i just watched the national geographic program on roswell, and saw shermer demolish all the witnesses and evidence. the mogul project must be responsible, not an alien ship.

what u guys think?

Not another Roswell thread..... and I'm sure Shermer is well happy in his total and utter ignorance...

all the evidence for roswell was shot down in 1 hour. talk about fast-debunking!!!

shermer set the believers pretty straight and they just went "ugghh

Shermer has a magazine to sell, funnily enough, on some subjects i agree with him. But his Roswell critique ignores the actualite and relys on debunked lies from the Air Force...

Actually I am amazed no-one seems to have ever mentioned the following. According to that guy who hacked the computers looking for UFO data, it is the Navy that has all the good stuff. It was the Air Force retrieved whatever crashed at Roswell. They release a press communique completely unaware that the Navy already has the last word on these sort of *ops*... The Navy call and say.... "Sorry, dudes, but you need to retract and obfurscate that's our call, if you don't believe us here's our authorisation"...

Ever wonder why Frank Black wears a Naval Uniform in that Sci Fi series?

Try reading "Witness to Roswell" and "Top Secret/Majic". The investigational and testimonial evidence they present blows the debunkers garbage out of the water and into deep space orbit somewhere.

The National Geographic has clearly shown that it didn't do its homework.

There are no flight records pertaining to a Project Mogul balloon flight #4 because no such flight ever took place, and National Geographic would have found that out if they had done their homework.

Last summer, an experiment using a 1/2 scale Mogul balloon has proven once and for all, that no Mogul balloon was responsible for the Roswell incident and there were some Roswell skeptics present and they became aware of the results, so is it any wonder that there are now skeptics who are no longer supporting a Project Mogul balloon train as responsible for the Roswell incident?

Michael Shermer was blown out of the water on the "Larry King Live" program not long ago because he didn't do his homework either. I would like to ask him what is his evidence that a Project Mogul balloon train was responsible for the Roswell incident.

Oh oh. Skyeagle A.M.'s back on the air

Yes i'm sure they didn't do their fact checking. Did they do a detailed survey of the crash site? Did they rule out chimpanzees and iradiated service men either? No, but according to one of those military eyewitnesses whose questionable testimony must not be doubted said that he was informed by his CO that the site wasn't hot. Then again, since we're talking about the accuracy of t.v. programs, why is it that every show like Unsolved Mysteries, is assumed to be better researched and more factual than normal documenteries?

Yes indeed!!



Yes!



Since no one reported chipanzees running around in the field, and the area wasn't a site for nuclear explosions, it is just a matter of common sense, you understand.



Apparently, better than what National Geographic presented on Roswell.

Do you realize just how "dopey" that sounds???...you continue to amaze me...

Why should it? After all, National Geograhic came under an attack for the way it presented the Roswell incident last year.

We always do agree don't we .....

No-one reported little aliens running around either. Yet we have some who claim that little ET bodies were loaded onto a C-57 and flown to WPAFB. I'm surprised that no-one's claimed that the Tuskegee Airmen were called in to escort it. So much for CS...


And yet they still finish with the "Who Knows" disclaimer...

The military claimed that it captured a flying saucer that wasn't ours.



That was a C-54, not a C-57. Even a former commanding officer of Wright-Patterson AFB who overflew the crash area, stated that the Roswell incident involved extraterrestrial beings, but isn't that what Lt. Haut indicated in his affidavit after his death?

Even Senator Barry Goldwater wanted to take a look at Wright-Patterson AFB.

So, how's that prove there were little ET's running around at the crash site?



I don't really care what aircraft it was. So you don't rule out the possibility that the Tuskegee airmen could've been involved in a secret fighter escort?
Hmm... Haut's 2nd affidavit? The one that even the believers are having doubts about?

Knowing how the military works from experience, I am going to go simply with what the Air Force first reported.



Why would anyone have to escort C-54s heading for Wright-Patterson AFB anyway?



It was his own affidavit!

Okay Skyeagle 409 A.M., you've broadcast in the past that military lies, it covers up, etc... So why would this make that report true?



Hmm... Secret enough to require flying out of RAAF, but not so secret that it needed an escort, just in case it dropped out of the sky... Still not a convincing arguement that the Tuskegee airmen couldn't have escorted it from you is it?



Refer to first comment. Add to that "the guy who broke the news isn't considered a reliable source by both sides."

Because there were no reason for the Air Force to broadcast to the whole world that they captured a flying saucer, and secret test flights were carried out at Muroc AFB, California anyway, which incidently, reported flying saucers over their area just days after the Roswell incident.



What are they gong to shoot at? A roque Stearman pilot?



He was only following orders since he had no authority to release such information on his own.

P.S.
I hope you are not getting your information from a website that still thinks that Mogul balloons were classified, which they were not.

