I haven't trashed anyone just merely show my opposition... If all I did was trash people as you claim I would have been banned long ago.

You yourself in the last post have violated board rules by attacking me in an attempt flame bait me etc.

Anyone who is still reading this can check the webpage, and verify that I quoted its contents accurately and fairly.

It is a resolutely pro-science page, offering a thoroughly orthodox interpretation of psi wheels.

False accusations of flamebaiting do not advance the discussion. I called you on a false claim, namely that you were familiar with the site's contents. It is obvious that you were altogether unfamiliar with those contents. You now refuse to retract your adverse remarks.

Fine. All I can do is to recommend that all psi-kiddies bookmark this thread. And the next time any k-skeptic says "where's your evidence?" then the victim should reply "Let's look at what happens when drop-dead evidence about a simple yes-or-no matter is supplied to one of your leaders."

See you around.

I have to say the following:

Vanquish please read the name of the forum again. And yes is a strange forum. But I think is unfair to criticize people in this forum. We come her to this forum to talk to people like us to talk about estrange things and to learn from people like us. If you don't like it please leave. And don't comeback.

Telekinesis I see that as extremely helpful tool. When a fish bowl fell from the shelf, you stop it. when a child is falling from a tree. when a baseball goes for a window, you stop it. and Other millions of moments,like a doctor in an emergency doing CPR can't reach a medication. or a hunter in the woods can't reach his weapon and a bear is coming his way. Etc Etc Etc. So I think if is a way of developing this without technology ( I think is just a matter of time to get a technology to develop telekinesis) will be very useful to the human kind. However I do believe God made us limited so we should be more humble and work harder.

Fair enough, I will admit that psychokinesis could be a handy ability. (Thats if this supposed ability could ever be possible.)

Please don't ever ask anyone to stop posting and leave just because they have an opposing opinion.
That really doesn't say much for yourself, as you're opinions differ from mine! I could just as easily say that if you do not like my opinion then leave and don't come back. But, I do not see the use in expressing ones self in that manner, as I see both sides as having equal input on these controversial subjects.


Regards,
Tom

No one said it wasn't so whats your point?



So because I said I agreed that thermodynamics were at work in regards to the psi-wheel... Where did I say the site was wrong in explaining that TK really isn't at work here.

All I am saying is that when I had posted this website in a thread quite sometime ago people who believed that TK was moving the psi-wheel and not heat refused to accept an obvious fact and continued to defend the psi-wheel as a legit means of measuring TK.

I have no remarks to retract especially in regards to a website that I linked to here well over a year ago.

I still fail to see how agreeing with the findings on the website is a false claim and implies i didn't read a website I was aware of long before you were even a member here. I havent made any accusation against you and yet you continue to attack me.

As far as I am concerned I don't even know what your arguing about because as I see it now this whole post along with others are simply being made in an attempt to make me look like the bad guy here.

I know how to deal with people like you and it's not giving in to anger either I will just simply report you... Stop making your posts personal.



There is no evidence to support TK or at least you nor anyone else can provide anything other then names and speculation.

Fact is the website you provided which has been posted on these boards before does not support the existence of TK in fact it completely debunks the psi-wheel... so why would they use it as evidence to support their claim?

Thank you for clarifying your remark "But it didn't encourage discussion though, the mechanics at work regarding the psi wheel were simply denied even though it's true."

That accomplished, I think that enough about each of our views has been placed into the record that anyone who is interested can come to his or her own decision about the remaining issues which divide us.

Agreed it's about time this thread dies the death it deserves and slips into obscurity only to be resurrected in the future.

Sorry, I was In a bad mood.

This is just turning into a flame-war. I'm considering giving this up because it's turning into the kind of thread I hate.

