1 Corinthians 9:25 states: Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever

Matthew 6:20 also states that:But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.

The Bible clearly teaches a reward system in Heaven. So why would God do this? Is God planning to have a series of games where people compete for rewards? If so what happens to the winner? Does he get a new car?

Whats the point in this? It makes it sound like God is having a contest to see who can win the most of something to aplease him

I don't get it....

No one? anyone??

i think it means everyone who tries really hard in life to become rich will only be rich as long as they live and no longer, then it means they compete to do good for god inorder to get to heaven and then god shows his gratitude to them. its bascially saying don't waste your life trying to be on top of the world cause you won't be there forever anyways only try to be good and giving and you will be rewarded.

rewards in heaven ? maybe it's no more than wishful thinking ? a childs if I'm good I get a cookie ?

Does the soul get to do what it finds pleasing ? I don't know. no one does. an NED isn't death. it's near death for no matter how long. No one once dead has come back to say what they do on the other side . maybe it's just another way of living but without human form and thinking. maybe we get to travel , learn , ask questions , have parties , get the cookie that is available to all ?

that's it. I'm off to the store for some cookies !!!!

Makes it sound like life is a gameshow...

lmao ! where we all guess and win !

who knows ?

I would hope that for a while I could have the farm house with the picket fence and a few horses and loving spouse and body that worked ( even if it's the spirit taking form since I do believe our spirits have none)

to have family around that doesn't only come when they want something but really out of love.

then maybe the next minute I may want to be painting with Rembrant or sculpting.

or be fishing on some lazy lake.

or traveling the universe to observe things I can't imagine.

( remember in the movie Contact ? where she was on the beach she had drawn ?)

who knows ? but if so ------- all are welcome to my place for a picnic with pots of corn on the cob , water mellon and spits of ribs n such !!! with a half court to play basket ball and a huge inground swimming pool !!! pony rides for the kids !!!! ect ................ sounds great ! I've have a special UM picnic table waiting so we still can debate ( pretty silly by then huh ?)

Not silly at all I'll be there.

Sounds like a Good time In no time.

I bless Good things up to heaven all the time.

Love Omnaka

Some have died and been temporarily just as dead as the dead they would still be if modern medicine hadn't revived them.

I think heaven's reward is similar to education's reward. Education's reward is that you are improved in knowledge for having studied. Heaven's reward being that you would be improved in spirit for having learned the value of the spirit.

Lt Ripley, you can conceive a heaven with nice things like painting and picnics and travelling the universe. And so perhaps that is what you will find.

But someone else of undeveloped spirit, who is chained to their base desires and the words of a book, might find a heaven of drunkeness and non-stop sex with 72 virgins. Maybe that is all they will find, because that is all their spirits can conceive of?

it's all up for grabs isn't it really ? that's just it . maybe we are all right onto ourselves ? I want to know it all , see it all , understand it all , ask all the questions and then some. watch evolution in fast forward. watch the end of it all and a possible rebirth if that happens too. I want it all. and have forever to do it in. so no limits here. Maybe my soul will want to experience extream fear ? hate? giving ? loving ?

who knows ?

I do know when you have one foot in yesterday and one in tomorrow your p*ssing all over today.

I always thought that being rewarded in heaven meant the chance to see all your loved ones again and never have a worry.cuz thats what we fear here on earth..the thoughts of never seeing our loved ones again EVER..so yea i guess the reward is getting to see them again...that would make me happy..<--but when i was like 4 or 5 yrs old..I thought the rewards in heaven where lots of candy...HA!!

I’ve heard that the streets were paved with gold not sure if that’s biblical I’ll look it up later. I know it's a song. I would think that going to heaven would be reward enough…The Bible tells you not to love earthly treasures. But it also tells people that the streets in heaven are paved with gold? Gold is an earthly treasure.


Isn't that a double standard of sorts?

If someone could prove to me that there's unlimited sex and debauchery in heaven then I would be the most religious mofo in the universe.

Then again, if someone could prove to me that there's unlimited sex and debauchery in hell then I'd still be the most religious mofo in the universe, although on the opposite side of the coin, of course.


Edit:when will I learn to speelll?

Living your life well is your own reward and your own punishment if you choose to live in evil. The afterlife i believe has many different voyages for the many different souls that pass over there each day. But the evil ones are punished and those punishments remain a secret i believe from all but a few big wigs up there in heaven.

