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skyeagle409
QUOTE (hazzard @ Apr 10 2008, 06:35 PM) *
And what makes you think that there is a "smoking gun" in the not yet released documents. There sure wasnt in the released ones, as we all hoped.


Some of the stuff that has been revealed.

Eventually, you, and other skeptics will find that I was right on the money all along in regards to ET visitation!!!

"It is just a matter of time!!!

QUOTE
[b]May 1, 1952; Davis-Monthan AFB, Arizona; 9:10 a.m.
Witnesses: Major Rudy Pestalozzi, an intelligence officer, and an airman

Features: Discs, coordinated flight, vehicle pacing.

Two shiny discs overtook a B-36 bomber and paced alongside, one close to the fuselage. The bomber crew crowded into the starboard blister aft of the wing and looked down at a slight angle to see the closest disc, which was lens- or double-disc-shaped and about 20-25 feet in diameter. After about 20 seconds, the objects peeled off at a sharp angle and sped away. The flight commander, startled by the experience, made an unscheduled landing at the base and the crew was interrogated at length by Major Pestalozzi, who happened to be the base UFO officer. (Hynek, 1977, pp. 109-112, 292-294; McDonald files, University of Arizona library; Project Blue Book files, National Archives.)

Aug. 13, 1960; Red Bluff, California; 11:50 p.m.
Witnesses: Officer Charles A. Carson, Officer Stanley Scott, California Highway Patrol; Tehama County sheriff's deputies; Air Force radar.

Features: Ellipse, body lights, red light beams sweeping ground, extraordinary maneuvers, radar contact, E-M effects on radio.

Officers Carson and Scott while on patrol observed a large object low in the sky directly ahead of them which they thought was an airliner about to crash. They stopped and leaped from the patrol car to get a position fix, but they heard no sound. When the object reached a position about 100-200 feet off the ground, it abruptly reversed direction and shot back up to about 500 feet and stopped. The officers saw the shape clearly illuminated by a surrounding glow. It was a silvery ellipse with red lights at each extremity. Between the two red lights about five white lights were appeared occasionally along the center of the object. "As we watched the object moved again and performed aerial feats that were actually unbelievable," Carson wrote in his official report of the incident.

"At this time we radioed Tehama County Sheriff's Office requesting that they contact local radar base," Carson continued. "The radar base confirmed the UFO - completely unidentified."

The officers talked with Deputies Fry and Montgomery of Tehama County, and the night jailer, all of whom had seen exactly what they had. The sighting lasted a little over two hours. (Hall, 1964, p. 61-62)

Apr. 24, 1964; Socorro, New Mexico; 5:45 p.m.
Witnesses: Lonnie Zamora, Socorro police officer; Deputy Sheriff James Luckie; Sgt. Sam Chavez, New Mexico State Police.

Features: Ellipse, small beings, leg-like imprints in ground, damage to foliage.

Attracted by an apparent explosion, Zamora drove off the highway onto rough roads to investigate. A white object was visible which he first thought was an overturned car, so he reported in to the dispatcher that he would be out of his car "checking the car down in the arroyo." Two small figures were standing near it.

As he got out of his car he heard two or three loud "thumps," like someone hammering or slamming a door. One of the beings turned and looked at him. Then they disappeared into the craft and it took off with a loud roar and blast of flames. Fearing an explosion, Zamora turned to run for cover, stumbled and fell. The object rose straight up, and once it cleared the ground the loud noise stopped. The object, a whitish ellipse with a red symbol-like marking on the side, flew away horizontally. It rose gradually until it disappeared in the distance over the mountains, just clearing Six Mile Canyon Mountain.

When Zamora called to report the incident, the dispatcher directed Sergeant M.S. Chavez of the State Police to the site as back-up. Zamora and Chavez noticed that the underbrush was burning in several places and Chavez spotted the "tracks."

Socorro Deputy Sheriff James Luckie arrived a few minutes after Chavez, and he also confirmed the imprints and the still-smoking foliage. Clearly visible in the sandy soil were four squarish imprints arranged in a trapezoidal pattern. Four burned areas were visible, three of them within the pattern of imprints. Several small, shallow circular indentations also were found; these are labelled "footprints" in the Air Force case file.

