Well, you've started plenty on evolution and abiogenesis, so I'm starting one on Creation.

Show me proof of creation.

Awww.... Look at the baby. *runs away and sends child support*


But I guess this counts as "pro-creation". But in my opinion, this is true creation. So there you have it, proof of creation.


(Aw c'mon, this thread needs the odd relief.)

Yours ?If so lucky you, what a beautiful babY !!!!! That baby makes me smile

are you blind?

mhm. I can not see how it is possible to provide proof of creation. The idea of random chance can explain anything.

Most (all?) arguments against Evolution and Abiogenisis and even the Big Bang are based on either religious texts or obviously faulty logic and pseudoscience.

One of the major ways to realise a Creationist has no real idea of scientific methodology is when they equate a Theory to a blind Guess. There is a huge difference between the to.

Evolution despite there claims other wise is a FACT. Just as Gravity is a FACT. The Theory of evolution covers the mechanisms behind it. Just as the Theory of Gravity covers the mechanisms behind Gravity. The mechanisms behind both are equally complicated and to a large part unknown.

Another problem with the creationist argument is that they believe that when a theory changes it weakens the idea of science (a very dirty word to many) however when a theory is changed it strengthens science immeasurably as the reason it has changed is because new evidence has arisen and the theory has grown to encompass it. Science is ever growing, we are ever learning new things and due to this theories do evolve. It is necessary and it is good.

The theories relating to electricity and energy have evolved over the years to allow us to use all our electronic devices. In time it will most probably evolve and grow further, but that does not weaken it. The same applies to Evolution. When we discover some new information and feed it to the theory of evolution, thus changing it is not weakened. It is strengthened.

The ability of science to say 'we got this wrong, lets improve it' is the most important of all its abilities. It is also the biggest difference from static religions who view new knowledge with distaste and quite frankly fear.

I would say that many of the arguments posed for creation indicate intellectual cowardice.

Isn't against the rules to single out an individual member like this?

Anyways...this is a one sided debate if I ever saw one. The evidence available for proof of creationism and/or religious beliefs are personal ones and through the words of religious texts. Which as we know cannot count towards proof.

This thread is just a silly attempt to discredit a particular individual. We all know very well how this thread will end.

Are you? Cadetek, what are you talking about? How exactly is this thread defaming anyone?

hell no. I was bored and thought it'd be funny.

Do I exist? I think; therefore, I exist. If I do not think, the question is meaningless. Thus, I have proven my own existence (creation) to myself. You will have to prove your own existence as best you can as I am not sure I could prove that you exist. Doug

I think weve missed the boat on this question. What the OP likely meant was "show me proof of creation as according to the bible. instead of trying to derail evolution give proof that creationism is true"
If my interpretation is correct.

Some time ago I started a thread on which I tried to get creationists to offer evidence and/or a line of reasoning leading to the conclusion that creationism was valid. I even provided that the Bible could be used as valid evidence. A couple people posted some Bible verses, but no line of reasoning that led from those verses to the conclusion that creationism is accurate.

At this time, I do not believe that there exists a rational basis for creationism, with or without reference to the Bible. I wonder just how much creationists actually know about what the Bible really says and whether most of them ever read it.
Doug

Creation as in the 7-days-theory in Genesis?

Is there any other evidence for that kind of creation besides Genesis?

Until the theory evolution is no longer a theory and has been proven without any doubts the same as intelligent design they both remain as theoretical and should be presented as such within education. The problem is Id is more closely associated with religious belief and therefore stuck with the same stigmas as religion. Both theories have viable arguments and actually share much of the same evidence. They lack solid undeniable proof of a beginning of all things as well as link to each, and therein are why they are both regarded as theoretical.
Evolution science is also unfortunately branded with the stigma of atheism and anti religious dogma. It should be noted that there are Evolutionist that believe in God and Creationists that do not believe in a personal God. The problem with both theories is people tend to mix science with philosophy, religion and emotion and place their personal dogmas in the road of unbiased research. Science, philosophy, religion and emotion (art) are not, and have never been compatible and must be regarded separately.