I found this article, which asks the same question. With the same words?
http://www.discoverymagazine.com/digger/d02dd/d0209dd.html

Gold is only an earthly treasure by concensus, it has no intrinsic value besides that people agree it is valuable, and once was the standard of money. But anything can be the standard of money, as long as it's not too common.

It's what muslims promise their martyrs.

Then why is it said that the streets are paved with gold in heaven?

My answer?

The biblical streets of gold come from the description of the heavenly city of god described in revelations.

This heavenly city is believed to be the same place as the city of light which some near-death experiencers report.

When I had a near death experience, I saw a city which may or may not be the same. Everything seemed a silvery-golden color because of the very bright sunlight shining and refracting though the glass which almost everything was made of. So, briefly, streets looked a golden color, but this is not the same thing as being made of the metal gold.

Civilization have risen and fallen, King's like athetes trained their armies(as an athlete trains his body) to conquer as much as they could(run without purpose in the case of an athlete) knowing that at one point their Kingdom(prize) would eventually be conquered or fade away. So the prize which the apostle speaks of is a Kingdom which will last forever hence a prize which is incorruptable. So why put your money in a earthly Kingdom which will eventually fall and not a Kingdom which is guaranteed to last forever.

That's what I got from the biblical quotes.

There's that "decent" understanding of the Bible coming to haunt you again norwood. Did you read these passages in context? Did you read the verses the preceded them and followed them?

Just in case the articles you picked these up from didn't show them, here they are:

(1 Cor. 9:19-27)
As you can see, when you look at that verse in context, it's not actually talking about a prize in Heaven. Actually Paul is encouraging the Christians in the Church of Corinth, to strive to do God's will just like a person running a race runs it: to win, with dedication, with a specific goal in mind. It's NOT about some reward in Heaven.


Now, let's look at the other verse you quoted, but in context:
(Matt 6:19-21)

As you can clearly see, in context, the verse again is not talking about ACTUAL rewards in Heaven, it's talking about how we should live our lives here. As Christians we should live lives that don't focus on possessions, because possessions will fade, break, rust, and be destroyed, while the lives we touch, the love we share, the love we receive, can never be destroyed.

me thinks someone is not understanding the bible.

Once again, you run into the greatest strength and weakness of Christianity - the fact that the bible can be interpreted to say whatever you want.

You read this and interpret it as a directive to live a good life. I'm not a Christian, but I still see it saying defer payment until death.

A guy I grew up with, with the foulest (my opinion) outlook on all things religious is very publicly christian. When we were kids, we often talked about our religious convictions or lack thereof.

His attitude on this was: Accepting that Jesus died for your sins is buying the ticket to heaven - period. Anything you think or do before, after, or during this acceptance will be forgiven. In other words acceptance (which in his world means letting brother billy dunk you in front of everybody) was the license to kill - treat anyone however you want and you're still "going to the show". Now, he uses the verse question in the following logic: "The bible says we're storing up treasures in heaven. I think it's saying if we sacrifice ourselves here on earth, we'll have a bigger house in heaven. I can live in a shack, as long as it's in the right neighborhood. That's why I get the best of both worlds - I KNOW I'm going to heaven because I've accepted JC as my saviour, but I don't need to worry about how to live my life because I'm not selfish."

That last was a verbatim quote from a conversation we had. There's no need to point out the fallacy of it to me. My point remains that whether or not you personally agree, there are self-proclaimed christians who do interpret this verse as an excuse to dismiss any personal responsibility when it comes to their actions. Many christians I know hold this attitude that the crappiest house in the slummiest neighborhood in Heaven is going to be paradise beyond imagining compared to anything on earth, therefore christians who do try to help people and live good lives are just being greedy.

They might indeed interpret this passage like that, but I ask - does that mean they are right? It is true that you can interpret the Bible many ways, but it is also true that some interpretations are more valid than others. Just because some Christians interpret a passage without looking at the context does not mean that the Bible can thus mean anything you like. It just means that someone has done more valid reading. That applies to anything. Read a newspaper article, and if you take one line from it you can make it mean whatever you want, but the article provides the context for you so that you know what it's speaking about. When we read a newspaper article context is natural. Yet oddly, when people read the Bible (both Christians and non-Chrisitans) suddenly the context stops having any meaning for many.

Just a few thoughts to consider.

~ Regards, PA

gorgeous avatar where did you find it?

