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tahari01
Ok all..before I paste the story I found on Yahoo News today, let me start by telling you all I'm a firm believer in the paranormal (spirits to be exact). I come from a loving family who does things together and by all means, I'm NOT LONELY! That being said, this article is from LiveScience.com's website. They did an article in which Yahoo posted on their site. Supposedly, LiveScience did a story in which they say lonely people are the ones who tend to believe in the paranormal. As outlandish and stupid and full of hooey I felt this was, I still thought I'd post it here. That being "said", this is a little long, but worth reading. I want everyone's input on this to let me know if they agree or disagree with LiveScience.com's story.

Love to you all!

Here's the article:

People who feel lonely are more likely to believe in the supernatural, whether that is God, angels or miracles, a new study finds.


Humans have evolved as social creatures, so loneliness cuts to the quick. Living in groups was critical to the survival and safety of our ancient ancestors, and "complete isolation or ostracism has been tantamount to a death sentence," said University of Chicago researcher Nicholas Epley, who led the study.


While group living isn't critical to survival in the modern world, feeling socially connected is. Feeling isolated and lonely is a very painful emotional state for people, Epley said, and can lead to ill health, both physically and mentally.


"Being socially isolated is just not good for you," he said.


When people feel lonely, they may try to rekindle old friendships, seek out new ones or, as Epley's study suggests, they may create social connections by anthropomorphizing nearby gadgets, such as computers or cars, pets, or by believing in supernatural events or religious figures.


Pets and religion


In their study, detailed in the February issue of the journal Psychological Science, Epley's team tried to induce feelings of loneliness in people to see how it affected how they thought of pets and their belief in religious figures.


In one experiment, college undergraduates were shown movie clips and told to try and empathize with the protagonist as best they could, in order to set them in one of three emotional states.


One group was shown a clip from "Cast Away," the movie in which the main character played by Tom Hanks is deserted on a remote island, in order to induce a feeling of isolation. The second group was shown a clip from the crime thriller "The Silence of the Lambs" to promote a sense of fear. A third, control group was shown a clip from the sports comedy feature film "Major League."


All three groups were then asked to describe a pet they owned or knew well and pick three traits from a list that best described them. The list included anthropomorphic traits that related to social connections (thoughtful, sympathetic) and simple behavioral descriptions (aggressive, energetic, fearful).


Participants from the loneliness group were more likely to describe the pet using the anthropomorphic descriptions than those in the fear or control groups.


All three groups were also asked to rate their belief in ghosts, angels, the devil, miracles, curses, and God, and again, those in the loneliness group reported stronger belief in these supernatural agents.


Future predictions


In another part of their study, Epley and his colleagues asked participants from the University of Chicago to fill out a personality questionnaire and were then told that the answers would be fed to a computer which would generate a future-life prediction for them. Half of the participants were read statements implying they would be lonely later in life, while the other half were told they would be socially connected for the rest of their lives.


"We tried to manipulate their loneliness, to make them feel lonely," Epley said.


The participants were then asked to rate their belief in the same supernatural agents in the other study, and those in the "lonely group" reported stronger belief than those in the "connected group." The results were also compared to ratings the participants gave before they got their life predictions, and those who reported a belief in God before and were made to feel lonely reported a stronger belief after the experiment.


"We found that inducing people to feel lonely made them more religious essentially," Epley told LiveScience, though he notes it won't cause any sudden conversions.


Health benefits

Owning pets and religious beliefs and practices are both known to increase a person's sense of well-being, but why exactly that is isn’t well known, Epley said.

Epley and his colleagues plan to probe the issue further to see if anthropomorphizing pets or believing in anthropomorphized supernatural agents is what is responsible for alleviating feelings of loneliness. If it is, it could provide alternate means for people to feel socially connected when connecting to humans isn't an option.

