Then why continue to try and pin 'natural phenomena' on the UFO case files in question when highly experience people and the data have already excluded natural phonomena? In effect, what you are saying is; an unexperienced person tells highly-trained experts with many years of experience on the job and their validated data evidence are all wrong.

Is it any wonder then, as to why their cases remained unexplained in earthly terms to this very day? You need to go back and review what you are saying.



Actually, he is and let's do another recap.



General Twining definitely is not refering to stratus clouds nor fog.




The data is straight-to-the-point. Pilots reported visual contact with metallic flying saucers that outmaneuvered their own aircraft.



Pilots are trained to note little details when making aerial observations. Perhaps, you should have studied NATO's aerial ID charts before making such a comment to see just how off-base you are in regards to that response. Many pilots would be insulted upon reading your post. You implying that highly experienced pilots have the eyes to conduct precision ILS approaches, yet they can't differentiate between artificial objects that are maneuvering around their aircraft, and natural phenomena, even though ground-based radars confirmed the objects as well.



Now, that is amusing considering that the flying saucers were visually identified and details noted on those ojbects and the data tapes and communication tapes were examined in Washington D.C., which confirmed that the UFOs were in fact, artificial flying objects, and when the UFOs were determined to be artificial flying objects, the FAA became involved in the investigations because those obviously artificial flying saucers had violated FAA airspace regulations.

Once again, you have to be careful on what you post because someone will correct you, as has been the case on many occasions already.

So what you are implying is, this vehicle could very well be some freak atmospheric phenomena that has never been encountered before.





http://www.us-army-info.com/pages/pics/gal...mages/hum19.jpg

Hmm. I would agree, except for the fact that the USAF officially declared that they had retrieved a flying saucer, but suddenly they changed their story. How could they mistake a disc-shaped craft for weather balloons, especially ones that were originally supposed to have been dispatched by them in the first place? An alien craft did crash there. It's undeniable.

UFO?

im guessing not, and youre posting it up here, in hopes we say 'yeah sure' and then you tell us 'nope. it just looooks like one'. possibly trying to say thats how the army/airforce mixed it up.

(although i could be Totally wrong here)

No, you're sort of on the right track. It's one of Frank Sharman's Girostat Micro Airships (a balloon). Of course, because I presented it (and most of the people here are reasonably intelligent), hopefully everyone just went "hmmm, what's going on here? He's up to something..."
Now if Stanton Friedman had put in a book with some eyewitness testimony, I wonder if the reaction would be a little different...

I wouldn't know - I can't access the site. I have a download manager installed on my laptop and apparently they don't allow those for some reason or other

Cheers,
Badeskov

Actually, on that note I took some pictures of cloud formations over the mountains where I live. They were extraordinarily odd and almost perfectly round. I attached a single picture here (yeah, I know it is OT;)).

Cheers,
Badeskov

Well I don't know what Roswell was all about, but think of this. These guys supposedly come from somewhere far away that has to be done with technowledgy beyond what we can imagine, and yet they can't seem to fly better than a 16 year old driver with his first car? Second point would be that they are anywhere I am guessing between 10000 to 1000000 years advanced than us, but they haven't figured out the idea of bending light so that they would be virtually invisible? We are on the verge of doing that ourselves. But like I said I really don't have any opinion on Roswell itself. Just that I find it really hard to believe that some alien craft crashed.

P.S. IF it really did happen, what do you think the possibilities would be that they would allow us to hold onto such objects as their spaceship or alien bodies?

Nice try, Sky, but that's a no go. I still stand fast on that while some phenomena has been excluded, others have not and can thus not be ruled out as the source for some sightings.



No, I am saying unexperienced people in such phenomena are relating the fact that certain phenomena has been excluded as all weather phenomena has been excluded. That is simply not the fact. Only some weather phenomena has been excluded, and that is far from all encompassing



No, and that is how it should be. When it doesn't measure up to scientific scrutiny, well, then all we can do is speculate.



Nor is he referring to ET in the above. It is a leap to come to that conclusion. You might believe that is what he meant, but that does not make it a fact in any way, shape or form.



Again, they were metallic looking. That certainly doesn't make them metallic. And it doesn't make them ET either.



I have no intention of insulting anybody, but it is a psychological fact that experts in various fields, pilots included, have a tendency to over-interpretation and to try and put unknowns in to a known frame of reference. It is simply an instinct due to intense training.



