I was watching PBS last night and they had a show about the Mormons. One of the things brought up on the show was the baptism of the Dead. What it said was a Mormon would take the place of a dead person who was not a Mormon and is baptized in that persons name. My question is how do you get your family and yourself off the list. If this has come up in the thread I am sorry and please direct me to the answer.

I did not mention this as Omnaka had already stated that he knew of the open house events.

I am unsure if the Holy of Holies would be open, but I have never been to an open house. I believe that the temple is open, there is nothing closed to my knowledge during the open house.

I have a question and it may sound offensive but I assure you its not meant to be. I was looking for definitions on religions and cults and while looking into cults Mormons are mentioned quite frequently, is there a reason for this?
Always a pleasure

Cult typically refers to a cohesive social group devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding culture considers outside the mainstream, with a notably positive or negative popular perception. In common or populist usage, "cult" has a positive connotation for groups of art, music, writing, fiction, and fashion devotees,[1] but a negative connotation for new religious, extreme political, questionable therapeutic, and pyramidal business groups.[2] For this reason, most, if not all, non-fan groups that are called cults reject this label.

according to this dif. yep we are a cult.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult

I am not sure that you could get anyone, aside from yourself, off the list. The manner of names being placed on the lists of the temple is geneology, people do geneology and when an ancestor has not had the work done, they place the name on the list. To remove yourself from the list, I assume that you would need to contact a temple president. Call the nearest temple and speak with the president of the temple (the equivalent of Eli during Samuel's youth) and speak with them concerning your concerns, they would have more information. Temple information can be found at The House of The Lord. Find the closest temple and you can get the contact information there.

Regardless, we believe the work must be accepted by the dead to be valid. If the dead do not accept the work, the work does not mean anything.

I assume you are worried about someone doing the work for you after your death. Do you believe that the work will harm you in some way?

I might be able to help here.

The word "cult" is a very very shadowy word. It can have several different meanings. Currently when we hear the word "cult" we think of dangerous, mindcontrolling, brainwashing, often doomsday groups. If you look up the word "cult" in the Associated Press writing guidelines, they suggest that journalists not use the word at all, unless they predefine how it will be used throughout the article.

However, there was a time when the word "cult" was ONLY applied to a few groups... LDS, Unificationists, Gnostics, Jehovah's Witness and Unitarians. (sometimes Quakers too). Why? Well, it wasn't because it was a bad slanderous word, it was because at one time, it was just a word to describe Christian groups who aren't trinitarians.

I am a Neo-Celtic Druid. What you think of as prayer and Baptismal ritual I see as spells. For me it would be a disruption of my true Path. In my faith to baptize or cast a spell on a dead person would be unethical because they can't object. It is like I must ask someone before I can do a healing ritual for them. I know the ritual might help them and do no harm, but if they are a Christian they may not appreciate my spell. Do you understand that? I know according to the TV show they have stop doing it for Jews, because they objected. Thanks for the site I will look into it.

When shall pigs fly?

Hello Bee Eff!

I think what you've done is fantastic! You're opening up a channel to explaining the truth about your religion and this is great. I love learning about other religions....

Did you know that the Raelian Religion recognised Joseph Smith as an offical prophet of the Elohim? Not much is said in the message that was given to Rael, but there are so many similarities between what we believe and what Joseph Smith was taught. However, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints have changed/assimilated themselves in order to better fit into American life and I know that some teachings/ideas have been discarded.

As a quick run down - Rael was given a message by a person from another planet called 'Yahweh'. He said that a team of scientists created all life on earth and were mistaken for gods. The Jewish people call them "Elohim" which means 'those who came from the sky' in ancient Hebrew and it is a plural word. The singular word for one of these creators is 'Eloha'. They educated select humans with a new message "the prophets" at each particular point in history and now we can understand them scientifically, they've given their last message to Rael.

1. MORMON BELIEF: You can become a 'God' and 'rule' over other planets.

There was once a man called "Elohim" who grew up on a planet. He was a good Mormon and died and went to heaven and worked his way up through the ranks and became to god of Earth. He created life on Earth and watches over us. People who are good Mormons on Earth can do the same thing and work their way up through the ranks of heaven and eventually becomes gods themselves.

1. RAELIAN BELIEF: Humanity will eventually travel to other planets and create life there scientifically, and will be mistaken for 'gods' too.

