Hypnotic Regression is unfairly represented. The most common safety net of a hard core debunker (not skeptic mind you) is that Hypnotic Regression is not proof of anything because there is potential for people undergoing it to be given suggestions & therefore anything they bring up in one of those sessions must be fantasy. This one sided argument against Hypnotic Regression dismisses or more likely overlooks that the doctors administering the Hypnotic Regression work by a guideline of rules & watch very carefully what they say to avoid the dangers of suggestion or implantation of ideas.
John E Mack & Donald Klein both explained the importance of listening & uncovering information from Hypnotic Regression Sessions rather than asking questions that contain answers e.g. Did you see Aliens?
The methodology of their questioning is done with great control & not to mention that they sometimes include control questions to catch out & find if a persons recollection is a possible confabulation.
Yes, Hypnotic Regression done by inexperienced or unqualified individuals with questions that lean heavily with suggestion are going to contaminate results. But Hypnotic Regression done by professionals who know how to obtain information from recollection without contaminating & making suggestions to their patient is legitimate. Hypnotic Regression is a tool not limited to UFOLOGY or branches of Past Life Regression through psychics. It is a tool used in trauma cases such as buried memories of child abuse or PTSD.
It is important to remember the whole picture when examining these facts, being skeptical is a good thing as I've said before, because skeptics ask the bests questions. But for one to debunk the whole area of hypnotic regression by saying it's all confabulation is very weak & blind sided. It also implies that the people who administer this type of treatment are nothing but witch doctors
Full Version: Hypnotic Regression unfairly represented
Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Extraterrestrial Life & The UFO Phenomenon
Alleged Alien Abductions: False Memories, Hypnosis, and Fantasy Proneness- Steven Jay Lynn; Irving I. Kirsch 1996
Of course, Lynn and Pezzo's (1994) findings do not imply that persons who report contact with aliens are faking, lying, or simulating their responses. At the very least, however, Lynn and Pezzo's data indicate that the elements of alien contact narratives are widely available to many college students and that sadomasochistic elements in such narratives may be elicited when cues are provided to construe mysterious events in terms of a UFO narrative. This raises the possibility that persons vulnerable to interpreting their experiences along lines scripted by an alien contact scenario may readily incorporate information, leading questions, and suggestions from a therapist into the narratives they construct. The dangers to clients who are victims of such leading psychotherapy procedures, used to ferret out a history of alien abduction, cannot be overstated.
The conclusions reached in this article demonstrate that the contamination of accounts can also come from the patient, regardless of how careful the practioner is (since he/she must lead the patient to the memory), many of the elements of the story are in wide cultural circulation.
The Satanic Cult flap was a good example of how this contamination can occur.
Of course, Lynn and Pezzo's (1994) findings do not imply that persons who report contact with aliens are faking, lying, or simulating their responses. At the very least, however, Lynn and Pezzo's data indicate that the elements of alien contact narratives are widely available to many college students and that sadomasochistic elements in such narratives may be elicited when cues are provided to construe mysterious events in terms of a UFO narrative. This raises the possibility that persons vulnerable to interpreting their experiences along lines scripted by an alien contact scenario may readily incorporate information, leading questions, and suggestions from a therapist into the narratives they construct. The dangers to clients who are victims of such leading psychotherapy procedures, used to ferret out a history of alien abduction, cannot be overstated.
The conclusions reached in this article demonstrate that the contamination of accounts can also come from the patient, regardless of how careful the practioner is (since he/she must lead the patient to the memory), many of the elements of the story are in wide cultural circulation.
The Satanic Cult flap was a good example of how this contamination can occur.
The conclusions reached in this article demonstrate that the contamination of accounts can also come from the patient, regardless of how careful the practioner is.