No, something was violating FAA airspace regulations and we still don't know what it was.



I am still waiting for a correction that can actually be backed up with something substantial. So far it has been old, inconclusive memos .

I am not saying that it wasn't ET. Maybe it was. What I am saying is that we cannot exclude other options yet.

Cheers,
Badeskov

I'm fairly certain it's a HMMV. I can't access it either (403 error), but I found the url on another forum where they were discussing their dream cars. So it's a rather childish arguement then "A HMMV can't be misidentified as atmospheric, so therefore a ufo wouldn't not be confused for such either"

OK.



Indeed they are intruiging But as UFOs. Being ET would be even more intruiging, however, I honestly don't think we can make that conclusion just yet.



No doubt that the personnel involved were highly trained in most cases. And I am sure the radar systems were in perfect order as well. But I still disagree with that natural phenomena has been excluded.



That is positively wrong; especially as a whole host of new phenomena has been discovered since then and our knowledge has increased significantly.



No, you cannot. Here you have a known phenomena (red truck) that is mistaken for an unknown natural phenomena. If you had said that something unknown that you couldn't recognize flitted by your house, then yes.



I always think about what I say (ahem, write), but that doesn't mean that I am correct every time.

Cheers,
Badeskov

Ok, thanks Evangium. I got the 403 error as well (Firefox issue?). I was rather busy tonight so I didn't really have time to go look around for it

Cheers,
Badeskov

Indeed. That is one of those baffling contradictions that really stand out in my honest opinion



Here I would be a little more careful. I don't think we can put any psychological profile on Aliens as the are..umm..alien We simply have no idea of their behavior whatsoever. Maybe they see a craft and a few of their peers as dispensable and not anything worth the effort to recover

Cheers,
Badeskov

I'm pretty sure that if Stan was involved the the reaction would be different, 'cause as you know he is God on this subject. (apparently he was a proper scientist once.)

just throwin in here. ive heard a couple theories why they crashed.
1. the nuclear testing we were doin at the time brought other life here like bugs to a light. and this messed with some their craft, causing (At least) one to crash.
2 it was placed here on purpose for us to learn from (aliens were already old/dying/dead).
3. all gravity and atmosphere is not the same everywhere, they had a hard time w/ our gravity/physical dimension.
4.some aliens just suck at flying.
.
these are a few that ive read of, im not saying i think they are true or not, just some different theories to wrap your head around.

I'm getting the feeling that all this was cooked up by the intelligence services, especially during the 1950's and 1960's, just to add diversion to the Cold War mix.

I once looked through some old daily logs and/or reports of "unidentifieds" from one or two military bases in New Mexico, circa something like 1960. I never saw so much B.S.

They had numerous ridiculous reports of ridiculous sightings.

Probably, there were reasons for those reports- there, in the middle of uranium country, and missile test areas.

It all looks like so much "Disney Does Little Green Men". Or, some such crap.

I bet if one goes right down the line, it's BS after official BS.

All for a reason. The Cold War gone amuck...

Therefore, whatever it amounts to is zilch.

The accomplishments, and or failures that precede this current era, and which made this era what it is, are all that matter.

The rest is a sideline.

Things really changed after the Robertson Report of 1953. It suggested that any means be used to debunk UFOs.

Just wondering because you implied that pilots who'd made detailed descriptions of the flying saucers they encountered, some in broad daylight in close proximity of their aircraft, could be mistaken.

Apparently, scientific analysis were done and natural phenomena were in fact, excluded by meteorologist themselves in addition to those who were directly involved. Ever heard of Dr. James McDonald? Apparenlty, you are implying that experts in the field of meteorology and aviation don't know what they are talking about.



Once again, experts in their field have already excluded natural phenomena. Using natural phenomena is a method debunkers used but when pressed to provide details, they insist on UNKNOWN phenomena. A convenient way to dismiss documented UFO case files, which resulted in embarrassment for Phil Klass and CSICOP when they tried to dismiss well known cases as natural phenomena before scientific analysis later proved them wrong.



Actually, experts have used science to validate many UFO case files are reported. Lucky the investigations weren't handled by the scientific community since they have blotched past investigations with comical conclusions that not even the media took seriously.