Until the following question can be answered I am on the fence

1. What environment and mixture of minerals, water, sunlight, temperature and atmosphere caused the first living cell to develop?
2. What caused human life (extremely complex DNA and body chemistry) to depend on the presence and right proportion of 60 minerals and trace elements, and 30 vitamins and amino acids; and to be maintained by regular drinking of water and eating of plants and animals?
3. What caused primitive cells and organisms to develop into humans with brains, nervous systems and the five senses: ears to hear the audible spectrum of ~20-18,000 cycles per second?
4. What caused or required the initial development of male and female genders in the first cell as a requirement for reproduction of that cell?
5. If life began as an aquatic cell or plant, what caused that plant to develop into an animal? Did some environmental change require or motivate it to evolve?
6. If evolution were a fact, then humans at the top of the evolution process should be the most advanced of all the species in all areas. Is there another stage of evolution that will eventually produce a more advanced species than humans?
7. What caused human beings to be the only “kind” to have a lumbar curve in their lower backbone, enabling us to stand and sit in an upright position, and carry heavy loads while walking?
8. What caused the invisible realities of life to exist? For example, all the emotional transactions that occur during eye contact, between animals, and especially between humans?
9. Why is life temporary? What required life, once started, to begin ending? What caused the paradox-like processes of (1) growth and maturing (including natural healing of many diseases and injuries) in all plants, animals and humans; and then the (2) aging process that always ends in death?

My arguments here are not so much as support for Creationist theory as it is apposed the evolutionist theory which in recent years has become as dogmatic as theology. Both theories have become bogged down within assumption and presumptions with little real foundation or physical fossil evidence on either side either side of the table. From a science perspective nether one is in the lead at the moment however my faith is not affected by developments in science as faith is separate from it anyway.

Irish

Irish, why dont you stay on topic... the topic is "Proof of Creation"...

I am neither for ID or evolution, I am an Agnoevolutist with Creationist leanings and we are entitled to our opinions (and tomatoes) from both sides of the fence.

ID is no theory , it is creationism trying to gain authenticity by covering it's religious tracks .Who is the intelligent designer they are talking about ? We all know .The golden rule for IDs is "whatever you do ,don't mention god "

Quote
Thus, why make the identity of the designer off-limits? Why be coy about speculating about the designer's identity when its perfectly natural to ask this follow-up question? Secondly, the major players in the ID movement all happen to be religious. Thus, it is obvious that they believe the designer is God. But given the socio-political climate, where the ID movement is trying to get ID incorporated into public schools, the silence is part of a political strategy itself.

fullywired

What about people that believe we are created or genetically produced by aliens, would they not be considered believers in ID. I would not call them religious in any way and there are plenty of them on these boards.

Stellar, I think this question you pose has no real answer as I have yet to see one bit of proof I don't believe there is any proof to be had. Creationisim is souly (lol) based on faith.

Yes what about them!!!!!lLOL

fullywired

Those poor buggers need something to believe in without a religious angle

The "proof of creationism" thread is painfully absent of proof of creationism...an evolution thread would be be 32 pages long with at least 12 warnings and a suspension by now from all of the action, but asking for proof of creationism...

geez.

**crickets in the background**

All of these questions are answered already.


Formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide were formed and reacted to produce amino acids, sugars and nitrogenous bases, which formed the complex solution. These building block molecules formed into larger molecules, including proteins, nucleic acids and carbohydrates.
Proteins-Amino Acids
Nucleic Acids- Nucleotides
Carbohydrates- sugars
Life began when these complex molecules began replicating, due to chemical reactions it had the ability to control.
Thus the first life form had RNA, that could catalyze polymerization reactions to link monomers as a template for replication.