There was no reason for them to tell the truth or lie about anything. Your point being?


Secret flight, remember? I'm sure they'd have wanted someone to be able to give accurate locstat if the C-54 had suffered engine failure and gone down. Can't haave that wreckage out there for few more weeks


Refer again to earlier post, but this time add about 40-50 years. That guy who broke the news about the affidavit.

P.S.
You'd be suprised at how deep some of my sources are

The Air Force would not have released such a story if not true and continue to hide the object it recovered in 1947 to this very day, and expend great time and effort to keep it that way.



Well, if someone had already known the reason why they were shooting at it, then it was no secret! Just a matter of common sense, you understand! And, the military never provided armed security aircraft escorts for any of our classified aircraft during their flight test operations.

You see, when you want to debunk something, make sure that someone else doesn't know what it is, you are trying to debunk, otherwise, they may correct you when you least expect it.



If the aircraft was truly classified, the military would have been right on the case within an hour because of the classified nature of the mission, however, in the case of the Roswell incident, the military was unaware of any crash until notified by a civilian. That is one very important clue that what crashed in regards to the Roswell incident, had nothing to do with any classified project of the military, yet the military has treated the object it recovered in 1947, in ways as if the object had a classification status far higher than any stealth aircraft!

After all, stealth aircraft such as "Have Blue," F-117 and B-2 bomber and other black projects, were revealed after several years of their first flights, but the Roswell object after 60 years, is still highly classified and remains hidden away to this very day.



Lt. Haut's affidavit is no secret nor what he believed in. After all, it was in newspapers and on TV around the country. Not a great way of hiding secrets.



I have already been surprised at your sources, and for your sources at not getting their facts straight. Do I have to go back and repost some examples to make my point very clear?

so they've told the truth every other time?

Well, if someone had already known the reason why they were shooting at it, then it was no secret! Just a matter of common sense, you understand! And, the military never provided armed security aircraft escorts for any of our classified aircraft during their flight test operations.


Why was anyone shooting at it? Why would the escorts need to be armed?



So the C-54 aircraft was never was never classified? Well I'm sure everyone could have figured that out by themselves! You still have yet to prove the fighter or other escort.



So no person could possibly want to make something like that affidavit up? Because only the military lies and is decietful (and then it's only when they're telling the truth)?



Asume is to make an ass for u and me. This whole deepthroat-esque story of yours has been floating around for some time. The only thing that's different is you now go by the handle Skyeagle409 A.M. Remember the flying christmas tree?

so they've told the truth every other time?



Why was anyone shooting at it? Why would the escorts need to be armed?



So the C-54 aircraft was never was never classified? Well I'm sure everyone could have figured that out by themselves! You still have yet to prove the fighter or other escort.



So no person could possibly want to make something like that affidavit up? Because only the military lies and is decietful (and then it's only when they're telling the truth)?




Assume is to make an ass for u and me. This whole deepthroat-esque story of yours has been floating around for some time. The only thing that's different is you now go by the handle Skyeagle409 A.M. Remember the flying christmas tree?

edit:spelling

Only the initial report of a recovered flying saucer. Remember, all of the Air Force's cover stories have already been proven as false, but the initial report remains unrefuted to this very day.



Why would there be escorts in the first place if the mission was nothing more than an airlift flight and World War II had already ended? There were no armed escorts for the B-2 stealth bomber during its test flights.



Not the aircraft itself, and it was no more classified than a Piper Cub, but its cargo can be of a classified nature.



Why, if none were needed since there were no enemy aircraft in the area anyway? Remember, World War II ended 2 years earlier and Germany and Japan are a long way off from Roswell, New Mexico.



Why would he? Surely, not for money, and you know the old saying; "You can't take it with you."



In that regards, it is just a matter of having the knowledge of knowing when to hold 'em, and when to throw 'em.



I remember that quite well since it involved an KC-10 from my own Air Wing, and I made it known to all that the aircraft was misidentified as a UFO in Northern California, but then again, I have always said that most UFO sightings can be explained anyway.

In regards to your post, second time is a charm, I guess you might say!

It happens to the best and worst of us, especially on forums when you're thinking faster than you're typing. I make no apologies for correcting those little mistakes that don't change the context.


Why would someone else want to create a false affidavit and calim it was Hauts?


What about the Southern Star in '75? do you remember that?

Why would they? What has Lt. Haut been saying on video so there were no question as to what he was saying?



In regards to what?

November 12

I have gone through a lot of November 12 over the years.

But only one in '75. Page 7 news. Though '75 was a long time ago.

Go ahead and post it.

Well that would breach some rather important policy rules and probably get me banned.

What about Cam Ranh Bay, Phan Rang or Nha Trang? Willing to veify you which one you were at in '68?