General Twining describes saucer-shaped crafts in the memo, and we didn't have any flying saucers, which simply means the saucer-shaped, or disk-shaped crafts, or whatever, were not ours by that very fact.



Let's do a recap.



Obviously, General Twining is not refering to a B-29, but of flying saucers. So once again, since we didn't have flying saucers capable of such performance, they were not ours nor that of some classified project because the military doesn't like to advertise their classified assets openly.



Pilots are trained to identify little details, so when they report domed metallic saucer-shaped crafts with rotating beacon lights and portholes, that were also confirmed by radar, then obviously, the crafts they are refering to are not conventional aircraft at all.



Scientific analysis concluded that the crafts were artificial crafts and military and commcericial pilots in the same general area reported that the objects were flying saucers and when it was deternined the objects were artificial, the FAA stepped in because of the violations.

Skeptics first claimed that those objects were planets, but later, they found that the planets were in the opposite side of the sky, so they changed their claim to that of ice clouds, but meteorologist and the aircrews dismissed their debunking efforts once again. What is comical about that, the skeptics went public before they had determined they were wrong. Apparently, their rushed attempt to debunk that incident is what made them the laughing stock in the eyes of the public.



Why change what is already history? Do we change dates on historical events just because we want too? Of couse not, so why dismiss historical UFO case files that remain unexplained in terrestrial terms today?

All you have to do is to just prove that the flying saucers, which were outmaneuving high-performance Air Force jets, were ours. Otherwise, the ETH will take over.



Of couse they are!



why would you disgree since those who had dismissed natural phenomena as responsible for those UFOs, were meteorologist, the aircrew involved, and radar technicians and operators. In other words, why dismiss the conclusion of highly-trained experts in their own field of expertise?



That has no bearing on any of the UFO case files in question since they were positively identified by highly-trained pilots and aircrews as artificial machines, not clouds, and confirmed by experts in the field of meteorology and radar technology.



And, we have known artificial saucer-shaped machines that interact with aircraft and react to radar lock-ons, which in itself, dismisses natural phenomena, and rightly so.

Of course not! A point that I was trying to make where details of saucer-shaped flying machines were documented by pilots and aircrews.

Even harder to believe that the military would continue to hide the Roswell object after 60 years if it were a balloon.

Is it capable of hypersonic velocities? If not, then that is not the kind of UFO we are talking about.

Really? Well I know for a fact that the HMMV isn't capable of hypersonic velocities either, yet that was somehow relevent to the discourse.
Personally I think Sharman's balloons are a bit more relevent since they have created a few UFO flaps.
You totally missed the point.

edit: "Wilmot said that it appeared to him to be about 1,500 feet high and going fast. He estimated between 400 and 500 miles per hour." from the RDR article.

400-500 mph is hardly hypersonic

Yet, UFOs are well-known for their hypersonic and maneuvering capabilities.



Taking into consideration what badeskov has said, Sharman's balloons could be the result of some unknown natural phenomena.

And, I have identified a blimp as such when it was reported that it was a UFO, and even one of our KC-10s, but then again, I am on the record for stating the majority of UFO sightings can be explained, but it is those UFOs that involved hypersonic flights and exotic maneuvers, which were visually identified and cofirmed by radar, that I am interested in.

And, speaking of balloons.



Which confirms what I have been saying about a Project Mogul flight #4 that never was.



And, guess where that saucer was heading, and what was found the next morning.

The velocity of that UFO over Washington D.C. in 1952 was tracked at 7200 mph, and besides, the velocity of UFOs are not limited to hypersonic flight, they have also been known to hover and travel at velocites of 100 mph or less before zooming off at hypersonic speeds within seconds.

Speaking of the Wilmots.

Why say it in one post, when many can achieve the effect of bumping the thread?
Where's the link to what Wilmot saw and Bezal found?

roswell is way to suspicious.

1st if alien life exists, which probably does, why in the hell would any resemble humans!! the chances they could resemble humans are sooo remote, consider it impossible. 2nd, a circular craft is a bad design to fly a craft in space for light years. these craft are reported up to 5000 mph, but they should be going light speed, and all ufo sightings can be attributed to stealth blimps, or new spacecraft

You've definitely got that right!!



Apes resemble humans, so it is not inconceivable that alien lifeforms would have similar features as well.