Explain this? sceptics explain plz hahahahaha i dont think u can thou!hey fellow belivers PK is real do not let any1 tell u otherwise.many ppl in history could even levitate themself as well as teleportation.i dont like sceptics what a sad way 2 live trying 2 ruin ppls belives n goals with their nonsense.i need no more proof.this Norwegian man in this clip is saying it took him many years of hard focus training to pull this off n THIS IS NO TRICK...sceptics i know what u belive lol dont bother.Its a wonderful world of explained n unexplained mysteries. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69GMr3RlpgU&NRClick to view attachment

check this vid its awsome mindpowerClick to view attachment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMe_CGdF-zc

So just because someone tells you it's not a trick you believe them? I unlike you simply dont take people at their word nor do I buy into obviously rigged youtube videos.

You make a lot of bold claims in this post, I don't suppose you can prove any of them... hearsay doesn't count either.

The ninja video is just foolish and the other guy is like the new Uri Geller another obvious fake.

i used to dream i could move things ,but never in real life....If that were possible , I think we would all know by now.

telekenisis is very possible it takes complete balance of the mind, body and spirit. people who try and give up have to look and change things about themselves before putting it down to bulls!@# it doesnt work for them because of their un-alignment. it can be a long road to aligning the mind, body and spirit. if you are a skeptic you probably dont even beleive you have a soul because there is no "proof". this alone is the first hurdle for skeptics plus there is alot more to achiving complete alignment.

TK is real, if you are willing to set aside all reality an are willing to believe without a scrap of proof. Then yes, it is real.

TK is not real, if you are willing to set aside all reality an are willing to believe without a scrap of proof. Then yes, it is not real.

So sad. Peace.

The same could be said of you. But you seem to be in peace enough. So you will forgive if I don't wish you.

THANK u very well said indeed!

Rigged youtube vid??if u think everything is rigged n faked up u need 2 travel 2 those places n see n experience 4 urself, the world u live in is the rigged 1! Is uri Geller proven 2 be a fraud i think not,i think he is the real deal,but thats just me.I think u make alot of bold claims I don't suppose you can prove any of them. i dont just take any1s word on anything i have actually experienced some of this n i know its real. so dont tell me how i get my facts when u simply just dont know! i wish that u will find the truth as i have found it. Peace n Luv2 all of uClick to view attachment

I am simply saying that if TK exists then some should be able to provide something other then old and busted youtube videos...

Here we go again with the whole I know because I experienced this and that which equates to nothing at all. You have presented no facts, no evidence, and absolutely nothing at all you just expect people to take your word for it.

The only claims I make are that videos and pictures are not real evidence and can easily be rigged and that there is no evidence to support the existence of TK. I have yet to be proven wrong on this... In regards to Uri he has slipped under the radar and away somewhat from claiming he's the real deal considering everything he does can be replicated and what not.

it is hard for most people to understand especially skeptics but there is no such thing as reality only perception. reality is based on rules that have been common order for a long time now and the main reason reality seems so concrete is due to the frame of mind of the individual. it takes 'thinking outside the square' to become aware that we create our own reality. anyone and everyone is capable of alot more than science includes in "reality" the big block in acheiving this is to do with the way the person thinks.

There is no proof for either side.
Nonevidence does not equate to nonexistance. I say it twice now on this thread.

You guys need to stop arguing.
If you're going to bash someone over the head for blindly saying something is real, then you should be bashed for blindly saying otherwise, and find yourself some proof.

It makes me sad to see the lack of open-mindedness on this forum.
Even to the believers, they can't accept that something could possibly not exist.

Now all of you simply go your own way.
I'm tired of the argument, it's filled to much of my life. To quote the old saying, "Can't we all just get along?"

Regards to you all.

-Kassiel

im not expecting ppl 2 take my word,i just put my oppinion out ther showing what i belive in.im sorry if i offended u in any way it was not my intension,im not her 2 argue only 2 spread light n meet interessting ppl! im not here 2 deliver solid proof. the proof u got 2 find 4 urself, thats the fun thing about it i think.n how can evrything Uri does be replicated,tell me how 2 replicate how he fixes a clock many clocks even ppl home whatchin on tv their clocks start workin also n they havent worked 4 many years cause they missed parts in them ,how could those parts suddenly be back in the clocks n strt 2 work? May Truth strike u all _peaceClick to view attachment

I don't think he slipped under the radar so much as everybody thought the dude must be dead by now.

