Everywhere in the world have the telltale signs of humanity in its' modern exsistence taken an ever increasing toll on the alkaline state of the planet Earth.

Unfortunatly, some see this to be a lifetime to behold when in its' complexity and advance stature can have just anyone live like Kings.

It is classified "average" lifestyle to live in these powerhogging mansions with the introduction of an "upper middle-class. No need to explain the ecological impact that entails...

Unfortunately the reality is, with this current population multiplying starting from the already ludacris population of an estimated 6 billion, how could anyone living with the knowledge that their "common" exsistence is powering your very own demise.

The worst part is it wont be you who suffers it shall be your beloved offspring.

The goverments of the world know the oil industry and the mass production of goods and services is only ever fueling the entire human dilema. This will never change.

Theres already too many people to convert and too much governmental nonsense (clearly nothing relevant can be done) to have any kind of hope for a clean and prosperous future humanity.

What little attempts the optimists and environmentalists have in doing their part will only be noted in accordance to how much effort your individual person put into attempting the radical...Anyone have any relevant suggestions to the modern "humanity machine" dilema?

...?

I highly doubt there is a solution. Humanity has been on the wrong path for a very long time now. Unless theres some radical paradigm shift, I can see no happy outcome for us as a species, or the planet.

Perhaps Mother Gaia will cook up a super disease bug soon, to reduce the vast overpopulation pressure upon her?

unfortunatly something so drastic might be required...we seem to have a serious lack of intellectuals guiding us as "world leaders" clearly if this sort of modern conduct is acceptable.

It's not just "world leaders." It's everyone in the developed world, doing what they can. Becoming much more "green," and limiting family sizes would do wonders.

But then there's the still-developing countries, and there's really no way to check their industrial growth, their slash-and-burn agriculture, and their unchecked population explosion.

I'm thinking this old world is truly ripe for a major pestilence to rid itself of the virulent disease organism infesting it. (That's us, BTW.)

I'll do my part.

I watched a program yesterday and it discussed an issue I've wondered about - the maximum population capacity of planet earth. One Dr. said 500 million to a billion, another said 3 billion... Both numbers we've more than exceeded.



This was another issue in the same program. How do those of us from developed countries tell underdeveloped countries that they can't have what we have, for the sake of the planet?



When we've messed with nature long enough it will cleanse itself of our blight...

I have seen the same or a similar program a while back. As sad and cruel as it may seem to some, I completely agree with the assessment. Being a realist one has to accept the fact that death, on a massive scale, is an integral part of any ultimate solution to the earth's present woes.

How odd that at the moment I am listening to Mozart's Requiem. What a strange topic to stumble into huh.

It is impossible for humanity to survive without destroying other things.

EDIT: sorry for the double post, I had intended to put my other reply in this post..

Becoming more "green" will get you nothing and nowhere. It's a fool's game. Until you can invent a device that has reached the zero point of energy, you are a virus upon the earth, no matter how little of a footprint you attempt to leave.

But I say that as someone who doesn't place too much worry in whether humanity survives or not. If people were to actually live modestly, which means a hell of a lot more than getting new lightbulbs or an ethanol car, sure, maybe humanity could ward off annhilation long enough to migrate to another planet to leech off of, leaving the dead earth in our wake..

True enough from the pessimistic (yet equally as realistic) point of view.

I find it odd how in spite of numerous world scientists' untimely fore-warnings, our world "leaders" seem to constantly overlook or at least find clever ways to divert mass attention. My example is how politicians only seem to address "global warming."

To the common audience the definition of global warming is by no means sugar-coated, but it sends out the wrong message. Global warming is but another symptom of our pollutive actions. To say the world is heating up from greenhouse gases is ignoring the rest of the issues such as global water contamination, over-hunting of species and illegal poaching for that matter as well as global deforestation.

WHERE is the UN on this, how can worldwide deforestation continue .THe amount of money in the world's militarys and the fact that theres more than 500 billionaires out there can put an electric car in every driveway THERES MORE THAN ENOUGH MONEY to end world financial segregation and unite the planet as the humanrace in a Contributional Manner. I mean whens the human race going to wake up and realize were all in this together.


COME ON JUST A SUGGESTION < I DONT HEAR ANY BETTER? actually i havent heard any period... (o'-')=o

The UN in nothing more now than a forum for an intolerant religion. You'd have billionaires bail us out? Are you willing to give away your personal net worth, too? Financial segregation? What's that? I'll PM my address to you, so you can send me half your total wealth. You'd have then done your part. I'll spend it in a green manner, trust me.

save your skepticism for the mirror child. It's very simple to criticize an opinion in an open forum especially without providing any kind of logical input.