I don't think so, especially since flyng saucers were reported around the world for centuries, long before stealth blimps were even drawn on the drawing boards.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZU1Kxa2ZgNQ


What is the latest on the Texas UFO Story?

2nd July
On Wednesday 2nd July at around 9:50pm, Mr. & Mrs. Dan Wilmot report seeing an oval-shaped UFO from their house at South Penn, Roswell, moving NW, towards the crash site. Dan Wilmot estimates it as being at around 1500 feet and 15 to 20 feet in diameter (Roswell UFO).
Mac Brazel and others hear a loud explosion.

3/4th July
Mac Brazel, accompanied by 7-year-old neighbour Dee Proctor, discovers a large amount of lightweight, metallic debris (the crashed Roswell flying saucer) on a remote pasture (the debris field). Brazel was foreman of the Foster Ranch. The pieces were spread out over a large area. When Brazel and Dee drove back home, he showed a piece of the wreckage to Dee's parents, Floyd and Loretta Proctor.

It was agreed the debris was unlike anything seen before. Brazel removes a large, circular piece of debris from the debris field and stores it in a shed.

http://www.abcfield.force9.co.uk/Roswell_Timeline.htm

http://ufologie.net/rw/p/sacramentobee8jul1947.htm

http://ufologie.net/rw/p/roswelldailyrecord9jul1947.htm

http://ufologie.net/rw/p/laurore9jul1947.htm

http://ufologie.net/rw/p/parisienlibere9jul1947.htm

http://www.marceljr.com/timeline.htm

So in other words, there is no link between the two events. No-one actually witnessed the crash itself (or if they claim to their testimony is false).
Also, I think the RDR's retelling of Wilmot's size estimation might be a little off.
A man sized target (5-6') when viewed through a 1.5x sight at 600 metres looks like its about 1" tall. So something that looks 5' at 1500' (about 500-600m) with the naked eye is much bigger than 15-20'. Either that or it was flying very low.



edit:changed incorrect imperial symbol

There are no witnesses to many aircraft accidents either.

On July 2, 1947, a flying saucer was witnessed heading into the direction of the crash site, and afterwards, an explosion was heard by Brazel and others. The next day, wreckage was discovered on the Foster ranch by Brazel.

Eventually, the military sent a group of military personnel to clean up the area, and as of January 2008, the Air Force still refuses to reveal the object it recovered in July 1947.

I am interested in disclosure, but for different reasons then most.

http://openmindsforum.com/index.php?option...53&Itemid=2



I don't think you are going to have to wait much longer for disclosure to take place...but what are you going to do with that info when you have it?

There are those within government, and former government workers who were directly involved in UFO encounters and other matters, who are tired with all of the secrecy surrounding UFOs, and they want disclosure now.

My prediction is that disclosure will be made as more and more countries reveal their own UFO files, and Roswell is going be amongst the first incidents to be revealed as an extraterrestrial event.

Perhaps then, it will be clearer to skeptics as to why the Air Force reported the capture of a flying saucer in 1947.

Did you know that almost exactly 9 months after the Roswell Incident occured, Al Gore was born? hmmmm?

Hmmm! You might have somthing there!

Al Gore: Earth is in 'Full-Scale Planetary Emergency'

http://www.space.com/news/061026_gore_space.html

Spot On M8. Nailed it in one

Just go here and you can confirm it all

Funny how Wikipedia lists all of Friedmans works, yet does not offer a link to download the actul AF, or GAO reports.
Neither does any pro-roswell alien site. Funny that huh.

Here is a link where you can download one of the 2 official reports you will see barstadised heavily in here, of feel free to email me, I have the original versions of the '94, '97 and GAO reports in .pdf if you would like a copy to read for yourself. Keep in mind the 94 report is 86 meg, the '97 12 meg and the GAO a mere 320kb. Make sure your mailbox can handle it, or get Gmail.

Is there a location here at UM where I can put them for everybody to access?

Check it out for yourself Amazing how such a misunderstanding can not only occur, but remain active for so long, and continue to grow.

I stumbled on this free e book online. Sounds like an interesting read.

I want to address the: "giggle factor" that has been applied to anyone reporting/researching UFOs...the label, that is applied to the vast majority of those who report seeing something they don't understand...The ridicule and scoffing and shaming for reporting/researching such things. Through your constant badgering and debunking efforts you have become a participant, wittingly or unwittingly, in a deliberately designed program of censorship, ridicule, denial, and intimidation that has been implemented over the past six decades to manage information.

