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000
Just a note: copying and pasting this seems to have deleted all apostrophes and quotation marks... I'll try to restore them.

Alright, so this is the first time I've ever actually posted this anywhere. It's a long read, but the length was needed. Hopefully there aren't too many mistakes or anything.

I've lurked on these forums a while, trying to get different perspectives on the matter. I consider myself a logical and educated person, but I can't come to conclusions on my own. I am looking for opinions and ideas about this, preferably with some basis behind it. Keep an open mind, please, go through the whole thing.

I have tried contacting several self-professed 'experts' on the subject matter here, but if you have any others to suggest, please let me know.

OK, here goes.

QUOTE
I am currently a scholarship holder at a very prestigious and well-reputed university, and I had a normal childhood with both parents together and involved, and a suburban lifestyle with nothing lacking. A lot of the following information is recorded in a journal I wrote at the time, so it’s not just me typing this up and making it up as I go along. Note that at my core I don’t really want this to be true, so I use the terms "me", "we" and the like loosely. And it's kind of jumbled, it's hard to put all these memories and things into a sequential format. I've never written it in this much detail before, and beyond what's in the journals haven't recorded it as the ongoing event it's become. The journal was written some time ago, and I realize reading through it that my perceptions and biases would have altered the information. The best I can do is take from the journal and more recently encoded memories to form what I feel is the most factual report.

Alright, now this is going to be a pretty hard read for anyone remotely skeptic. I'm a skeptic and atheist myself but the coincidences in this are annoyingly uncanny, and though this may mean little to anyone with experience with truly delusional persons, it feels as real as it does now as I type this.

It started about 6 years ago now, I guess. I knew nothing about aliens - flying saucers and bug-eyed little humanoids, ET, the Alien movies, that about summed it up. One night in the summertime I had a very vivid lucid dream in which I was in some kind of ship. A lot of the things I'm saying were innate knowledge to me in the dream, and some of it was "told" to me; I'll specify which. Innately, I knew it was a spaceship, a base ship from which a certain organization within my species (a non-human extraterrestrial species) operated. I knew my way around, and found myself in front of a creature that could only be described as draconic (I'll include a detailed description later). Again, I knew that this was my superior. "It" (genderless) was not the only thing in the room; there were similar individuals, all distinctive in their own way, some with wings and some that looked like they didn't have them, (later on I learned that when the wings are folded up tightly they don't look like wings at all) and with varying colors - shades of green and black. I looked the same way, and in my mind I knew what I looked like. Anyways, I don’t remember the exact wording but essentially I was told that "we" were originally from a star having to do with "Draco", and that I was an infiltrator, my "mind" (consciousness, being, self) put into a human body grown and implanted by them in order to learn about human society from the inside for the purpose of research and creating some kind of species archive. Earth-generated species need to profiled completely and added to the database, and any potential benefits to our race need to be assessed. Apparently you can only learn so much from the outside, and the human intelligence is extremely foreign to the point where translators were needed to convert certain things into a form understandable to us (likewise, I find it difficult to relate to others how the aliens "feel"). That was where we came in.

The "dreams" were to occur at night from now on; somehow the conscious aspect of me is transferred into my original body for briefings and reports and the occasional excursion in which my help might be needed. If I am conscious in one form, I can't be conscious in the other. I have no clue exactly how this happens, but I know essentially my brain is shut down to the point where the consciousness or whatever it is returns to my original body (my "alien" body), which happens automatically, though it takes an effort on my part to return. (In this world, I couldn't tell you how a TV works for the life of me. Likewise, my “alien” self can't explain a lot of the technology, though I think this is more biological). No two "consciousness" things can inhabit one body. A consciousness can only jump from the original body to ones made custom for it, and it will always end up in the original body unless prompted otherwise. When the original body dies, the consciousness ceases to exist, even if it is in another body, but in contrast, if a host body dies, the consciousness returns to the original form. That all sounds nuts, but it's the best I can do to explain it. We’d been using this technology for ages now, on different planets; the big problem was creating human bodies, which we had to do essentially from scratch because clones are ineffective and you can’t implant into an already-created person. We definitely weren't successful at first - I'm not sure if you know what Black Eyed Kids/People are, but these are apparently our doing, which is funny because it spun off a whole new branch of "paranormal" sightings. The eyes were because we wanted some of our vision enhancements, and the horrible social skills and off-putting behaviour because we just didn't know how to act. It takes a lot to fool people. That kind of goes to show just how hard it is for us to grasp social interaction and family life and all that. (I actually just discovered BEKs under that name recently but they matched exactly with what were talked about in this dream as failures and experiments with new models” of infiltrator bodies) The seemingly only solution was slow but more effective: being born into a human family in as human a form as possible. There's nothing special about me except that my perceptions and intelligence aren't at the average level, or so I'm told, the former from the "consciousness" and the latter either a side effect of this or a natural aspect of my genes. Apparently when I had this first dream I was now old enough to be able to process this information and start doing my job, so to speak. I had to pick some kind of profession that would give me access to some aspect of humanity to be archived. I was dismissed and returned to my human host-body.

Needless to say, I woke up a little unnerved, and it felt so real that I wrote everything I learned in a crappy journal I'd had hanging around. I've never been good at journal writing but I got the gist of it down.

I'd kind of forgotten about it, going on with school and such, but then it happened again and again and again. Now, I don't remember much about the order of the rest of the dreams or their exact content; they're just like any other memory in my mind from that time. It was mainly the same thing, where I went into the ship and I made my report, which was recorded and filed away. Mostly at this point it was about social interactions - how I felt at times, how I perceived other people as feeling, exactly what happened and how it transcribed, voice impressions of different emotions, that kind of thing. They'd also ask about things I was learning in school, basic accounts of human history and their views on how things work science-wise and religion (they already knew about religion but it's something completely unimaginable to them - as in, they can only take it as face value, but can't understand faith or hope or anything like that. Because of this our opinions of humans had gone even lower than before, as the core of our society is knowledge and conquering and love of the self (the self being the species)). Psychology interested them in particular; it’s not that we don't assess our own minds, it's just that it's very innate. We not only project sounds, but our language is very bare bones - word arrangement - and supplemented by the projection of images, feelings, and emphases, not telepathy but a kind of aura that is able to be felt by anyone who is within range. Again, I'm not sure about the nature of this projection but it's waves, not particles, and I'm pretty sure humans can't really pick it up because they lack the proper receptors. Therefore, we know why we do things, and we don't need to study it. Humans are very opposite to this.

There were also dreams in which I wouldn't just report but would perform some service on another planet or on a portion of this planet but in my natural form. I remember the first one, at first I thought I was parachuting from a plane but in reality I'd leapt from a craft and instinctively spread my wings, and I panicked because at this point I was obviously used to not being able to fly, and that being high above the ground with nothing under you is a bad thing when you're a human. That was the first sign, I guess, of things going awry with my model, since for split second being in my "own" body felt unnatural. Another mission was the testing of a new exoskeleton, kind of like a really hyped-up body armor with built-in weapons, very classic sci-fi but apparently real.

After a while of this going on, essentially every night, I began to think it a bit strange, so I told it as best I could to my friend. She's the same way as me; skeptic, atheist, not many illusions about life. She took it the same way I did, from an objective point of view, but we weren't very knowledgeable at the time and didn't think to look anything up on the Internet (neither of us really went on the Internet at the time anyways) so we came to the conclusion that maybe I was manifesting some kind of underlying psychological issue, but we were both a little freaked that we couldn't come to any firm conclusion.

This is pretty predictable, but that night in the dream I got a stern reminder about confidentiality and the impending termination if I spread anything around. I had to keep life as normal as possible given the situations, and telling people I was some kind of alien or something. OK, so it spooked me, but I figured that if my mind was making it up, it would obviously incorporate my daily experiences like it had been.

So it continued, and several months of it going on made me wonder if there was something to it. I didn’t really believe it, but I went to an Internet search and put in "Draco alien" or "reptile alien" or something of the sort, I'm sorry, I don't remember exactly what. I was surprised; there was actually a ton of results. So I started clicking around, and was more than a little worried to find that there was a particular alien type like that with so many similarities. Uncanny similarities; draconic, bipedal, "lizard men", within the size range, with the right colors, with very few discrepancies. I saved the pages (copied and pasted into a word document) and printed them out to show to my friend. I still have the file, with the things that stood out to me bolded. I also have a screen cap with the original file's date still on it. The only major discrepancies (different from what I know from the dreams as opposed to being something I have no recollection of) are the lack of protruding jaws/a snout (though one mentions a snout-like structure or something like that) and the eyes (see the description from my journal).

Reading this information gave me some god-awful chills, and my friend was a bit spooked too, though she was as always logical about it. I'd never seen this information before anywhere though, and indeed can't think of any way I would have come across it, so that was never an issue. We debated it for hours, her questioning me more about the "aliens" and us theorizing about anything it could possibly be.