No matter how many times you say it, this is never going to be true.... This is quite possibly one of the most illogical arguments someone can make.



I'm not bashing anyone in the head... but if your going to claim you can move something with your mind etc I am going to ask you to back up the claim... Not one person since I joined this site has been willing to cooperate in the slightest regarding TK including you.



You are simply taking what people say here far to personally... If you dont like what people post here then perhaps these boards aren't for you.



I have no problem with anyone here, I don't hold a grudge against anyone either and most of us do get along here fairly well although sometimes we clash with one another...

To quote another old saying "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."

Debate will happen here regardless of whether you want it to or not this is a fact and one that will likely not change for as long as these forums exist.



As long as you claim TK exists people will ask you to prove this claim... Everyone here is interesting also once you get to know em.

I have tried to find proof to support TK and came up empty handed, fact is there is simply no evidence to support the existence of TK.



Actually he doesn't really fix the clocks at home etc... So he can hire a few actors to say that this happened etc but I have watched many specials where they claim oh this will happen in your house and it never happens.... Your just assuming he is messing with the clocks in the homes of the tv audience... Basically he lied and you believed him.

Simple misdirection and telling you what you want to hear is all he does.

Actually he doesn't really fix the clocks at home etc... So he can hire a few actors to say that this happened etc but I have watched many specials where they claim oh this will happen in your house and it never happens.... Your just assuming he is messing with the clocks in the homes of the tv audience... Basically he lied and you believed him.

Simple misdirection and telling you what you want to hear is all he does.

Good idea. Give me proof that he lied.

No matter how many times you say it, this is never going to be true.... This is quite possibly one of the most illogical arguments someone can make.
Give me proof that it is not true. Tell us why the human body is incapable of this.

These subjects are like cultures, politics, and religion, in a sense that they have all been developed to control you. Albeit that more people than not need that control. They need the sense of reason and protection.

Why do these subjects dominate? Because they have the control. And how do these subjects gain control? Well it is the same reason when you watch a commerical on the T.V. and say, wow, I really want that. They make you believe they are the better faction.

The theory of telekinesis has a very real relationship with these other entities. IF you release your mind from these controls. You will then be able to see the truth.

Oh but politics are very logical and yet they control you. You are right when saying things should not control you. Therefore I shall not be controlled by skeptism.

LOL, you are lost in you're belief that this supposed real power works for you Electro! If you want to continue letting
it control you, then so be it. As long as you have faith in it, that should be well enough. "Bravo!"

thank yew thank yew

Give me proof he didn't.

I have stated several times why the human body has no need for the abilities you say exist. Your proof we do not need TK is the fact we have evolved to have opposable thumbs and big brains to manipulate our environment. Other proof is the lack of evidence to support such abilities as well.

If the purpose of k-skepticism is to advance the application of science to questions of human capacities, then an obligation attaches to argue from scientific principles.


This is a bald teleological argument. Teleology has had no place in science since shortly after Darwin.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/teleology-biology/

Since you are a Ph.D. botanist (or is it Sc.D. ?), you know, or ought to know, that contemporary scientific opinion is that the prevalence of traits is determined by selective advantage, not "need."


And this is "the absence of evidence is evidence of absence."

The status of a negative search result depends on the thoroughness of the search, as well as the credibility of alternative hypotheses in light of the result.

Example: I lost my spare car key the other day, and it failed to turn up after what impressed me as a reasonable, even uneconomically lavish, search. Eventually, it did turn up, after I had deployed one of the usual expedients for extending search (in this case, re-examining places already investigated, but from a different vantage point).

Under the "A of E is E of A" heuristic, I ought to have given up when I reached into my pocket, and the key was not there.

In a closer analysis, my failed grab for the key was "evidence of absence" in the narrow and trivial sense that it did increase the prospects that I had simply lost the key (obviously impossible had the grab been successful).

Nevertheless, it is simply absurd to reason from "My key is not where I thought it was" to the conclusion "therefore, I shouldn't look for it."