You see, the giggle factor is sanctioned by the U.S. government and is applied to many areas:

http://www.stormingmedia.us/59/5990/A599034.html
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchro...cc/france2.html



The following is Borrowed from (I want to use this to make a point) : http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/viewth...e=10#pid3992120


Concerning cover-up

...I do know for a fact that the US Military Intelligence services have, in the past, specified what the local military is allowed to divulge to the press and the public. We have FOIA documents that make this very clear. Considering the Air Force announced, with great publicity and fan fare, back in 1969 that they were washing their hands of the UFO Phenomena this doesn't add up does it?

Additionally, I have observed for more than 20 years the cultural manipulation of the entire "UFO Phenomena" by the Military/Industrial Complex here in the US.

What I mean by cultural manipulation is the instant "woo woo" or "nutjob" label applied to the vast majority of those who report seeing something they don't understand. It is definitely a cultural enigma within the aviation profession and Dr. Richard Haines of NARCAP, www.narcap.org , has done wonderful work proving this in several of his studies including his anonymous pilot survey.

What I find intriguing is the fact that 50 or 60 years ago when someone reported seeing a UFO they were met with sober and genuine inquiry by the authorities and the public at large. Today people are met with what can only be described as ridicule.

There are several schools of thought about this, my favorite is, groups within the intelligence services (whether officially sanctioned or not is a mystery) have created a complex web of hoaxes in order to guarantee the ridicule is justified when the truth comes out. By doing this they have assured the public and the media will scoff and giggle first and hopefully drop it all together shortly after most reports are made.

There is lots of evidence of this behavior and several instances wherein the "dis info agent(s)" have actually confessed. Isn't that odd?

The cover has usually been that these hoaxes were perpetrated to protect classified military assets from discovery. I buy that, it makes sense even though it is an amazingly stupid thing to do for obvious reasons.

My problem is, that this story doesn't "cover" all the instances, nor does it explain the reason for the dichotomy of wanting to perpetuate the UFO Phenom to use it as a cover for the Secret Military Craft while at the same time creating a cultural intolerance for those who believe what they saw was otherworldly.

I can't reconcile those two issues.

When it comes to stories like Mr. Sorrell's, there is further muddying of the waters with the fact so many people claim to have seen these things, there is video and still imagery of very strange things in the sky, and the kicker... The Air Force WRT this case, is full of it IMHO.

Let's look at the Air Force's responses to this so far:

"We had nothing in the sky that night" was the first response.

Then the images and lots of witness testimony comes forward and all of a sudden the Air Force claims they had TEN F-16s IN THE AIR that night on a TRAINING MISSION. They can't produce any pilots naturally and the fact that would be one heck of a BIZARRE training mission doesn't lend much credibility to that statement either. BUT this statement lends lots of credibility to the eye witnesses who claim they saw F-16s chasing the "lights". Training or scrambling?

The next issue I have is if Mr. Sorrells wasn't really threatened or at least thought he was and, as some have postulated here, he is in this for fame and or fortune why would he have passed up the golden opportunity to bring himself into the national spotlight on "Larry King Live" and get lots of that fame instantly and for free?

Yes there is an argument that can be made that he elevated his story's "play" by calling out the threat card as it were, but to what end?

Why would someone looking for fame take the risk of being blown off as a nutter over the guarantee of a national television spotlight?

And finally, I know a little about the "business end" of Ufology and it is NOT a good way to get rich. Most of these people, even the "big names" struggle to make to ends meet in between books and lectures. I know a few of the "big names" personally and these people, excluding those who inherited or otherwise earned their fortunes, are NOT rich or even financially independent.

So after all of this, I have to think that there is much more to this story than the simple explanation of a massive hoax can define. There are way too many people involved who have nothing to gain and much to lose (ala Mrs. Joiner), a very shady (I am being kind) set of stories from the Air Force, video and still imagery of BIZARRE things in the sky and no decent explanation as to what's really happening.



Now how does this apply to the Roswell Incident?...

simple...

Why is what happened at Roswell STILL CLASSIFIED some 60 odd years latter, and ridicule, or the giggle factor is applied to those who research it or ask questions even on an official level?

...coverup?

...is it posible?