I'm going to have to be honest and say that I don't remember at this point in time exactly how long it was between then and the next major memory. Needless to say, my "superiors" had become pretty peeved with me at this point, apparently because my human mindset was overcoming my "real" one. This was also becoming clear with what I reported and how I reported it. When talks of the final plans for finishing up research and getting on with (I really hesitate to say this, makes me sound like a bigger nutjob) taking over Earth and getting rid of its present lifeforms, I was remembering and translating my human feelings on the subject. Eventually, I came in one day and managed to present an "us" version of a BS story to push the date back, explaining things like aging and such, which I would not have time to do (we don’t have aging the same as humans do; once you hit maturity there’re no notable stages of development). The date was moved from 2012 (I've since learned that that is a very significant day in a lot of ancient calendars, and I'm not sure if we picked it for that reason or if it's just a coincidence) to about 2025. The truth was, the dream world and my human mind weren't as separate anymore (I had spent so much time in the human mindset, and translating it in the "alien" form that it was kind of leaking over into the alien form), and I was finding it harder to maintain my reports from a non-human standpoint.

Since I saw these as simply continuous dreams still, I reported all of this to my friend.

Essentially my last clear memory was them saying that they didn't want me to self-terminate (or be terminated) at this point so they'd let it go, as I was young enough for it to be passed off as a kid's imagination (who would believe a teenager?). There was also the fact that they hadn't had anyone in my particular host-strain reach over the age of 18 yet (all I know is that they've terminated, I'm not sure if this was their choice or that of our superiors, I'm not allowed to be in the know about that at this stage), and I'd gone rather far, plus my host-body was proving to effectively fit into human society. Because of this potential, they severed my conscious memories; I can no longer remember any content from the dreams, only that I've had them. On occasion I will wake up and remember something fleeting, but no more than a snippet. I have no idea how they did this either.

I still have the dreams, this I know. One thing I always felt after waking up was a weird feeling in my back that I can only assume is my wings, a remnant memory from the dreams of extra muscles that should be there, but aren't. It actually gets to be a fairly intense feeling at times, as though I SHOULD have moving appendages there, and the muscles I'm flexing should work in tandem with them. It kind of reminds me of phantom limb syndrome, where you can really FEEL the limb there, even though it isn't, but you would swear it was if your eyes didn't tell you otherwise. They don’t seem to happen as often now, going off what I can, but I still get them. I just wish I could remember them.

Mid-October of 2007, I came across some paranormal/alien-type sites, and for the first time in 5 years I got that sinking chill that something was definitely not right as I read through. After putting it out of my mind for so long, here was everything coming back, and so many things just clicked into place. There was mention of different types of reptoids/reptilians/Draconians, which brought back thoughts of the various attempts at creating a suitable human disguise in which to gather information.

Now, I give you this account of my experience from the view of a skeptic, meaning that since I have no physical proof that this was, in fact, some abstract alien encounter, I can't bring myself to believe it, but it does intrigue me greatly. The coincidences are often uncanny, especially from the mind of a young teen with no previous knowledge of these things, and it's true that the connections are kind of freaky.




OK, now a description- this is from my journal, mostly recorded right after the very first dream. I'm not sure how reliable some of the information is though, given that it had to go through my self-of-6-years-ago's mind. This is the natural alien form and their origins as was seen in the dreams. I have tried to create rough sketches but I'm not a very good artist, though I've managed to get a few fairly accurate ones for my ability.

History/Origin - Quick evolution, eliminating all other mobile species on the home planet as time and technology progressed. Only microorganisms and large tree-like entities remain (these apparently aid decomposition, produce essential atmospheric elements, and are able to provide for themselves). Planet's name is unpronounceable in a human tongue, planet is in the constellation/arrangement/something "Dragon/Draco". The sky is always clouded, and the clouds glow a reddish color in the daytime, and turn grey when there is precipitation. It's generally hot and dry planet-wide (think sauna). Fairly flat, with plateaus covered by the tree things. The journal says we've been here 300 years, I don't know if that's 300 Earth years though.

Physical

Height - ~8-12 feet

Mass - ~180-300lbs (on Earth?)

Body: Lean, muscular, no soft spots. Two wings, two long arms, two legs, three fingers + three toes on each hand/foot, one opposable thumb on each hand as well. Covered in a layer of something that acts as our skin, harder than enamel and similar to shark skin but highly flexible/stretchable.
Weaponry: Long claws on wings, hands, and feet, sharp teeth, sharp ridge on back, spear-like tip on tail. Forearm scythes are mentioned but I don't know if these are natural or not.

Color: Usually a grass green, can be darker/lighter with lime bits. Eyes are silver fading into black and altering, "eyes turn orange in darkness and use heat to see".

Senses: Excellent hearing (long, pointed ears), scent (large olfactory detectors, reason for long snout), no taste, inside of mouth is also scent receptors), sight (somewhat less sharp than a human's, eyes are VERY multipurpose), touch (numb, as skin-like covering doesn't have receptors for soft/hard etc, but electrical currents and vibration-detecting senses make up for it), some kind of thing that allows us to pick up the "telepathic" communications.

Eyes: Almost 360 degree vision, some of this is peripheral though, and only detects movement. Eyes can follow the bend and refraction of light to get third-person views and look around corners. They can also hyperfocus and give microscopic views of a scene. Eyes can detect a greater range than humans, at least leaning into infrared for vision at night.

Communication: Hissing, grumbling speech. Rudimentary words, no grammar as humans know it. Accompanied by communication that is kind of like telepathy, sending pictures and concepts rather than direct words, so you get an idea of something. No synonyms, use emphasis. So instead of saying huge, gigantic, enormous, massive, you'll get "big" with varying amounts of emphasis. "She is huge" becomes the concept of that individual being a certain degree of large in size.

Reproduction: External, no genders, gametes are all the same. Often done purely technologically nowadays, and though genetic perfection is the norm from natural selection, all developing beings are monitored closely.




This is rather loosely written, basically if something is stated as fact it is fact as I know it through the dreams, or fact in that dream world. I really don't know what to make of this; all I know it's that it's kind of shaken me up at times, and I'm not someone to whom that comes lightly. I hadn't even realized that it had been 6 years without stop until I came across some websites on this kind of topic, and I'm now old enough to really look into it and actively get some answers. And I realize how crazy it all sounds, but I don’t really know what I can say to that. I've never heard of recurring, sequential dreams lasting like this, so at this point I'm becoming more open-minded concerning something a little offbeat. After all, people wouldn't have believed creatures like dinosaurs if there wasn't fossil evidence, but that wouldn't mean they weren't real. As for referring me to psychological therapy, I don’t have the time or resources, and it would definitely interfere with my schooling. As it is, this does not interfere with daily life and does not prevent me from doing what I want and progressing with my life. It's just a constant little nagging presence that usually needs some trigger to come to the surface. I am certainly open to the idea, but from my understanding of psychological problems, this counts as far less than a phobia and not much more than any memory of a significant event.


If you have any questions, anything at all, I will do my very best to answer. When I was younger I presented the idea (albeit a kid's barebones account) on sciforums.com, and they were very patient and accepting with me, and I'm hoping you guys can show the same courtesy. If you want to talk in private, I'm definitely willing to do so, whatever your perspective is. Keep in mind that there is no "believing" me - I have no stance on this matter, and if you think I'm outright lying, feel free to express yourself, and then figure out a reason why I would spend hours typing this up. I'd definitely agree with you if the coincidences involved my exposure to such ideas BEFORE the dreams occurred, but since I only found them when I went hunting for them, I've either got a very uncanny subconscious or something's fishy. original.gif
eight bits
Welcome aboard.

QUOTE
As it is, this does not interfere with daily life and does not prevent me from doing what I want and progressing with my life.

Well, those are the magic words. If they are true, then you are sane as anybody else is.

I am not sure what more you want from a forum discussion. Many people's dreams coincide with elements of fiction, speculative science, other people's dreams... even if the dreamer making the report is unaware that the motif-elements are shared with other people.

One canonical explanation is that dreams, art, literature, creative hypotheses, and much else all come from the same place. The codenames for that "place" are the subconscious, the unconscious, ... , and there are reasons to think that one person's "place" very much resembles any other person's.

An alternative explanation is that cultural icons are simply "in the air" and all who participate in a culture "breathe them in" without always taking conscious note of them. Nevertheless, they become available for the great storyteller within to use as grist for the mill of dreams.

Take your pick, or maybe adopt both, or PM a member here called draconic_chronicler who might then devote a chapter to you in his forthcoming book.

There was one detail that I did not understand. You were keeping a dream journal (good move), but then subsequently lost recollection of the details of your dreams from that time period. Why would your journal not refresh your recollection?

Apologies if you covered the point, but I didn't catch it if you did.
Loonboy


Phew. That was a long read for a forum post. mellow.gif

Your account certainly is interesting.