"There are health benefits that come from being connected to other people, and those same benefits seem to come from connection with pets and with religious agents, too," Epley said
JustNormal
Hi Tahara, All I have to say about that article is its a bunch of BS LOL..Im not lonely, and actually just the opposite and have human spirits here and been thru a haunting, so those good old scientists dont know JACK..Its known that many of the hauntings include and entire family, so is the entire family lonely? LOL..Obviously, anyone who lives alone, and is lonely can have any kind of emotional feelings of sadness, depression and the longer it goes on, the more isolated they become. But to attribute that to the paranormal is ludicrous...JN yes.gif
The Skeptic Eric Raven
Good article. clap.gif
Good to hear for a skeptic's heart.
JustNormal
QUOTE (Eric Raven The Skeptic @ Jan 25 2008, 11:17 PM) *
Good article. clap.gif
Good to hear for a skeptic's heart.



LMAO I cant wait for you documentary and what happens when you see something that causes you to scream like a little girl LOL..BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.. yes.gif
The Skeptic Eric Raven
QUOTE (JustNormal @ Jan 25 2008, 05:51 PM) *
LMAO I cant wait for you documentary and what happens when you see something that causes you to scream like a little girl LOL..BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.. yes.gif

Can't you say BOooo Yaaaa instead?Hmm.


Whether or not I see something during filiming I can bet you I will scream at one point or another. OR perhaps I will have my 15 year old be on point. LMAO.
w00t.gif
tahari01
Well, this article is for both believers and skeptics alike. It's easy to be a skeptic, but unless you actually have a paranormal experience with a spirit or spirits...it's obvious you'll be a skeptic! Anyway...that being said..I side w/JN on this one!
AngelXVI
I'm not lonely either, and I believe and experience the paranormal... I guess they need to do a little more research!!!
Lady_Anvilabeel
Sorry, but I only had to read the first paragraph and I was thinking what a load of... happy.gif
Atheist God
Seeing 'spirits' and ghosts etc has been for the most part explained via EM waves pulsed directly into the brain can induce paranoia, panic, visuals such as apparitions etc and even alien abduction.

This to me points to an obvious link with 'paranormal' activity, especially since ghost hunters always say where there is activity there is usually strong EM waves.

No matter which study comes out the believers will straight up deny, deny, deny every time because it doesn't fit their excepted view of things.
JustNormal
QUOTE (Eric Raven The Skeptic @ Jan 25 2008, 11:57 PM) *
Can't you say BOooo Yaaaa instead?Hmm.


Whether or not I see something during filiming I can bet you I will scream at one point or another. OR perhaps I will have my 15 year old be on point. LMAO.
w00t.gif



LOL Sure put it all on the kid...tsk tsk thumbdown.gif
JustNormal
QUOTE (tahari01 @ Jan 26 2008, 12:56 AM) *
Well, this article is for both believers and skeptics alike. It's easy to be a skeptic, but unless you actually have a paranormal experience with a spirit or spirits...it's obvious you'll be a skeptic! Anyway...that being said..I side w/JN on this one!


Thanks, and I believe skeptics are those who have never had a paranormal experience and once they do, THEN they write books. LOL I think the Scientists are the lonely ones..JN
JustNormal
QUOTE (AtheistGod @ Jan 26 2008, 01:40 AM) *
Seeing 'spirits' and ghosts etc has been for the most part explained via EM waves pulsed directly into the brain can induce paranoia, panic, visuals such as apparitions etc and even alien abduction.

This to me points to an obvious link with 'paranormal' activity, especially since ghost hunters always say where there is activity there is usually strong EM waves.

No matter which study comes out the believers will straight up deny, deny, deny every time because it doesn't fit their excepted view of things.


The same can be said for skeptics. There are millions of people that have experienced paranormal activity, and it sure has nothing to do with being alone, or EM waves, paranoia or panic. You cant change our minds anymore than we can change yours. Your screen name tells it all. All in due time my friend..JN
AngelXVI
QUOTE (JustNormal @ Jan 25 2008, 09:18 PM) *
The same can be said for skeptics. There are millions of people that have experienced paranormal activity, and it sure has nothing to do with being alone, or EM waves, paranoia or panic. You cant change our minds anymore than we can change yours. You screan name tells it all. All in due time my friend..JN


I invested in a EMF reader I get nothing in our house, but yet have plenty of activity. So that theory sucks!!!
JustNormal
QUOTE (AngelXVI @ Jan 26 2008, 02:27 AM) *
I invested in a EMF reader I get nothing in our house, but yet have plenty of activity. So that theory sucks!!!



