's divinely inspired.

That is the bottom line for me. I could care less what religion people belong to; what spirits they believe in or what magic they think those spirits can do. I see no difference between the romans and greeks that had a god for every event, the dogon tribe in niger, or the local southern baptist. They all are believing in things that they cannot see, hear, feel, or prove.

Unfortunately for some reason some in christianity wont accept that faith is enough; and start to transfer the meanings of words to somehow cement that their faith is the one that allows them to "know" somehow something that is unknown. Trying to debate anything religous with these kinds of folks is futile; you cant win against that kind of failed logic...I stopped trying a long time ago as it is a waste of time to try and explain something to someone who will not and can not hear any logical discussion or explanation of the difference between the two terms.

Very true. It is, as I have said many times, an exercise in futility to debate faith.

Even when it comes to the "kinesis" kids as we call some young folks here in UM that insist they X-Men style powers, you must remember if they truly believe in ***kinesis, all you can do is ask for proof of it. We as humans are not required to believe what anyone else believes, but we are also not bound by any rule to convince them that their belief is wrong.

I think it ay be a number of things that draws in insane fundamentalist christians.

These people want to feel better about themselves, They want to believe that they are better then everyone and serve a divine purpose as god's messengers.

These people are really scared of having to live life without a god. They think their lives would seem hopeless or lost without an imaginary friend in the sky helping them and loving them.

These people are taught Science inaccurately, and believe that Fundamentalist Christianity only contradicts what they call 'Evolution'(Which amounts to modern ethics, biology, genetics, anthropology, archeology, cosmology, astronomy, history, geology, paleontology, nuclear physics, chemistry, mathematics, geography, meteorology, and basically common sense.)

These people are taught fundamentalism as a fact from their birth. Imagine if suddenly some random people told you that the Earth is round, when you and your parents and your community, and almost everyone you knew you thought(or actually did) believed it was flat.

These people are under psychological illusions, in which their brains see what they want to see. see:
http://www.godisimaginary.com/video8.htm
(PS- amazing site- check it out)

here are some more sites:
http://www.godisimaginary.com/index.htm
http://members.shaw.ca/amitdeshwar/creationism.html
http://www.seesharppress.com/20reasons.html#
http://www.notjustatheory.com/index.html
http://wiki.cotch.net/index.php/List_of_Cr...hy_and_Theology
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-yXBXGDhWI...feature=related
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith...8/01/shawn.html

In the OP it was mentioned that there are alot more debates, arguements, quarrels or cyberdisplays of opposite opinion in regards to religion or the existence of God. I've noticed this too.

This is because there are now more then ever, more and more people rejecting the belief in God.....;church congregations are getting smaller and smaller. Alot of people , specially here in the west are truly analyzing this belief and using logic and honesty when gazing upon the belief in a God.

The end result as we've noticed is an ever increasing mass of people realizing that the christian religion is not a good path to spiritual enlightenment.

It is OK nowadays to express a disbelief in the christian God, its OK to investigate other avenues of enlightenment, it is OK to use what the mind is best suited for and thats Thinking.

Give it a few thousand years and the Christian God will be on the same page as Zeus in a book titled "Ancient mythology".

Its inevitable though, especially now with the amount of information that is available for people to access. You can read difference of thought right in your own living room now, before you had to walk all the way to the library.

In the past the idea of a christian God was pretty much known to be a fallacy within high circles of scholarly enlightenment, because it was only those people that had access to vast amounts of knowledge, the common folk, largely ignorant, were left with religion and non-investigation to sate their thirsts.

It almost uncanny how the access to information coincides with the reduction of religious adherents.

By studying the validity of his PHYSICAL book that is claimed to be his word, and the truth. It's a step towards proving him that hasn't been done yet.



Atheism is a broad term. The only similarity in all Atheists is their current disbelief in a God. I'm an Atheist. Though I approve of the possability of a God, I do not accept or believe in any currently. Besides, it's just a label.




It's not only an arguement about faith, but also about the reasoning that brings you to choose the Christian God to put faith in over another God. Why this one specific God when all of the Gods talked about in religious texts are just as valid as one another?



But I'm talking universal truths. Objectivity. Sure, it may be true to you, but that doesn't make it true in reality. Many people from all religions claim truths, and if they were all right, it'd create a long list of contradictions.



He's just making an unsupported claim. I could claim to talk to my God "Shaun", but that wouldnt make it true.



A divine origin isn't the only explaination for how the bible came to be. Ever thought that it'd be possible for humans to write books on their own a long time ago?



That is true, and it's a very good thing. Though I wish it'd go a bit quicker. I still have a hard time telling people I'm an Atheist in real life.

Ah, create a poll for Christians, find out how many of them believe that anyone who doesnt' believe in a Christian God is going to hell or will die with no afterlife. I bet it's very few. You'll get a couple, but by in large most would answer either "yes" they are still saved whether they are Christian or not, or they'll answer "I don't know"... I don't know is an acceptable answer.