From the way I read it, there is no way of proving the BEK part or the Draconian part. These were already pre-existing phenomena reported independently. It's possible that you are correct, but it is also possible that you are just keying in on existing reports to make your account sound more plausible. (I am not sure which, as I don't know enough about you or the subject & I mean no offence.) And if you are keying in on them, is that consciously or subconsciously? I don't know.

It sounds odd that a species with the technology you describe and the ability to travel vast distances has only been around for 300 years and has a very primitive reptilian body. Surely development (by human standards) would take far longer than that and over that period, the body changes accordingly. (Again, I am just commenting logically on what you are writing, without judging.)

I also understand that the only evidence to support your account is the journal itself and your own exeriences which have taken place, in your words, in vivid lucid dreams. Logically and scientifically, that's not much in the way of evidence - however the lack of evidence does not negate the report, it only precludes study.

I don't know what to suggest. You could be right or you could just be having recurring dreams.
geek.gif
jelly metal
well that whole thing is completley off its head. i am in no way saying you are psycologically disturbed who really knows whats possible. i beleive the story unless your a person without much to do and gets off making up s@#t. all i know is you shouldnt seek traditional help like psychologist, dr, etc you will just get labelled a nut job. search around the metaphysical or paranormal professions they have a much broader perspective than most and know there is alot more going on here than science recognises. i have had alot of different experiences with dreams where they were feeling like they were real i sought help with it and am closer to figuring it out. go the alternative rout.

good luck
Ins0mniac
QUOTE (Loonboy @ Jan 20 2008, 01:35 AM) *
It sounds odd that a species with the technology you describe and the ability to travel vast distances has only been around for 300 years and has a very primitive reptilian body. Surely development (by human standards) would take far longer than that and over that period, the body changes accordingly. (Again, I am just commenting logically on what you are writing, without judging.)


Only been around 300 years? I'm sure he meant they've only been around Earth for 300 years. No species is ever going to have evolved over such an amazingly short period of time.

Also, do you really think their body sounded primitive? What makes you say that? They sounded quite advanced to me...
Loonboy
QUOTE (Ins0mniac @ Jan 19 2008, 04:21 PM) *
Only been around 300 years? I'm sure he meant they've only been around Earth for 300 years. No species is ever going to have evolved over such an amazingly short period of time.

Also, do you really think their body sounded primitive? What makes you say that? They sounded quite advanced to me...


Ah the 300 years part? I misread - I thought it meant they'd been on their planet for 300 years as their planet was described in detail just prior to that comment.


QUOTE
Body: Lean, muscular, no soft spots. Two wings, two long arms, two legs, three fingers + three toes on each hand/foot, one opposable thumb on each hand as well. Covered in a layer of something that acts as our skin, harder than enamel and similar to shark skin but highly flexible/stretchable.
Weaponry: Long claws on wings, hands, and feet, sharp teeth, sharp ridge on back, spear-like tip on tail. Forearm scythes are mentioned but I don't know if these are natural or not.


Long claws? Sharp teeth? Spear like tip on tail? Sounds primitive to me.

huh.gif
Ins0mniac
QUOTE (Loonboy @ Jan 20 2008, 03:35 AM) *


Long claws? Sharp teeth? Spear like tip on tail? Sounds primitive to me.

huh.gif


Sounds like features that would give a good evolutionary advantage. Would there be any reason for not having them? Why would such features be primitive? Because humans don't have them?
000
Thank you for the responses all!

QUOTE
I am not sure what more you want from a forum discussion.


Mostly just a means of discussion with a variety of people while remaining anonymous, perhaps similar accounts.

QUOTE
There was one detail that I did not understand. You were keeping a dream journal (good move), but then subsequently lost recollection of the details of your dreams from that time period. Why would your journal not refresh your recollection?


Perhaps I should clarify; I can remember the dreams before that one dream in which I was told I was not to remember any. I remember no subsequent dreams, only the ones before this point. I only can't access memories (if they're even in there) of dreams had past that point, only that I've had them. Everyone knows that feeling, you've had a great/terrifying/amazing or whatever dream but for the life of you you can't remember what happened.

QUOTE
It's possible that you are correct, but it is also possible that you are just keying in on existing reports to make your account sound more plausible.


I'm not sure what you mean by this. All I know is what I've been "told" in the dreams. I never said it had anything to do with the supposed Reptilian race, only that they closely resemble what's going on. Same with the Black Eyed Kids; I tried to word it so it didn't seem like I was stating the connections as fact, only that they coincide greatly.

QUOTE
It sounds odd that a species with the technology you describe and the ability to travel vast distances has only been around for 300 years and has a very primitive reptilian body.


They're certainly not reptilian bodies in the least, no way. I'm not sure that there's an Earth creature that bears much resemblance, they're not even really dragon-y. The body is not primitive in the least, I have enough understanding of physiology to appreciate the way the wings fold and the way the legs are designed to get such a big creature airborne, though with the way "we" reproduce evolution doesn't knock off what it should. Though we're not clones, we undergo genetic monitoring to ensure that we maintain the same body plan and mutations are eliminated. For example... I don't think we really eat food, there's nothing in terms of moving animals but our planet and we eat some synthetic stuff on the ship, but we've still got sharp teeth. Useless in nature, but maintained by how we reproduce and our current lifestyle (not exactly natural, flying around in ships original.gif ). Also, we've been around Earth for 300 years (again, not sure if this is Earth years, it was just a concept, probably more accurately translated as "planetary revolutions") but the civilization has been around for a VERY long time, and the species of course longer. In my journal it mentions that the "me" alien is "1331 Earth revolutions" in age, and that this is the equivalent of a 21-year-old in mentality/physicality, which I assume means fully matured. I have no idea what the maximum lifespan is or if this "21-year-old" analogy also reflects the proportion of when the body shuts down from age. Actually, I don't even know if they die from old age at all, though personally I think it's impossible to keep replacing body parts and live forever or something like that.

QUOTE
Logically and scientifically, that's not much in the way of evidence - however the lack of evidence does not negate the report, it only precludes study.


This bugs me to NO end, especially as one of the skeptics always asking for such things, because "we" pretty much never visit the surface in our original forms, so that's out, and though I don't really understand the scientific aspect of the consciousness thing, I'm pretty sure I couldn't bring an object back. The best I can do for now is say that I can give you circumstancial evidence (I can't imagine "they're" too happy with me spreading this everywhere) so if I die sometime in the near future, that might raise suspicions. That and maybe hope that I get enough of the dream that the memories start leaking through to the surface.

QUOTE
search around the metaphysical or paranormal professions they have a much broader perspective than most and know there is alot more going on here than science recognises.


If you have any suggestions, please let me know. I have contacted a few people, but publicists and such tell me they're not open for "interviews" even when I say it's a personal discussion. I contacted the guy at www.reptoids.com, but he's convinced that his "Reptoids" are a helpful species living in a hollow earth, and called me closed-minded for implying hostility. Besides, he has camera strap vortex pictures on his website. grin2.gif
DaTBoYFrOMTeXaS
I feel like I just read the whole bible.

blink.gif
Saraswati
Triple zero, hello
What sort of commentary would you like?

From a skeptical perspective, everything you describe is a first-person retelling of Reptilian Invasion Plan stories that were being told on the internet since before 6 years ago, and your experiences would be dismissed. That does seem like a conflict of interest, you wanting to call yourself a skeptic yet still report fantastic experiences.

If these things are true, a full dna genetic test would prove it. If your human body is really an alien created clone, then you must have been switched at birth, and your dna would not show your human parents as being your genetic parents. A paternity/maternity test would cost you some money, but it would either prove your claims or set your mind to rest that these were either just dreams or at most only some psychic connection to a real alien somewhere.

If everything you report was true, then you were born into the service of the Dark Side, and your future doesn't look very good. Your human body will eventually age and die, like bodies do. And then your mind will return to an alien ship full of displeased superiors.

I once almost died, and had a near death experience. Which showed some alien crossover images because I asked heaven for a next life among a better species. It wasn't anything like your experience.
Ins0mniac
QUOTE (Saraswati @ Jan 20 2008, 01:20 PM) *
That does seem like a conflict of interest, you wanting to call yourself a skeptic yet still report fantastic experiences.


So if a sceptic has a personal experience that is highly unusual, in order to prevent a conflict of interest should he/she not believe him/her self or should he/she just not tell anyone? I'm not sure I can see the conflict of interest myself. I think you can be sceptical of others' claims while having claims of your own, as long as you can accept why other people will be sceptical of you.

Anyway, I don't want to speak on the original poster's behalf but he/she did say they weren't entirely sure themselves whether it was a dream didn't they?

QUOTE (Saraswati @ Jan 20 2008, 01:20 PM) *
If these things are true, a full dna genetic test would prove it. If your human body is really an alien created clone, then you must have been switched at birth, and your dna would not show your human parents as being your genetic parents. A paternity/maternity test would cost you some money, but it would either prove your claims or set your mind to rest that these were either just dreams or at most only some psychic connection to a real alien somewhere.


