I’m curious about what you all believe what Pagans believe could you tell us ( those of us who are Pagans)
In your own words are about?
Please don not look it up I’d like to know exactly what is that YOU think.
Also keep in mind that Pagans is a tern that does not fall under the Judeo-Christian umbrella, there for in cover alot of religions that you might not know of.
The whole reason I’m asking this is because of the last couple of threads about Satan & the chick tracts.
Full Version: What do you think a Pagan is?
I dunno what "pagan" means... to me, it has about as much meaning as the word "christian" there are so many different beliefs and practices, it's almost a worthless word in my opinion. Almost as worthless a word as "christian" is for describing someone's belief system anyway.
Good question. Usually, the first thing that springs to mind when I think Pagan is the Green Man / Horned God and the Triple Goddess.
The original latin word meant literally peasant or country person, hence "civilian". Most Americans are familiar with the Italian word paisano-same thing. The early xians called themselves "soldiers for christ", so non-xians were "pagans" or "civilians". Strangely the word was not used for Jews, for whom there were even more hateful epithets. Soon after, they took over the Roman Empire, and exterminated those who wouldn't convert to the new "faith", so the terminology took on a strikingly real literal meaning. In England, where worship of the "old gods" persisted until the 1300's, the rituals were performed on the heath, outdoors, hence the word "heathen", away from the hateful xian eyes. The new "religion thus spread like "wildfire" all over Europe, murdering hundreds of thousands who stood in their way. In the new world, xians commited wanton mercilous genocide against native populations. Jesus of Nazareth, if he were a real person, would have been horrified. Most modern westerners include Jews, muslims and xians as non-pagans. This not my opinion, nor did I have to look any of this up. Now for my opinion: I think modern "Neo-Pagans" should choose a better name, rather than define themselves by ancient terms of hatred. It would be like Jews calling themselves "Christ-Killers", or the like. What Pagans believe: there are a multitude of Gods and Goddesses, who are all really expressions of the One, who govern various functions and forces of nature. These various Deities, who definitely function as if independent of each other, interact in seasonal changes, and are appealed to in various ways. The idea idea is to acheive self perfection through oneness with the Gods.
country dweller
I always connected it with the country - the earth. simplicity.
oh and big heavy rocks !
oh and big heavy rocks !
QUOTE (GIDEON MAGE @ Jan 31 2008, 09:52 PM) 
The original latin word meant literally peasant or country person, hence "civilian". Most Americans are familiar with the Italian word paisano-same thing. The early xians called themselves "soldiers for christ", so non-xians were "pagans" or "civilians". Strangely the word was not used for Jews, for whom there were even more hateful epithets. Soon after, they took over the Roman Empire, and exterminated those who wouldn't convert to the new "faith", so the terminology took on a strikingly real literal meaning. In England, where worship of the "old gods" persisted until the 1300's, the rituals were performed on the heath, outdoors, hence the word "heathen", away from the hateful xian eyes. The new "religion thus spread like "wildfire" all over Europe, murdering hundreds of thousands who stood in their way. In the new world, xians commited wanton mercilous genocide against native populations. Jesus of Nazareth, if he were a real person, would have been horrified. Most modern westerners include Jews, muslims and xians as non-pagans. This not my opinion, nor did I have to look any of this up. Now for my opinion: I think modern "Neo-Pagans" should choose a better name, rather than define themselves by ancient terms of hatred. It would be like Jews calling themselves "Christ-Killers", or the like. What Pagans believe: there are a multitude of Gods and Goddesses, who are all really expressions of the One, who govern various functions and forces of nature. These various Deities, who definitely function as if independent of each other, interact in seasonal changes, and are appealed to in various ways. The idea idea is to acheive self perfection through oneness with the Gods.
Nice post Gideon, although I would disagree with the highlighted sentence.
The term 'pagan' or 'neo-pagan' is still appropriate. Especially here in the US where many fundamentalist christian groups consider themselves at war with everything that is non-christian. Pagan, meaning country dweller or civilian, serves in good stead with the mostly peaceful intentions and beliefs of its practioners in light of the fact that many christians still considers themselves 'soldiers' in a war between heaven and hell.
I'm sure that many pagans would rather stay out of that 'war' and be left peacefully alone by the warriors of god..
Mmmn.. think I'll let the non pagans answer what pagan means. *snickers*
Honestly, I dun care about the word... even though I'm technicaly pagan. Shaman really.
Honestly, I dun care about the word... even though I'm technicaly pagan. Shaman really.
[quote name='GIDEON MAGE' . The idea idea is to acheive self perfection through oneness with the Gods.