And there is a third illegitimate argument in your post, and that is in your new sig. How nice that you are Dr. AtheistGod Botanist. Arguments from authority have no place in scientific discourse. Oh yes, you didn't mean it as an argument, it just showed up in your sig.

Successful scientific arguments convince. If yours do not, then do not blame your audience. Oh, they're too young, they're neurotic, they have low self-esteem, ... etc.

If you believe that your audience is incapable of rational thought, then why are you corresponding with them? And if they are capable of rational thought, and you have failed to convince them, then it is your burden to make better arguments, not theirs to be convinced by whatever you choose to serve up.

Feel free to report this post to a moderator, too. Arguments from intimidation are also impermissible in scientific discourse.

Traits are determined by your surrounding environment and we 'need' these traits to adapt to our surrounding environments to give us the advantage over other species. We simply do not need these powers to give us the advantage and keep progressing which is why we don't have them.

If we had evolved to have such abilities then there would be no debate here... There isn't one anyway as far as I'm concerned or at least not until something is brought to the table to start one anyway.

The key word in your post is 'opinion' and there are endless opinions regarding evolutionary theory.



Many researchers have searched all around the world investigating claims of TK and came up empty handed.



Thats a bad analogy...

You knew the key had to be somewhere because it was in 'your' hand.

With TK this is what we get... 'I have this power etc', 'Can you prove to me you have this power', <insert excuse here>.

People claim TK exists but no one or at least the people here are willing to back up this claim with something tangible... If TK existed it would be able to be measured... How come no one is willing to have this power measured?

In the case of TK absence of evidence is evidence of absence... Not only do such abilities go against already established known universal law regarding energy and matter but with all the claims over the years how come nobody has been willing to cooperate and end the debate. Remember we can only in this case rely on evidence and since there is none being presented and since th only way to prove a negative is the absence of evidence there is only one logical conclusion that can be made until something tangible shows up, and this is of course that such abilities cannot and do not exist.



My signature has hidden meaning.... Not related to this specific argument and I will tell you why if you request in PM as the subject matter and plants i specialize in these cannot be discussed here on these boards due to forum policy...



They convince people that are willing to accept it... In case you haven't noticed many people here are simply not willing to accept any argument that violates their perception regarding this specific subject matter. Never the less it never hurts to try..



My main argument is where is the evidence?

If you weren't busy singling me out here and attacking me left right and center as you have consistently done and go and red many of these peoples back posts you will find their general consensus regarding scientific method is one of distrust and disbelief when faced with tough questions and especially when asked to present some evidence to back those claims up by the skeptics here.

You will find that some members here no matter how good the argument will still say otherwise.



I wont report you but I will ask you one more time to stop making the thread about me. So please stop making your posts of a personal nature as I am not the subject matter here but rather the existence of TK.

I honestly do not like to report people but I will simply because I don't have to put up with crap. This has nothing to do with intimidation and everything to do with preventing posts that attack me personally.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

This is a discussion forum. If you post your opinion, then I, along wth every other member, am free to discuss it.

Every time you do so.

I stand for that principle when psi-kiddies post "I don't want to hear from skeptics in this thread." I stand for that principle when you post, too.

If you do not wish to have your expressions of opinion commented upon, then that's what blogs are for.

You are not being singled out, except by yourself. You are the only k-skeptic I know of who criticizes non-scientists for not being scientists using arguments that have no constituency in established science, or if you prefer, arguments which are controversial in established science and yet are presented as if they were generally accepted.

It would be the same if somebody were to advocate "scientific creationism." He or she would be entitled to advocate creationism, but misleadingly calling that view "scientific" legitimately invites comment.

Every time it is done.

You really come off as an arrogant d*******. I bet you're the life of every party.

Why? Because I ask people to stay on topic as opposed to attacking me? Because I address posts point for point as opposed to being malicious?...

You may think I'm a dick (my real name ha ha) and your certainly entitled to that opinion, however I only ask that people stop making posts of personal nature as they violate board rules and are just plain rude.