Amino acids are the building blocks of proteins, and enzymes are proteins that catalyze chemical reactions in an organism. Its self explanatory why we need amino acids. The more complex an organism is, the more variety of 'fuel' it needs to get work done. Also vitamins are required in extremely low amounts for metabolism. Other organisms need these to, humans are no different.


The evolution of nervous systems from such organisms as Coelenterates to the human brain is not a difficult one. It is gradual and serves as the transmission of electrochemical stimuli. I don't specialize in neurology so I am sorry I can't provide a better explanation for this.


Not sure what you are referring to here. Are you asking for an explanation for why their are two sexes or why male and female parts emerge.


Evolution of land organisms began because there was no competition there. This caused plants to change drastically to meet the challenges of living on land, including water for fusion of gametes, dessication, and support. The ozone layer also began to form and it provided protection similar to that of the ocean.


False, there is no top of evolutionary process. There is no best species. This is explained in my thread on Evolution.


The lumbar curve evolved as a direct result of being bipedal and to meet the musculoskeletal stresses that result from bipedalism.


Please explain what you mean here more


The shortening of telomeres and depredation of living material. Its a straightforward answer, if I read the question correctly. It is impossible with current technology to live forever. The human body and immune system is not perfect. This is especially noticeable if one recognizes that if you live long enough, you will get cancer, no matter what you do.

Evolution is fact in the science community. A scientific theory holds more water than you give it credit for. Intelligent Design is not a theory and is not science. I guarantee you contact any respected biologist and they will tell you the same thing I just did.
My expertise and research is centered on the cellular level of Biology. I am sorry if some of my answers towards things above this physiology are less than substantial, but please ask me if you need a more detailed answer. I sort of went through this quickly.

Irish

Believe me,they will find something


fullywired

I'll tackle these. It took billions of years to get this way, the most gradual steps over that large a time scale add up to what we see now. Once brains, nervous systems and senses evolved in the most ancient and basic species they stuck around. From there they developed where they were needed. Our senses aren't that great actually, compared to an eagles eye sight, a dogs hearing or sense of smell, etc.




These two go together I think. Humans are not the top of the evolution process, whoever claimed that? The only advantages we have over the rest of the animal kingdom are our brains and our thumbs. We have relatively short life expectancies in the wild, we cant run or climb as fast as other species, we're aware that we're going to die and we're vunerable to so many things. We may try to put ourselves at the top of the evolution process, but there really is no top. We'll keep on evolving, like everything else, but we've essentially taken natural selection out of the picture.

We're not the only species to ever walk up right, we're just the only one alive today. It'd be like asking what caused elephants to be the only 'kind' to have a trunk. We think our traits are the greatest and wonder why other species aren't evolving towards them, well why aren't we evolving towards trunks? Or towards the level of radiation resistance that cockroaches have? Or towards jaws like a lion? Standing upright and being able to think made us a successful species, but it's not the only thing that makes a successful species.

I thought the topic was proof of creation?

Jeez, two clearly smarter and probably less tired people beat me to it.

Good point. Jeez, got that turned around on us real quick.

"Until the theory evolution is no longer a theory and has been proven without any doubts the same as intelligent design they both remain as theoretical and should be presented as such within education. "

I know this has been pointed out many times on these forums but I guess it just can't be said too often. The word 'theory' is used differently in popular and scientific parlance. For science the word refers to a broad explanatory framework that ties together and makes sense of a set of observations. It does not refer to a mere guess (as it does in everyday speech). Theories, being explanations, can never be proven. (Theorems in mathematics are proven contingent on a set of axioms. Perhaps this is why people get confused here.) Calling something a theory expresses no opinion as to its validity. We still speak of 'atomic theory' and the 'theory of special relativity' even though nobody doubts that these are correct ideas. We still speak of the 'theory of phlogiston' even though everyone knows it to be false. That having been said, not all theories are equally plausible. I take strong exception to the teaching of an inferior and unsupported notion, ID, (which, because it implicitly invokes miraculous explanations, does not even conform to the structure of a scientific theory) on a par with evolution (which has been the gold-standard within biology for almost a century and a half). We owe our students better.