[/quote]
Interesting, however that is what Buddhist believe which is does fall under the Pagan umbrella the biggest difference is that real Buddhist do not believe that he is God. Yes. There are those who worship him but he never asked to be worshiped. Personally I don not try to be perfect I believe that that is impossible to achieve, at the same time I do not believe that we were born into sin & that we are subject to being led into temptation by Satan. I think when you do something wrong it’s a choice.
As far as the rest of your post I can’t figure out where you got the idea owe hate other religions, the only thing we really dislike is the idea of someone believing that theirs is the one & ONLY right religion.
[/quote]
Interesting, however that is what Buddhist believe which is does fall under the Pagan umbrella the biggest difference is that real Buddhist do not believe that he is God. Yes. There are those who worship him but he never asked to be worshiped. Personally I don not try to be perfect I believe that that is impossible to achieve, at the same time I do not believe that we were born into sin & that we are subject to being led into temptation by Satan. I think when you do something wrong it’s a choice.
As far as the rest of your post I can’t figure out where you got the idea owe hate other religions, the only thing we really dislike is the idea of someone believing that theirs is the one & ONLY right religion.
Please correct me if I'm wrong(probably am) but I believe the word Pagan is a 'blanket term' that can apply to any number of religious beliefs. Often used to label the polytheistic religions that predated the Abrahamic religions although often attributed to any polytheistic religion. Religions such as those of Native Americans, the Greek pantheon, Norse mythology, Ancient Egyptians, etc. are all examples. Even Hinduism and Wiccan beliefs are labeled as Pagan.
Saying that someone is Pagan is kind of like saying that someone is a Theist...it really doesn't describe what their religion or belief really is.
Although when somebody tells me they are a Pagan I usually make the assumption that they belong to one of the old nature based faiths...of course I usually ask them what kind of Pagan they are afterwards.
I'm not a Pagan but I don't like the term...its too broad and undescriptive. I mean if someone tells me their Christian or Buhhdist I know instantly what their religion is, with Paganism I have no idea...could be anything. The term also suffers from a bad history...uneducated people attribute paganism to things like devil worship and cult like behavior.
Saying that someone is Pagan is kind of like saying that someone is a Theist...it really doesn't describe what their religion or belief really is.
Although when somebody tells me they are a Pagan I usually make the assumption that they belong to one of the old nature based faiths...of course I usually ask them what kind of Pagan they are afterwards.
I'm not a Pagan but I don't like the term...its too broad and undescriptive. I mean if someone tells me their Christian or Buhhdist I know instantly what their religion is, with Paganism I have no idea...could be anything. The term also suffers from a bad history...uneducated people attribute paganism to things like devil worship and cult like behavior.
[quote name='Cadetak' date='Feb 1 2008, 03:20 PM' post='2129599']
Please correct me if I'm wrong(probably am) but I believe the word Pagan is a 'blanket term' that can apply to any number of religious beliefs. Often used to label the polytheistic religions that predated the Abrahamic religions although often attributed to any polytheistic religion. Religions such as those of Native Americans, the Greek pantheon, Norse mythology, Ancient Egyptians, etc. are all examples. Even Hinduism and Wiccan beliefs are labeled as Pagan.
[quote]
You quite right this is probably due to the fact that in early christian history people who were not christian were often referred to as Pagan. In theory anyone who is not of the Abrahamic faith is termed as a Pagan!
Please correct me if I'm wrong(probably am) but I believe the word Pagan is a 'blanket term' that can apply to any number of religious beliefs. Often used to label the polytheistic religions that predated the Abrahamic religions although often attributed to any polytheistic religion. Religions such as those of Native Americans, the Greek pantheon, Norse mythology, Ancient Egyptians, etc. are all examples. Even Hinduism and Wiccan beliefs are labeled as Pagan.
[quote]
You quite right this is probably due to the fact that in early christian history people who were not christian were often referred to as Pagan. In theory anyone who is not of the Abrahamic faith is termed as a Pagan!
What do you think a Pagan is?
someone who plays D&D and WOW online....
When someone said that "Pagan" is a blanket term that covers many religions, they were correct. Even tribes in Africa could be called Pagan because they tend to worship the land and deities in control of certain parts of it, (for example, rivers and the weather)
My own personal Pagan beliefs simply revolve around the worship of Mother Earth, and the creatures on it.
For the most part, I try to maintain a balance in my life, I try to improve myself as well as I am able... for instance, trying to improve my relationships with family and friends, respecting the environment by picking up trash, or simply going out and communing with nature. I believe that everyone should be free to follow whatever spiritual path they wish, so long as it feels right to them.
Blessed Be!
My own personal Pagan beliefs simply revolve around the worship of Mother Earth, and the creatures on it.
For the most part, I try to maintain a balance in my life, I try to improve myself as well as I am able... for instance, trying to improve my relationships with family and friends, respecting the environment by picking up trash, or simply going out and communing with nature. I believe that everyone should be free to follow whatever spiritual path they wish, so long as it feels right to them.