A Public Health Service scientist analyzed a patch of fused sand found at the site. The results of this analysis is absent from the official file. (The Air Force case file contains only one qualitative soil sample analysis dated 19 May 1964 that identifies "major elements" but gives no percentages.)

On April 25, Army Captain Richard T. Holder, Up-Range Commander of White Sands Proving Grounds, along with an FBI agent, D. Arthur Byrnes, Jr., from the Albuquerque office, arrived to investigate and take measurements at the site. (Holder, 1964; FBI, 1964)

Major William Connor from Kirtland AFB and Sgt. David Moody, who was in the area on TDY, investigated for Air Force Project Blue Book on April 26. (Connor, 1964) Dr. J. Allen Hynek conducted a follow-up investigation in person on August 15, 1964, finding strongly favorable character references for Zamora. (Hynek, 1964)

Writing in a classified Central Intelligence Agency publication Studies in Intelligence two years later, Hector Quintanilla, Air Force Chief of Project Blue Book at the time of the sighting, reported that the Socorro case remained "puzzling." With the help of many other agencies, he had conducted an exhaustive check of military activities looking for an explanation. He found none.

"There is no doubt," he reported, "that Lonnie Zamora saw an object which left quite an impression on him. There is also no question about Zamora's reliability. He is a serious police officer, a pillar of his church, and a man well versed in recognizing airborne vehicles in his area. He is puzzled by what he saw, and frankly, so are we. This is the best-documented case on record, and still we have been unable, in spite of thorough investigation, to find the vehicle or other stimulus that scared Zamora to the point of panic." (Quintanilla, 1966)


March 5, 1967; Minot AFB, North Dakota; time not reported:
Witnesses: Air Force security police and other base personnel.

Features: disc, radar visual sighting, flashing body lights, Hover acceleration.

Air Defense Command radar tracked an unidentified target descending over the Minuteman missile silos of the 91st Strategic Missile Wing. Base security teams saw a metallic, disc-shaped object ringed with bright flashing lights moving slowly, maneuvering, then stopping and hovering about 500 feet off the ground. After a while the object circled directly over the launch control facility. F-106 fighter-interceptors were scrambled to investigate. At that moment the UFO "climbed straight up and streaked away at incredible speed." (Fowler, 1981, p. 187)

Oct. 18, 1973; Mansfield, Ohio; 11:00 p.m.:
Witnesses: Capt. Lawrence J. Coyne and the crew of an Army Reserve UH-1H helicopter; separately located ground witnesses.

Features: Cigar-shaped metallic object with dome, body lights, light beam, apparent lifting force, apparent EM effects.

The helicopter was cruising at 90 knots at an altitude of 2,500 feet above sea level, over mixed woods and farmland en route from Columbus to Cleveland on a clear starry night. A red light was observed on the eastern horizon that appeared to be pacing the helicopter. A minute or so later one of the crew members warned the captain that the light appeared to be converging on the helicopter. Capt. Coyne took the controls from the copilot and began descending, at the same time contacting Mansfield approach control to request information on possible jet traffic; he knew there were F-100s based at Mansfield. Before Mansfield could answer, radio communications were lost.

Meanwhile the red light increased in intensity and appeared to be on a collision course at a very high rate of speed, so Coyne increased the rate of descent and dropped to about 1,700 feet. With the trees coming up fast and the unknown object apparently about to ram them, the crew members braced for the impact. Just as a collision appeared imminent, the light suddenly stopped and assumed a hovering relationship above and in front of the helicopter.

The object appeared solid, eclipsing the stars behind it. On it were a red light at the nose, a white light at the tail, and a distinctive green beam emanating from the lower part of the body. The green beam swung across the front of the helicopter, through the windshield, bathing the cockpit in intense green light. No turbulence was felt and the crew heard no sound from the object. After a few seconds, the object accelerated and moved off to the west, showing only the white "tail" light as it receded, and made a distinct 45 degree course change to the right, heading toward Lake Erie.