Nah, ...now why would the government do that?

Haven't been badgering or debunking this stuff for ages M8, where ya been? I been hanging with the crypto mob, It's why I came here to begin with. Badgering requires quite some active participation doesn't it? I do not think censorship is the issue, rather the opposite. One would tinnk in 6 decades someone would uncover something, but all the heroes involved with uncovering aliens are dismal failures it seems.

It is not still classified. Follow the links provided. Only the imagined bits between the lines that don't actually exist other than in conspiracy theories are apprently classified. The Congressman Schiff thing you appear to be reffering to is a crock. The GAO reports tells there was nothing to find and a read of ther emails he sent shows he got frustraed at his own red tape.

I think believing a suacer crashed, and aliens are amongst us requires quite a substantial giggle factor.

Just to let you know, some of the skeptics have now found that there were no Project Mogul balloon flight #4. But then again, how long have I made that fact known?

Answer: Long before other UFOlogist had determined that there were no such thing as Project Mogul balloon flight #4.

_________________________________

A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE
Sunday, August 26, 2007

There Was No Flight No. 4

K. Randle
_________________________________

And,



So you see, there were never such a flight as Project Mogul balloon flight #4.

The Mogul balloon records clearly indicated that the flight was cancelled and never flown. To further add, it was CONFIRMED just the other day on TV, that there were no such flight.

The Air Force made of the story of Project Mogul balloon involvement.

In addition, a Mogul balloon test conducted last summer, also confirmed that it was impossible for a Mogul balloon train to have been responisible for the Roswell incident, and some of the Mogul balloon supporters were there. Now, there are FORMER Mogul balloon supporters.

Besides, this eyewitness to the Roswell debris says the Airforce is lying about it.


July 7, 1947

Marcel and Cavitt collected wreckage from the crash site. After filling Cavitt's vehicle with wreckage, Marcel told Cavitt to go on ahead and he would collect more wreckage, and they would meet later back at Roswell AAF. Marcel filled his vehicle with wreckage. On the way back to the airfield, Marcel stopped off at home at around 1-2 AM to show his wife and son the strange material he had found. Both his wife Viaud and son Jesse Jr. examine the debris Jesse Sr. had brought home. Jesse Jr. remembers there were pink/purple/lavender symbols along the centre sections of some of the small metallic "I" beams in amongst the debris.



http://www.marceljr.com/bio.htm

http://www.marceljr.com/timeline.htm

Read the reports again. Not only was Congressman Schiff's Roswell investigation impeded by the Air Force, other Roswell researchers were complaining as well. It had nothing to do with "red tape" because the Air Force was deliberately sending him to areas it knew were false avenues.




Actually, of all of the Air Force's stories on the Roswell incident, only the original press release that it captured a flying saucer remains unrefuted.

In addition, it has been proven from other sources that the Air Force is lying, and doing so blatantly.




Mac Brazel recovered weather balloons before and he said that what he found that time, was not a weather balloon. And, he didn't discover a Project Mogul balloon either.

I think the mogul explanation is bunk; for 3 reasons:

1. I would never think that Jesse Marcel, an intelligence officer, would be so stupid to mistake radar reflector scraps for saucer debris.

2. Their was a lot of debris scattered over miles. Even a large mogul radar reflector(s) would not have a 10th of this amount.

3. My father had a Top Secret Clearance in the Army CID from the 1960's to 2000. Dad worked at several military bases that have been mentioned in Roswell investigations on TV for years. I asked him, point blank, one time when we were drinking together about Roswell....all I ever got out of him was this irritated statement: "Where the %$#@!! do you think our stelth tech came from?!" He'd never say anything more about it...I think he was afraid of losing his Army retirement. Now that he's passed on, I don't think it matters now to mention that.

Just something to chew on!

For the record; Project Mogul balloon trains were not classified.

In fact, any civilian was invited to add their input on attached questionnaires, which were written in english and in spanish, which in itself, is further proof that Project Mogul balloons were not classified.

The Air Force made up that story about involvement of a Project Mogul balloon flight #4 that never was. That is why no one can find any records pertaining to a Project Mogul balloon flight #4, including skeptics, and why some of them are now dumping the Project Mogul balloon theory of the Air Force.

You are correct that the Mogul balloon explanation is "bunk." Now, there are even skeptics who are finally coming around to that reality.