Yahweh, the head of the Elohim race, is human just like you and me. He grew up and made a great contribution to his humanity and he earned the right to eternal life (through advanced cloning and downloading memory/personality into the newly cloned body). He then directed the creation of life on Earth and he still directs the watching of the Earth and directs the other creators in helping humanity.

When humanity has overcome this aggressive time in history and when we become peaceful, the Elohim will help us with their science and we will eventually create life on other planets. We will become 'gods' to our primitive creations and this cycle will continue.....


2. MORMON BELIEF: 'Kolob' is the star nearest the throne of God.

There is so much talk about space and God living in space and that heaven is another planet. There is also the belief that 'Kolob' is the star nearest to the throne of God.

2. RAELIAN BELIEF: 'God' does live near a star in the universe.

The Elohim live on a planet which is near a star. Maybe they call this star 'Kolob'? We don't know. However we can see that the message they gave to Joseph Smith was getting humanity used to the idea that 'God' and science/space can co exist together.

3. MORMON BELIEF: Polygomy is fine.

In the early Church there was this teaching, however this was abused by Church leaders who only allowed it for themselves and denied it to women. They also 'married' many many women.

3. RAELIAN BELIEF: Multiple partners is fine - marriage is useless.

We are all different and we can do whatever we want, sexually/lifestyle wise, as long as it doesn't harm other people. Marriage is a legal contract that binds two people together - which is the opposite of love. We can see that the Elohim taught Joseph Smith that multiple partners was okay and that people can do what they like with their sexuality/lifestyle. However, because marriage was a big thing in the 1800's, we can see that this teaching was distorted to the belief that a man can have multiple WIVES.

What do you think of all this Bee Eff?

-Josh

Because mainstream Christianity dislikes our doctrines.

We believe there to be 3 separate gods in the Godhead. We believe God the Father to be the literal Father of Man, both literally each of us spiritually and literally the whole of mankind physically. We believe we, all humanity, is literally progeny of God the Father.

We believe God still speaks to man directly through a Prophet. If this is true all the words of men, men that were not and are not Prophets, are merely words with limited truth held therein. It threatens the faith without works concept. It threatens the creedal doctrines. It threatens all the philosophy that has built up around the Bible. It threatens the authority of all the rest of Christianity.

These views hold implications that mainstream Christianity cannot accept given their interpretation of the Bible.

We are called a cult because we threaten mainstream Christianity's view of the truth.

We are called a cult because those that placed religions on that list were not a part of any of the religions placed on the list.

That is understandable. If you explain this, there should be no issue on the Church's part. There has been issue with the agreement with the Jews before. Some descendants of Jews have placed names on the temple lists following our agreement with the Jews. We try to abide by our agreement, but there are millions of members, and most have long lines of geneology that they are working on.

There is the possibility that one of your descendants would make the mistake, so be sure that your family knows that such is against your wishes should any of them ever become a member of the Church.

In a manner of speaking. We believe Man is literally progeny of God, Deity. Thus, Man is divine in nature, albeit we need help to achieve our full potential. We must live a life that will allow us to become such, and we need God's aid in overcoming the flaws that are part of being a temporal Man. There are no "ranks" in LDS theology, everyone has the potential of becoming like God the Father. To all "social classes" of eternal existence there is Law, anyone may live in any "class" as long as they abide the Laws that govern that "class." We term these "social classes" as kingdoms.
"Mistaken" is an improper term from a LDS perspective. God is a position in relation to us, as well as a title that should be given deference and respect. God will always be God to us, and we will never be God to ourselves. The position will not change.

Your beliefs are interesting though.
Makes sense to me, although I withhold my judgement as to what should be taken literal and what is metaphorical or symbolic. I believe that believing one "knows" absolutely something is to deny the possibility of being wrong. The Jews at the time of Christ were, imo, an example of this error in personal opinion and belief.
Polyandry may also have existed in the early Church, although I am unsure as to how this fit into the Gospel and am unsure as to the accuracy of the claims regardless of the supposed evidence.
I believe self-control is a very important aspect of the process of life we know. I also believe we are physically built as men and women. Why introduce this, sexual physiology, into the cycle of eternal existence if such is unnecessary or not the manner in which God exists? Marriage is important as it binds all mankind into one family.
It is interesting, I disagree with some of the core beliefs of Raelion religion, but I can also respect and agree with some of its beliefs. Brigham Young stated that the LDS Church could not disagree with the facts of science, but qualified this with stating we must be careful with stating that inference based on fact was fact when it was only inference. Thank you for your statements.

