now i am not starting this thread to make any one angry so if you get angry from this then well, dont read it.

is fact real? can any thing be proven? is it a fact that evolution is real? is it a fact that the universe was created by the "big bang theory"?
i do believe that humans said that it was a fact that the world was the center of the universe. that it was a fact that we are the most intelegent creatures on the planet. it was impossible that we could leave this planet. that was a fact some time ago i do believe.

so with every thing changeing why would we say that things are a fact? fact can not be changed. a theory can. so i ask all "is fact real?


pok

Fact is real to whoever wills it to be real. Of course, there is no way to be 100% sure of what is real and what isn't. Facts are based on the assumption that we aren't completely wrong about the universe. Likewise, just because someone says something is impossible, does not make it fact. If I say it is impossible to leave the planet it doesn't make it any more fact now than it did back then. Like you said, a fact is something that has to be proven. No one ever proved it was impossible to leave the planet because we have gone into space.

So, yes. Fact is real.

EDIT : Spelling mistakes :x

Generally, a fact is defined as something that is the case, something that actually exists, or something that can be verified according to an established standard of evaluation. There is a range of other uses, depending on the context. People are interested in facts because of their relation to truth. Often a fact will be claimed in argument under the implied authority of a specific pedagogy, such as scientific facts or historical facts. Dispute may arise in defining the standard upon which the authority of the fact rests. Confounding this, Rhetorical use of the term often does not disclose from where the authority originates.

Wikipedia's definition of fact^^^^


I don't think theres such a thing as 100% fact, especially when that fact implies truth. There could be an infinite amount of reasons something may be understood, or that our "facts" could possibly be based on an elaborate illusion. I don't think the human mind is capable of knowing actual, absolute truths.

Trick question, or two questions rolled into one. Are there facts? If there are, do we know any?

Put aside mathematical facts, and tautolgies (statements that must be true). I think exactly one of the following statements is true:

Columbus sailed the ocean blue in 1492.
Columbus did not sail the ocean blue in 1492.

Whichever one is true would be a fact. I think it is very difficult to make a persuasive argument that there are no facts, and if you succeeded, then that would itself be a fact.

Do I know which one of those sentences is true? No, I do not. But in all honesty, I can hardly detect the difference between how my state of belief in the first statement feels versus my felt-belief in a tautology.

Intellectually, I do know the difference. I could imagine finding out some new information that casts doubt on whether Columbus existed, or really sailed with the tiny fleet, or that all of this happened in 1493 rather than 1492, or ... whatever. I do not expect to find such information, but I know it is possible that I might, and I know that if I did, then I would change my beliefs.

In contrast, there is no new information that would convince me that the sides of any right triangle disobey the Pythagorean Theorem.

Opinions do change, as you observe. Also, there is such a thing as "false dichotomy."

The earth revolves around the sun.
The sun revolves around the earth.

Not only was there a time when people believed the second to be true, they also believed that the truth of the second necessarily excluded the truth of the first. The actual teaching of modern physics, however, is that all motion is relative, and so both are "true" and neither one excludes the other.

What remains is that the first statement is very useful, and the discovery of how much more useful than the second statement came as a great surprise to astronomers.

Usefulness is troubling, because outright falsehoods can be useful. Newtonian physics is still used by engineers and yes, even physicists, even though nobody "believes in it" anymore.

Tough stuff, facts and reality.

Ouch, sounds like quite a hellish place to be. Unsure whether anything is real or not. Relativism to the most extreme extent. I remember that if you drink too much water you will end up dead as well, hyponeutemia. Clearly the gears of the logic machine were turning rather quickly. Not everything in life is confounded to logic. You could argue that nothing is for certain, all is relative. I can agree with that, I was somewhat of a chaote for some time. Why bother with trying to prove anything at all? Why not try to strive for what it is that maintains all this? Beyond Logic? What is there? The scientist will most likely say nothing. Glorified Nothing is the god of most scientists. I'm glad my heart tells me otherwise. Forget proof for anything, remember the path back to the heart, then the pieces will fall in place.

Peace,

-T

is fact real? a fact is a portion of reality. Being real is subjective. A real fact is subject to the portion of reality.

act is not real at all. Fact is made by people who wish to control others

thank you. i feel the same way.


pok

Fact is fact. It is real. Not used to control others but in many cases used to show reality. Which comes in handy over on the metaphysical forum ....that is all...

you see that is just your opinion. and that is not a fact. open minds need to question things further. closed minds do not. which are you?



pok

Obviously you don't understand. If someone says there is at least one person on the planet earth who is blind. That is fact! Deal with it and stop wanting to live in a fantasy world!!

Who is living in fantasy, it is you and me. You for beliving in science and i for believing in psychic. But I wish science never ever gets psychic. If not it will become a part of science.

