As evidence of the number of threads and members that question the existence of a God it would seem that those who believe are in the minority. However based on statistical world evidence believers hold 84% and of the remaining 16% half are theist and deist yet hold no religious affiliation. Leaving less then 8 % of the population as Agnostic or Atheist. As agnostics sit on the fence between believers in God and non-believers in God it is now evident that only 4 % of the entire world’s population want the term God removed from all documentation including constitution, money, educational material as well as all government buildings and school systems and holiday events. In some cases I agree with their reasoning and adapt to the changes made on their behalf. But like a colossal wedge there seems to be no limit to their ambition to force God out of everything and every place including established religious institutions, universities, hospitals and even private schools.

How did 4% become the majority?



If I may quote a gutsy Minister Joe Wright,who was asked to open the new session of the Kansas Senate, everyone was expecting the usual generalities, but this is what they heard:
"Heavenly Father, we come before you today to ask your forgiveness and to seek your direction and guidance.
We know Your Word says, 'Woe to those who call evil good,' but that is exactly what we have done.
We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and reversed our values.

We confess that we have ridiculed the absolute truth of Your Word and call it pluralism.
We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery.

We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare.

We have killed our unborn and called it choice.

We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable.

We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building self esteem.

We have abused power and called it politics.

We have coveted our neighbor's possessions and called it ambition.

We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of oppression.

We have ridiculed the time-honored values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment.

Search us, Oh, God, and know our hearts today; cleanse us from every sin and set us free.
Amen!"
The response was immediate. A number of legislators walked out during the prayer in protest.
In 6 short weeks, Central Christian Church, where Rev. Wright is pastor, logged more than 5,000 phone calls with only 47 of those calls responding negatively.
The church is now receiving international requests for copies of this prayer from India, Africa and Korea.

Commentator Paul Harvey aired this prayer on his radio program, "The Rest of the Story," and received a larger response to this program than any other he has ever aired.

Your thoughts?

Irish

That is one dumb 96%. But atheism makes up more like 10% in America.

Many people check the "Christian-Non-demonination" box on these surveys. Likely 4% of the US or the Earth's population being atheist/agnostic is unrealistic. The number is probably much higher. Many people also hide their beliefs or lack-thereof, for their own various reasons.

A great many religious people also take part in the separation of church and state. This does not mean they are unreligious, rather they can see the innate benefits of have a government not driven by or run by faith.

According to a bunch of different documents even I'm a Christian. I think that says it all, really.

So there are 5 major religions in the world, so presumably & ultimately 4 of them are wrong.....hmmmm

At least four of them.

What organisation ran this world wide poll and how long did it take to complete ,how many interviewers did the use and how many people did they interview



The Harris Poll^® was conducted online within the United States between January 21 and 27, 2003 among a nationwide cross section of 2,201 adults. Figures for age, sex, race, education and number of adults in the household were weighted where necessary to bring them into line with their actual proportions in the population. "Propensity score" weighting was also used to adjust for respondents’ propensity to be online. it used 2,201 adults out off a population of 303,287,199


Quote
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."


attributed to Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli of England or to Mark Twain, the American author and humorist


In other words statistics will say what ever you want them to say


fullywired

Just because someone says they are this or that religion does not mean they are. It doesn't matter if we're talking about Christianty,Paganism,etc.

One thing about the chart I find intresting is that it seprates Buddhism & Hinduism & both are Pagan religions. Meaning that at least 30% of people are Pagan the chart really does not give a clear picture of what others is., nor what the the number is that that color.

I have a poll similar to this in the religious beliefs forum. I'm trying to see what the forum as a whole believes. It's labeled view point poll. But ya, you can manipulate any statistic if you want a certain result.

Go look in general, there's a pinned topic there on this... it's interesting actually (although not terribly well written)

Also, there's another topic in General that talks about the Briggs and Meyer personality types (a respected personality test). Most of the users on UM are from the most RARE personality types. I'm in the minority here on UM being one of the more common types for the 'real' world.

My point is... UM is a BAD place to find out what anyone believes in general... we have a lot of non-believers and a lot of VERY rare engineer/introverted/judgemental personalities on UM... both are rare in the 'real' world. UM attracts societies oddballs apparently. Me bein' normal... I'm completely entertained LOL

All polls have a margin of error of around 2 to 4% so no mater how you cut the cheese the majority is much higher for believers in God, whether you are Jewish, Christian, Moslem or other religions.