But wouldn't that depend? I mean maybe the body is genetically human. Just originally "empty" and occupied telepathically. Maybe 000 could tell us more details about his "understanding" (whether true or false) of it if he knows anything else.

QUOTE (Saraswati @ Jan 20 2008, 01:20 PM) *
I once almost died, and had a near death experience. Which showed some alien crossover images because I asked heaven for a next life among a better species. It wasn't anything like your experience.


If there were at least two intelligent life forms in the universe, I'm sure there would be more.
WraithGod
Interesting, I'd want to hear back about a DNA test. And don't contact DC, he's a moron, as evidenced below. xD
SS79
whoops wrong thread wink2.gif
000
QUOTE
From a skeptical perspective, everything you describe is a first-person retelling of Reptilian Invasion Plan stories that were being told on the internet since before 6 years ago, and your experiences would be dismissed. That does seem like a conflict of interest, you wanting to call yourself a skeptic yet still report fantastic experiences.


It's interesting to know that things like this were going around before this started. Can you maybe show me a couple? All I come across is basic descriptions saying they're not very nice. I might think that there was a conflict of interest too, had I known how to do anything but go on MSN and Neopets with my free dial-up Internet back then. I am a skeptic, hence why I'm not jumping to conclusions, taking everything as true, and coming on here to tell everyone they're going to die because I said no. There isn't strong enough evidence either way for me to take a stance. A skeptic doesn't mean that I will never believe in anything along these lines. I just haven't seen enough so far to do so.

QUOTE
If these things are true, a full dna genetic test would prove it. If your human body is really an alien created clone, then you must have been switched at birth, and your dna would not show your human parents as being your genetic parents.


I've actually thought about that (I look nothing like either of my parents or brothers, ironically enough, from hair color to eye color to body type, so one day it'll happen because I've always wanted to know if I was adopted xD) but I'm not sure it would show anything. I know my DNA should be purely human, as our genetic tweaking didn't come up with anything usable as stated above, and I'm pretty sure they used my parents' coding. I won't lie though, that's not written in the journal and I'm not 100% sure on it. I wish I'd learned more about the whole consciousness transfer, and if it was genetic - that's a very good question for me to keep in mind. That would basically be the only difference between my genome and a normal human's, if it has said basis in DNA. And YES, I realize how lame this sounds, and if you want to clear anything else up, please ask and I'll do my best. I just want to try sticking with what I know as opposed to making theories about how things are possible.

Edit: I have a question though. Obviously they can't map out my entire genetic code, that would be ridiculous, so what type of test should I get? Just paternity or is there something else that could make sure?
SteveLove
Without an implant or physical evidence this just seems like dreams.
000
QUOTE (SteveLove @ Jan 20 2008, 06:26 AM) *
Without an implant or physical evidence this just seems like dreams.


Thank you for putting it so politely.

I am obviously open to any side of the argument. For this side, it being simply dreams, I'd like to find documented cases of such sequential lucid dreams that coincide with real-life events, and yet do not interfere with daily life in the form of an active psychosis. That's one major problem... though I've found lots of coincidences about the alien side, I haven't found much on the "just dreams" side. original.gif
Robbo
Are you definately sure you didn't witness some similar event (like a sci-fi show) prior to these dreams? I'm only asking because I read your post moments before I went to bed and then had some similar dreams.
saturnian flame
hey there
I don't want to break your heart, but you should find out more about brain wash and exposure to mind altering techniques. Your experiences are too vivid and realistic to be true, and is more likely that something or someone is interfering with your thoughts.

My advice will be to go online and seek out the Phoenix Journals and have a thorough read about mind manipulation.

Avoid however those 'specialists' who want to draw money from you. Do your homework and use discernment in what you say or you have been told. original.gif



saturnian flame
it is also apparent that you have seen the movie UNDERWOLD' parts 1 and 2

eight bits
Thank you, 000, for clarifying the journal situation for me.

QUOTE
I'd like to find documented cases of such sequential lucid dreams that coincide with real-life events, and yet do not interfere with daily life in the form of an active psychosis.

Me, too. Dreamviews.com is where the lucid elite meet to eat, so you might try there. I know that many of their members try to create parallel dream realities with the richness and detail you report, so you would surely get some useful "just dreams" feedback there.

(and WraithGod, since when has being a moron decreased an author's book sales?)
Saraswati
QUOTE ( @ Jan 20 2008, 05:32 AM) *
It's interesting to know that things like this were going around before this started. Can you maybe show me a couple? All I come across is basic descriptions saying they're not very nice.

An author named David Ickes published a book about it called "The Biggest Secret", in 1999. He was developing his theories before that, since 1990. Others were talking about different aspects of the "alien conspiracy", like planet-x. I have no definate opinion about these writers, but there was probably discussion on the internet before 1999. Some search engines, like google's usenet archives, allow you to specify time/date ranges.


QUOTE
I've actually thought about that (I look nothing like either of my parents or brothers, ironically enough, from hair color to eye color to body type, so one day it'll happen because I've always wanted to know if I was adopted xD) but I'm not sure it would show anything. I know my DNA should be purely human, as our genetic tweaking didn't come up with anything usable as stated above, and I'm pretty sure they used my parents' coding.

Were your parents abducted by aliens? If not, how would the aliens get dna samples of them to use? So if your body was artificially grown, chances are a paternity test would show one or both of your parents are not your genetic parents.

QUOTE
I won't lie though, that's not written in the journal and I'm not 100% sure on it. I wish I'd learned more about the whole consciousness transfer, and if it was genetic - that's a very good question for me to keep in mind.

Your original journal text said they created empty souless human bodies, and a pre-existing soul would block the process. Premature babies show signs of soul too, so they would need to provide their own souless human bodies. If you have human dna, then dna will not be the reason for the transfer process you describe, a mismatch with your parents would only be a sign pointing to your body being a construct. If this was true, I think the aliens would need to hollow out the construct baby's head and insert some kind of alien symbiot or remote control device where your brain should be.

On the other hand, if you have no physical connection to the aliens, if only a psychic dream connection, then you have nothing to worry about. Besides their conquering the earth in a few
years.

QUOTE
Edit: I have a question though. Obviously they can't map out my entire genetic code, that would be ridiculous, so what type of test should I get? Just paternity or is there something else that could make sure?


Paternity/Maternity test, with mitochondrial dna? Either your parents are or aren't your genetic parents.

If they are your genetic parents, then how could the alien process work as you describe? They would have needed to take you just after birth in order to empty out your head and replace your brain. Unless the doctors or midwifes were part of an alien conspiracy, someone would have noticed?
dest_titor1
Welcome to UM (ummmmm what?)

I have had an alien encounter/dream which I do know for certain, but lean towards it being a dream.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...=113347&hl=
Loonboy
QUOTE (Ins0mniac @ Jan 19 2008, 04:50 PM) *
Sounds like features that would give a good evolutionary advantage. Would there be any reason for not having them? Why would such features be primitive? Because humans don't have them?



Such features seem primitive because the vast majority of clawed animals are primitive compared to humans, although yes they would give an evolutionary advantage lower down the scale.

And humans are the only scientifically/technologically advanced, space-faring species I have to compare them to... yes.gif
000
QUOTE
Are you definately sure you didn't witness some similar event (like a sci-fi show) prior to these dreams?


I can't ever be definitely sure, as it was an extremely long time ago, but I don't know what could have triggered such a long chain of dreams like. Back then we had VHS, so I had some Alien movies taped, and in the fifth grade a couple years before it started I watched a show called "First Wave", which was about aliens or demons, I can't remember which. Does the '98 Godzilla count as sci-fi? lol Other than those, I don't think I watched anything that every other kid didn't watch.

QUOTE
hey there
I don't want to break your heart, but you should find out more about brain wash and exposure to mind altering techniques. Your experiences are too vivid and realistic to be true


Well, I did ask for any angles. But what would brainwashing me into having these dreams accomplish? And as for the last part of that sentence... they're too realistic to be real? And which specialists? I do believe in mind manipulation, but none of the rays-into-the-brain kind of thing. I'm also an atheist, and those journals... they strike me as a crazy conspiracy theory and typical religious promotion. What makes you put faith in them?

Also, to my regret, I did see Underworld, the first one, and there is a VERY good reason I haven't seen the second, lol.

QUOTE
Dreamviews.com is where the lucid elite meet to eat, so you might try there. I know that many of their members try to create parallel dream realities with the richness and detail you report, so you would surely get some useful "just dreams" feedback there.


I should join that site, it would be neat to see if I could consciously force myself to have one of the dreams. That would settle a lot. Shouldn't be too big a leap to learn to induce them, if I've already had so many... and since I've been living and breathing these things every night before for a while now, triggering one will be a breeze. Don't know how keen I am about setting my alarm for every 90 minutes though... the dreams you usually remember are the ones you get when waking up right after an REM session (I usually wake up in the morning in the middle of REM, so I usually remember at least one dream a night), so I don't see how that technique would help you remember dreams from REM cyces earlier in the night.