I know the PI team used EMF detectors and so did the Demonologists team. They only place they found readings was in the front yard, but that was due to underground cable and by the back stairs that go to my bedroom, which could mean anything. It was too difficult due to Cable, DSL Router etc in every room. I agree, it sucks and means nothing..JN
perryswife
i am not lonely i have 2 16 year old boys I WISH I WAS LONELY crying.gif maybe there lonely and have no friends so they have to write stories about other people. lets all pray for them innocent.gif
Lady_Anvilabeel
QUOTE (AtheistGod @ Jan 26 2008, 01:40 AM) *
Seeing 'spirits' and ghosts etc has been for the most part explained via EM waves pulsed directly into the brain can induce paranoia, panic, visuals such as apparitions etc and even alien abduction.

This to me points to an obvious link with 'paranormal' activity, especially since ghost hunters always say where there is activity there is usually strong EM waves.

No matter which study comes out the believers will straight up deny, deny, deny every time because it doesn't fit their excepted view of things.



With this theory, How do you explain the difference between same and different sightings over a period of time or with groups of people with different backgrounds/ beliefs experiencing and seeing the exact same physical manifestation? You have experience to say other wise?
JackalnChainz
Loneliness and Isolation...

linked-image

I see alot of disagreement with this article. yet I find it quite valid, and very sensical in nature. God is an omnipotent being, with us at all times. The mere fact that one becomes isolated effects emotional levels where human interaction is concerned, but never takes away from his constant companionship with his Maker. It simply removes other stimuli, leaving more time to commune with God. So I do not see anything astounding about this research. It is said, there are no atheists in a fox hole. That is because when there is despair, hopelessness and isolation, God is still there for us, if we call on Him. As for the anthropomorphization of pets, we all do that, in any case. But it is only natural, that in isolation and removed from human interaction (once again) we will resort to communication and personification of even inanimate objects, much like Hanks did with his soccer ball, Wilson. And, once again, I see nothing surprizing about this at all. Lonely people are closer to God, because they lack human contact. They are more perceptive of paranormal anomalies exactly for this reason as well. As I have said, in the light of day (or the throng of humanity) the paranormal seems distant and unlikely. But in the still of the night (and the absence of our fellow man) it becomes clear that there are more things that exist, than meet the eye. I agree with this study completely. I don't, however, see any reason for jubilation from the skeptics in this forum, as the study only proves what I have elaborated on above, and does not insinuate mental difficiency or imaginative halucinations. That is a shallow and dispicable interpretation, and viewpoint, and shows a real desperation for some form of victory. LOL. The study only reverberates, that people need contact. People need people. And that is all. original.gif ~Jackal

Great thread Tahari!
Lolipopkid
I liked the article. I can see why you notice more around you and with in you when alone. I need time alone, it give me time to sort things out. There may indeed be a tie to the paranormal while you are alone, because you have more time to notice, less people to blame for noise.
JackalnChainz
QUOTE (Lolipopkid @ Jan 26 2008, 12:16 AM) *
I liked the article. I can see why you notice more around you and with in you when alone. I need time alone, it give me time to sort things out. There may indeed be a tie to the paranormal while you are alone, because you have more time to notice, less people to blame for noise.


Exactly. It is easier to perceive the imperceptable, when you are alone and without the normal chaos of life interfering.

Asphodel
I think the theory is fairly logical, but it's absolute BS to apply it to everyone. I am not lonely at all, and I believe in some "odd" things, or at least acknowledge the possibility of such things.
JackalnChainz
QUOTE (Asphodel @ Jan 26 2008, 02:21 AM) *
I think the theory is fairly logical, but it's absolute BS to apply it to everyone. I am not lonely at all, and I believe in some "odd" things, or at least acknowledge the possibility of such things.


Ok, then consider this...

If you were suddenly hurled into a situation of isolation and loneliness, wouldn't you concur that your recognition of these odd things would increase? Your own isolation from other people would make your awareness of these things even greater.
Asphodel
QUOTE (JackalnChainz @ Jan 26 2008, 02:34 AM) *
Ok, then consider this...