For the first time in some 5000+ posts here, I've just given a thread a 5 star rating.

Thank you Bee_Eff, you've shown yourself to be classy, informative, fair, incredibly (almost miraculously) patient, and interesting. Great thread, one of the best I've seen on UM... ever.

Thank you MMW, You always explain things so simply and you have answered a lot of my questions that could be viewed as silly with the utmost respect, Thanks.
I have wondered why your not a moderator, have you ever been asked? Your one of the few here that never disrespects anyone and even when someone attacks you,you handle it with such finesse. Its always a pleasure reading your post and getting answers from you as to difficult and even silly questions.

Always a pleasure


I may be asking a silly question here but the three God', Is that referring to the father , the son, and the holy ghost?
Always a pleasure

yes, because we believe they are three individuals, one god hood. not one person.

Oh no no no no, lol, that is a thankless job. I spent many a year moderating Undernet and Dalnet chat channels... I'm SO over it. LOL.

But you're most welcome, I think it's important for people to understand that the word 'cult' is a precarious one to use when it's not predefined. Dictionaries can be an awesome resource, but they don't always cover popular culture definitions or historical definitions.

Thank you very much for the compliment MMW

Yes, it is a reference to God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost.

I would try to explain it, but I believe the following offers a fully in depth explanation of our beliefs on the subject in a much more eloquent manner than I am capable of. Also, I feel the following are simple enough that a deep understanding of the LDS faith is not necesary to understand the principle. I would hate to state something in a manner unclear and thus cloud your understanding of our beliefs when references as these are available.



Some quotes on the subject:


Some articles on the subject (they are very straightforward and fairly easy to read if you are interested):

Gordon B. Hinckley, “The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost,” Ensign, Mar 1998, 2
Dallin H. Oaks, “Apostasy and Restoration,” Ensign, May 1995, 84
Joseph B. Wirthlin, “Fruits of the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ,” Ensign, Nov 1991, 15
John H. Vandenberg, “Touchstone of Truth,” Ensign, May 1974, 11

Online sources on the subject:

BYU Studies: LDS FAQ
LDS.org>Scriptures>Study Helps>Guide to the Scriptures

Any other questions?

One verse that is commonly used is Jer. 1:5, "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you..." But this verse is not talking about pre-existence. It is talking about God’s ordination and appointment of Jeremiah to be a prophet to his nation. Let’s look at the whole verse: "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."
The Mormons say we preexisted with God, that God and his goddess wife, and they produce offspring who inhabit human bodies at birth. This is a purely Mormon invention and is not found in the Bible. So, they will need to find whatever they can in the Bible to support their false doctrine.
One more point worth looking at is how God uses the word "know." For example, the Bible says that God only knows believers, not unbelievers. "My sheep hear my voice; I know them, and they follow me" (John 10:27); and "...The Lord knows those who are his," (2 Tim. 2:19); and, "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophecy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ ²³And I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’‘ (Matt. 7:21-23). Of course, God knows who everyone is, He is omniscient. But God is showing us that when He says He knows us, He is referring to a salvation relationship.
Therefore, we did not preexist. We are born here in this world and will enter the next.

What do yo think about this, do you beleieve we pre exsiste with god?

================================================================================
===


I think you need to reread that scripture again. And stop combining scriptures that have nothing to do with each other. Cut and pasting allows you to make any point you want to. Look at these people trying to find hidden prophecies in the bible. Yes we did exist with god before we were born. This is not a belief with me but knowlegde.

I believe that our spirits existed in a pre existence, yes.

This claims that the LDS misinterpretted the verse, I claim that you and those that subscribe to the interpretation that conflicts with a pre existence have misinterpretted the verse.

Perhaps, given that we are discussing the term "know" as being imperitive here, we should consider that God had sexual relations with Jeremiah? Such is ludicrous, we are not tied to a single use of the term for interpretation of the entire Bible. The claim falls short especially given early Christian teaching of the concept of pre existent until somwhere between 2-4 AD.

As to further Scriptural reference:


The apostles themselves believed in a pre existence. How could a man, not pre existing, have sinned during his non existence and thus be born blind? And also, note that Christ did not correct them as to their statement of pre existence.

My overall response is that those opposing the concept of pre existence need to find actual Biblical support against it, not just interpretation of scripture. Otherwise, it is only a "he said she said" situation.