Do you think that Paul could be using an allegory here? Could the crown that Paul refers be the crowning reward of immortality, which will last forever? Before rejecting this suggestion, please consider what a Christian is encouraged to strive for:

# [God] Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life (Rom 2:6-7).
Think about it, folks -- "glory and honour and immortality, eternal life" -- now THAT is quite a target to aim for, is it not?

# I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith. Now there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, shall give me at that Day; and not to me only, but also to all those who love His appearing (2Tim 4:7-8).

# And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. … And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years (Rev 20:4-6).

Storing treasure in heaven could be an analogy, in my opinion -- We humans store our treasures in a bank vault, or in a similarly secure place. I would hazard a guess that a Christian’s “spiritual bank vault” is in Heaven -- and I don't think too many of us would like to live inside a bank vault.

But these are just speculations ...

I think the reward system implied throughout the bible is truly inserted by man as a means to an end, no doubt for logical reasons.

Alot of people miss the fact that a domintae religion is usually reflected by the dominate class of people or more effectionately....the ones in charge dictate the religion of the populous, they are one in the same.

In order to rule with relative smoothness the ruled class need be led to operate with the Ruling Class's best interest, this is the only way to maintain power and control. So inevitably the bible makes ultimatums that reflect the very nature of the Ruling Class's best wishes.

As far as the verses stated in the OP they are a tool or creative resource that can be utilized by the Ruling Class to make the ruled class believe, act, strive, die, kill at their bidding in order to achieve added rewards, or more a popular sitting in heaven as a result of obeying the Ruling Class's bidding.

[quote name='IamsSon' date='Jan 28 2008, 06:01 AM' post='2122036']
There's that "decent" understanding of the Bible coming to haunt you again norwood. Did you read these passages in context? Did you read the verses the preceded them and followed them?

Sorry but I've watched christians fight among themselves about what a verse means think I'm going to believe your version?

You don't have to believe my version... in fact, in the same way that the Bible encourages it's readers and the followers of Christ to question and not blindly accept what a preacher says, I very strongly encourage you to study it for yourself. But study it, Like PA said in a post above, you would not take a sentence out of a newspaper article, give it whatever meaning you want, and expect to actually be right, just because you want it to mean that. Study it, look at what Paul was saying before and after the verses, notice who he was talking to and what he was talking to them about. Please PLEASE do not take my word for it.

Spoken like a true christian. The Lord helps those who helps themselves. Although, I was raised Primitive Southern Baptist, so the whole questioning the preacher was a BIG NO NO. It was, "believe what I say or leave the church". So I left, to study on my own, because I think no 1 religion(of god) has it right. Each religion has a piece of the original knowledge handed down from God. The only way, in my opinion, to have the whole story is for all people of major(god following) religions to research their brains out and make some sense of it all! Consider all of the "lost books" of the bible. How much information is missing from our precious Bible? Face it my fellow God worshippers, our fellow man intentionally left us in the dark concerning these lost fragments of the Bible. What perplexes me is...why take this information out of the Bible? POSSIBLE ANSWER: Greed, Anger...Protection?

If you’re a God that loves his creation so much the why place messages that come across as cryptic? Why does he seem to want to make it hard to understand whatever point he’s trying to make? I agree with what you said about not believing in what people & preachers tell you. He’s made it easy for those who believe in him to get into his kingdom so why are the hidden meanings? Seems like a lot of double talk going on there.

Thanks!

Sorry, I think Ben Franklin said this and it's not really supported by Biblical teaching. God helps those who have admitted they can't help themselves, and realized He wants to help them just because He loves them.


Or maybe... because the majority of the churches and teachers in the early church were able to discern that these books were not God-inspired, and so did not accept them and use them as they did the books which were eventually compiled as the New Testament. This is the answer supported by the graduates of Dallas Theological Seminary I know.

Because you're unwilling to take the time to study does not mean God is cryptic.

i love the bible its like a riddle.
note translations may have not been word for word its better to try to get the gist of it then take it literally.

a crown that lasts forever.= obviously not material. hmm a legacy perhaps [a lasting kingdom or nation.]

store up in heaven = plan for when you die.

this may imply there is a reward for those who think ahead rather then those who do good.

does it actually define heaven in the bible or is it another worv that can mean 300 things.

for example
heaven=death[where]=the sky

Why should I care about what your God says he's yours not mine. Hope you got it right!

Nik Xues, I'm not saying that everyone does this but I think people to like to twist the words to fit their cause.