There was someone on TV once who took 6 people on a nature walk. They were told the helmets they wore were fitted with a camera so they can capture nature as the person saw it. Along the "Nature walk" they stumbled upon 2 MP's from the army who had roped off an area with yellow caution tape, and there was some metal debris and what appeared to be 2 body's covered in a sheet. This was set up as part of the experiment and not told to the 6 people. After returning at the end of the day they were asked about the walk. Then they were asked about what was up with the MP's. Even though their helmet cams captured exactly what each saw, and recorded audio too each persons account was WAY off from the actual encounter. This proves that people only see what they want to see regardless of what they actually saw. Mans brains are a complex machine that no super computer can compare to, but still we dont know how to fully control it. So if man is awake or asleep we only remember and see what we want to remember and see.
There was someone on TV once who took 6 people on a nature walk. They were told the helmets they wore were fitted with a camera so they can capture nature as the person saw it. Along the "Nature walk" they stumbled upon 2 MP's from the army who had roped off an area with yellow caution tape, and there was some metal debris and what appeared to be 2 body's covered in a sheet. This was set up as part of the experiment and not told to the 6 people. After returning at the end of the day they were asked about the walk. Then they were asked about what was up with the MP's. Even though their helmet cams captured exactly what each saw, and recorded audio too each persons account was WAY off from the actual encounter. This proves that people only see what they want to see regardless of what they actually saw. Mans brains are a complex machine that no super computer can compare to, but still we dont know how to fully control it. So if man is awake or asleep we only remember and see what we want to remember and see.
QUOTE (Evangium @ Feb 5 2008, 03:39 AM) 
Alleged Alien Abductions: False Memories, Hypnosis, and Fantasy Proneness- Steven Jay Lynn; Irving I. Kirsch 1996
Of course, Lynn and Pezzo's (1994) findings do not imply that persons who report contact with aliens are faking, lying, or simulating their responses. At the very least, however, Lynn and Pezzo's data indicate that the elements of alien contact narratives are widely available to many college students and that sadomasochistic elements in such narratives may be elicited when cues are provided to construe mysterious events in terms of a UFO narrative. This raises the possibility that persons vulnerable to interpreting their experiences along lines scripted by an alien contact scenario may readily incorporate information, leading questions, and suggestions from a therapist into the narratives they construct. The dangers to clients who are victims of such leading psychotherapy procedures, used to ferret out a history of alien abduction, cannot be overstated.
The conclusions reached in this article demonstrate that the contamination of accounts can also come from the patient, regardless of how careful the practioner is (since he/she must lead the patient to the memory), many of the elements of the story are in wide cultural circulation.
The Satanic Cult flap was a good example of how this contamination can occur.
Of course, Lynn and Pezzo's (1994) findings do not imply that persons who report contact with aliens are faking, lying, or simulating their responses. At the very least, however, Lynn and Pezzo's data indicate that the elements of alien contact narratives are widely available to many college students and that sadomasochistic elements in such narratives may be elicited when cues are provided to construe mysterious events in terms of a UFO narrative. This raises the possibility that persons vulnerable to interpreting their experiences along lines scripted by an alien contact scenario may readily incorporate information, leading questions, and suggestions from a therapist into the narratives they construct. The dangers to clients who are victims of such leading psychotherapy procedures, used to ferret out a history of alien abduction, cannot be overstated.
The conclusions reached in this article demonstrate that the contamination of accounts can also come from the patient, regardless of how careful the practioner is (since he/she must lead the patient to the memory), many of the elements of the story are in wide cultural circulation.
The Satanic Cult flap was a good example of how this contamination can occur.
That's definitely the case, there are people who are very prone to suggestibility, especially if they have a thorough prior knowledge or interest in the ufo phenomenon & abduction. That tainting comes from the patient as stated. A great amount of alien abductees though have had no prior interest or knowledge of ufos (in some cases completely skeptical about the subject & have never given it a second though), & have stumbled upon there memories when they were being treated by professional psychiatrists for possible childhood abuse trauma. Again there are measures in place & rules followed so that the patient with the experiences doesn't taint their memories before retrieval. Tainting can be caused by reading up on ufos, aliens, talking to others who have had alien experiences or sightings & watching movies specifically about alien abductions.