I'm going to try to induce lucid dreaming using a few of their techniques, and we'll see what comes up. I think I misunderstood the meaning of "lucid" though, which annoys me. I suppose they count as lucid dreams, as in them I am still aware of my "human" situation, though in the dreams I "know" they're not dreams. I'll post this there in a while, I just don't know how widespread I really want this report to get, so give me a bit.

QUOTE
Some search engines, like google's usenet archives, allow you to specify time/date ranges.


How do you get to that, and wouldn't the same things be on the Internet now so I could use the easy Google? Even if they were on the Internet back then, though, I wouldn't have come across them. I wish you'd been there when that first Internet search I did actually turned something up, but I guess you have to take my word for it that I had no exposure to this before then.

QUOTE
Were your parents abducted by aliens? If not, how would the aliens get dna samples of them to use?


This is going into theory again, but if they can find a way to take away my memories, why not my parents'? They seem to at least understand how sleep acts on the brain, so perhaps it has something to do with that. As for getting the original DNA samples to copy, that is impossibly easy. You don't have to cut a chunk off a living creature to get that.

Edit 2: I just had a sudden insight. Both my parents hold BSc degrees with Honours, one in Engineering and one in Nursing. When you think about it, that's not a bad choice for trying to end up with a decently intelligent kid who would probably end up advancing into a field that would provide beneficial knowledge to the "aliens".

QUOTE
If they are your genetic parents, then how could the alien process work as you describe? They would have needed to take you just after birth in order to empty out your head and replace your brain.


No, if it was already born it would have a set consciousness (please don't call it a soul, that's a slanted word) and it has nothing to do with something so big and surgical like brain removal. I mentioned that we had to create a human from scratch, as in building the DNA piece by piece, hence my assumption that there is some genetic basis, something inserted into that foundation of life that acts as a receptor for the consciousness from the original body (nothing mechanical, it would be an organic receptor that would allow my original consciousness to reside in that body). I'm sorry, I'm no scientist here or in the dream reality (I'm actually pretty much a grunt, if you must know, if you want I can try to share more about who "I" am) so I couldn't give you the details of how that works. I could try, but I'm afraid I'll find out later and then look like I was making something up. And I'd really rather not get into psychics, I'm rather disdainful of that and though perhaps it involves energies we're not quite aware of (the consciousness has to travel to and from the original body to the human body, though with no senses I am not aware of time or anything while the transfer is going on, so I don't know how long it takes. Perhaps I should stop focusing so much on a genetic explanation (I suppose being human and in a medical faculty would make me focus on that) and look towards some sort of energy thing, sub-DNA; I mentioned it takes an effort on my part to have my consciousness go from original body to host body, comparable to will or self-hypnosis or meditation or something along those lines, but throwing the word "psychic" in there detracts from a scientific explanation.

(Edit: I know this sounds lame, but think back to the TV analogy... if you weren't involved in that kind of industry, would you be able to explain to an alien race exactly how a TV works? A microchip? Hell, a lightbulb? I sure as hell couldn't, lol.)

I've always wondered what would happen if someone tried to wake me while I was having one... that could show speed of transfer or what a body is like with no one home.

QUOTE
Such features seem primitive because the vast majority of clawed animals are primitive compared to humans, although yes they would give an evolutionary advantage lower down the scale.


I might come off as self-righteous here, but though they seem primitive from a biased human point of view, we have what humans have and more. What makes humans "advanced" is their full bipedal capabilities, self-awareness/intelligence, and opposable thumbs on manipulating hands. Humans can also pronate and supinate their wrists. "We" have and can do all these things, but in addition we have quadrupedal capabilities, wings for flight, claws, a tougher outer exterior, and senses that take in more of our environment. One thing we do lack is human facial muscles, but we have other means of portraying subtle ideas and expressing ourselves. With the claws, we kind of had to deal; humans had flat nails, and therefore their tools and technology developed around that. We probably couldn't type on a laptop too effectively, but our technology works with our body plan (higher ceilings, for example! lol). We probably could have evolved into softer forms given our lack of competition on our home planet, but by that time we had control of our natural selection, so those with genes for defective wings have a type of gene therapy while developing, whereas if we didn't have this therapy we might get a population with vestigial wings. You kind of have to be in my situation to appreciate the differences, and I do not mean that in a boastful sense. This conscious triggering of lucid dreams is exciting for more than just getting some answers. grin2.gif
eight bits
Hi, again, 000.

I came across a report on another forum of two posters who revisit a realistic, specific, and detailed setting in their dreams:

http://www.astralsociety.com/as/Forum/inde...p?topic=26188.0

I placed an inquiry there about how long they have been doing this. They do not report character or plot elements, but it is something.

On another point, I hesitated about the word lucid, too. But I think that your recognition of it as "another life," different from your ordinary waking life, is close enough.
000
QUOTE (eight bits @ Jan 20 2008, 08:10 PM) *
Hi, again, 000.

I came across a report on another forum of two posters who revisit a realistic, specific, and detailed setting in their dreams:

http://www.astralsociety.com/as/Forum/inde...p?topic=26188.0

I placed an inquiry there about how long they have been doing this. They do not report character or plot elements, but it is something.

On another point, I hesitated about the word lucid, too. But I think that your recognition of it as "another life," different from your ordinary waking life, is close enough.


Lucid it is, then. original.gif Now you see why I had so many quotation marks in my description... maybe it should be "lucid" instead.

The link doesn't work though...
eight bits
QUOTE (000 @ Jan 20 2008, 09:15 PM) *
The link doesn't work though...

Hmm, the link works for me (by clicking, not copy & paste, since the UM post editor makes a short tag automatically; doubtless a "feature").

If it's some other hitch, then the navigation is:

http://www.astralsociety.com/as/Forum/

scroll down to "Dreams and Lucid Dreaming". The thread is called "Changing reoccuring dream...", OP is Nirimdar.
~ MacDDT ~
QUOTE (WraithGod @ Jan 19 2008, 11:45 PM) *
Interesting, I'd want to hear back about a DNA test. And don't contact DC, he's a moron, as evidenced below. xD

nice Flamebaiting on DC the guy was never even part of this thread
000
QUOTE (eight bits @ Jan 20 2008, 09:32 PM) *
Hmm, the link works for me (by clicking, not copy & paste, since the UM post editor makes a short tag automatically; doubtless a "feature").

If it's some other hitch, then the navigation is:

http://www.astralsociety.com/as/Forum/

scroll down to "Dreams and Lucid Dreaming". The thread is called "Changing reoccuring dream...", OP is Nirimdar.


OK, got to it manually... apparently our Internet is a bit messed up right now.

Those are interesting accounts, similar in a way. That happened to me recently; I had a couple of dreams in which I returned to the same place. It's my university residence, but with a weird, industrial, dog-guarded basement and this GIANT grody bathroom on the second floor with olive-colored porcelain, lol. They're not lucid dreams though, however vivid they seem when I wake up - I get text messages in them, and they often start when I "wake up" in the dream, so when I wake up for real after having one (they're always in the morning right before I wake up) it sometimes takes a few seconds. It's only happened three times though, and it's just a recurring dream setting, nothing at all like these other dreams in terms of feelings and knowledge and my mindset.

Could you perhaps ask these people if, in their dreams, they are actually aware that it isn't the real world, and that they are in fact asleep and dreaming? Or is it just a very vivid dream experience?
eight bits
Sure, if they get back to the thread, I'll do that. They both have been on that forum recently, so we'll see what they know.

MacDDT, WraithGod is innocent, and was responding in good faith to my suggestion that the OP PM DC. Gotta love webabble.

Dragons are mentioned in the original post. DC presents himself as an expert on that subject, and as currently writing a book on it. I do not know whether either proposition is true, but it is courteous to tell a new member who's who at UM.

So, I did. WraithGod, in turn, acted properly to suggest that that was poor advice. On reflection, I agree, both because the reasons stated in WG's post are worthy of consideration and because the physical attributes of the creatures involved have since been further discussed here. It turns out that draconic_chronicler is unlikely to be interested.
000
QUOTE
Sure, if they get back to the thread, I'll do that. They both have been on that forum recently, so we'll see what they know.


OK, thanks.

I have some good news on the dream thing. I saw Cloverfield (awesome movie), and told my friend I was going to have a dream about it, then went to sleep thinking about it. And I did dream about it, kind of... the little crawly things were in it, at least, though it wasn't lucid. I'll try it again and see if I can consistently get something to happen.
MeanBaby_Jean
QUOTE ( @ Jan 19 2008, 07:14 AM) *
Just a note: copying and pasting this seems to have deleted all apostrophes and quotation marks... I'll try to restore them.

Alright, so this is the first time I've ever actually posted this anywhere. It's a long read, but the length was needed. Hopefully there aren't too many mistakes or anything.