Blessed Be!
Through reading forums such as this, I was aware that "Pagan" was a general term for the country folk (though if I had not read the answers already given, I probably would have answered taht a pagan is a "commoner" - with no belief in Jesus, which probably isn't entirely accurate).
That said, this is what a "pagan" was. In the modern world, the term "pagan" carries a very different tone. My experience of pagans is would lead me to the conclusion that they usually worship multiple gods, that these gods are gods of nature, that through these gods they can influence the world around them, and that celebrations of their festivals often involve large quantities of mulled wine - the Katoomba Winter Magic (celebrating Winter Solstice) Festival is one of the highlights of my year most of the time.
That said, this is what a "pagan" was. In the modern world, the term "pagan" carries a very different tone. My experience of pagans is would lead me to the conclusion that they usually worship multiple gods, that these gods are gods of nature, that through these gods they can influence the world around them, and that celebrations of their festivals often involve large quantities of mulled wine - the Katoomba Winter Magic (celebrating Winter Solstice) Festival is one of the highlights of my year most of the time.
I don't mined the word Pagan, with its old meaning of country person it kind of speaks of the connection with the Earth. It is easier to explain than Neo-Celtic-Druid. Many names of groups start out as a derogatory terms and end up being adopted the groups.
I always thought pagans worshiped the earth/mother nature, which IMO is very admirable, as I am fascinated and awestruck by the natural world myself. I perceive pagans as good down to earth people whom have no overarching religious, or political agendas as so many other religions do. I have never been harassed or criticized by any Pagans for my beliefs, and the pagans I know have always treated me with love and respect. They are good folks in my book.
Paganism is a HUGE umbrella for anything that does not fall under the Judeo-Christian concept .
Not all of the Pagan beliefs are earth based religions take for instance Buddhism yes it falls under the term Pagan but they do not believe in any Gods. Satanism too is not an earth based religion more so they are atheist then anything but for some reason I do not know of they to are classified under the Pagan umbrella.
The Pagans I know like to keep to themselves the only thing they we really do not agree with is when someone states that his/her religion is the one TRUE belife. I've never heard of a group of Pagans getting toghether for a religous cause or for a political cause which is something I'm very happy about because we've all seen what happens when one religion gets too much power.
Not all of the Pagan beliefs are earth based religions take for instance Buddhism yes it falls under the term Pagan but they do not believe in any Gods. Satanism too is not an earth based religion more so they are atheist then anything but for some reason I do not know of they to are classified under the Pagan umbrella.
The Pagans I know like to keep to themselves the only thing they we really do not agree with is when someone states that his/her religion is the one TRUE belife. I've never heard of a group of Pagans getting toghether for a religous cause or for a political cause which is something I'm very happy about because we've all seen what happens when one religion gets too much power.
QUOTE (evancj @ Feb 1 2008, 07:41 AM)
I always thought pagans worshiped the earth/mother nature, which IMO is very admirable, as I am fascinated and awestruck by the natural world myself. I perceive pagans as good down to earth people whom have no overarching religious, or political agendas as so many other religions do. I have never been harassed or criticized by any Pagans for my beliefs, and the pagans I know have always treated me with love and respect. They are good folks in my book.
This is why I respect Pagans a lot.
QUOTE (evancj @ Feb 1 2008, 04:41 PM)
I always thought pagans worshiped the earth/mother nature, which IMO is very admirable, as I am fascinated and awestruck by the natural world myself. I perceive pagans as good down to earth people whom have no overarching religious, or political agendas as so many other religions do. I have never been harassed or criticized by any Pagans for my beliefs, and the pagans I know have always treated me with love and respect. They are good folks in my book.
Thank you.
QUOTE (norwood1026 @ Feb 1 2008, 06:06 PM)
Paganism is a HUGE umbrella for anything that does not fall under the Judeo-Christian concept .
Not all of the Pagan beliefs are earth based religions take for instance Buddhism yes it falls under the term Pagan but they do not believe in any Gods. Satanism too is not an earth based religion more so they are atheist then anything but for some reason I do not know of they to are classified under the Pagan umbrella.
The Pagans I know like to keep to themselves the only thing they we really do not agree with is when someone states that his/her religion is the one TRUE belife. I've never heard of a group of Pagans getting toghether for a religous cause or for a political cause which is something I'm very happy about because we've all seen what happens when one religion gets too much power.
Not all of the Pagan beliefs are earth based religions take for instance Buddhism yes it falls under the term Pagan but they do not believe in any Gods. Satanism too is not an earth based religion more so they are atheist then anything but for some reason I do not know of they to are classified under the Pagan umbrella.