QUOTE (Evangium @ Feb 5 2008, 02:39 AM)
Alleged Alien Abductions: False Memories, Hypnosis, and Fantasy Proneness- Steven Jay Lynn; Irving I. Kirsch 1996
Of course, Lynn and Pezzo's (1994) findings do not imply that persons who report contact with aliens are faking, lying, or simulating their responses. At the very least, however, Lynn and Pezzo's data indicate that the elements of alien contact narratives are widely available to many college students and that sadomasochistic elements in such narratives may be elicited when cues are provided to construe mysterious events in terms of a UFO narrative. This raises the possibility that persons vulnerable to interpreting their experiences along lines scripted by an alien contact scenario may readily incorporate information, leading questions, and suggestions from a therapist into the narratives they construct. The dangers to clients who are victims of such leading psychotherapy procedures, used to ferret out a history of alien abduction, cannot be overstated.
The conclusions reached in this article demonstrate that the contamination of accounts can also come from the patient, regardless of how careful the practioner is (since he/she must lead the patient to the memory), many of the elements of the story are in wide cultural circulation.
The Satanic Cult flap was a good example of how this contamination can occur.
Of course, Lynn and Pezzo's (1994) findings do not imply that persons who report contact with aliens are faking, lying, or simulating their responses. At the very least, however, Lynn and Pezzo's data indicate that the elements of alien contact narratives are widely available to many college students and that sadomasochistic elements in such narratives may be elicited when cues are provided to construe mysterious events in terms of a UFO narrative. This raises the possibility that persons vulnerable to interpreting their experiences along lines scripted by an alien contact scenario may readily incorporate information, leading questions, and suggestions from a therapist into the narratives they construct. The dangers to clients who are victims of such leading psychotherapy procedures, used to ferret out a history of alien abduction, cannot be overstated.
The conclusions reached in this article demonstrate that the contamination of accounts can also come from the patient, regardless of how careful the practioner is (since he/she must lead the patient to the memory), many of the elements of the story are in wide cultural circulation.
The Satanic Cult flap was a good example of how this contamination can occur.
So what this is saying, is that the person was absolutely not abducted by aliens and have convinced themselves otherwise through pop culture and by the hypnotist. And by remembering such a nonsense story through hypnosis, they can only come to great harm. Is it just me or is that really just calling the person nuts and they need someone else to give them thoughts that are more correct? Who is really doing the leading here?
QUOTE (doesnt_matter @ Feb 5 2008, 08:43 PM)
So what this is saying, is that the person was absolutely not abducted by aliens and have convinced themselves otherwise through pop culture and by the hypnotist. And by remembering such a nonsense story through hypnosis, they can only come to great harm. Is it just me or is that really just calling the person nuts and they need someone else to give them thoughts that are more correct? Who is really doing the leading here?
Not neccessarily. I think it shows that hynosis is an altered state, where a person can remember experiences (ranging from the mundane to the fantastic) that may not have actually happened. Is the person crazy? Probably not.
The danger starts to come when the practioner frames the puzzling experiences in terms of an abduction narrative.
If alternative explanations of the experiences are not explored, the therapist risks legitimatising or providing ratification of the "abductee's" experience, which constitutes additional positive reinforcement.
This leads increasing commitment to the "abduction" explanation and increasing anxiety reduction associated with ambiguity reduction. The ultimate result is the client adopts the role of the "victim" or "abductee" and this is integrated into the psychotherapy and the client's view of self.
Which is where the skeptic starts to have problems with UFO abductees and hypnotic regression.
Supposing the "abduction" experience comes out as a result of routine therapy. The good therapist encourages alternative explanations of the experience, but the client chooses to pursue the abduction narrative (regardless of how true or false it is). Sooner or later the client will seek out a therapist who is willing to facillitate them and from there the abduction narrative develops to the point where the individual is regularly being visited by ET.
Thus the scenario is one where the client misleads themselves.
It's not a case of needing to be given thoughts that are more correct, but making sure that the client isn't using so called 'nonsense' to avoid actually confronting an actual emotionally traumatic event.
QUOTE
The danger starts to come when the practioner frames the puzzling experiences in terms of an abduction narrative.