What percentage of the population should over ride the rights and dictate how the rest majority feels?

Irish

I'm not trying to find out what the world believes, I want to find out what UM believes. Also, could you link me to the personality type topic.

A very nice demonstration of ignorance. There is much greater than 2-4% margin of error, when you poll two thousand out of six billion people.

A Reminder to Attack the statistics Not the poster, how did you arrive at two thousand participants?

Fine, mod father. There is much greater than 2-4% margin of error, when you poll two thousand out of six billion people.

The Harris Poll® was conducted online within the United States between January 21 and 27, 2003 among a nationwide cross section of 2,201 adults. Figures for age, sex, race, education and number of adults in the household were weighted where necessary to bring them into line with their actual proportions in the population. "Propensity score" weighting was also used to adjust for respondents’ propensity to be online. it used 2,201 adults out off a population of 303,287,199

The percentage really doesnt matter. 4% are not the majority obviously; the issue is that the other 96 percent will fight to the death over whose religion is right(as we have seen on this very forum), so the safest thing to do is to remove religion from the equation completely when having religion involved could appear to show favoritism; like in our government.

If the other 96 percent were all one religion it would be a different story, but as it stands that isnt the case.


Seperation of church and state seems like a perfect answer when you look at it that way...in my opinion anyway.

The list was created by the same people who collected and organized this database, in consultation with university professors of comparative religions and scholars from different religions. We invite additional input. The Adherents.com collection of religious adherent statistics now has over 43,000 adherent statistic citations, for over 4,300 different faith groups, covering all countries of the world. This is not an absolutely exhaustive compilation of all such data, but it is by far the largest compilation available on the Internet. Various academic researchers and religious representatives regularly share documented adherent statistics with Adherents.com so that their information can be available in a centralized database.


Hi Fluffy
I agree that there should be a Separation of church and state but in the context of this thread alone I am focused on the one unifying belief in God by all religions.

Sure, this is a link to the tally I did of the people that took the test (it's long, it can take as much as a half hour to complete it, it's also a very well respected test)

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...t&p=1996577

Look how many people have very rare personality types here on UM. (not surprising really). This is also a hard test to "fool" ...

This is very true.

As with most religiously motivated statistical analysis......they are kneaded and plyed untill they resemble the image that was preconcieved.



This is a lie.

There was one Democrat that walked out.
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/wright.asp

I think this sums up the reason for the anger towards Joe Wrights little pouting session:
House minority leader Tom Sawyer stated that the prayer ..."reflects the extreme radical views that continue to dominate the House Republican agenda since right-wing extremists seized control of the House Republican caucus last year."



Where did you get this 4% notion Irish....hopefully it wasn't that nicely colored pie chart you are touting as a representation of....oh geeze you are.

So even if "poll taking, open-Nontheists" are the minority on your pie chart, there is an obvious and clear moral reason for the seperation of church and state.....that is why the minority is being heeded.

I am not sure I understand. If church/state issues are not the problem I am kind of missing the question I think...I am sorry...can you be more specific?

I find it wonderful that so many are questioning and growing.... I know lots of religous folks few follow the bible or any established form, you are correct UM doesnt reflect the real world at all, Life is actaully a beautiful thing and so are the folks. that make up the whole... ... .......




We had about a year ago a KKK membesr move to our neighborhood and the bunch was threatening the mail carrier who happens to be a woman of color we all stood up from community meetings to the post office and upheld a non violent motto, religous beleifs are not exempt.... . this family came around after quite a few discussions and a few visits for the postal inspectors we pooled our resources to raise awareness .......its on us, we have to say no to any kind of bigotry or beleifs that harm anyone, .....
It takes very few to create a new idea as irish is pointing out, organic movement case in point....100 thousand folks give or take hardly anyone yet the impact has been profound..... .... many things are collapsing in on themselves..

religon isnt'the only thing so is the educational system, politics we are on the forefront of change and the ideas of the past have not gotten us to where we want to go so its time to try other ideas..... too many have been hurt..., .... does one stay with a abusive mate no they move on for both sakes...
..

personally I think its a good thing that religion is redefining itself and many are no longer excepting things on anothers authority... but this is not new this has been transpiring over the last 10 years....

I think this is true, more and more people are truly analyzing the idea of a God. Church congregations are on steady downward numbers.

The problem with the "pie-chart" in the OP and the embellished account of what took place in 1996, is that neither truly reflect what is happening in this Western society, indeed the proportions of whats happening.