The Pagans I know like to keep to themselves the only thing they we really do not agree with is when someone states that his/her religion is the one TRUE belife. I've never heard of a group of Pagans getting toghether for a religous cause or for a political cause which is something I'm very happy about because we've all seen what happens when one religion gets too much power.
If you ask a Buddhist or a Hindu whether or not they are Pagan They will tell you no. Buddhism is a revealed religion because it comes from a single source, Buddha. Hinduism does have its source from the Veda traditions, so it is also a revealed religion but it does fit the Earth bill of Paganism. Native Americans don't like being called Pagan either, but under the modern definition they are Pagan. Satanist will tell you they are Pagans but most Pagans will say no they are not, including me I think they are more part of the Judeo-Christian tradition.
Pagan religions are Earth based religions because the source for the religion is the Earth not a single source like a book or a prophet. Just my little old IMO. The books called the Wiccan Bible are misnomers while Garold Gardner is the founder I see very few Wiccan using his books. So I don't know if Wicca is a revealed religion or not which would put it outside the Pagan realm, but I am not going there. Nothing worse than having a bunch of Witches mad at you.
QUOTE (Darkwind @ Feb 1 2008, 07:56 PM)
Thank you.
If you ask a Buddhist or a Hindu whether or not they are Pagan They will tell you no. Buddhism is a revealed religion because it comes from a single source, Buddha. Hinduism does have its source from the Veda traditions, so it is also a revealed religion but it does fit the Earth bill of Paganism. Native Americans don't like being called Pagan either, but under the modern definition they are Pagan. Satanist will tell you they are Pagans but most Pagans will say no they are not, including me I think they are more part of the Judeo-Christian tradition.
Pagan religions are Earth based religions because the source for the religion is the Earth not a single source like a book or a prophet. Just my little old IMO. The books called the Wiccan Bible are misnomers while Garold Gardner is the founder I see very few Wiccan using his books. So I don't know if Wicca is a revealed religion or not which would put it outside the Pagan realm, but I am not going there. Nothing worse than having a bunch of Witches mad at you.
If you ask a Buddhist or a Hindu whether or not they are Pagan They will tell you no. Buddhism is a revealed religion because it comes from a single source, Buddha. Hinduism does have its source from the Veda traditions, so it is also a revealed religion but it does fit the Earth bill of Paganism. Native Americans don't like being called Pagan either, but under the modern definition they are Pagan. Satanist will tell you they are Pagans but most Pagans will say no they are not, including me I think they are more part of the Judeo-Christian tradition.
Pagan religions are Earth based religions because the source for the religion is the Earth not a single source like a book or a prophet. Just my little old IMO. The books called the Wiccan Bible are misnomers while Garold Gardner is the founder I see very few Wiccan using his books. So I don't know if Wicca is a revealed religion or not which would put it outside the Pagan realm, but I am not going there. Nothing worse than having a bunch of Witches mad at you.
I would argue that "real" wiccans have revealed texts. My favorite is Aradia, which you may read for free online:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/aradia/index.htm
The author, Charles G. Leland, was what we would call now an "anthropologist", a term not really yet in use in the late 1800's. Try reading it; it is truly beautiful. My favorite quote is:
QUOTE
And ye shall all be freed from slavery,
And so ye shall be free in everything
And so ye shall be free in everything
truly "antiestablishment", eh?
Aradia is a rarity, a female Messiah/hero figure, unlike Jesus/Mithras/Osiris/Odin.
The term "Judeo-Xian" in reference to Satanism is offensive to many. Xians believe in a God of Evil; Jews don't. There simply are no jewish Satanists. only xian ones.
QUOTE (GIDEON MAGE @ Feb 2 2008, 02:21 AM)
I would argue that "real" wiccans have revealed texts. My favorite is Aradia, which you may read for free online:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/aradia/index.htm
The author, Charles G. Leland, was what we would call now an "anthropologist", a term not really yet in use in the late 1800's. Try reading it; it is truly beautiful. My favorite quote is:
truly "antiestablishment", eh?
Aradia is a rarity, a female Messiah/hero figure, unlike Jesus/Mithras/Osiris/Odin.
The term "Judeo-Xian" in reference to Satanism is offensive to many. Xians believe in a God of Evil; Jews don't. There simply are no jewish Satanists. only xian ones.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/aradia/index.htm
The author, Charles G. Leland, was what we would call now an "anthropologist", a term not really yet in use in the late 1800's. Try reading it; it is truly beautiful. My favorite quote is:
truly "antiestablishment", eh?
Aradia is a rarity, a female Messiah/hero figure, unlike Jesus/Mithras/Osiris/Odin.