As LDS we believe in continued revelation, we do not rely only on the words of the Bible, we rely on the word of God, past and present.

And before you feel to attack that concept, find some support for God discontinuing speaking to prophets.

Paul received a vision that mandated his actions, he was by definition a Prophet. Peter also received communication from God in eating with the publican, also Prophet. Both following Christ's death and ressurection.

Revelation 22: 18-19 are also no threat as when the book was penned it was separate from the rest of the Bible. Thus those verses are merely speaking to the Book of Revelation.

And to further complicate your search for such support, consider Deuteronomy 4: 2 also limits addition to the Bible, at least if Revelation 22: 18-19 does.

My question remains unanswered.
Why does Mormon doctrine say American Indians are either cursed or have been punished by God? I am not trying to be cocky. One of your members could not give me a explanation after stating that to me.

Lapiche

Because they turned their backs on Christ and his teachings prior to the white man showing up.

Because an ancestor of theirs did something wrong enough to warrant his being cursed.

Now, as to currently being cursed, the indigenous people of the Americas are not cursed. We believe they are in the process of "[blossoming] as the rose"



We have not believed the curse to be in effect still, nor do I think that the curse has been in effect through the entire time since the Americas were discovered and settled. I have no clue how long the curse had ceased to hold sway over the people of the Americas prior to this.

Here is the effect of the curse once again:
"they did become an idle people, full of mischief and subtlety"

Does this fit the indigenous people of the Americas? Are the American Indians an idle people, full of mischief and subtlety? If they are, then yes they are still cursed, if not they are not still cursed. You tell me, are the American Indians thus cursed?

An honest answer finally. Is there a background story to this? I am actually interested in the whole theology of it. I am a pantheistic Quaker and opened minded about others beliefs. The members of LDS who showed up at our tribal center during our open house could not give me a explanation. It was as if they were solely educated by the panthlets they were passing out and never read the BoM itself.


Lapiche

As to the native Americans "blossoming as a rose"? I do not know that there is much story surrounding this, it is simply the prophecy given.

As to the cursing, it entails the early portion of the BoM.

A quick and perhaps insufficient summary of the story leading up to the cursing:

A group of six brothers are split, the two oldest rebelling against their father and brothers (and basically God given the story in the Book of Mormon.) Over time they intermingle with the natives and eventually become a decent sized group of people. Those following the older two brothers are depicted as fairly immoral by the standards of the younger brothers. God warns the older brothers and those following them that if they do not change their ways he will curse them. After the fathers death, the group with the younger brothers separates from the one with the older brothers and the family becomes two rival tribes, or nations. Those with the older brothers do not repent, and the curse falls on them. Throughout the BoM the two people war and from time to time a few of one group or the other switches sides, in the end the descendents of the older brothers kill off all of the descendants of the younger, the end of the Book of Mormon is documentation of this by the sole survivor, who wanders throughout the Americas hiding from those that hunt him. We have no record of his fate.

The older brothers did various things to warrant the curse including binding one of the younger brothers while on the ship across the ocean and beating him. They are given to witness an angel exercise the power of God against them in protection of the younger brother. And quite a few other offenses.

For a more detailed story, you'd just have to read the BoM.

The Book of Mormon is stated as beginning around 600 BC and ending around 421 AD. The location of events in the Book of Mormon are unknown, speculation as to the locations is a topic of interest for various Mormon archaeologists. Often people make the assumption that the BoM states that these people were the only people in the Americas, this is not true. At various points in the text of the BoM they come into contact with people. The record is not about them, and their interaction does not play a large role in the religious history, and so the abridgement that is the BoM does not include much concerning the natives they encounter.

Our population has grown and more Indians have become educated in the past 3 decades. There might be truth to it.

So the story is about one family's morality and it's effects on their descendants. I think I'll take a peek at the BoM. Sounds interesting.



Lapiche- Peace

You forgot that after Christ came here the names laminites(spch) and nephites applied not to descendent's but those who supposedly believed in Christ and those who didn't. But in the end the nephites became more evil than the laminites(spch).

Addressed here:
"from time to time a few of one group or the other switches sides"

And I wasn't going into the entire story, only into the aspect he had asked about.

The names of the two groups never altered, such as you describe was always the case. Whoever was behaving more like one or the other received that distinction, and such was understood by that group and they did not view the name they had with disdain.

sorry I missed that line.