I was just answering the question you asked in a previous post, if you don't care why do you keep asking?

Because I can...

.

we will see only what we choose to see.
that is why communication and teamwork is required[need a different pov to learn].

but i prefer a Kiss method. after all if it wasnt such a simple world wouldnt god have spent more time on it?

This is a DEBATE forum grow up..

but plenty have studied. just because they don't agree with your opinion doesn't mean they haven't.

And if I was talking with someone who HAD actually bothered to study, your post might actually be of some value, but since the poster I'm talking to has admitted to having what he considers only a decent understanding of the Bible--an understanding which is so decent he didn't even know the story of Abraham sacrificing Isaac, even though he was quoting it to make a point--your post is not really germane to this discussion, is it?

the point I'm making is you seem to jump on anyone who doesn't conform to your opinion of what the bible means. you automatically take the stance that one isn't educated or educated 'properly ' aka the way you see it.

Didn't you say before not to take your word or others as far as what the bible says?

The story of the servants and the talents they were given to invest could be interpreted as supporting this view. I know it is often thought to refer to making use of the gifts god gave you, but it is such a clear and direct example that it also has a practical meaning. It is your duty to help yourself and your family and even caesar as much as you can. When you have done all you can, then god can step in and do the heavy lifting. The servant who put the talents safely away, but made no profit for his master, was chided with the suggestion he should have invested, and increased, his masters wealth.

A great deal of the bible is actually devoted to laws and practices designed to promote a healthy happy life on earth,for individuals and for societies, suggesting that a christian life on earth is at least as important as the reward of getting to heaven. If christians don' act in a truly christian way, then how can they really hope to win the hearts and souls of non believers.

To extend this idea a little more, the bible ( while a little contradictory) does suggest that by living a christian life, we will receive many rewards in our mortal life. To be a good person is an end in itself, and a benefit to you and the society you live in, as well as an expectation of god.

Its like the parable of money. It's not money thats evil, only what happens when people love it above other more important things, and begin to idolise/worship money and its effects. While jesus said a rich man would have trouble getting into heaven, this was in response to a rich man trying to buy his way into heaven. In another instance he praised a very wealthy, but faithful believer, saying that he was assured a place in heaven.

Often the problem is that in acting to ensure rewards on earth ; money ,status, power etc we directly act opposite to how we need to act to show our love and trust in god. Sadly many people today believe that simply asking forgiveness will ensure salvation. It will not work if repentance is not sincere; and that sincerity will be demonstrated in our actions.

such a dense responce ..because you can!!!!!

He didnt ask you if you could...he asked WHY???

Well with responces such as - because I can is hardly classed as a debate lol...it just shows you are stuck for answers...

ME stuck for anwsers? Hardly.

He's said in a past post that I should not take anyone personal thoughts on what the bible says at face vaule (even his) but at the same time he seems to want to tell me his version of what the bible says. I doubt if he's an expert in the bible in fact if there are any left in the world I'd be impressed but more then likey they are all dead & gone.

You made it look as though you had no answer so that's why you said - because I can <---that was a response to a questiion dircted at you asking you WHY do you keep asking blah blah....

If you had a REAL answer, then you would have told him WHY...not because I can <--thats not an answer, thats a cop out

I gave you a response arrived at by study, actually study of the Bible. Not just my own, but that of various Biblical experts. However, I am aware that it is one interpretation of many, that even people who have studied the Bible as a career can and do often disagree, which is why I encouraged you not to simply take my interpretation as the correct interpretation and to actually study it, not just read a few verses from some website as you seem to have done up until now.

The problem is that your childish and flippant answers, which culminated with "because I can" were not in response to me having said this. They were in response to me asking you why you bothered to ask questions if you didn't care about the answers, and so have nothing to do with me encouraging you to study the Bible for yourself.

Your right for every so called experts that you say studied the bible as you say & those who you are agreement with there are an equal amount who disagree with you & them. You & other take the translations that you like & go with it. I make sure I read all the entire verses when I quote the bible. Preachers pick & choose during a sermon so do those who teach bible class just to make his/her point Regardless I can give the whole scripture if you want it still does not justify some of the things that the bible says your God has done. So my question still stands why should people believe someone else's idea of what the bible says? Even their own? Because in the end the fighting among chrisitans will continue but I admit that it happens in all religions not just yours.

Hmmmm I see....kina like a poem...remove a few words and put in what you want it to read....its easy done