The term "Judeo-Xian" in reference to Satanism is offensive to many. Xians believe in a God of Evil; Jews don't. There simply are no jewish Satanists. only xian ones.
Shhhhh.. don't tell the Wiccans. You really don't find a lot of Gardnerian Wiccans. I have know people who have been members of Gardnerian Covens. It is not my cup of tea. Keep you head down, but imo like most founders of religions Gardner was a bit of a crack pot.
Thanks for the link, I will look at it.
My humble apology, to any Child of Abraham I have offended. You are correct of course.
Leland seems to be more accepted then Gardner was I’m not exactly sure why but I do agree that Gardner did get a bit strange in his writings at times.
I was taught that any religion that did not fall under the Judeo-Christian faith was termed Pagan.
Pagan is such a very broad term that it can be very difficult to pin it down everyone has his//her ideas of what a Pagan is or should be.
Christians back in the day thought Pagan were people who were rednecks of the day. Witchcraft to me is more of a way of life then a religion & (in my belief is not a Pagan) but like we've said before Pagan has so many different meanings.
For some people Paganism is any set of belifes that are pre-christian.
I was taught that any religion that did not fall under the Judeo-Christian faith was termed Pagan.
Pagan is such a very broad term that it can be very difficult to pin it down everyone has his//her ideas of what a Pagan is or should be.
Christians back in the day thought Pagan were people who were rednecks of the day. Witchcraft to me is more of a way of life then a religion & (in my belief is not a Pagan) but like we've said before Pagan has so many different meanings.
For some people Paganism is any set of belifes that are pre-christian.
QUOTE (Darkwind @ Feb 2 2008, 02:58 PM)
Thanks for the link, I will look at it.
My humble apology, to any Child of Abraham I have offended. You are correct of course.
My humble apology, to any Child of Abraham I have offended. You are correct of course.
I forgive you, in the name of Avraham.
QUOTE (norwood1026 @ Feb 2 2008, 09:22 PM)
Leland seems to be more accepted then Gardner was I’m not exactly sure why but I do agree that Gardner did get a bit strange in his writings at times.
I was taught that any religion that did not fall under the Judeo-Christian faith was termed Pagan.
Pagan is such a very broad term that it can be very difficult to pin it down everyone has his//her ideas of what a Pagan is or should be.
Christians back in the day thought Pagan were people who were rednecks of the day. Witchcraft to me is more of a way of life then a religion & (in my belief is not a Pagan) but like we've said before Pagan has so many different meanings.
For some people Paganism is any set of belifes that are pre-christian.
I was taught that any religion that did not fall under the Judeo-Christian faith was termed Pagan.
Pagan is such a very broad term that it can be very difficult to pin it down everyone has his//her ideas of what a Pagan is or should be.
Christians back in the day thought Pagan were people who were rednecks of the day. Witchcraft to me is more of a way of life then a religion & (in my belief is not a Pagan) but like we've said before Pagan has so many different meanings.
For some people Paganism is any set of belifes that are pre-christian.
Christianity was a cosmopolitan belief of the people living in cities. Kings liked it cause of its control aspects. The country folk and farmers tried to stick to their old ways. It was a religion of the Earth, and they were very tied to Earth. That is why Pagans are considered country folk. I was taught Pagan religions were Earth religions and indigenous religions and that meant the source for the religion was the Earth rather than a book, prophet, Messiah or guru.
QUOTE
I was taught Pagan religions were Earth religions and indigenous religions and that meant the source for the religion was the Earth rather than a book, prophet, Messiah or guru.
But Aradia was definitely a Messiah, the daughter of the Goddess, sent to help the oppressed by teaching them magic to protect themselves.
something yummy
QUOTE (evancj @ Feb 1 2008, 04:41 PM)
I always thought pagans worshiped the earth/mother nature, which IMO is very admirable, as I am fascinated and awestruck by the natural world myself. I perceive pagans as good down to earth people whom have no overarching religious, or political agendas as so many other religions do. I have never been harassed or criticized by any Pagans for my beliefs, and the pagans I know have always treated me with love and respect. They are good folks in my book.
I feel exactly the same !!
Are you sure we aren't the same person ? When I'm asleep you take over ? LOL !!!
QUOTE (GIDEON MAGE @ Feb 3 2008, 11:58 PM)
But Aradia was definitely a Messiah, the daughter of the Goddess, sent to help the oppressed by teaching them magic to protect themselves.
Then I would say under my criteria it doesn't meet the definition of Pagan, it fall under the same iffy area as Wicca. It is all just my opinion of what a Pagan religion is. Eventually the dictionary gods will come up with a proper definition of Paganism.
QUOTE
pa·gan (pgn)
n.
1. One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
2. One who has no religion.
3. A non-Christian.
4. A hedonist.
5. A Neo-Pagan.
adj.