NP

Have there been any kind of Scientific DNA Studies done to prove as the BoM claims, that the Lamanites are descendants/ancestors of the Native Americans?


Just curious

A friend of mine told me that there HAVE been genetic studies done into the DNA of the indigenous people of the Americas and they aren't the direct descendants from Israel - which is something that the Mormon doctrine talks about.

Anyone able to find this 'study'?

-Josh

I'd be interested in seeing anything scientific connecting the two (Lamanites & Native Americans) myself..

I don't mean to appear cynical & or even critical in any way but i came across this...

Make of it what you will...

extract only:

Attacks on the validity of the
Book of Mormon using DNA data
DNA studies by two investigators


1. Thomas Murphy's analysis of DNA data:

A number of investigators have used genetic and blood testing studies to show that Native Americans are related closely to the inhabitants of Siberia . However, Thomas W. Murphy, 35, chairperson of the anthropology department at Edmonds Community College in Lynnwood, WA went further. He was raised as a Mormon in southern Idaho, and has said that he is "not an active member of the local congregation, but I'm very active in the Mormon intellectual community." 1 He decided to examine whether DNA analysis would confirm that many, perhaps most, Native Americans are descended from ancient Israelites. According to the LA Times,

"He analyzed data collected by a multi-million-dollar 'molecular genealogy' project at Brigham Young [University] as well as other, similar projects that track ancestry from people worldwide via DNA in blood samples."


Murphy concluded that over the last few thousand years, modern-day Jews and modern-day ''Native Americans do not share common ancestors''. ''If they did, then genetic markers would be found in Natives identical to those in the descendents of ancient Hebrews''. He concluded that: "the Book of Mormon is a piece of 19th century fiction. And that means that we have to acknowledge sometimes Joseph Smith lied." However, he believes that "the book might be fiction, but inspired as well."

The Book of Mormon and DNA studies




A final in depth summery:

Are Native Americans actually Lamanites?

.. very enlightening information, thanks :}

Do check other sources than the single study that suggests a position against the LDS claims.

LDS Sources
Book of Mormon and DNA evidence
Dr. Scott Woodward - DNA and the Book of Mormon
Michael R. Ash, Is An Historical Book of Mormon Compatible With DNA Science?
A Brief Review of Murphy and Southerton's "Galileo Event"
Brant A. Gardner, "The Tempest in a Teapot: DNA Studies and the Book of Mormon,"

A non-LDS Source questioning the credibility of the DNA testing done on Native Americans (I didn't do much research, so this was the only one I took the time to find)
Genetic Markers Not a Valid Test of Native Identity - by Brett Lee Shelton, J.D. and Jonathan Marks, Ph.D.

lol! Its funny how you quoted me without my links, I also see where this is all going...(tit for tat)
It's also nice to see you ''flood'' your post with 'LDS sources' (kinda makes it rife for confusion) You give us sources claiming that DNA proves your claims (LDS sources) yet on the last one you counter that. Anyway I find it very strange they can dispute/dismiss DNA testing when for many years they have imprisoned & even sent criminals to their death on DNA testing/evidence? kinda make you wonder.


DNA Conclusive Yet Still Controversial, Carnegie Mellon Professor Says

Science Daily (Science News)

Additional information that may shed some light...

Is The Mormon Church stuck with an embarrassing book it cannot historically support?

The Rick A. Ross Institute

Rebel this is supposed to be a question and answer thread not a bashing thread. I don't know if bee will take what you said that way but.

No sweat danielost...
My apology if i seemed to be 'bashing' there, i don't see it that way, but anyway thats it for me on this topic

Take care best wishes to all & god bless Bee...

The mormon's were founded on the belief that in order for a woman to get to heaven(which is in a spacecraft above her very own planet) she must be married to a man who has high standing in the church, and then they can both be given entrance to the "temple". This is a brainwash cult, dont fall for it! This destroy's a womans confidence as they are given no word in the matters of the home, by mormon tradition meaning they cannot get to heaven without divorce, remarriage, and being prepared in the "temple". You cannot go into a mormon temple without being a member of the high clergy, or if you are being prepared to ascend to the heaven spaceship.

In actually, just like catholicism, atheism, christianity, muslim, or any other religious doctrine that governs your behavior and thoughts, it is brainwashing and mind control.

The "holy spirit" that is the skirted detail of the godhead is the self. How could the system function without the father, the son, and YOU. Without you the system would be non-sense. A peculiar thing here for you religious and unreligious alike...