I've lurked on these forums a while, trying to get different perspectives on the matter. I consider myself a logical and educated person, but I can't come to conclusions on my own. I am looking for opinions and ideas about this, preferably with some basis behind it. Keep an open mind, please, go through the whole thing.

I have tried contacting several self-professed 'experts' on the subject matter here, but if you have any others to suggest, please let me know.

OK, here goes.

I would like you to explain when you found out that there were no other host-strain aliens over 18 years old that were living. I' ve never heard of a host-strain as it deals with aliens and I would like you to explain what that means.Why do you think that you are the only one left. Does that mean that you are the ony one left or are there more under 18 years of age?


If you have any questions, anything at all, I will do my very best to answer. When I was younger I presented the idea (albeit a kid's barebones account) on sciforums.com, and they were very patient and accepting with me, and I'm hoping you guys can show the same courtesy. If you want to talk in private, I'm definitely willing to do so, whatever your perspective is. Keep in mind that there is no "believing" me - I have no stance on this matter, and if you think I'm outright lying, feel free to express yourself, and then figure out a reason why I would spend hours typing this up. I'd definitely agree with you if the coincidences involved my exposure to such ideas BEFORE the dreams occurred, but since I only found them when I went hunting for them, I've either got a very uncanny subconscious or something's fishy. original.gif

MeanBaby_Jean
How do you know that there is on host-strain aliens left alive over 18 but you?Are their some under 18 somewhere out there. I have another question, you stated "in my life" some where in this report, wouldn't it be the host life?
MeanBaby_Jean
QUOTE (MeanBaby_Jean @ Jan 23 2008, 12:27 AM) *
How do you know that there is on host-strain aliens left alive over 18 but you?Are their some under 18 somewhere out there. I have another question, you stated "in my life" some where in this report, wouldn't it be the host life? I think that you would have been more correct by saying strain existense.

000
QUOTE (MeanBaby_Jean @ Jan 23 2008, 12:27 AM) *
How do you know that there is on host-strain aliens left alive over 18 but you?Are their some under 18 somewhere out there. I have another question, you stated "in my life" some where in this report, wouldn't it be the host life?


I stated I use terms like that loosely. I know this because that's what I was "told". I don't believe intraspecies deceit is common, but it could be "for my own good" in my current form or something along those lines to think that. I highly doubt that's the case but I'll keep my options open - I'm trying my best not to state anything as fact unless I'm sure of it. And one thing I am very sure of is that I'm not the only one out there (again, according to the dreams).

As for why, well, there was only vague mention... according to my dreams, my human mindset was crossing over into my "alien" one, screwing things up, and my identity was getting mixed up. Plus, if someone came up to you and told you this to your face, you'd think them insane. Maybe they would go insane, after a while, if they didn't try to find explanations. And maybe they did try to get explanations and in the process gave out too many details. I don't know for sure, all I do know is that their human host-bodies have been terminated. I suppose they would have had to do some tweaking since I was born; I mean hey, if this is true, I'm not exactly doing my job by talking about this. And if I never remembered the dreams in the first place, I imagine the only side effect would be that weird sense of misidentification in the morning, or that weird phantom-limb-syndrome-like feeling on my back.

Can you point out where I stated that about "in my life" so I can clarify? I tried doing a Ctrl+F but nothing came up.

Tried the dream thing again last night... watched Spider-Man cartoons and thought hard about it and such, but I had a weird dream about chocolate instead... lol.
eight bits
Update: there is now a third report of a stable dreamscape:

http://www.astralsociety.com/as/Forum/inde...ic,28103.0.html

Manual navigation is:

http://www.astralsociety.com/as/Forum/

Metaphysical Forum > Dreams and Lucid Dreaming > Dream locations never change (Johnny Truant, OP)

I have passed along the questions you mentioned to that poster. So, we are "smoking out" reports for the "just dreams" leg of your investigation.

Hope all is going well for you.
the sky is falling!
QUOTE (Ins0mniac @ Jan 19 2008, 04:50 PM) *
Sounds like features that would give a good evolutionary advantage. Would there be any reason for not having them? Why would such features be primitive? Because humans don't have them?


Long teeth and sharp claws are quite primitive. The reason they would not have them is if they are far advanced, they would not need such primitive defenses because their brain and technology would make up for it. A being of such inteligence would rather look like people describe greys or something of that sort. Frail, large head, you get the the picture; its a matter of evolution.

edit: Your brainpower and technology should have surpassed the usefulness of the claws and fangs long ago. Even if they are not completely "evolved away". Then they still should be well on their way.
Saraswati
QUOTE (the sky is falling! @ Jan 24 2008, 06:11 PM) *
Long teeth and sharp claws are quite primitive. The reason they would not have them is if they are far advanced, they would not need such primitive defenses because their brain and technology would make up for it. A being of such inteligence would rather look like people describe greys or something of that sort. Frail, large head, you get the the picture; its a matter of evolution.

edit: Your brainpower and technology should have surpassed the usefulness of the claws and fangs long ago. Even if they are not completely "evolved away". Then they still should be well on their way.


Long claws and teeth, and tail spikes, may not be necessary to lifeforms with the technology to take the place of whatever functions those bodily parts serve. And if evolution were taking place, those features might fall by the wayside. Though 000 described them as having very controlled breeding and selection, And being very militaristic, perhaps the type of creatures who might think that teeth claws and tail spikes were required on a good warrior?

Not trying to advocate the idea that his dreams are literally real, that is beyond my ability to say.
000
Sky, I explained that earlier. Evolution probably would have produced softer form in the way that it would allow such softer forms to survive in a technology society - had it been allowed. As it was, unlike humans, when we first began manipulating objects our ancestry had given us hands with clawed , not flat nails. Keep in mind that human ancestors evolved the flat nails far before they began making tools. What if some kind of dinosaur were to begin using tools? Now, their "hands" were hardly designed for complex movement, but if they were to develop behaviours involving manipulation of objects while still needing their claws to hunt, then any future tool creation would develop around those claws. We've created our technology around our body plan, as have humans (I don't think we'd be efficient at playing a Gameboy, for example), and we control our natural selection and unclawed members/members with flat nails are simply not born. The tail spear is along the same lines. Like Saraswati said, members simply aren't born with defective spears because we would clean up their genes. I can't imagine that there's a lot of variety in those portions of our DNA after all our "purification" over the years. I'm not sure if I was speaking about this in my messages or earlier in this thread, but we strive for a perfect form, and that involves superiority in our physical forms and not just in technology and spread. I don't think there's a land predator on Earth that could take one of "us" on. It's in our nature to despise the frail and weak. It's really hard to explain that disgust to humans, who go way out of their way and spend huge amounts of resources on keeping as many other species alive as possible. Right now I'm appalled at the idea of actively eliminating incredible creatures like the tiger, but to my other form, the aliens would be the incredible creatures, and tigers wouldn't last long if we had our way. Many humans long for other forms; werewolves and shapeshifter legends arise out of things like that, and there's that whole weird furry thing now where people pretend to be animals. There's no way anything like that would develop in the alien culture; it's unimaginable to want any other form. Let me know if you need anything clarified and I'll do my best.

Edit: I'm still trying to get a satisfying sketch done, but I want to get everything as exact as possible... imagine if I were trying to explain cats to aliens, and showed them this: http://www.garieinternational.com.sg/clay/...kervyn_drw3.jpg (not my drawing lol). Now, humans see this clearly as a cat, but if you had no idea what a cat looked like and had never seen anything like one before, there's no way you'd get the right impression from this.

And thanks eight_bits, I went and read that second thread. That one guy wasn't lucid and I've had the kind of continuity he's explained in other dreams of my own, but I believe that's more of a sense of continuity, memories your dreamself has that, when you wake up, screw up old memories of previous dreams. Sticky to sort out, but it's a different feeling than what I got from these other ones when I could remember them. I hope I get another dream in that messed-up version of my residence so I can better compare.

I've started a dream journal, so far I've had one vivid one to write down per night. Nothing lucid yet, and only one remotely triggered by something I definitely consciously thought about, but hopefully they'll give me some more perspective on memory and sensory information in dreams versus reality.
Lightning88
QUOTE
PLEASE, has this happened to you? (ET), Serious opinions, serious discussion only please.


No i've never seen a lizard/alien that said they wanted to destroy earth before,Probly because I'm not crazy,lol

Does anyone else think he's alot older than he says? also you story seems like it was profesinaly writen.lay off the sci-fi movies.
the sky is falling!
QUOTE (silverracerkh2005 @ Jan 25 2008, 07:42 AM) *
No i've never seen a lizard/alien that said they wanted to destroy earth before,Probly because I'm not crazy,lol

Does anyone else think he's alot older than he says? also you story seems like it was profesinaly writen.lay off the sci-fi movies.


I agree. I'm an open minded person, very open minded. But this is just a little to much for me lol.. sounds like something straight out of a movie.. very un-realistic in my opinion.