You've failed to answer how or why billionaires owe you anything.

This is pretty much what I think as well. The world will not be changed through people's actions unless something occurs that FORCES the majority of humans to do something different or perish.

We need massive climate change, some super bug virus, or an alien invasion to get us back on the right track.

uhm... I think if every person willingly to participate decreasing population would help? Actually I've been thinking, that if I am married someday, I would have 1 child only, or maybe just adopt one. Having 2 children means the population will remain equal, because it's like... 2 human producing 2 human (and the parents will die earlier than the children, which leaves 2 human behind) while having 1 child per family resulting less population in total.

owe me anything? Are you dilusional or just did'nt read what i said.

to egotisticly bring this kind of unnecessary dumbfounded counter-argument to such a topic is exactly what this world needs to be rid of.

I'll get back to offering more opinions as long as I can remember them. They only seem to come to me when im at my busiest. I have a difficulty remembering them entirely. Complexed problems require complex solutions.

It's true. I could start the whole 'plausible change starts with you' argument but that really is irrelevant to have even a third of the population "go green."

Like i said as far as how i conduct my day-to-day routine I will incorporate to the truely best of my abilities the minor changes like recycle that occasional waterbottle i have when im out, save up for the solar-panels and windmill etc...

That reminds me check out ecohome.org they got the right idea.

If your part of the younger 'up and comming' generation you have a moral obligation to consult this kind of lifestyle. Otherwise feel free to add to the plague. God always seems to need more mosquitos and other insect-like nuisances.

Heebrow just meant that to ease the stress on the planet at this time, people who have more than enough money to live on could help out by using their excess funds for the good of the planet. I mean how many people actually need billions of dollars to live nicely? If I had that source of money I would wake up and smell the coffee and say sure I'll contribute to let's say get rid of the majority of the gas guzzlers and replace them with at least Hybrids if not all electric. Yes, in reality, that would be a very difficult feat indeed, but I think that's all Heebrow meant. The billionaires live on a planet that is in dire need and they have the means to help. I would love to send you half my income, but then what'll I pay my bills with and buy my groceries with, (now if I had the surplus, then that's a different story). I would probably think that Heebrow lives in the same scenerio. No money to spare. Unfortunetley billionaires didn't become billionaires by thinking of others, and could care less about the state of the planet they live on.

> keep it real <

Here, Heebrow, let me ease your frantic pace a little. This is the quote to which I was referring.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be advocating income redistribution, in your statement the billionaires can put an electric car in every driveway. Again, I was wondering how it could be the rich owe anyone else anything at all. They earned their money, it's theirs to do with what they wish. Isn't it?

I agree that Gaia will eventually put a stop or a major slow down very soon. Remember we have that 2012 dilemma coming. Maybe not necessarily a total cleansing, but it'll take a bite out of our civilization. Some think (including my daughter) that it'll be mostly a cleansing of the spirit, but I think we need our clocks cleaned, a very noticeable slap on the wrist so to speak.... And to whom ever survives will learn some very important lessons. Like what NOT to do on planet earth.

A side note: Just would like to know if any of you lovely people have ever heard of a song/story (for lack of a better word) called "The Worm and the Tree" by Procol Harum in 1977? It made sense then but makes MORE sense now. Here are the lyrics, check them out, I saved them in Microsoft Word.

Click to view attachment

Come on people, let's get realistic. The earth isn't going to die, and mankind isn't going to go extinct. We all know that humans are too dumb to survive, and too smart to die off completely. Like people said, disease and natural disaster will come. It will kill off a vast portion of life, but we will wake up in time to survive as a whole.

It's not a matter of the planet's ability to harbour life or human survival.

Nature proves to be destructive in its' malevolence. For example; i'm sure there have been planets as complexed as ours as far as life diversity, i am sure there has been at least one in history that has been annihilated by an asteroid.

The difference is we have the ability to control our fate, whereas an asteriod-impact-destined planet was simply fate by nature. It is not the same scenario in our case.

We the human always have choices to make because we were blessed with free will. The issue is that disease and natural disaster unfortunately seem to be the only solution because as a whole we are too selfish to make any real solution come arise.

The problem is sure, the earth is not going to die and mankind won't go extinct, but the more we continue the toxicity of modern lifestyle, THose future generations that will survive will have to live on the parched, extinct of biological diversity polluted wasteland we paved the way for them.

Its a matter of the quality of life we wish our offspring to inherit. Surely the fate of PROGRESSION of human evolution lies in each and every one of our hands.