If alternative explanations of the experiences are not explored, the therapist risks legitimatising or providing ratification of the "abductee's" experience, which constitutes additional positive reinforcement.
If alternative explanations of the experiences are not explored, the therapist risks legitimatising or providing ratification of the "abductee's" experience, which constitutes additional positive reinforcement.
But in the previous post you stated that the client may have already framed the "experience" thusly. That the client may have been contaminated by other sources prior to hypnotic regression. So they should go to a trained pyscotherapist who explores other possibilities first? I agree.
QUOTE
This leads increasing commitment to the "abduction" explanation and increasing anxiety reduction associated with ambiguity reduction. The ultimate result is the client adopts the role of the "victim" or "abductee" and this is integrated into the psychotherapy and the client's view of self.
What if they were though? Thats my point. It's based on the premise that aliens abducting people is imaginary.
QUOTE
Which is where the skeptic starts to have problems with UFO abductees and hypnotic regression.
Because they already don't believe it to begin with. Of course they would have a problem with it.
QUOTE
Supossing the "abduction" experience comes out as a result of routine therapy. The good therapist encourages alternative explanations of the experience, but the client chooses to pursue the abduction narrative (regardless of how true or false it is).
If so, then they are crazy or confused and need thoughts that are more accurate to reality, because aliens arent abducting people. Thats what this implies.
QUOTE
Sooner or later the client will seek out a therapist who is willing to facillitate them
They are looking for help to a problem. They will seek out those that will deal with the problem. If you broke your arm and you went to a doctor and he told you the pain was real, but it wasn't a broken arm, it was your leg, how much help can that doctor be to you? A bad example but perhaps attributable to people that believe they were abducted by "aliens".
QUOTE
and from there the abduction narrative develops to the point where the individual is regularly being visited by ET.
Of course, because they weren't being visited regular prior to this because aliens don't abduct people to begin with. Once again its just an arguement that begins with the notion that people are not being abducted by "aliens'.
QUOTE
Thus the scenario is one where the client misleads themselves.
They reinforce the delusion that they were being abducted by "aliens" willingly by going to someone that believes them, which is wrong, because there are no aliens abducting people.
QUOTE
It's not a case of needing to be given thoughts that are more correct, but making sure that the client isn't using so called 'nonsense' to avoid actually confronting an actual emotionally traumatic event.
Which by "actual emotionally traumatic event' they mean, one that is real and not made up, like aliens abducting people.
I'm playing devils advocate here.I'm trying to point out that sometimes some people, even brilliant scientists are biased right off the bat about certain things. It is obvious that whoever wrote what you quoted earlier absolutely does not believe any of those people are abducted by aliens. Their desire to help them is legitemate, this I have no doubt.
By this post I am not implying that people are being abducted by aliens, I am merely pointing out an arguement that is accidentally biased against people that believe they were abducted by aliens. And by alienating those people, they will go to other people, perhaps less qualified, that will listen to them. That quote actually reinforces the likelyhood that the clients will seek out less qualified therapists.
Moot point. Unless we can raise quite a few humans in total cultural isolation, we can't truly rule out the prospect of cultural contamination in abduction narratives.
Remember, fireinthesky provided this example -
The Lynn/Kirsch article shows that the elements of the abduction narrative are widely available within our culture, thus the posibility of contamination must not be overlooked.
In a real theraputic enviroment, the argument isn't really biased against what the client believes. It's about helping the client to help themselves. So the onus is on the therapist to ensure that all posibilities are explored.
Again I refer to the satanic cult flap as an example of why the therapist must be careful not to lead the client
Geraldo and Recovered Memories
SRA Statistics
Regarding the statements about who is framing. It can be 2 scenarios-
1. The client frames the abduction narrative, which the therapist expands on thus further framing it, or
2. The client describes the scenario, which the therapist then frames into an abduction narrative.
Remember, fireinthesky provided this example -
QUOTE
A great amount of alien abductees though have had no prior interest or knowledge of ufos (in some cases completely skeptical about the subject & have never given it a second though), & have stumbled upon there memories when they were being treated by professional psychiatrists for possible childhood abuse trauma.