(And, yes, I too am still waiting to see all that evidence for Creationism!)

you may wish to sit down for this one ;

if you like science and logic heres your answer .

generations ago -there was god -for some unknown reason god desided to make things -according to a plan -being very intelligent he decided to make a man named moses-moses job was a witness and a record keeper to future generations -moses wrote down the things god showed him and told him -to show proof that god exists and that hes in control-the written record is in the bible and it hasnt changed very much since it was made except for translations .

this record shows =

oof of gods existance ;

proof god created the heavens and especially the earth;

scientiffic obsevations of charictaristic changes in matter in space in series;

and that god was telling us the truth since the beginning ;

=heres the fun part =god told the writter ,what to write in general and vague terms ;

so -not to add or take anything away from gods written word =i will test it for you for truth by science .


first get a bible to verify what im going to tell you -to match discriptions .preferably a king james version.


check for text exact descritions in the following and compare for yourself as youll be the judge....................

book of genesis chapter 1 verse 1;moses writes what god states -in the beginning god created the heaven and the earth.........................

logic; god creates the cosmos and our earth and has a man in future generations write it down points to prove ;1.god was there in the begining to witness what he created ,and takes credit for it .points to prove ;discription of creation that pertains to us.

god goes from there in intelligent design onto creation of the earth since its important to us .=heres where the modern day -cutting edge science comes in

book of genesis chapter 1 verse 2 ;gods vague descriptions of earths formation in a zero gravity space environment=god states for moses to write ;and the earth was without form =====first accurate discription======and void =======second accurate discription=====and darkness was on the face of the deep======fourth acurate discription ===and the spirit of god moved upon the face of the waters ======last acurate discription of this verse .

scientiffic logical explaination =first you have a zero gravity cold vaccum of space environment -second you have god do something -probably chemically and thermodynamically and centrifically and centrifugally .and a host of other sciences and formula types involved some known others not known yet .
basic principle gass and liquid reactions in space in a certain area -science calls it big bang -i call it chemical reaction -slow or fast reactions or both with solids liquidsand gasses and plasma arcs. possibly .result through presures exerted -heat transphered -you have heat in cold causing condensation of gasses =water or ice -=acetlyelene and oxygen mixining -creating solid ash =and other chemicalls -creating gasses -so now you have in laymens theroys
solids liquidsand gasses and posibly lighting storms in the middle of zero gravity cold .space

in any space environment where there is no orbiting body near you -youll find in matter objects they creat there own gravity field -so after the big or small bangor sizzle -some of what got blown out -imediately got sucked back in to where ever was the largest gravity field --so the elements in space sucked back into itself and a misshapened mud ball with bubbles formed .-so gods description of =and the earth was without form,and void was correct =gee he must have been there ?next =p.s. check astronauts playing with orange juice blobs in cockpit of rocket on old space footage in zeo gravity environment .after spill.from packet .

the part god states as darkness being on the face of the deep this would be true also -heres how . add two ideals -path of least resistance and internal gravitational pressures of compression and external priciples of expansion -two this mudd ball -now with its own gravity field -study the current ball shape of the earth -with everything pulling toward the center -the more dense solids would sink to the center and the liquids would be squeezed outward to the surface .kind of like throughing a rock out into a lake =logically it sinks .to the bottom .-being that gasses probably ignited and ash or carbon was the chief solid made -=god i believe answered truthfully and correctly again when he stated = and darkness was on the face of the deep =he may have ment that it looked like a mirror possibly -dark solids sinking to a core and water -liquid forming on the surface pressed upward and then set to calm -this mirrored principled effect would be decribed by god this way .=then god said to moses to write =and the spirit of god moved upon the face of the waters -this here tells use god was busy creating=moving .at this step of earths formation -by saying he was above the waters .in space as the core of the earth wasnt compressed enough yet or the earth wasnt moving generating g-forces in the core to generate heat yet .so without the atnosphere space vacum and cold were still upon the liquid waters of earth .-god still is correct science wise so -far -ill keep going .