I was stationed with the 35th Tactical Fighter Wing at Phan Rang Air Base, Vietnam in 1968, which is where my sighting took place, and I have been to Pleiku Air Base as well, where I missed another opportunity to see another UFO by just months in 1969.

I have passed through Cam Ranh Bay and also mentioned how their F-4 Phantoms had shown off for us. You forgot to mention Hill AFB, UT, that investigated the Minuteman missile shutdowns, which involved UFOs since Hill AFB has a certain responsibility toward Minuteman missiles in the field.

Now how hard was that? Why all the years of cloak'n'dagger posts, lt.?

Wasn't difficult at all!

In regards to "cloak 'n' dagger" I have given a number of simple clues that required nothing more than common sense to figure out.

Wouldn't it have just been easier to come out and state what your military background was (eg. I served here, where I held this rank. I saw the UFO at around this time and date)?

Surely that couldn't have any repercussions for you?

I have on other occasions, and even mentioned my own participation in a military cover-up, but it didn't involve a UFO. I also mentioned that I have designed a number of things for the U.S. Air Force, including flapper valves used on the Air Force's C-5 fleet, and I am a pilot as well.

Yes, but mostly in the form of a vague comment, even to people who are genuinely interested in proving the UFO phenomena has more to it than the skeptics say. Unfortunately most seasoned researchers (believers and skeptics) have come across so many others who have falsely made vague and unverifiable references to their backgrounds; so I can understand why they might mistakenly put you into that pile as well.

IMO, you'd be beter off being totally up front about who you were and where you've been (you don't have to mention your name, address or phone number to do this ). Yes some skeptics will offer up their opinions about what they think you saw, but that's no different to what you've already experienced.

I don't just take UFO reports unless they have been examined in detail, and once again, I am on the record for stating the the majority of UFO reports can be explained, but the UFOs that I am interested in are radar/visual pilot reports.

There have been certain times where I have even disagreed with UFOlogist on certain issues.

You're deflecting my earlier post somewhat.
Even the skeptics agree that Haut and Marcel served their nation honourably and the more respectable skeptics have never even tried to cast any doubtful shadow over that part of their lives.
I'll admit, that I don't know what the age for retirement is in the States, but if it's 65 you must be getting very close, maybe you're even starting to think about it. So why not start revealing more about yourself?

One of the things that has been told, was not to reveal everything on the internet, but I can say that I am retired from the Air Force and worked for a major defense contractor on an Air Force contract.

And, I can safely say that the Air Force knew that some UFOs were not ours, meaning they are those of ET.

You keep saying "things" you have no evidence for. You can "safely" say anything you want as the air force (and the government) doesn't really care what "weird things" people choose to believe.

Research on the Aztec, NM UFO sighting, kinda similar to Roswell

And Corona, NM

That reality was one of the things the Major was disclosing on "Live" TV back in 1958 before the censors at CBS pulled the audio plug--in one CBS official's words: "It was done in the interest of national security."

Major Dewey Fournet, USAF, has already confirmed the documents, including the 1952 Air Force intelligence report on flying saucer maneuvers, which he wrote.

Many of the reports of the so-called, "weird things" in the sky were made by highly experienced pilots and radar experts from around the globe who were directly involved, so just call upon the National Archives under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) and examine the declassified government files on UFOs. It was through the FOIA that the U.S. Army confirmed the existence of its Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit (IPU) whose mission was the recovery of downed spacecrafts and "interplanetary" sums in up, especially since the unit was activated years before the Soviets launched mankind's first satellite.

So here is where you dismissed things as fantasy that are already well-known and documented by the U. S. Government.

The Major was mistaken...as you are...

Sky, he does not care! No matter what you say to him. Someone could turn around and say that a disc hovered above theie house for 5 mins, before shooting of into space, and if a de-bunker said it was a pink elaphant, then he would believe that. He cant make his own mind up, and his beliefs and thoughts are not his, but other peoples. There is so much evidence that the militery know more about ufo's than they are letting on. You can see this in documents, testinonies, and data evidence. But to de-bunkers, these people did not see what they said, and i find this very ignorant and arragont!

The Major had the official documents in his hands on "Live" TV and look what you posted for all to see! And, there were other Air Force officers present as well.

Guess you weren't being truthful when you said that you didn't think that UFO's were alien.

I wish I could say I was surprised...

Where in that post did i say Aliens. I have already stated that i believe some ufo's are unexplained, and because i said the militery knows more about it than they are letting on, how does that mean ET?

I agree, but I was amazed that he was unaware of basic UFO case files that other skeptics were already aware of!

That reminded me of the guy who was playing in left field at Denial Stadium. Apparently, he was unaware that the game was rained-out an hour earlier and that should have been a clue because there were no one else on the field but him.

*sigh*

Nevermind.