You are in denial my friend. What I stated was fact and yet you cannot cope with reality. You hope science never ever gets psychics? Then why do you argue with skeptics on forums if you don't want science to explain it? You are full of paradox.

I argue because i love debate.


I really don't believe you


Why else am I interesting?

So you don't believe someone if someone says there is at least one person on the planet earth who is blind? That is deluded thinking.

I still don't believe what can you do?

There's obviously nothing I can do. If you have become so deluded you don't live in reality, then it is more what people you know can do to help you.

There's obviously nothing I can do. If you have become so deluded you don't live in reality, then it is more what people you know can do to help you.
Indeed so if you don't believe in psychic its the same thing.

to dive deeper into this, and people in my life think I am crazy so who cares about the internet world? Fact is just a title to allow the world to run smoothly. The grass is green, and the sky is blue right? Sure it is, so we as a society can agree. I may see a blue sky, but my friend same age, same up bringing may see his blue sky as I may see the color green. Will we ever know? Maybe, if we can learn to look from someone elses point fo view physically.

What about eye impants Stoker?

Ok, yes, of course. An eyeball is a peice of flesh (which is "fact" for sake of argument) that allows us to see right? Ok, now it is our brains that percieve colors, and distinghish and seperate them into what we have been taught were the right colors. Sky is blue, grass is green, hourse crap is brown (sometimes with a little green mixed in). Now, the way the brain works is one of the biggest theories we as the human race have been comtemplating for years. Does the brain really seperate colors? Is it there to tell us to move, or to breath? Fact, again, is a title in which our minds as a constant can cope with our way of life. As I see it, in my opinion, that our lives are all dependant on theories. Life never stays the same. To say soimething is "fact", that it can never be seen as changing is, again, in my opinion, ludicris.

Nothing will stay the same. I'm not a mathmatition, but I believe even the almighty math structure that we have based our entire way of thinking will change. Numbers are infomous, sure why not? Sounds good, for now. We could be wrong, or right, or both at the same time. That example goes with anything. Change is everywhere. Now, I know people are syaing "Hey, thats a fact if its true!" A title, not a fact, so we can agree and move on. No, its not a fact, its opinion. A belief from one indavidual that is floating like a spec in the wind of the universe.

Again, as I say quite often, I could be wrong.

Stoker

now why do we need to be so rude? i did not start this thread to get such negativity. why with the insults? if you dont like what is being said then dont read the thread. there is no need in being a putz. now please lets all just play nice.


pok

Facts are facts, and by their very definition they exist and are real. This whole thread has been less about that than about whether we can prove any individual concept is, in fact, a fact.

All we can do is use "the established standards," as a previous poster cited from Wikipedia, to conclude that a concept is a fact. If a concept cannot be evaluated against standards and determined to be fact, then the concept itself still exists but doesn't appear to reflect reality. That some people believe in fantasies is a fact, and fantasies when considered within their own framework (mental constructs, delusions, or whatever) may be facts, but fantasy concepts existing in reality are not facts, regardless of the level of one's belief in them.

This is like saying whether a lie is a fact or not. "This sentence does not exist." The lie itself exists, and in that way it is a fact. That does not make the lie a statement of fact. It all depends on the measure you are applying.

<nitpick>The earth and sun don't revolve around each other. They revolve around their common center of gravity!</nitpick>

<aside>When a page says, "This page left blank intentionally," then was the page really left unblank unintentionally?</aside>


OS

If you look at fact on an individual scale then fact isn’t real. For example ten people can look at a car and you can get ten different descriptions of the car. Now are all ten people wrong? But if they arent wrong then how could it be a global fact that they seen the same car? If it were a global fact there shouldnt be much variation or conflictions. For it to be fact there has to be a standard of evaluation which is very easy but everyone has their own reality.

Talking about fact is real hazy when talking about a dream. You have a dream that monsters are attacking earth. Did it happen? Yes but only on an individual reality/fact scale. Simply put fact can’t be talked about without generalizing a sub topic.

first the big bang theory is a theory and not a fact.

secondly, I believe that the word fact is used loosely. I have been told numerous times that something was fact when indeed it was a heartfelt opinion.

A fact has been researched to a certain standard.

I never heard we were not, if we are not then what is?


My 400th post!

dolphins. some bacteria. just because we build machines and buildings does not make us intelegent.



pok

I believe that for now (at least in this time) some things percieved are fact: like the air we breathe. However I do not believe that what is fact is necessarily always fact. I believe we are living in a constant flux where things always change so what might be true and fact now might not be in the future. Therefore the word fact can only be used in specific situations where ALL possibilities have been examined and ALL agree that it is so (refer to my breathing statement)

Do not be worried about skeptics who are quick to believe only what their eyes see in this world as fact.

And that standard being a human one, from a human perspective, from a humans reasoning and logic, from a humans understanding, how much credit can you give such a lowly creature anyways?