this next verse=through me for a loop because at first and for the next few years in my studies it didnt make sense .but it did later -
book of genesis chapter 1 verse 3=and god said let there be light ,and there was light ,and god saw the light ,that it was good ;and god dividedthe light from the darkness ,and god called the light day and the darkness he called night,and the evening and the morning were the first day -=for one i first tripped out on god working in complete darkness -he doesnt need light to see his work -or other things =second the light part i couldnt figure out at first -i thought it was the chemical reaction -the big bang theroy or lighting or plasma or the sun and the moon or the stars or an explosion -=then i tripped out on
evening and morning being the first day -he had the events here in order too -first darkness then light .-but what i didnt understand at the time is god put the correct orbital spin on the earth for refinement further .light- day then darkness night -and darkness preceding the light -shows a spin in logic of a near ball shaped formless object .-now with thermodynamics in play and centrifical-centrifugal forces at play the gravity field of earth increases .compression starts to heat up the core -making the surface matter round out more-flatting out water more .basically internal pressure an external presure have to equalise eventually and with a gravity field in space surrounded by zero gravity -the ball shape apears on anything moving in orbit over time till maters equalise .example -to push solids up -you have earthquakes -volcanos -and tectonic plate ridges pushing ground upward -the counter -wind gravity snow and rain and water push it back down to its lowest level .this sets things up for the next thing god created.=so far gods right on the money for observing changes to the earth from space -for how things work out in space on matter .

the next few verses deal with discriptions of spin effects of earth and liquids evaporating and atnosphere expanding and pushing space away from the surface of earths liquid cover -creating evaporation -then condensation cycles as the air gets thinner toward the cooler ceiling -or section of space that was pushed away by atnosphere -in effect causeing a rain and snow cycle -cumulus meteorolgical condition -precipitation cycle .

book of genesis chapter 1 verse 6through 10

god told moses to write ;and god said ,let there be a firmament =space-expanse-basically atnosphere of gasses = in the midst of the waters ,and let it divide the waters from the waters .and god made the firmament=again god takes credit for making-creating=and divided the waters which were under
the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament ;and it was so.god called the firmament heaven=sky=.and the evening and the mornining
were the second day .and god said let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place =-im assuming the steam ,rain and mist and fog were drug down to a liquid form to find its own level after settleing -and then started the evaporation cycle -precipitation system started to work about this time =,and let dry ground apear ;and it was so .and god called the dry land earth,and the gathering together he called seas .;and god saw that it was good .

so -hows that for the way earth was made -hows that for creation so far ?

as for signs of inteligent design god seems to work on many things at once -and had moses write down other projects in other orders -but most things happened for logical,explainable reasons -god from here shifts into making plants and trees -he couldnt make them before as there was no earth and dry ground to plant them on yet -so besides food for animals and people -they were probably put down to maintain oxygen in the atnosphere and add stability to soil.-then god made the lights in the firmamet of the heaven for light-to divide day and night -for signs -for seasons days and years-and light to give light on the earth .-basically -he made the earth -then added water then air then plants -so the plants could sustain the air -then he added light to sustain the
plants -trees . then besides the sun and moon -needed for tides and algae-plankton kelp -basically fish food -he made fish or water creatures -first
then the birds -to transport the seeds of the plants or trees possibly-by excretment after digestion . -and keep the land and sea populations down -
then he made land living creatures -cattle creeping thing etc . this could also be to fertilize and garden plant life -and the plants and trees would feed them .
also insects were implicated as they garden -recycle -and polinate trees -as trees only have wind to polinate -and need insects for this like bees to sustain and recycle .so basically god set up this whole place -just to maintain itself indefinately -and also so man would have no problem fitting in to the nitch created for him by god .-that mainly goes for the whole world -he said be fruitful and multiply .then he planted a speciffic garden in a speciffic place -and put man here to maintain it -the garden had plants and trees -to sustain people -so the signs of intelegent design are there -planned -then god said lets make man in our image --then created adam to tend the garden -then had adam name them then in care and consideration made adam a helper eve -wich instead of being created like adam -was created with a piece of adam=his rib =so technically eve evolved -was created out of a part of a man .-so god looked out for us men in places -food and companionship from the start .-it was we that finally messed up -and got ourselves in bad standing by being unfaithfull to god -in the bible he tells us how to live right -and stay out of trouble -kind of like a directions booklet on how to operate in gods created world for correct existance .and longevity -and he tells us he cares about how were doing in that environment still.-he even tells us we have a better place to go after this if we fullfill what he asks of us in his word -the bible after we die=change from phyisical to spiritual as he is .so again he prepares a place for us to go and prosper -because he does care .