1. Not Christian, Muslim, or Jewish.
2. Professing no religion; heathen.
3. Neo-Pagan.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pagan
n.
1. One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
2. One who has no religion.
3. A non-Christian.
4. A hedonist.
5. A Neo-Pagan.
adj.
1. Not Christian, Muslim, or Jewish.
2. Professing no religion; heathen.
3. Neo-Pagan.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pagan
This is the actual definition Paganism so I am all wet and Norwood is correct.
Interestingly, the King James translation does not have the word "pagan" anywhere in its pages.
In biblical times Jews regarded non-Hebrew peoples as “gentiles”, or “goyim”, and some Bible translations use the word ”pagans” for that description.
When non-Hebrews accepted Jesus as their Saviour, this difference between racial nationalities became a non-event, in New Testament writings. Take 1Cor 12:2 for instance:
1Co 12:2 (KJV) Ye know that ye were Gentiles …
1Co 12:2 (LITV) You know that being led away, you nations …
1Co 12:2 (ESV) You know that when you were pagans …
Earlier posts in this thread have shown that the meaning of the word “pagan” is often misunderstood these days. With that in mind, should we maybe try to avoid using that word when talking about people who do not regard themselves as Christians? After all, there is much to learn from other points of view, and from other faiths.
In biblical times Jews regarded non-Hebrew peoples as “gentiles”, or “goyim”, and some Bible translations use the word ”pagans” for that description.
When non-Hebrews accepted Jesus as their Saviour, this difference between racial nationalities became a non-event, in New Testament writings. Take 1Cor 12:2 for instance:
1Co 12:2 (KJV) Ye know that ye were Gentiles …
1Co 12:2 (LITV) You know that being led away, you nations …
1Co 12:2 (ESV) You know that when you were pagans …
Earlier posts in this thread have shown that the meaning of the word “pagan” is often misunderstood these days. With that in mind, should we maybe try to avoid using that word when talking about people who do not regard themselves as Christians? After all, there is much to learn from other points of view, and from other faiths.
^ Interesting point, Karlis. While I personally don't think the KJV is the most accurate of Bibles, in this instance it appears to have the jump on some of the other translations going around. Though to be fair, the Greek word ethnos (I would guess this is where we get our English word "Ethnic", though I could be wrong) is not a direct translation for "Gentile" - it could be referring to any non-Christian, and in terms of this thread, a "pagan" is anyone who was not of the Christian belief, really (though referring specifically to people of the land, as was mentioned by others earlier). I don't think the word is inherently a Jewish one, referring solely to non-Jews
Of course, since I don't know a great deal about ancient Greek (beyond my dictionary and concordance) I can only speculate further. My dictionary states all that you have said but adds "by implication, pagan".
Whatever the case, I guess the idea of this passage is that it is referring to people who were not Christians (regardless of what name it is translated as). Just a few thoughts to consider.
~ Regards, PA
P.S - welcome to UM, Karlis.
Of course, since I don't know a great deal about ancient Greek (beyond my dictionary and concordance) I can only speculate further. My dictionary states all that you have said but adds "by implication, pagan".
Whatever the case, I guess the idea of this passage is that it is referring to people who were not Christians (regardless of what name it is translated as). Just a few thoughts to consider.
~ Regards, PA
P.S - welcome to UM, Karlis.
QUOTE (norwood1026 @ Feb 1 2008, 05:06 PM)
Paganism is a HUGE umbrella for anything that does not fall under the Judeo-Christian concept .
Not all of the Pagan beliefs are earth based religions take for instance Buddhism yes it falls under the term Pagan but they do not believe in any Gods. Satanism too is not an earth based religion more so they are atheist then anything but for some reason I do not know of they to are classified under the Pagan umbrella.
The Pagans I know like to keep to themselves the only thing they we really do not agree with is when someone states that his/her religion is the one TRUE belife. I've never heard of a group of Pagans getting toghether for a religous cause or for a political cause which is something I'm very happy about because we've all seen what happens when one religion gets too much power.
Not all of the Pagan beliefs are earth based religions take for instance Buddhism yes it falls under the term Pagan but they do not believe in any Gods. Satanism too is not an earth based religion more so they are atheist then anything but for some reason I do not know of they to are classified under the Pagan umbrella.
The Pagans I know like to keep to themselves the only thing they we really do not agree with is when someone states that his/her religion is the one TRUE belife. I've never heard of a group of Pagans getting toghether for a religous cause or for a political cause which is something I'm very happy about because we've all seen what happens when one religion gets too much power.
Thats because they know they follow conjecture and supposition, mixed with superstition and a blend of many gods, some usually in idol form, who cant even help themselves, never mind us.