I personally believe that all "god(s)" are a manifestation of the God. Even those without a central God or gods.

And ya, I'm a Christian.

Its been my experience that alot of christians know in their hearts that it is morally wrong to condem someone to hell for lack of belief, and they know that we know that.....so what alot of fundies say in open public or in such a poll is the exact opposite of what they would say in the confines of their church or amongst other fundies.

I've seen and heard this contradicition.

Bolded by me. I think more importantly, people are beginning to question the dogma and ritual surrounding the worship of ANY deity, not necessarily the absolute belief in one. But you have a good point there.

So what part of science tends to disprove the existence of god/s?

Additionally, a lot of us realize that hell and eternal death are not mentioned anywhere near as much as love and redemption, and that God did not call us to lord it over others, or try to make them feel bad but to have the same servant's heart that Jesus--God in human form--displayed by washing the feet of His followers. So we try to live a life that allows us to share God's love, and lead others to a relationship with Him that way.

Well, according to my studies of the bible, there is no actual place of burning and torture. The bible uses it as a metaphore. But if I jumped onto that topic, it'd stray far away from the original questions. Just to start you off though, the words used for "Hell" can be translated back to mean "Grave".



It's more the fact that when using science to give credit to the bible, one turns up empty handed. And if you do not accept any type of evolution(Like most Christians USE to do), then that's another one against you unless you go back and reinterprate the bible, and stop taking genesis literally.

I don’t think that you have to be of any faith to lead a good life I’ve seen people of all walks of life yes even
Satanist. I think that you follow the teachings of man then your doomed to repeat his/her faults. That’s where Christianity for me failed because it was written by man. That & the whole going to hell thing because your not worshiping me act. People look for those other who support their claims to their faith I think that Christians seem to do that more then most other religions.
I’ve seen post from here & other forums that back up only what they believe & toss the rest aside, even the sources they tend to be biased towards their faith. But I do think most people do that.. Someone here said that people of all faith can’t see or feel his/her Gods I disagree I can everyday I go outside I feel the sun on my face I feel Gaia under each step of my feet I see her beauty every where I go. Christians can say the same thing but for most of them they do not believe that the earth is a living breathing entity. It really comes down to what you believe what God/s is or is not. You can not convince someone who does not want to believe in a higher being they have become as bad as those who they claim to believe in something.
No one will ever be able to prove or disprove another’s faith in the end for us who do believe in something all there will ever be is faith & the rest of you sadly will have to get over it.

Sorry I tend to jump around a bit....


BTW there is a place in the bible which talks about hell but it more seems to be for Satan & his demons. Some people do believe that ehll is just sepration from God too.

Too many powerful people throughout history have had their hands on that book, powerful people with agendas, and with the amount of people who follow it? Its not too be entirely trusted. I think of it as people in power throwing a bone and having the dogs go fetch it. No offense.

Ok I won't ,but why do you say this? I have been describing my personal experiences on this site for over two years, and I have never seen a thread cllosed down because of it, nor have I ever received any advice from a moderator that my comments were inappropriate. Would it not be more honest just to say that you do not find personal experiences either believable, or acceptable as evidence, within your parameters for debate? I would accept that reasoning, as it is your thread.

Or am I completely misreading what you are saying here, in terms of ending the thread.

Where on earth did you get that idea from. I can't comment, given the limitations of the OP, but this statement is incorrect and assumes that all those who testify to the physical nature and presence of god are either delusional or liars.

It is actually a belief system which you have probably developed due to the fact that you, personally, have never experienced the physical reality of god. In other words it is a legitimate belief, based on the evidence available to you, but still just that, a belief.

I could never believe, in faith, the existence of any form of god. Only real and tangible evidence satisfies me. My wife, on the other hand, is one of those many people to whom the existence of god is such an intuitive/faith based thing, that she just can't comprehend people who do not believe in his existence.

i think with every religion across the world there will be people who beleive it blindly and there will be people who are searching and their religion seems right at the time. i dont think its christians as a whole who say 'their god is the true god' i think it goes deeper than that. people dont want to be challenged as to why they beleive something they just know that they beleive it. when people question their beleifs they feel they need to have a defence not only to defend there point but to validate to themselves they are following the right option. the truth is we will never know if our religion/ beleifs are true and this uncertainty can bring fear to the beleiver.

im with you on the 'defined god' thing. i think people shouldnt conclude that they are right and another view is wrong weather there is proof or not. beleifs and faith stem deeper than proof and logic. if hypothetically science prooves christianity, buddhists, extremists any or every religion wrong tomorrow you will probably find most beleivers wouldnt change their views. religions built on the foundations of faith and faiths solider than proof. this isnt blind belief its that when they validated their choice to themselves they felt something more than confirmation this is right they felt a more concrete approval. unless ofcorse they were following it blindly or out of fear.