QUOTE
Keep in mind that human ancestors evolved the flat nails far before they began making tools.

Just like any other creature evolving towards intelligence would develop; human or otherwise. Like I said, it's basic evolution.

QUOTE
What if some kind of dinosaur were to begin using tools? Now, their "hands" were hardly designed for complex movement, but if they were to develop behaviours involving manipulation of objects while still needing their claws to hunt, then any future tool creation would develop around those claws.


They would not begin using tools because if they were of intelligence to start doing that, they would have started to develop traits for that already. (Just as humans had done.) Reptilian creatures like you are talking about would evolve other things besides intelligence, like more instincts. (or perhaps a spiked tail and wings?)

QUOTE
but if they were to develop behaviours involving manipulation of objects while still needing their claws to hunt, then any future tool creation would develop around those claws.


They would have started developing towards a more scavenger type being long before that I would assume; just as humans had done. Regardless of the planet, there would still be things to scavenge. Which would allow them to further develop their intelligence rather than more primal instincts needed to be a predator. Especially on a hostile planet.

QUOTE
we strive for a perfect form, and that involves superiority in our physical forms and not just in technology and spread.


This just doesn't make any sense, it goes against the very principles of evolution. Creatures who have the type of technology you describe would have lost these traits long ago. Their technology would give them superiority over the other creatures on their planet, not their claws and spiked tails. They would have absolutely no need for these traits with the type of intelligence you describe. They would have weapons to take the place of claws and such. (Think Predator) Like I said, it goes against the very principles of evolution. On this planet, or any other.

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I don't think there's a land predator on Earth that could take one of "us" on.

And with an assault rifle in full swat gear, neither could any predator take on a human one on one. We aren't even that evolved yet whatsoever either, and in another 1000 years we will have much greater technology to take on predators than guns and swat gear and will be even more intelligent. The creatures you describe are most likely much more evolved than humans are, and have been a evolved species much much longer. They would have technology that would take place of claws and fangs, and would have taken the place of them way before they got to the point of space travel and telephathy. Which too me seems traits of a species with a highly evolved brain. (ie: A creature evolving towards intelligence)


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Though 000 described them as having very controlled breeding and selection, And being very militaristic, perhaps the type of creatures who might think that teeth claws and tail spikes were required on a good warrior?


This just all doesn't make much sense to me. It seems to go against evolution in so many ways. You either devolop your brain/intelligence and the ability to use tools and reasoning and logic, or you devolop primal instincts and things like claws, fangs, and spikes on you. Not both. One will eventually take priority and develop over the other.

I could understand them being developed towards intelligence, then having the ability to alter their dna to include these characteristics.. but not have both.. Like I said, one will eventually take priority and develop over the other. This just sounds like some dreams that were taking way out of proportion to me. I'm a very open minded person, but I'm not going to let my brains spill out.
Saraswati
I am curious, how many people have dreams of being an intelligent reptilian, and what kind of reptilians do they dream of? And what they might have in common or not in common with user 000?

I can say that, sometimes lately, I've had dreams of being in a species which might or might not be what the dinosaurs could have evolved into if they had an extra 65 million years. But it is nothing like what 000 writes about. And I don't think my dreams are here to invade the earth.
Lightning88
I figured out somthing that if you belive proves this false.I think it worth telling.000 mentions they planed to destroy earth in 2015.The whole end of the earth in 2015 thing came from the fact that the myan calendar ends in2015 alot of people (i don't belive this personly but think it relevet) suggest the myans could see the futre and found out that.so i ask you this.If the myans saw 2015 wouldent they have seen you pushing the date back to 2025? to me this seems like a poorly writen script to a 1.98 movie.but i would love to hear 000's answer.
Lightning88
and another thing why would they need another planet if they only had theirs 300 years? I, like sky think they sound primitive. and also no sex, that sucks! seems to hard to belive to me.what species would give up sex for cloning in oder to hold back evelution? why keep claws if you have advanced weapons. I would say forget the claws and desing invisible suits.Come on anyone who had that tech would not be worring about keeping primitive bodys.
Saraswati
Silver racer,

QUOTE
this seems like a poorly writen script to a 1.98 movie

What is a "1.98 movie"?

QUOTE
The whole end of the earth in 2015 thing came from the fact that the myan calendar ends in2015

Also, I think the mayan doom's date is 2012, though some people say it is really this year because of errors in time keeping.
sunriseofdoom149
sound like an argonian in the elder scrolls series only bigger badder an with wings but back to the topic yes there are things that bump in the night but we have to live with it and untill they go public people who see them hear them get tookin by them will be called crazy
000
QUOTE
No i've never seen a lizard/alien that said they wanted to destroy earth before,Probly because I'm not crazy,lol


That was extremely rude. I suggest you read up a bit on mental disorders before you call me "crazy". I also fail to see how my writing style affects the authenticity. One would assume that if I was capable of getting into university I would know how to string sentences together. Please grow up.

QUOTE
Just like any other creature evolving towards intelligence would develop; human or otherwise. Like I said, it's basic evolution.


In a study entitled "Nails and claws in primate evolution" in the Journal of Human Evolution, Vol: 36, Issue: 1, January, 1999 this was extensively studied. Nails were present on the digits of primates long before the human genus and thus known tool usage emerged. In fact, the last common ancestor of all primates already had nails instead of typical mammalian claws. The ancestors of that ancestor had evolved their claws for climbing purposes rather than for hunting purposes, and it is theorized in the paper that the emergence of nails came from a weight gain in the primate class that made such claws less effective for climbing than grasping and other such movements. You need to separate human bias from your view of evolution.

QUOTE
They would not begin using tools because if they were of intelligence to start doing that, they would have started to develop traits for that already. (Just as humans had done.) Reptilian creatures like you are talking about would evolve other things besides intelligence, like more instincts. (or perhaps a spiked tail and wings?)


That was a theoretical statement on a point you seem to have missed... tool-making in primates occurred only after flat nails had evolved from other factors. I said this to try and get you to think about how tool-making and technological advancements would have varied based around a different body plan for the manipulating hands. Wings don't come from nowhere. The wings are functional limbs with the same essential structure as the arms and the legs, and with their own sets of bones for muscles attachment. I'm sure those limbs were already present and evolved into wings; it's not like wings just sprouted from their backs. As for the tail, it's key to providing balance for all that packed muscle on the thoracic area. A heavier front needs a heavier back to counterbalance, which might be where the long tail comes from. And on a final note. I say "Reptilian" because there is apparently an alien class out there that meets some basic descriptions. This in no way refers to the physiological aspects of the beings in my dreams; they are NOT lizards.

And just a note, it has been postulated by many that members of the Troodon genus may have approached the intelligence of parrots or even chimpanzees. They were certainly up there with primates. However, they still had claws, not nails. The only things humans really developed due to their "intelligence" (aka brain-body ratio) were things that came much later, like our birthing method. Nails, bipedal stance, and other "human" traits were not a result of intelligence.

QUOTE
This just doesn't make any sense, it goes against the very principles of evolution. Creatures who have the type of technology you describe would have lost these traits long ago. Their technology would give them superiority over the other creatures on their planet, not their claws and spiked tails. They would have absolutely no need for these traits with the type of intelligence you describe.


You need to properly understand natural selection: creatures with that type of technology would have lost those types of traits because offspring born with them would now be able to survive - IF they are allowed. However, as I have stated, we control that natural selection. Sure, there's nothing left to hunt with claws and fangs, but we don't allow offspring with lack thereof to be born. Even before the genetic technology, there was still control, breeding programs that allowed only those with the best characteristics to multiply. If you had, say, non-functional wings due to a genetic problem, you would not be passing on those wingless genes. Evolution ONLY works through breeding. People don't just spontaneously grow a sixth finger if it's not in their genome.

Again, you have a great human bias here. There is a muscle in the human forearm called palmaris longus, seen as one of the tendons on the posterior wrist. Now essentially useless, it was vital for our arboreal ancestors. If a member of said ancestors was born without one, it would not be able to swing through the trees effectively and would die. However, we no longer have need of this muscle. Members of Homo sapiens born without a palmaris longus are still able to survive. Now, at least 10% of the Caucasian members of Homo sapiens lack one. Why? Because in their family lines, someone had a genetic code that lacked the instructions for its formation. That ancestor was born without this muscle, and passed on the genes through breeding. Its descendents now lack this muscle. Now, imagine humans found those without this muscle to be inferior and could control who gets to breed, who lives and dies, or even modify fetal genetic code. If that one ancestor who was born without palmaris longus was killed before producing offspring, and any others with this mutation were subsequently prevented from breeding, then all members of Homo sapiens would have still have that palmaris longus. Likewise, though with our technology we have no need to use fangs to hunt, they remain a part of our genetic code because there is no opportunity for natural selection to take place.