forgive me my friend if i carried on too much or if i got some things wrong in theroy -of creation -i just wanted to show you theres something to investigate
about the authenticity of creation and the god of the bible . i was a skeptic before like you -i checked into this subject for years -now i believe god no matter what .-hes real and he tells the truth even if it hurts -hes allways there and he really cares -so now its up to you my friend -your choice believe or unbelieve --your decision -all god asks is that you believe him -on his son jesus .and that you live right before him -and follow his word -and talk to him ocasionally .simple -

with this whole idea the choice of weather not god exists or not ,should be answered by now -now you must ask yourself if hes really god and what he claimes to be -or is he an alien ?-i hust cant see how a small alien who is seen and crashes his ships can handle a universe let alone a planet with billions of people -sorry to me aliens are not that good at dexterity and ability and handle everything at once nor do they plan well -nor make good ships as they crash and are ,injured or killed .- please brother take a chance and believe in god for once ive never regretted making that choice years ago -
yes ive had problems -but nothing he cant handle .research his word yourself -see what you may find -the bible is the trippiest book i ever read -close and slow several times .it has depth of understanding like no other book -everything means something in there.it is a trip .

Are you serious? That's complete gobblygook. Firstly, punctuation. Please. Secondly you threw in a whole bunch of extremely bad science (where I could ever detect any) that doesn't support anything that you said. Try this. Take one idea of the bunch you tossed around and outline the scientific validity of it. The above is a mess that's barely readable.

p.s. for all the mind readers out there and the clarivoyants -seers and soothsayers and mediums -why have i never read of one of you guys winning the lotto and useing the correct undesclosed winning numbers for a prize. the only thing that ive ever believed in is wwhat god said regaurding to authentic ones -the witch of endor -who conjured samuel the prophet -for king saul -and a demon posessed future reader that jesus's disiples freed from that bondage by healing and casting out - -of coarse the shop owners that were makeing money off of her were upset that she lost the gift -but at least she was free .-yes there are real spiritual forces out there -the bible mentions many -so there is a type of entity force out there we cannot explain -but i know this
gods the biggest -and hes out to help us. these things want to just control us -enslave us -or corrupt us .or destroy us .jesus came here to set us free and keep us safe from the likes of these -parasitic life forces-these are the only types of unexplainable entities ive ever herd of .they are out there -stay clear of them -or places and things that influence them -into becoming part of your life .-the devil may give you powers -for your own selfish and petty wants .but at a cost .allways at a cost -god through jesus gives you things you are in need of in due time according to his will .and plan -and when he gives you power its for his reasons and its unstopable .-god can bring folks back from the dead complete -the devil cannot -unless its a lying wonder in the future .

the main difference between jesus and satan is -love
by definition jesus is about love =love defined is care and consideration of the state of another above your own self -regardless of the cost or loss to the one who gives love .jesus proved this on the cross -with un conditional love .
satan is the opposite -he is defined by lust or desire mainely for power and control -lust-desire is defined the opposite of love -lust is the selfish hedonistic desire motive -to attain something -usually belonging to some one else -no matter what the cost or loss is to the one being taken advantage of .satan proved this by telling jesus to jump off a roof =to prove he was gods son -=then remarked about angels would catch him on a fall -less he dashed his foot against the ground .