Actually, we've had quite a significant jump in membership at my church in the last 8 years. But that's not unusual during times of ecomonic hardship, war, and social uneasiness.

Normally you're sorted into your families religion, however when the gov't did a new consensus-thingie, according to what I put down as my religion, I'm appariently a Jedi.

...Man I got a little telling off for lieing for funnies.

But still, statistics shouldn't be used as a foundation. The results are normally very false.

Edit: Oh, well no surprise. It's 4% of the worlds population. That's still a very fast increase from the 1950+

Ahh Irish, You're right! Back to slavery then!

Obviously, you are not familiar with the principles America was founded on.
It doesn't matter what the majority is. EVERYONE should have obvious first amendment rights.
If the majority ruled, do you truly believe the civil rights movement/end of slavery would have happened?
If the majority ruled, then we'd be a Christian equivalent of Iran, but far more scary and powerful.
Just imagine it like this:
Huckabee becomes president.
And you should have a pretty accurate picture of what I mean.

-sqlserver

PS- That's a pretty smart 4%.

Statistics never tell teh story. While these statistics may be gathered properly, I highly doubt they are accurate. In Australia (not worldwide) the statistics of people claiming to be Christian is something around the 60% mark. Yet out of all the denominations in all the churches every week, only 2% of the population attends church. Now, I'm not saying that one needs to go to church to be a Chrisitan, nor that if you go to church you definitely are a Christian. But the 58% difference is certainly an interesting number and makes me wonder how many people who claim to belong to one religion or other are only doing so because that is what they have always done. They may call themselves "Christian" on a poll or census, but have no real desire to think about God, and couldn't really care less whether the word "god" is removed from any pledge or currency (not that Australians really have an interest in the American "One nation under god" debate, lol).

Just a few thoughts.

~ Regards, PA

I see that too Chauncy , churches are closing left and right, catholic schools arcross the country are shut down....Even those that are relgious are allowing their kids to decide, I see this alot..Few are imposing beleifs anymore.....

so many say that there is no reason to hold on to values that no longer are working, if they ever did....

If Huckabee becomes president, I will be leaving the country to be performing research in Europe. I will not be able to deal with a president who doesn't acknowledge evolution when every scientist in the field begs to differ.

My point is when is it?, at what percentage level is it right for a minority to supersede the wishes of the majority? This is more about political correctness run rampant than it is of separation between church and state. The majority here is of god believing religions verses a small minority of Atheist. I fail to see why Jews, Moslems, Hindus etc would oppose these issues because they recognise a supreme deity in spite of all the differences. Therefore it only leaves the Atheists that are adamant about the changes.

All the best
Irish

WHich he will be, just you watch.

I would seriously think about moving to Scandinavia. I have lots of old friends in Sweden. Plus, Scandinavia really seems to have gotten this whole government right. I know Socialism is still frowned upon in America(where I believe it wouldn't work), but there they really got it right.


I happen to know several families personally where the religious parents don't actually force it onto their kids. Instead, the kids are brought up from a young age taught YEC is complete and utter fact. They accept it completely, without knowing how wrong they are, and without any resistance.

To a dane this looks insane!
If that poll was made over denmark alone atheists would fill up 85% atleast (theists most likely 6-7% more), hm could you post the source of this statistic?

I must say though, I am just thinking if all the "religious" people should agree on how to govern things it would end in fourth world war as the religions are too different
Irish does this mean you would be fine if you religious people shared a little? as in people swear on the koran in court.
Then we can put buddah on the dollars
Saturn and zeus would fit well as the blessers "Zeus bless america"
Im just kidding, im not american and not well informed on the issues you talk about, but I am sure a statistic like this is for argumentation within single countries as its aparently a world wide statistic, one which looks so very wrong from within the wonderfull bordors of denmark.

edit: I cant spell I blame thor

Pa. canada, america and mexico are to be sharing a new money or so its rumored. ...few realize that we are converting to a new energy, a whole ecomomy is being based on solar energy....


politics is looking at a woman and a black guy for the first time as a president and so many dont' know that in Cal. they have created an alternate educational system.. its called charters and they are going strong, being payed for with tax payers money LOL its sad its like with anything people get phased out .... so many just don't know whats going on and if they do they think they have a say or things won't affect them.........


when russia and the Us, made peace aerospace collapsed, was their a warning no, or concern for anyone no... we all follow the money eventually and religion is not a good investment anymore....
So many are living lives that are happy and joyous with no gods no religions and people see this...many dont want to be thought of as supporting a eye for an eye philosphy after 9/11..i hear this all the time....