If you were suddenly hurled into a situation of isolation and loneliness, wouldn't you concur that your recognition of these odd things would increase? Your own isolation from other people would make your awareness of these things even greater.


I think my mind would just seek the existence of something else as a means of preservation. I'd definitely have more time and less distraction, leading me to over think everything I see and hear around me. I think my perceptions would be mentally exaggerated rather than enhanced by my isolation.
JackalnChainz
QUOTE (Asphodel @ Jan 26 2008, 02:53 AM) *
I think my mind would just seek the existence of something else as a means of preservation. I'd definitely have more time and less distraction, leading me to over think everything I see and hear around me. I think my perceptions would be mentally exaggerated rather than enhanced by my isolation.

There is a fine line between enhanced and exaggerated as it is defined in such instances, my friend. A line very open to interpretation. I see your point however. But I think you are already rationalizing the affects. I see you as one to really keep their cool, even to the point of denial. Well, very close to it. I do think you would succumb to the perverbial second blow of the hammer. Good points! original.gif Interesting! ~Jackal
Odd Christian
It doesn't say if they tested them before, so claiming that there was an increase of belief in one group without testing before the experiment makes the findings unreliable. it is possible that more had a deeper conection to their pets, or were more spiritual than those of the other groups. I know alot of people that have pets, are not lonly, but talk to and about their pets as if they were people. I also know alot of people who are not lonely that are very spiritual people. I also know people who feel lonely alot, are atheist, and hate animals.

so I have to say this was a biased experiment, and is meaningless.
Asphodel
QUOTE (JackalnChainz @ Jan 26 2008, 03:13 AM) *
There is a fine line between enhanced and exaggerated as it is defined in such instances, my friend. A line very open to interpretation. I see your point however. But I think you are already rationalizing the affects. I see you as one to really keep their cool, even to the point of denial. Well, very close to it. I do think you would succumb to the perverbial second blow of the hammer. Good points! original.gif Interesting! ~Jackal


I think I could have phrased my last sentence better. hehe
Enhanced to better perceive the paranormal would have read best. Something like that, anyway. In other words, I personally think I'd just go a little "crazy" in a case of extreme isolation. blink.gif
Asphodel
QUOTE (Odd Christian @ Jan 26 2008, 03:20 AM) *
It doesn't say if they tested them before, so claiming that there was an increase of belief in one group without testing before the experiment makes the findings unreliable. it is possible that more had a deeper conection to their pets, or were more spiritual than those of the other groups. I know alot of people that have pets, are not lonly, but talk to and about their pets as if they were people. I also know alot of people who are not lonely that are very spiritual people. I also know people who feel lonely alot, are atheist, and hate animals.

so I have to say this was a biased experiment, and is meaningless.


I agree. yes.gif
RX-7
QUOTE (JackalnChainz @ Jan 26 2008, 08:34 AM) *
Ok, then consider this...

If you were suddenly hurled into a situation of isolation and loneliness, wouldn't you concur that your recognition of these odd things would increase? Your own isolation from other people would make your awareness of these things even greater.



Nope, it would only make it worse actually. I would even be more skeptical as to whether it is my imagination being the culprit of my fears. It is when others with whom I'm close to share the exact same experiences that I begin to question and believe.


JackalnChainz
QUOTE (RX-7 @ Jan 26 2008, 03:26 AM) *
Nope, it would only make it worse actually. I would even be more skeptical as to whether it is my imagination being the culprit of my fears. It is when others with whom I'm close to share the exact same experiences that I begin to question and believe.


YUP, but we aren't talking belief here. We are talking about perception. If you are lonely, and isolated, with fewer external stimulants than the outside world, you will be more apt to perceive the paranormal. Whether you believe your own eyes is a matter between you and yourself. lol.
JackalnChainz
QUOTE (Odd Christian @ Jan 26 2008, 03:20 AM) *
It doesn't say if they tested them before, so claiming that there was an increase of belief in one group without testing before the experiment makes the findings unreliable. it is possible that more had a deeper conection to their pets, or were more spiritual than those of the other groups. I know alot of people that have pets, are not lonly, but talk to and about their pets as if they were people. I also know alot of people who are not lonely that are very spiritual people. I also know people who feel lonely alot, are atheist, and hate animals.

so I have to say this was a biased experiment, and is meaningless.