QUOTE (Ozi @ Feb 6 2008, 02:39 PM)
Thats because they know they follow conjecture and supposition, mixed with superstition and a blend of many gods, some usually in idol form, who cant even help themselves, never mind us.
This sounds like Xianity; belief in an imaginary guy named Jesus who no-one in his time heard of, other than the authors of his book, who really lived 300 years later. He was basically a blend of Mithras, Osiris, Attis, Wodin, etc., and his followers have statues. All they seem to help is themselves and to money, and lots of it. Very commercial: "Three Gods in One! Three Gods in One!" Rubbish.
QUOTE (Ozi @ Feb 6 2008, 07:39 PM)
Thats because they know they follow conjecture and supposition, mixed with superstition and a blend of many gods, some usually in idol form, who cant even help themselves, never mind us.
Welcome back so where this proof that your God is right only true God?
YOU said you had it I Know there are alot of people here who would like to see it besides me.
QUOTE (Ozi @ Feb 6 2008, 07:39 PM)
Thats because they know they follow conjecture and supposition, mixed with superstition and a blend of many gods, some usually in idol form, who cant even help themselves, never mind us.
And your religion isn't conjecture, supposition and superstition. You can not convince me Islam is the one true religion and your god is the one true god. Part of the reason believe in my religion is because I have seen my Gods. Have you seen yours? An idol is a representative of a God it is not the actual God. When I wash it and honor it I am not honoring a piece of clay I am honoring the the God or Goddess it represents. When you touch the black stone what are you touching and why do you touch it. Are you honoring your god or are you worshiping a black stone?
You do not understand my religion and if you don't like it you don't have to follow it as I don't have to follow yours.
I am in total agreement with night angle it's absulity right !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Blessed be
Blessed be
When I think "Pagan" polytheist comes to mind.
QUOTE (Darkwind @ Feb 6 2008, 02:28 PM)
And your religion isn't conjecture, supposition and superstition. You can not convince me Islam is the one true religion and your god is the one true god. Part of the reason believe in my religion is because I have seen my Gods. Have you seen yours? An idol is a representative of a God it is not the actual God. When I wash it and honor it I am not honoring a piece of clay I am honoring the the God or Goddess it represents. When you touch the black stone what are you touching and why do you touch it. Are you honoring your god or are you worshiping a black stone?
You do not understand my religion and if you don't like it you don't have to follow it as I don't have to follow yours.
You do not understand my religion and if you don't like it you don't have to follow it as I don't have to follow yours.
Yours sounds like a beautiful expression of faith...I believe it is a gift to see the various aspects of God in the world. Even if in a polytheistic way.
QUOTE (Stand Up And Shout @ Feb 7 2008, 04:34 AM)
When I think "Pagan" polytheist comes to mind.
Nooo LOL that would be YOU, cuz you are a prime example of someone that cant stick with the one kind of God
You will one day wind up changing gods as often as you change your ID's LMAO
QUOTE (norwood1026 @ Feb 1 2008, 06:06 PM)
Paganism is a HUGE umbrella for anything that does not fall under the Judeo-Christian concept .
Not all of the Pagan beliefs are earth based religions take for instance Buddhism yes it falls under the term Pagan but they do not believe in any Gods. Satanism too is not an earth based religion more so they are atheist then anything but for some reason I do not know of they to are classified under the Pagan umbrella.
The Pagans I know like to keep to themselves the only thing they we really do not agree with is when someone states that his/her religion is the one TRUE belife. I've never heard of a group of Pagans getting toghether for a religous cause or for a political cause which is something I'm very happy about because we've all seen what happens when one religion gets too much power.
Not all of the Pagan beliefs are earth based religions take for instance Buddhism yes it falls under the term Pagan but they do not believe in any Gods. Satanism too is not an earth based religion more so they are atheist then anything but for some reason I do not know of they to are classified under the Pagan umbrella.
The Pagans I know like to keep to themselves the only thing they we really do not agree with is when someone states that his/her religion is the one TRUE belife. I've never heard of a group of Pagans getting toghether for a religous cause or for a political cause which is something I'm very happy about because we've all seen what happens when one religion gets too much power.
I can garantue you that satanism is an earth based religion, its closely related to wicca and they believe nature is the greatest power. What do you think satanism is? could you elaborate your picture of it?
Atheists?
Pagan
People
Against
Goodness
And
Normalcy
People
Against
Goodness
And
Normalcy
QUOTE (Condescending @ Feb 7 2008, 05:00 AM)
I can garantue you that satanism is an earth based religion, its closely related to wicca and they believe nature is the greatest power. What do you think satanism is? could you elaborate your picture of it?
Atheists?
Atheists?