What in the world does this have to do with slavery? out to derail the train or are you just slinging mud!

I am talking world statistics from a non religious or bias website. If you wish I will post American statistics if you promise to not slam me for being a Canadian
Even if the statistic are out by a small percentage the base of what I am saying does not change one bit.
I invite you naysayers to find a more accurate statistical anlysas that reflects the opposite and I shall concede to your arguments

Irish

People can also identify as a certain religion through a cultural/racial affiliation. Even though they may be ticking the Protestant box on the census (which I used to do). It’s a sort of tribal affiliation in my understanding.

For example white people still walk on Ularu even though it is sacred to Aboriginal people. The symbolism of this act is quite apparent to me.

When he was on the Colbert Report, he was asked if he also rejected the "theory" of gravity.

P.S. Don't leave us Cimber!

Although it is off topic I would not swear on any book Bible Koran or Moby Dick, as the dictates of a Christian is to let your yeses be yeses and your no’s be no period.
As for the dollar I would be happy with pictures of Danish pastries


Oh that’s encouraging as a Christian, worship of the Son.

Are Atheists too proud to admit that they are a slim minority in the world, or is it arrogance?

Well, the current world population is an estimated: 6,602,224,175 people.

6,602,224,175 divided by 4% is 264,088,967 people: 264million world wide are Atheist - at least the ones who put so in Gov't consensus'. Since 1950 when people started turning their back on religion. Which is a huge rise over a short period of time.

But, from what you said Irish, you'd want the world to be run by Christians? Because they're a majority?

Shame we have a thing called democracy, which is headed by government laws of seperation of church and state - put in place by a christian (at least for Britain - King Henry VIII.) So that all beliefs are treated equal in a country, and no religion has say so over the country runnings. In Britains case though, it was so King Henry VIII could divorce... But you know...

Well I for one am happy with your post and your statistics as for one it proves I was right all along, I have been saying this and gotten ridiculed for it well now heres some proof . The issues here are not about me being right though, The majority of people who believe God does in fact exsist is great and I for one am excited that it does prove that God is/did/will make an impact. The skeptics will argue that the stats are one sided but does it really matter the proof is that God exsist and also that we all couls stand doing a little better as people the list Irish provided is very true what does that say about us and it will only get worst unless we do something, Don't you agree?
Every single one on this list is true and shows how far downhill we have gotten,


We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare.

We have killed our unborn and called it choice.

We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable.

We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building self esteem.

We have abused power and called it politics.

We have coveted our neighbor's possessions and called it ambition.

We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of oppression.

What are we going to do? Let it get worse, Always a pleasure

Pride or arrogance? They're the same damn thing. And no one is arguing that we're a minority. What does that have to do with whether a large group of people should dominate over the others?

How does the fact that most people believe God exists prove his existance? So you want swearing and pornography outlawed?

Just because the majorty of people call themselves christians Sandee does not mean that thats proof of your God.

On a side note I really hope some of you are not saying that this nation was bulit on christian vaules......

Potato potarto it seems people are arguing over a small percentage than gettining to the point of my argument. So perhaps you can answer for them...

100%, anything less, and someone's rights have been violated.

So if 5% of the population believes in the Great Spaghetti monster we should all eat pasta daily so as to not offend them and make them feel left out?
Hey wait a minute that may not be a bad idea!

I'm having pasta tonight.

Anyway, you can't impose God on pasta. You can't take away the right to eat pasta, just because the majority of people don't approve of pasta. Yet the man you quoted wants to outlaw things as simple as words or pictures just because he doesn't think they're right.

All that god stuff doesn't bother me in the least. If my money has god on it so what, just as long as it pay my bills I don’t care. I will even say the pledge of allegiance, and sing god bless America and fell real pride as I do it. I even bow my head (out of respect) when people prey around me. I think your problem stems more from the other 51% non-christen god believers.

So if you want to plaster your god on every building and street sign, and allow Christian prayers in public schools and functions, then you better be prepared to give the other 51% of god believer’s equal advertising and prayer time.

I don’t know about you but I sent my kids to school to get an education, not to prey to every known god in the universe. That’s what church and home is for.

Ah! Well the minority of atheist would like us to stop praying in restaurants before our spaghetti dinner is that fair? They do not want to see us take time or even allow us the time before class, court or infirmary to ask our God for assistance.