I find your response "odd" from a Christian standpoint. Absolutely there are exceptions to any rule. But for the most part, single, isolated, individuals are more likely to be more intune with God and the spiritual plain, than those that are lost in the hustle and bustle of the concrete world. Take prisoners, for example. Why do so many of them find God in lock up. Because they are facing a dire and bleek situation, essentially alone. All they have in prison is themselves....and God. If you depend on anyone else in there, you are likely to become a statistic. Some of you will say they are just posing for preferential treatment, or special recognition and early parole. I am sure this is the case with some of them. But the vast majority are genuinely falling back on what they are familiar with, in order to maintain their own sanity. And they know if you know God, you are never truly alone. I think the soccer ball portrayal in Castaway was a brilliant illustration that the mind simply will not tolerate being alone, for long.
RX-7
QUOTE (JackalnChainz @ Jan 26 2008, 09:34 AM) *
YUP, but we aren't talking belief here. We are talking about perception. If you are lonely, and isolated, with fewer external stimulants than the outside world, you will be more apt to perceive the paranormal. Whether you believe your own eyes is a matter between you and yourself. lol.


Well, from what I can gather, this study is about people who tend to believe in the supernatural. In saying that, perception really has nothing to do with it if your belief system won’t accept it. People believe in God yet there is no credible evidence to show his existence, no perception necessary there.

Odd Christian
QUOTE (JackalnChainz @ Jan 26 2008, 05:44 AM) *
I find your response "odd" from a Christian standpoint. Absolutely there are exceptions to any rule. But for the most part, single, isolated, individuals are more likely to be more intune with God and the spiritual plain, than those that are lost in the hustle and bustle of the concrete world. Take prisoners, for example. Why do so many of them find God in lock up. Because they are facing a dire and bleek situation, essentially alone. All they have in prison is themselves....and God. If you depend on anyone else in there, you are likely to become a statistic. Some of you will say they are just posing for preferential treatment, or special recognition and early parole. I am sure this is the case with some of them. But the vast majority are genuinely falling back on what they are familiar with, in order to maintain their own sanity. And they know if you know God, you are never truly alone. I think the soccer ball portrayal in Castaway was a brilliant illustration that the mind simply will not tolerate being alone, for long.


I agree, but the findings of the study is worthless, as It does not give the subjects beliefs prior to the experiment, only after. so everything I said, concerning this study is accurate.

Solitude gives a person more time for reflection of themselves, and if a believer to become more attuned to the spiritual, but solitude and lonliness are not the same things. a person can be surrounded by people, but still be lonely, likewise, a person can be in solitude but not lonely. there are many variables to consider, besides a persons feeling of loneliness.
being alone is not the same as feeling lonely
JackalnChainz
QUOTE (RX-7 @ Jan 26 2008, 03:50 AM) *
People believe in God yet there is no credible evidence to show his existence, no perception necessary there.


This is a total matter of opinion, and many would debate it with you. It is not, however, factual. But let's dismiss the God premise for now, as you are an atheist, and I really shouldn't even be addressing this with you. Let's talk about the pets. You don't think the study was write on in regards to lonely people and the attributing of human qualities in their pets? More so, than usual. Because I personally know many examples of elderly people that will not leave the side of their pets. They take them everywhere they go. Because they are lonely without their spouses and children. Peoples pets are very important to them, especially when they are all they have.
RX-7
QUOTE (JackalnChainz @ Jan 26 2008, 10:06 AM) *
This is a total matter of opinion, and many would debate it with you. It is not, however, factual. But let's dismiss the God premise for now, as you are an atheist, and I really shouldn't even be addressing this with you. Let's talk about the pets. You don't think the study was write on in regards to lonely people and the attributing of human qualities in their pets? More so, than usual. Because I personally know many examples of elderly people that will not leave the side of their pets. They take them everywhere they go. Because they are lonely without their spouses and children. Peoples pets are very important to them, especially when they are all they have.