The Lynn/Kirsch article shows that the elements of the abduction narrative are widely available within our culture, thus the posibility of contamination must not be overlooked.
In a real theraputic enviroment, the argument isn't really biased against what the client believes. It's about helping the client to help themselves. So the onus is on the therapist to ensure that all posibilities are explored.
Again I refer to the satanic cult flap as an example of why the therapist must be careful not to lead the client
Geraldo and Recovered Memories
SRA Statistics
Regarding the statements about who is framing. It can be 2 scenarios-
1. The client frames the abduction narrative, which the therapist expands on thus further framing it, or
2. The client describes the scenario, which the therapist then frames into an abduction narrative.
I'm merely pointing out that that particular quote you used is biased itself, and that those people that they so worry about helping may be seeking other less professional help due to the therapists belief, which they inadvertantly apply to the clients care. In which case, this point is hardly moot.
The only way that hypnotic regression could be unfairly represented is if someone claimed that it actually worked.
QUOTE (the_UNKNOWN_DEAD @ Feb 6 2008, 02:59 AM)
The only way that hypnotic regression could be unfairly represented is if someone claimed that it actually worked.
Apparently the only time it works, is when the client is believed to have been abducted and ritually abused by satanic aliens multiple times, over several lifetimes.
Anything else is essentially 'them' keepin' da truth down and putting correct thoughts into a persons head...
QUOTE (Evangium @ Feb 5 2008, 11:37 AM)
Apparently the only time it works, is when the client is believed to have been abducted and ritually abused by satanic aliens multiple times, over several lifetimes.
Quite convenient, isn't it.
Wow, this has got to be the most responses I've ever gotten.
All responses are welcome :-)
All responses are welcome :-)
QUOTE (fireinthesky @ Feb 5 2008, 12:08 PM)
All responses are welcome :-)
How very refreshing that instead of attacking those who disagree with you, you welcome their comments. I (for one) appreciate that.
There are several posters on this board who could take some lessions in courtesy from you.
I thank you.
I'm currently studying to become a hypnotherapist. If I ever come across an alien abductee client that would be interesting and I'll let you know how that turns out.
cheers
cheers
QUOTE (darkbreed @ Feb 6 2008, 12:37 PM)
I'm currently studying to become a hypnotherapist. If I ever come across an alien abductee client that would be interesting and I'll let you know how that turns out.
cheers
cheers
If you don't mind my asking then, Darkbreed, what is your take on the argument within the thread, particularly with regard to helping the client in a manner which is ethical?
QUOTE (Evangium @ Feb 6 2008, 02:59 AM)
If you don't mind my asking then, Darkbreed, what is your take on the argument within the thread, particularly with regard to helping the client in a manner which is ethical?
I'm curious to know, where exactly one would learn hypno therapy that is not themselves a trained mental health professiona to begin withl. Isn't this dangerous in and of itself? I'm perplexed by this.
Doesn't Matter:
What? Is your question if I'm learning hypnotherapy from a qualified and certified professional? If so the answer is yes, I'm studying at Banyan Hypnosis Center and if I graduate I will get diplomas for and become a certified Master Hypnotist, certified National Guild of Hypnosis Hypnotherapist, certification for 5-Path Advanced Hypnotherapi and certification for 7th Path Self Hypnosis Teacher. http://www.hypnosiscenter.com/
It's a world renowned and quite serious and professional center for those interested in becoming certified hypnotherapists.
Evangium:
Of course you should help the client in an ethical way and do what you can for the client to get rid of the problems and traumas, that is the whole point of hypnotherapi. First you have to locate the problem, and try find out if it really is real or not, as people can create their own fantasies and live into it and make that a problem in their life - if the latter is the case you have to un-create that fantasy and make them realize that they created this problem for themselves for some reason - and you have to find that reason as well and find ways to help them with the original reason that made them create such a fantasy for themselves.