Here's a scripture from the horribly useless NASB translation of "the bible".

mathew 12:30-32 "He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters. 31"Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.

Essentially blasphemy against the self, YOURself. Let's see then, how does religion destroy spirituality? Get people together to be preached at on sunday, when they could be somewhere else stimulating themselves with true selfhood, instead of being told your a no good sinner, causing guilt that never had a right to be there, and then peer pressure continues the sick masquerade.

Science = religion for atheists

EDIT: technically, worship is defined as putting faith into something. So, as most atheists put their faith in science, they are really worshiping it as their belief system.

Sorry but Mormons believe that if a man and woman and their kids are sealed in the temple. That if only one of them makes it to heaven they all get to go to keep the family together. Nothing in there about high ranking men in the church.



My sister-in-law goes into the temple usually once a month at least. Women do not have any clergy ranking at all. Or at least from the way your putting it.



The reason that men are given the priesthood is not because they deserve it more, but because they need it more.


Actually reading your post more shows that you are the one that was brainwashed.

EDIT: technically, worship is defined as putting faith into something. So, as most atheists put their faith in science, they are really worshiping it as their belief system.

This post has been edited by Zaus: Today, 07:15 AM


--------------------



I do agree with this part

You have no clue about Mormons and our beliefs. The entirety of your post is false.

I got rid of most of your post because it was full of colored text and sized font, I won't post a billboard for a position against my beliefs.

You have only posted maybe one source that was not an attack on the BoM, the one above. I posted LDS sources that refute those claims and then I posted a non-LDS source that attacked the credibility of DNA as a tool. If the LDS sources do not work for an individual, then the non-LDS source does cast doubt on the statements that DNA somehow contradicts the BoM.

You are merely flaming in your posts, you haven't been respectful in any manner since the first post you placed in this thread.

This is a very interesting conversation, and if I may, I'd like to contribute a few comments.
First of all:
Anyone who is not someone who believes in the same things as the Latter Day Saints and goes around telling people that it is a 'cult' or that they 'brainwash' anyone that joins is living in a dilusional state of mind. It is said that You will be given 1 reason to believe for every 10 reasons not to and that there will be opposition in all things. If it is true, you will be told it is true by the spirit of God.

Second:
Keep in mind that DNA goes by Native Americans NOW and Israelites or Hebrews NOW.... not those in BoM times. There has been MASSIVE mixing of genes for centuries and according to the standards of Genetics, there has to be a certain number of markers to relate one group of people to another. This is nieve and closed minded. Firstly, It isn't just the Native Americans that are said to be ancestors of the BoM people. The Mayan culture is one of those that disappeared from the earth, leaving their temples, homes, and other signs of their lives. Science has given them the name "Mayan". Science does this with everything they "discover". This doesn't mean that the name they give was the name the actual people used for themselves. Secondly, I am German, British, Scottish, Norwegian, Irish, Icelandic, Hebrew, Roman, and French. My personal Genetic makeup is comprised of all of these different nationalities and possibly more. Genetics may be able to tie me to one or two, but my family history and ancestory tie me to all of them. So which one is right, DNA or recorded history?

Third:
Anyone who is looking to proove something is true will find it. Anyone who is looking to disprove something will find ways to do it. That is the nature of things. For example, when do you notice EVERY car that has a 'for sale' sign except when you're looking for a car? You don't. It is the same concept.
I personally can give you a milllion examples why the church is true. It is for you to accept it or not. Noone is brainwashed. In fact, brainwashing actually goes against the churches belief in freedom and agency or the freedom to choose for yourself.

I am sorry if I didn't exactly answer the question at hand, but as was said before, the best way to gain answers to any questions is to read the Book of Mormon for yourself with an open heart and an open mind. If I may, however, I would also like to suggest a couple other books that may help with questions about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints ("mormons"): 1- "Mormon Beliefs and Doctrines Made Easier" By: David J Ridges
and 2- "Investigating the Book of Mormon Witnesses" By: Anderson (first name unknown)

One of the things I was taught in church was to question the leadership if something didn't sound right.

I agree with you totally - your points are fantastic! Especially about how DNA tests NOW have 'proven' no connection between the Hebrews and the Indians. We are a mixture of many many races - it's really hard to pin point like you say. In the future, humanity will eventually breed into one beautiful melting pot of humanity - with a mixture of all races.

-Josh