No not an atheist here, just open to all possibilities.
In regards to pets, it’s very natural for us to associate these feeling towards them when we are lonely. It’s a human tendency to return love to something that does the same. However, is it natural for us to associate theses feelings towards something for which there is no valid proof for, and for which there is fear from uncertainty. I’m sure this would be the last thing on lonely peoples’ mind.

Asphodel
I wonder how gender would play a role in this study, if any. I wonder which gender is especially prone to having extreme religious and paranormal beliefs in isolated situations. I suspect it would all depend on the way the individuals brain is "wired". Some people do well without others, and some people just cannot believe in a higher power. The study needs to be revised with many aspects of the human body and psyche taken into consideration, rather than assuming each subject is the same.
JackalnChainz
QUOTE (RX-7 @ Jan 26 2008, 04:36 AM) *
No not an atheist here, just open to all possibilities.
In regards to pets, it’s very natural for us to associate these feeling towards them when we are lonely. It’s a human tendency to return love to something that does the same. However, is it natural for us to associate theses feelings towards something for which there is no valid proof for, and for which there is fear from uncertainty. I’m sure this would be the last thing on lonely peoples’ mind.


I stand corrected. I see we are in agreement regarding the pets. As for paranormal phenomena, I can tell you I live alone, secluded in the mountains, in a cabin, and I give a great deal of thought to otherworldly visitations. But this may simply be, because I have experienced this. So in my own mind, I can not deny what I have perceived to be real. I have no reason to, with a lack of rational explanations for the things I've witnessed. And I refuse to invent them to rationalize that which I know in my heart is true. So, maybe I can not speak for all isolated people, but I know from my own viewpoint, that the quieter it is, the more I hear! lol.

Incidently, on the advise of friends and loved ones, I am moving into a city nearby, just for those health reasons addressed in the study. It simply is not good for people to live isolated from eachother, if there exists no reason to do so. I am searching for a suitable residence this weekend, as a matter of fact.
JackalnChainz
QUOTE (Asphodel @ Jan 26 2008, 04:45 AM) *
I wonder how gender would play a role in this study, if any. I wonder which gender is especially prone to having extreme religious and paranormal beliefs in isolated situations. I suspect it would all depend on the way the individuals brain is "wired". Some people do well without others, and some people just cannot believe in a higher power. The study needs to be revised with many aspects of the human body and psyche taken into consideration, rather than assuming each subject is the same.


I agree, and I considered that when I first read it. There were no inferrences to sex, race, or any other numerous relevant factors. Socio-economic environments and even a persons sexual preferences should be considered. Indians, who are quite stoic for the most part, fair well alone. Where emotionally wrought white women from large families may not do well at all. There are many factors that should have been taken into consideration. thumbsup.gif ~Jackal
Asphodel
QUOTE (JackalnChainz @ Jan 26 2008, 05:22 AM) *
I agree, and I considered that when I first read it. There were no inferrences to sex, race, or any other numerous relevant factors. Socio-economic environments and even a persons sexual preferences should be considered. Indians, who are quite stoic for the most part, fair well alone. Where emotionally wrought white women from large families may not do well at all. There are many factors that should have been taken into consideration. thumbsup.gif ~Jackal


So it's that little bit of Cherokee that allows me to fare well alone?

On a serious note, all of that and more should have been taken into consideration. It really bothers me that none of it was. It bothers me almost as bad as Myth Busters, or whatever that show is. Their experiments are typically flawed and misleading. If you are going to do something scientific you have to do it right, dang it! Then there is the fact that there are many things of far greater importance that should be studied. It's best that I just quiet myself here because it'll only become an even sillier rant.
JackalnChainz
QUOTE (Asphodel @ Jan 26 2008, 05:45 AM) *
So it's that little bit of Cherokee that allows me to fare well alone?