I take it back. Don't bother.

LOL and after all that we are still waiting for proof. A quick reminder, the bible is not proof...

I hope he/she listens to you.

Someone hired him?

proof of creation

the LAWS scientists seek

i doubt universal constant is random chance.

as for the genesis version
just another bedtime story.

Self Employed.

You're applying a kind of anthropomorphism when stating such a view. Universal constants as we know them imply neither randomness nor intelligent creation. They just are. If they were different you could say that implied creation too and be no more correct in such an assumption.

Why did God have to create the world and man??

if there is a creator responsible for the existence of everything, who is to say he created us directly?

if i create a bowl and some alphabet spaghetti and i put the ingredients in the bowl then gave the bowl a mix. If the letters arrange themselves in an order that spelt out a word did i create that or was it an indirect result of my initial creation??

If the spaghetti letters had self awareness, would they think they occured by chance or that someone created them and their world within the bowl? To believe we are created is a natural thought process.

We dont know the answers, but there is equal chance no one created us directly. We may just be the result of serving a purpose. A universe may be created, the matter following the laws of the universe eventually create galaxies, stars and planets, a planet that has an abundance of gases then has life forms processing those gases, life forms become more complex and eventually question self existence.

Equally there may be no creator. I for one will not say either way for definate. To do so would be naive as we have no answers.

Why do we say God directly created man? Because were an arrogant species.

Actually, we do have quite a lot of answers and a lot of evidence about how the universe started, how galaxies, stars and planets form and such. Good hard evidence. The OP is looking for is equally hard evidence for special creation. If the universe was created in a short period of time and everything just sprung up on the earth as it is, there should be very clear lines of evidence of this.

On a somewhat unrelated note, where is walkingwithfire? I kindve figured he would be leading the creationist cause, or at least poke around here and there.

we have answers to those points you have mentioned, but they dont exactly explain the topic of creation as there are still unanswered questions.

if we had answers as you say we wouldnt be discussing the creation topic. We have evidence that go towards theories but we still actually do not no for sure, hence the no answers comment i made before.

My original point still stands, why do we need a definate answer when we still havent learnt enough about the universe, can we not just say we dont know instead of people picking sides. That is the basic stupidity of our species. The stubborn-ness to suggest we know the answers when we do not. We once thought the world was flat too. I for one will not pretend to know the answers

the old saying "they that have faith need no prove and those that do not will never find the proof." one of the oldest aguments ever recorded and i am sure my great grand children will still be debating this.

Yes we got that information from the bible but fortunately Science put us right


fullywired

exactly so why pretend to believe anything else until we actually know the truth. thats why i am a firm believer in evolution as their is evidence to suggest it occurs. creationism seems the easy answer to me but a fully understandable one, check my alphabet spaghetti explanation earlier.

I guess there's nothing on AnswerGenesis about creationism. Apart from trying to poke evolution and Darwin's natural selection.

for most people the idea that god created the universe is seperate to evolution or chance occurance. i dont know why but most think if the creator created then it would be different to how it is and evolution and chance occurance wouldnt be in it. why is this? what do you expect? to see god walking around with a wheel barrow planting trees or inventing little animals out of thin air... for life to exist in such an intricate and perfect balance chance occurance must be an amazing thing.without evolution life would not and could not exist, life would not be able to adapt to its changing environment. science cant and wont figure out the spark of life until they look past logic and proof. yes we are physically made of elements found throughout the universe but there is no element in the universe called consciousness. there is no chemical that gives rise to our animation and intellect there is no base on the periodic table for life..... there never will be