You are free to discuss what you please however you are not free to attack other members simply because you may dislike them. You obviously don't get the point and I don't think you ever will....



There is a difference between attacking the message and attacking the messenger. You disagree with me on many points and thats good because it encourages discussion... I am just merely saying that you should make your posts so personal regarding me... Whether you admit it or not through out this thread you have been attacking me especially in your last few posts.



Again you have managed to make an entire post dedicated to me.... Cut it out, it's not cool man.

Why? Because I ask people to stay on topic as opposed to attacking me? Because I address posts point for point as opposed to being malicious?...

You may think I'm a dick (my real name ha ha) and your certainly entitled to that opinion, however I only ask that people stop making posts of personal nature as they violate board rules and are just plain rude.
I have those sometimes and I don't complain.

You are free to discuss what you please however you are not free to attack other members simply because you may dislike them. You obviously don't get the point and I don't think you ever will....
Of course. But I do get attacked sometimes. And I only have to find other things or adress the problem via pm.

There is a difference between attacking the message and attacking the messenger. You disagree with me on many points and thats good because it encourages discussion... I am just merely saying that you should make your posts so personal regarding me... Whether you admit it or not through out this thread you have been attacking me especially in your last few posts.
Don't you think these fourms can get a little sensitive?

Again you have managed to make an entire post dedicated to me.... Cut it out, it's not cool man.
Its not dedicated to you. Anyone who is like you feels attacked too. I do that, you do that, everyone does that. But its often easy to see other's mistakes rather than yours.

Give me proof he didn't.
I don't have to prove anything, I am not the one making claims.

The only "scientific" ways to find out anything are to try it yourself, and to compare notes with others with similar interests.

At the moment, nobody has both learned telekinesis and reported this to the world of serious scholarship. Reminds you of claims of an afterlife, right? In both cases, many go seeking, nobody seems to come back, quite a few people fake it, and many more interpet their genuine experiences with much too little critical examination.

In the case of TK, there are several possible explanations for the current situation. Maybe there is no such thing. Maybe TK exists, and it cannot be taught. Maybe those who learn are uninterested in teaching others, or prefer to teach some but not all others.

Maybe the value of having the skill depends on it being rare, so "those who know don't say." Maybe there are ethical problems with disclosure, such as concerns about how some organizations might use it. Maybe those who learn are taught in consideration of their promise not to teach, as simple as that.

As you can see from this thread, anyone who does offer public testimony will be ridiculed and harrassed. That in itself is good reason to dummy up.

Witch burning is socially frowned upon these days, but the mindset that expressed itself in witch burning is obviously alive and well. Witches were burned for their own good, not just civic improvement. As the French say, the more things change, the more they are the same.

Good luck in your quest. Let us know how it turns out, if you are willing and able to do so. And if it is a negative result, then please report that.

Come on now. Thats an easy excuse. Especially since most claiming powers are around the age of 13.

lol
what makes you think dragons are heavy , English Mediveil paintings always squash alot of objcts in to a picture , making evrything look fat and I think dragons would look like those in Dragon Dynasty the movie

Hey , just so you know , I believe that evryone is capable of TK , only that some require a much longer time to discover and control this ability

Ah, Eric. Post #24 in this thread says, in pertinent part


How does the age of the person being so described make that OK? Why would anyone, of whatever age, volunteer to stand in his or her shoes, seeing the result?

Even if the person is a liar, what's with the IQ remark? That is a gratuitous, entirely personal attack.

Conclusion: As you can see from this thread, anyone who does offer public testimony will be ridiculed and harrassed. That in itself is good reason to dummy up.

Possibly! But, this is you're opinion so, I won't condone you for it.

Very well said indeed. Therefore I shall not condone you either.

Thanks for sparing me Electro! I bow to your infinite greatness.

i hope that in about 10 or 20 more years people will become even more open minded to this and help out.

If there is no solid proof in 10 to 20 years, then I suppose you have your answer.

The answer is if there is no proof in 20 years, nobody want to speak of it. It is always better to hide something like that.

Maby it was crack
Never know