On a serious note, all of that and more should have been taken into consideration. It really bothers me that none of it was. It bothers me almost as bad as Myth Busters, or whatever that show is. Their experiments are typically flawed and misleading. If you are going to do something scientific you have to do it right, dang it! Then there is the fact that there are many things of far greater importance that should be studied. It's best that I just quiet myself here because it'll only become an even sillier rant.

lol, I feel a congressional spending speech coming on. rolleyes.gif It did seem pretty broad and undefined, but I thought its' concept was accurate, just from a common sense standpoint. Of course, statistically speaking, there should be 10 million other worlds in our galaxy alone, with intelligent life. Common sense tells you that one in 10 million may have possibly visited Earth. But try and tell that to a sceptic. So as I see it, in this field, common sense has little or no place. Common sense says that drawers do not open and close by themselves. lol. And ashtrays do not levitate. Common sense dictates that if I see the grass is green, so will everyone else. But alas... huh.gif lol. ~Jackal
tahari01
Jackal....seems like common sense is nonexistant nowadays. Why should we believe that we're the only living "things" out there in the universe...this includes spirits and aliens from another planet. I mean come on! We're being pretty naive if we believe we're the only ones "out there". Don't you think?
Episteme
I read this story on Yahoo. I was a little disappointed in the methods they used. I expected they would have at least one part with a good evaluation of people who said they were lonely, and others that weren't, figure out how true those statements were, and find out what beliefs were based on that. Seems like most people are pretty set in what they believe, watching a movie or something might alter that slightly (and temporarily), but personally my views don't change very easily.

As far as my beliefs, I believe in the paranormal but am skeptical of it as well, meaning I believe the vast majority can be explained scientifically. I'm certainly not lonely, frankly I wish I had more time to myself!

Atheist God
QUOTE (Lady_Anvilla_of_LagNess @ Jan 25 2008, 09:29 PM) *
With this theory, How do you explain the difference between same and different sightings over a period of time or with groups of people with different backgrounds/ beliefs experiencing and seeing the exact same physical manifestation? You have experience to say other wise?


A phenomenon called mass hallucination which has been demonstrated before to actually exist. If there are a bunch of people in the room all being influenced by strong EM fields and one person says hey look at the ghost it is likely that they may see it as well simply due to their brain functions being influenced by these fields.

While I certainly wont say this accounts for all cases and I wouldn't but since it has been PROVEN that strong EM fields can cause you to see and experience all types of things it is only logical to conclude that a lot of the so called hauntings really aren't hauntings at all.

In regards to people seeing the same thing in the same location over time, people go into these places hoping to experience what others have before. Ghost stories never stay a secret but if your under the influence of these fields and have an idea of what the ghost looks like you may see it too.

Beliefs and backgrounds really aren't an issue since EM fields effect everyone.
The Skeptic Eric Raven
QUOTE (tahari01 @ Jan 26 2008, 10:20 AM) *
Jackal....seems like common sense is nonexistant nowadays. Why should we believe that we're the only living "things" out there in the universe...this includes spirits and aliens from another planet. I mean come on! We're being pretty naive if we believe we're the only ones "out there". Don't you think?

To believe without proof is not common sense. Its faith.
Lady_Anvilabeel
QUOTE (AtheistGod @ Jan 26 2008, 09:46 PM) *
A phenomenon called mass hallucination which has been demonstrated before to actually exist. If there are a bunch of people in the room all being influenced by strong EM fields and one person says hey look at the ghost it is likely that they may see it as well simply due to their brain functions being influenced by these fields.

While I certainly wont say this accounts for all cases and I wouldn't but since it has been PROVEN that strong EM fields can cause you to see and experience all types of things it is only logical to conclude that a lot of the so called hauntings really aren't hauntings at all.

In regards to people seeing the same thing in the same location over time, people go into these places hoping to experience what others have before. Ghost stories never stay a secret but if your under the influence of these fields and have an idea of what the ghost looks like you may see it too.

Beliefs and backgrounds really aren't an issue since EM fields effect everyone.