QUOTE
They would have technology that would take place of claws and fangs, and would have taken the place of them way before they got to the point of space travel and telephathy. Which too me seems traits of a species with a highly evolved brain. (ie: A creature evolving towards intelligence)


The only intelligent species you are familiar with is Homo sapiens. One of the key points of this is the incredibly different mindset of the aliens from humans, a gap so massive that we can't really understand what the hell you think and do or why. The technology did not take the place of those things. In far more primal days, I can probably safely say that before we developed to the point where we controlled breeding, they were signs of beauty and suitability in a mate. We place a lot more emphasis on the physical than humans do. As I mentioned before, perfection is strived for. Humans celebrate differences; we let the handicapped, the mentally deficient, the extremely short, the genetically, obese survive. To us, major differences like that quite appalling and are not passed on.

I'm sure armor-piercing rounds would probably do the trick. As for things like knives and baseball bats, I doubt most humans have the strength, speed, or reflexes to make good use of them (not to mention that tough layer of skin, which could probably turn away most sharp edges). But not in exoskeletal suits like I mentioned before with our own technology involved. But one on one, no technology involved, there's simply no question.

Finally, it's not "telepathy", I only compared it to that because it is a type of communication that works with receptors that do not receive light or vibrational cues, as human senses do. It is by no means a private, psychic thing. Like speech, communicating in this method broadcasts the frequency (don't get stuck on this exact word, I'm not a physics major ;D ) from the apparatus that creates in, so that any creature with the proper receptors who come in range can receive the information.

You call yourself open-minded, so please try and understand this: the breeding and genetic codes are controlled. We do not allow the diversity that humans do. The anatomical features aforementioned are in no way primitive, only better suited to our choice of lifestyle. You keep talking about evolution, but you need to understand that evolution on Earth (including with humans, as with the palmaris longus example) works through natural selection, which we do not allow to act upon us. No natural selection, no "evolution" as humans know it.

QUOTE
and another thing why would they need another planet if they only had theirs 300 years? I, like sky think they sound primitive. and also no sex, that sucks! seems to hard to belive to me.what species would give up sex for cloning in oder to hold back evelution? why keep claws if you have advanced weapons. I would say forget the claws and desing invisible suits.Come on anyone who had that tech would not be worring about keeping primitive bodys.


Please read the original description and the clarification I offer in my other replies. I've already explained the "300 years" thing.

Human bias, and a very closed mind here... read the explanations I have offered above, and if you can't understand them, maybe take a biology class or two to brush up on your understanding of anatomy, physiology, and natural selection. I also asked for serious discussion, and you're offering not much but your own perspective. It seems primitive because I think you are getting stuck on the claws thing and my use of the word "Reptilian", which in no way refers to the scaled exotherms of Earth. Humans and tigers co-exist; humans are not more evolved than tigers, but are more specialized to their lifestyle. A human could not live a tiger's lifestyle and vice versa because they are not physically or mentally equipped to do so.

Also, as for the "no sex for cloning" thing, there is no cloning, only artificial means of combining gametes. There was never any sex in the first place, really. It was external fertilization. Think fish, I suppose, but with identical gametes and less offspring.

QUOTE
The whole end of the earth in 2015 thing came from the fact that the myan calendar ends in2015


I explained this in my original post, actually. The original date was set around the year 2012 (the year that coincided with the date we set using our time-measuring system), and yes, the Mayans apparently had some prediction for the end of the world, which has really gotten into a lot of people's minds. Now, I might have had exposure to this subconsciously beforehand, but I only later found out about the connection. As stated in my original post: "I've since learned that that is a very significant day in a lot of ancient calendars, and I'm not sure if we picked it for that reason or if it's just a coincidence." I don't believe in mystical future-predicting things like that, so I have no idea how the Mayans could have "seen" that happening, as it's not something predictable by knowing geology (plate tectonics, magnetic fields etc.) or astronomy (potential meteors etc.).

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sound like an argonian in the elder scrolls series only bigger badder an with wings


LOL! You got my curiosity and I looked that up, I assure you they are less like that than the drawing I linked before is like a cat.

And I think I should again clarify, come off the "reptilian" fixation. ;P I only mentioned the word in reference to the reptoid/reptilian/draconian or whatever alien race that came up in that first Internet search I did way back when. Nothing with our intelligence or activity level could be exothermic, our stance is erect and not sprawling or semi-sprawling, we're not scaly... with that skin covering, think more shark than reptile. I can't think of anything to compare the whole creature to.
Saraswati
000,
You sound less and less like a 19-20 student at university.

If your dreams are truth, your comrades might be ready to push your real body out an airlock, right now, for endangering their invasion plans. By your explanation, killing you entirely.

Real warriors would not delay from 2012 to 2025 because one of the crew told their plans. Real warriors would say "the invasion begins sooner, so the puny humans have less time to prepare".
000
QUOTE (Saraswati @ Jan 25 2008, 09:24 PM) *
000,
You sound less and less like a 19-20 student at university.

If your dreams are truth, your comrades might be ready to push your real body out an airlock, right now, for endangering their invasion plans. By your explanation, killing you entirely.

Real warriors would not delay from 2012 to 2025 because one of the crew told their plans. Real warriors would say "the invasion begins sooner, so the puny humans have less time to prepare".


Right now, they're not my real comrades. Right now, I have no physical evidence beyond sensations and reflexes I pick up from the dreams to suggest that they are anything but. I like being a human, I like the sensations and the experience. I like to live. Why not do all I can to prolong it while expanding "their" knowledgebase in the meantime? If I do get dangerous, I get recalled, and since I would NEVER do this to my own species as an alien, I'd be fine. It's the human's mindset's fault. (Sounds smug, but to the aliens, arrogance is a foreign concept. This statement from that point of view is simply logic, fact.)

In our governing system, everyone has a say. Though there are those who generally make the ultimate decisions (getting consensus from all members would be ridiculous), even the youngest are not discouraged from bringing up their point of view should it differ. Since we are all educated the same way and have the same standards and beliefs, there are no real radical decisions. If this IS real, and by no means am I saying it is, then what I am doing right now is being a rogue agent of sorts. As I said, according to the dreams, my human personality is meshing with my real mind, which in turns makes me think differently from the others. The agents are the foremost in terms of knowledge of human psychology, the only ones able to properly explain it and translate it and bring it back to the others. Right now, I am exhibiting human behaviour, behaviour that will only contribute to that knowledge in the end. And the knowledge I have now to bring them is nothing compared to what I will have after living more years, after getting out of school - that's what the delay was about. Humans change so damned much from birth through development to old age, something we don't experience. Though we obliterate all other species, we keep extensive and detailed archives on them - specimens, reports, recordings of sorts - and we like to gather all we can before getting rid of them. It's part of what our society is based on. Perfection not only of body and abilities, but of knowledge and the mind. "The invasion begins" when our archives are completed to satisfaction.

Keep in mind that your perception of "real warriors" is a human perception. And I don't think they're much concerned about any human preparation given what we've learned about how the general population reacts. If I were to give this story to the government, make speeches, hell, make a website, would it make any difference whatsoever? We know now that it won't. Say this is real. My experiences with this website and the things I've looked into in the past couple of months since finding this website will give us knowledge on how humans views things like aliens and UFOs. And with all the skeptics out there and warped human views of how aliens SHOULD be, I'd say we could walk down and start shooting and burning and still have thousands of people bowing down, wanting to be slaves, hoping for enlightenment, or standing around confused, or pointing the blame at each other, or saying "I told you so", or curling up on the ground crying. Hell, I'll bet there'd be thousands who would commit suicide and save any hostile aliens a bit of energy. ;P.

With what I know about human governments and that horribly weak intraspecies pride, I'd say another good plan would to simply be to hijack weapons around the world and launch them. Make North Korea nuke Orlando, Florida, or something like that. Set off a Chinese-made bomb in Moscow. I have no idea how many other "agents" are out there. But again, theoretically, if this were real, why not make the ones in critical positions in adult life conscious of their situation? And if I die in this human body, yet retain enough human memory to be functional in a body that's pre-made to be older, why wait for agents fully immersed as human children to grow?

I don't know what it's apparently going to be, or when exactly, but evaluating human societies from the inside provides knowledge useful for more than just archives. It's all theoretical, so keep in mind that while it seems barking mad, I'm just trying to explain the "alien" viewpoint further. It's sounding much more out of whack for that precise reason. They are not us, they do not think like us at all. The society is different, the "emotions" are different, reactions are different, everything about thought process and memory and perception is completely different.

Also keep in mind that it's rather difficult to explain this from two different perspectives, and definitely keep in mind my disclaimer about my usage of words like "we" and "our". original.gif And that I have no current stance on what this is all about.

Just out of curiosity, should I be flattered or insulted by your estimate of my age? Do you think me younger or older than 19-20?

Edit: I wish I'd worded this as carefully as the initial report. Again I'd like to stress that information about the "aliens" is not proven fact, but fact from the dreams.
The Skeptic Eric Raven
Open minded does not mean we are stupid.Keep that in mind when posting fantastical things.
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