In cases of REAL abductions (if that even exists) I guess you would have to make the client understand that it is something that has happened in the past, it is not happening any more and he/she should not be in fear of this but rather look at it from perspective as something that has happened, so there is no need for any fears now in the present as it was something that happened in the past. And I would try to find out as much information about the incident as possible, as long the client would go along with that and say it's ok. When doing hypnotherapy you should always have the clients consent to what you are doing and trying to achieve so you don't make things worse, after all your job as a therapist is mainly to help and heal and find a solution to the clients problems.
What? Is your question if I'm learning hypnotherapy from a qualified and certified professional? If so the answer is yes, I'm studying at Banyan Hypnosis Center and if I graduate I will get diplomas for and become a certified Master Hypnotist, certified National Guild of Hypnosis Hypnotherapist, certification for 5-Path Advanced Hypnotherapi and certification for 7th Path Self Hypnosis Teacher. http://www.hypnosiscenter.com/
It's a world renowned and quite serious and professional center for those interested in becoming certified hypnotherapists.
Evangium:
Of course you should help the client in an ethical way and do what you can for the client to get rid of the problems and traumas, that is the whole point of hypnotherapi. First you have to locate the problem, and try find out if it really is real or not, as people can create their own fantasies and live into it and make that a problem in their life - if the latter is the case you have to un-create that fantasy and make them realize that they created this problem for themselves for some reason - and you have to find that reason as well and find ways to help them with the original reason that made them create such a fantasy for themselves.
In cases of REAL abductions (if that even exists) I guess you would have to make the client understand that it is something that has happened in the past, it is not happening any more and he/she should not be in fear of this but rather look at it from perspective as something that has happened, so there is no need for any fears now in the present as it was something that happened in the past. And I would try to find out as much information about the incident as possible, as long the client would go along with that and say it's ok. When doing hypnotherapy you should always have the clients consent to what you are doing and trying to achieve so you don't make things worse, after all your job as a therapist is mainly to help and heal and find a solution to the clients problems.
QUOTE (darkbreed @ Feb 6 2008, 10:46 PM)
Evangium:
Of course you should help the client in an ethical way and do what you can for the client to get rid of the problems and traumas, that is the whole point of hypnotherapi. First you have to locate the problem, and try find out if it really is real or not, as people can create their own fantasies and live into it and make that a problem in their life - if the latter is the case you have to un-create that fantasy and make them realize that they created this problem for themselves for some reason - and you have to find that reason as well and find ways to help them with the original reason that made them create such a fantasy for themselves.
In cases of REAL abductions (if that even exists) I guess you would have to make the client understand that it is something that has happened in the past, it is not happening any more and he/she should not be in fear of this but rather look at it from perspective as something that has happened, so there is no need for any fears now in the present as it was something that happened in the past. And I would try to find out as much information about the incident as possible, as long the client would go along with that and say it's ok. When doing hypnotherapy you should always have the clients consent to what you are doing and trying to achieve so you don't make things worse, after all your job as a therapist is mainly to help and heal and find a solution to the clients problems.
Of course you should help the client in an ethical way and do what you can for the client to get rid of the problems and traumas, that is the whole point of hypnotherapi. First you have to locate the problem, and try find out if it really is real or not, as people can create their own fantasies and live into it and make that a problem in their life - if the latter is the case you have to un-create that fantasy and make them realize that they created this problem for themselves for some reason - and you have to find that reason as well and find ways to help them with the original reason that made them create such a fantasy for themselves.
In cases of REAL abductions (if that even exists) I guess you would have to make the client understand that it is something that has happened in the past, it is not happening any more and he/she should not be in fear of this but rather look at it from perspective as something that has happened, so there is no need for any fears now in the present as it was something that happened in the past. And I would try to find out as much information about the incident as possible, as long the client would go along with that and say it's ok. When doing hypnotherapy you should always have the clients consent to what you are doing and trying to achieve so you don't make things worse, after all your job as a therapist is mainly to help and heal and find a solution to the clients problems.
Thank you for taking the time to reply, Darkbreed. I think your insight has provided the final word on the debate.
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