Hmm, from my experiences I have to disagree. I had one group experience where people from different backgrounds and beliefs all witness the same apparition walking behind a mutual friend who was walking towards us. We actually assumed at first it was nothing but a person known to her walking with her towards us. The figure as it got closer was cut off from below the knee and simply fainted into nothing. This same figure has also been seen locally by many fisherman who locate the exact area ( fishing area)

The other experience of seeing an apparition on a regular basis from a young age in the same location ( house I grew up in) was that several years later I was talking to the previous occupants of the house who had also on several occasions seen the exact same apparition, right down to the colour of dress/clothing, yet you could put a decade in physical years between the shared sightings.

I don't feel EM is the cause so to speak but if anything I would argue it accompanies such activity, ie, energy is picked up as such or amps the conditions and affects the mind in the way that people are more open to seeing physically beyond the physical. How can you deduce what someone claims to 'see' is false?
Lady_Anvilabeel
QUOTE (Odd Christian @ Jan 26 2008, 10:03 AM) *
solitude and lonliness are not the same things. a person can be surrounded by people, but still be lonely, likewise, a person can be in solitude but not lonely. there are many variables to consider, besides a persons feeling of loneliness.
being alone is not the same as feeling lonely


I agree! - This was the part, or rather, the way it was worded that got up my nose and made me want to spit out what a load of BS. Loneliness has nothing to do with solitude thumbsup.gif
JackalnChainz
QUOTE (tahari01 @ Jan 26 2008, 10:20 AM) *
Jackal....seems like common sense is nonexistant nowadays. Why should we believe that we're the only living "things" out there in the universe...this includes spirits and aliens from another planet. I mean come on! We're being pretty naive if we believe we're the only ones "out there". Don't you think?


I absolutely totally agree! It's not just naive...it's conceited.

btw....if we are pulling off the political restraints, I have plenty to say. After all I spend 8 hours a day in debate. You might rethink your signature. The twelve richest men in the senate...are democrats. What do you call a senator with $100,000 of ill gotten cash in his freezer? A democrat. Try Jefferson. Oh..somebody stop me!
JackalnChainz
QUOTE (Episteme @ Jan 26 2008, 03:31 PM) *
I read this story on Yahoo. I was a little disappointed in the methods they used. I expected they would have at least one part with a good evaluation of people who said they were lonely, and others that weren't, figure out how true those statements were, and find out what beliefs were based on that. Seems like most people are pretty set in what they believe, watching a movie or something might alter that slightly (and temporarily), but personally my views don't change very easily.

As far as my beliefs, I believe in the paranormal but am skeptical of it as well, meaning I believe the vast majority can be explained scientifically. I'm certainly not lonely, frankly I wish I had more time to myself!


I echo this sentiment. I do feel that the vast majority of what we call paranormal is definable under our laws of physics, and explanable. But, my fight lays with getting the lasy tiny percentage recognized. And getting a sceptic to admit, he doesn't know. For everything, there is not an answer. At least not yet. And at the risk of repeating myself, just because there is a plausible explanation, does not mean it is the correct one. ~Jackal
JackalnChainz
QUOTE (Odd Christian @ Jan 26 2008, 04:03 AM) *
I agree, but the findings of the study is worthless, as It does not give the subjects beliefs prior to the experiment, only after. so everything I said, concerning this study is accurate.

Solitude gives a person more time for reflection of themselves, and if a believer to become more attuned to the spiritual, but solitude and lonliness are not the same things. a person can be surrounded by people, but still be lonely, likewise, a person can be in solitude but not lonely. there are many variables to consider, besides a persons feeling of loneliness.
being alone is not the same as feeling lonely


Oh I understand your point now. I agree. With a lack of a starting point, it is hard to see any deviations in the course. Also, I agree with your precept on loneliness. Well said. ~Jackal
JackalnChainz
QUOTE (Lady_Anvilla_of_LagNess @ Jan 26 2008, 09:48 PM) *
I agree! - This was the part, or rather, the way it was worded that got up my nose and made me want to spit out what a load of BS. Loneliness has nothing to do with solitude thumbsup.gif


I would say that isolation has little to do with loniless, but lonliness has a great deal to do with isolation. If you take the normal every day human, and isolate them, they most likely will become lonely. However, I do agree that a person can still be lonely in huge throngs of people.
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