the bible is something that is very open to interpratation. its validity has and will always be questioned. god shouldnt be held accountable for the actions of man we have our own choices and make our own decisions. also trying to figure out the bible in a literal sense probly wont work out. personally i think the bible trys to teach through what it is saying not the actual specifics of an event its more about the moral of the story. which for the nonbeliver is very easy to twist or warp. also the age of the bible and the fact that humans as a whole are alot smarter now allows for alot more questioning.

the more faithfull of any religion wont say to another they are wrong because they know how deep that comment goes. i think there are infinite ways to find god and beleiving in something blindly or out of fear wont lead anyone to the truth. its healthy to question your own beleif system especially if its an organised one to validate to yourself your own truths. if it stems from love then its probably right

why cant athiests just accept that we believe in religion and let us be? whose to say in this day and age that there wasnt a guy called Jesus and he didnt make miracles happen. why even ask a question like that? there has to be a limit to curiosity.

we cannot prove as of yet that there is a God and athiests cant prove there isnt one.

there are things in this world we cant explain, statues have cried blood, milk has mystiriously dissapeared from glasses, apparitions have appeared. i believe all the things i listed above to be miracles, and are the work of God, if you have a problem with me believing in God, then you'll have to live with it.

while not an atheist myself ----

why can't christians let other people be ? why do they feel the need to spread 'the word'? have it on money ? in government and law ? in schools ? if it wasn't for this maybe you would have never heard of or from atheists ?


a limit to curiosity ? lol. might as well limit education.

as for those miracles - there are other explanations that have fit better. and have been proven. If believing a statue is crying because of a miracle in stead of a defect in the statue you would rather pick the miracle ? instead of logic and hard fact ?

Because you are making fantastical claims about knowing the secrets of the universe. I have an insatiable curiosity to know these secrets also. But I want my beliefs, when I decide to hold them, to be true.



No it really is up to you - you are making the claims.



That will only happen if believers like yourself stop offering up your opinions on sites like these. It takes two to tango

The modern wave of Atheism isn't pushing anything on you, it's pushing back against religion. In the perfect world we'd have secular states with the right amount of believers and not believers in positions of power, on all ends of the political spectrum, and we'd have open discourse. Most atheists I know want that, do most theists?

And putting a limit on curiosity is one of the worst things you can do. It's natural to doubt everything, but, gravity reinforces itself under any amount of doubt, whereas the supposed miracles performed by Jesus have almost nothing to support them.

Oh please, don't act like it's absurd for me to say that God is not knowable. Have you heard God's voice? Literally? Did his vocal chords create sound waves that resonated off of your eardrums? Have you seen God with your eyes? Not in your mind or heart, but with your physical eyeballs? Have you smelled him? Did you feel his arm around your shoulder with the nerves under your skin? Did you taste him? No. It's not even common claim of Christians to have had any kind of actual contact with God that fall within the definition of tangible evidence.

All those who testify to the physical nature and presence of God are not pigeon holed in to either delusional or lying (but, those are certainly valid) but there is also those who use incorrect terms, or misperceive what they are experiencing, more than willing to pass it off as something supernatural.

Not you, nor any one else, can show anyone real and tangible evidence that a God exists, let alone that he is knowable. To know something requires evidence, and if we had evidence, there would be no debate right now.

I'm an athiest & i have no problem with people wanting to follow a religion, but where i do have a problem is when religion influences day to day politics.
Why should the religious fringe have any say in other peoples lives, & yet they do.
When will an athiest candidate for the presidency be able to announce his (non-belief) without it being used as a weapon against him?
In a country like America where tele-evangelists have been shown time & time again to be money grabbing crooks & adulterers do people still fall for their spiel?

I'm not sure where you live, but in the U.S. we have a democratic republic type of government, which basically means it's the rule of the majority. The majority of Americans, at least voting Americans seems to still hold to Judeo-Christian values, and just as atheists and agnostics, are free to use their values when making political decisions, so are those with religious values.

Right, we are in a democratic republic type of government, but we all know that atheists and agnostics do not get a fair chance at the government.

Christians have been in the seat of power in this country since the beginning, and even though they wanted a secular state, it still really hasn't happened.
Not to get into a political debate, but you know that if an atheist tried to run for presidency, he would be overrun. Not by the majority of America, but by the majority of those already in power.

I'll have to assume this is an opinion, unless you have some way of proving this is so. I think the majority of voting Americans hold to Judeo-Christian values and would, therefore, not vote for an acknowledged atheist. What would you consider a fair chance in a "majority rules" environment?

Well, voting Americans yes. I think a lot of people don't vote because they know it is futile in an environment where there isn't a candidate who doesn't believe in Christianity. Since Christians have the power, they keep it.