First of all Satanist do not worship any God/s They fall under the Pagan umbrella because they do not worship the Judeo-Christian God. They do now worship any deity that I know of. They are self-serving, Satanist hold children & animals in the highest regard because they believe that they hold the essence of life in them. What would you call people who do not believe in anyone or anything but themselves?
Below is a quote from Anton LaVey
"You cannot love everyone; it is ridiculous to think you can. If you love everyone and everything you lose your natural powers of selection and wind up being a pretty poor judge of character and quality. If anything is used too freely it loses its true meaning. Therefore, the Satanist believes you should love strongly and completely those who deserve your love, but never turn the other cheek to your enemy!" Anton LaVey
QUOTE (Tommyo @ Feb 7 2008, 05:12 AM)
Pagan
People
Against
Goodness
And
Normalcy
People
Against
Goodness
And
Normalcy
WOW! Thats one of the most stupid statement I've heard sence I've joined....
QUOTE (norwood1026 @ Feb 7 2008, 12:48 AM)
WOW! Thats one of the most stupid statement I've heard sence I've joined....
wow its from a Movie Dragnet with Dan Akroyd and Tom Hanks. Go watch it it was quite funny.
QUOTE (norwood1026 @ Feb 7 2008, 07:45 AM)
First of all Satanist do not worship any God/s They fall under the Pagan umbrella because they do not worship the Judeo-Christian God. They do now worship any deity that I know of. They are self-serving, Satanist hold children & animals in the highest regard because they believe that they hold the essence of life in them. What would you call people who do not believe in anyone or anything but themselves?
Below is a quote from Anton LaVey
"You cannot love everyone; it is ridiculous to think you can. If you love everyone and everything you lose your natural powers of selection and wind up being a pretty poor judge of character and quality. If anything is used too freely it loses its true meaning. Therefore, the Satanist believes you should love strongly and completely those who deserve your love, but never turn the other cheek to your enemy!" Anton LaVey
Below is a quote from Anton LaVey
"You cannot love everyone; it is ridiculous to think you can. If you love everyone and everything you lose your natural powers of selection and wind up being a pretty poor judge of character and quality. If anything is used too freely it loses its true meaning. Therefore, the Satanist believes you should love strongly and completely those who deserve your love, but never turn the other cheek to your enemy!" Anton LaVey
What you say is correct, they believe in being part of nature. They believe that protecting their bloodline and making sure it continues is of prime importance. They also belive that its possible to curse other people, they believe in their animal urges such as lust is there for a reason (not to be opressed). But anyways, calling satanism for atheism is like calling budhism for atheism something I would not agree with.
Maybe this article will shed some light:
I've read it before and I found it very interesting.
I've read it before and I found it very interesting.
QUOTE (Condescending @ Feb 7 2008, 06:59 AM)
What you say is correct, they believe in being part of nature. They believe that protecting their bloodline and making sure it continues is of prime importance. They also belive that its possible to curse other people, they believe in their animal urges such as lust is there for a reason (not to be opressed). But anyways, calling satanism for atheism is like calling budhism for atheism something I would not agree with.
No ones trying to get believe what you don't want to. If a group of people don not believe in any type of God I'd call that Athiesm but thats just me.
QUOTE (lost wisdom @ Feb 7 2008, 07:24 AM)
Maybe this article will shed some light:
I've read it before and I found it very interesting.
I've read it before and I found it very interesting.
This must be a night for first because that was the stupidest thing I've ever read.. well close to it.
I agree with that one, NW. The author must be running with the wrong crowd.
QUOTE (Tommyo @ Feb 7 2008, 05:12 AM)
Pagan
People
Against
Goodness
And
Normalcy
People
Against
Goodness
And
Normalcy
DUMB statement to make..and I dont give a toss if it was in a dozen movies..its still a dumb statement
QUOTE (norwood1026 @ Feb 7 2008, 05:48 PM)
WOW! Thats one of the most stupid statement I've heard sence I've joined....
QUOTE (Tommyo @ Feb 7 2008, 05:51 PM)
wow its from a Movie Dragnet with Dan Akroyd and Tom Hanks. Go watch it it was quite funny.
QUOTE (Beckys_Mom @ Feb 8 2008, 01:21 AM)
DUMB statement to make..and I dont give a toss if it was in a dozen movies..its still a dumb statement
I'm sure many of you would be familiar with the movie/series "Dragnet". The 1987 movie with Dan Akroyd and Tom Hanks followed a similar line to previous Dragnets. In this movie, the bad guys were an extremist group of anti-society hippies who called themselves "P.A.G.A.N.'s" - People Against Goodness and Normalcy. It was a funny movie, and I remember last time I watched it that I had to remember that quote to use somewhere on UM. I don't think the person who posted this remark bore any ill-will towards pagans. Watch the movie, the quote will make a lot more sense, I think.~ Regards, PA
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