Honestly any solutions other than reducing the population?? Is there no way every world government sees to mandate birth rates first of all then eventually find an alternate to the consumptive needs of the modern hughmon?

In all honesty I believe the mindful destruction of capitalism in its current form should be blamed on the English circa 1800. This system of caste gave just any man freedom to do as he pleases with no regard to ecological impact(mind you, this was back when ecological impact was the furthest thing from anyones mind).

We're in a lot of trouble with so many of you trompling about the earth as your financial playground. Go hunt another tiger you parasites, see what ya get when your life gets tally'd up human scum.

Ridiculous. Hunting is an extremely minor problem for the tiger. Perhaps you should point you anger toward the non-capitalistic orientals whose folk medicine is the cause of most of the tiger's demise.

Surely your aware that the relentless poaching of a variety of species continues to this day, aside from the legal hunting of all sorts of big game, particularily in North America. Think about how many registered hunters there are. You think with the factors of encroachment on wildlife habitit by humans, these populations could return to a more realistic state?

And then onto the oceans, theres no telling whats going on in international sea's.

Sir hunting of tigers is but a generalized statement about the fact that such a glorious species is carelessly done away with by those tripping on the human advantage. Surely this behaviour displaces too much energy where it had all rights to be and does not go un-noted.

Honestly i think there's reasons why theres such a variety of life even on our planet alone. It's fascinating to observe the system of heirarchy within the animal kingdom. I wonder why those lucky few attain a life status at the top of the food chain, while countless others much inferior to it fester in such vast quantities.

Very good posting. The best one can do is keep one's wits and sense of morality, humility, and tread lightly. Humor and good conversation are welcome reliefs. Kipling wrote of keeping one's wits while all around others are losing theirs. Good advice. Best regards to you.

Yeh might as well sit back and enjoy the ride..

I've got two HUGE gripes with this thread:

1. There is no harshness to reality - only reality. Reality, by nature defies all adjectives because it encompasses all description. It is self-defining.
2. At the sake of sounding fatalist, I believe ALL posts on this thread have lost sight of the fact that existence, as our consciousness can deal with or understand it, is finite.

The idea that any being short of omniscience can decide what "path" is "wrong" is laffable. "Wrong" is an elastic and dichotomatic term which implies a "right path." There aren't two, three, nine, twenty or a billion paths, there is only one - Reality. All of recorded history (and unrecorded for that matter) is a phenomon of physicality called an event - a procession of change in localized space during an interval of time. Have we progressed wrongly in space? Time? Have we processed or changed or developed incorrectly? None of the above. We have only processed and progressed as we have and will.

On solutions: There is zero probability that any part of existence will achieve a "happy outcome." Of what would we come out? (Insert religion of choice here.) All attempts to subjugate nature are futile. Our highest hope should be to imbue the global society with a respect for the world that has created us, and persuade all peoples that quelling personal desire for the greater good is in our best interest. Does humanity make poor decisions? Sure. All day, everyday. But the amount of guilty self-loathing used in these kinds of discussions is getting out of hand. Besides, no amount of forum debate is going to make actual changes.

People seem to want solutions and answers in the same manner: Absolute. If science (better put: understanding nature) has taught anyone anything it should be this: Answers lead to questions, and solutions lead to problems. I don't mean that as pessimistically as it may read. It's just the truth as I see it.

post screwup

i'll take into consideration the possibility of a frustrated and uncalled for theme to the posting "for all failings."


guilty self-loathing, call it what you will. I see it as my own moral obligation to do my part in raising awareness of consumer society. Public online chat forum, perfect location to post a thread on basis of "why the hell not" factor.

...it must just feel good to this sheep to put down others, especially comming from another number.

interesting how, even in a conversation on a topic like this, you still get contradiction. i guess all you really can do is blame each other, obviously of course until you eliminate yourself from the equation, which does take a real individual of course

^
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that is of course, unless your too 'smart' to care

you know what im sorry this got personal, It was my fault for not handling the criticism.
Theres still an underlying theme. Back to the original point of the thread, Anyone have any relevant suggestions to the modern day human dilemma?

Money rules all, any way you can adjust your lifestyle to be far less dependant on coporate sustinance?

Im young so im still basically plotting out my future path to be as ecologically impact limited as possible; I.e. studying to become environmental conservation worker, hopefully to make enough money to buy a plot of land with a house powered self-sustainably, ultimately growing my own food for the most part. That way, im not relying on anyone else to survive and can live as a real individual is what i meant.


ULTIMATELY striving towards dominantly or completely eliminating myself from this selfishness generating machine known as modern humanity.

you rely on them to survive? shows how much you are, in my opinion.