While the object was still visible, Coyne noted that the altimeter read 3,500 feet with a rate of climb of 1,000 feet per minute. Yet the collective (steering mechanism) was still in the full-down position set during his attempt to evade the object. Coyne regained control at an indicated altitude of 3,800 feet At that point the crew felt a slight "bump." Reviewing his instruments, Coyne noticed that the magnetic compass was rotating slowly, while the Radio Magnetic Indicator was functioning normally. He descended to the previously assigned cruise altitude of 2,500 feet and made radio contact with the Akron/Canton air traffic controllers. This time there was no problem with radio communications.

On the ground, the driver and passengers of a car saw two lights, one red and one green, moving together, coming down rapidly toward them. At first they thought it was a small plane flying low, but the red was too bright, especially compared to the green. They could discern no shape, and heard no sound. As the object approached the car from the right, its unusual qualities caused the driver to pull over and stop. They then became aware of a second group of lights, some of them flashing, approaching from behind them (the southwest) and heard a helicopter-like noise for the first time. The driver thought the two sets of lights were two helicopters about to crash. For a few seconds they watched from the open car windows as the red steady light and the helicopter converged, then some of the passengers got out to watch.

"The one object went over the top of the other one," they reported, "and then it stopped." They described the unidentified object as being "something like a blimp... The helicopter was smaller than the object." After the red-lighted object stopped, the green light flared up. "When we got out, everything was green. I saw that thing and the helicopter... It lit up everything green... It kind of looked like rays coming down." The witnesses agreed that the helicopter was green because of the light shining down from the object above it.

As they continued to watch, the helicopter with the other object above and slightly ahead of it moved in tandem from southwest to northeast. They reported this movement as a backward or zig-zag flight path of the object. Suddenly the green light went out and the object was gone. "When the light went out you couldn't see the object. And then the helicopter went northeast. Then we got back in the car and went on, and saw it [the helicopter] fly out over the lake."

A time-line analysis performed by Jennie Zeidman shows that the unidentified object was continuously in view of the helicopter crew for at least five minutes--possibly six. Both aircrew and ground witnesses testified that the object was precisely shaped and opaque, with distinct edges and no train or trail. That testimony, and the reported maneuvers, absolutely preclude the object's being a meteor. (Zeidman, 1979)

September 1, 1974; Langenburg, Saskatchewan, Canada; 11:00 a.m.
Witnesses: Farmer Edwin Fuhr, 36; Royal Canadian Mounted Police Constable Ron Morier, onsite investigator.

Features: Circular (hemispherical) objects, formation, coordinated flight, physical traces, E-M effects, animal reaction.

While Fuhr was driving a swather to harvest his rape crop, he noticed a metallic-appearing, dome-shaped object about 50 feet away and stopped to investigate. Walking to within 15 feet of it, Fuhr saw that it was spinning and swirling the grass beneath it. This frightened him and he backed away. Climbing back on the swather, he looked around and saw four more identical domes "like brushed stainless steel" arranged in a rough semi-circle, all hovering and spinning about a foot above the ground. Whether from fear or an E-M effect, Fuhr could not get the throttle and steering wheel of the swather to respond.

Nov. 9, 1978; Kuwait; time not reported:
Witnesses: Oil field technicians

Features: Disc with dome, flashing body lights, landing, E-M effects on pumping equipment and communications, photographs

Kuwait Oil Company employees reported a series of UFO sightings from November 9 to November 21, 1978, including alleged photographs in some cases. On November 9, at Gathering Centre No. 24, technicians saw a disc-like object with dome on top on the ground. This coincided with failure of the oil pumping station and interruption of communications. After about 7 minutes the object departed at a rapid speed. The Kuwait Institute for Scientific Research (KISR) conducted an investigation, but could not explain the sightings and considers its report "confidential." When the same or a similar UFO reappeared on November 21, a Kuwait Oil Company employee obtained "...a number of photographs of the object." These were examined by KISR, but their report has never been released. (Private communication from a scientist member of the Kuwait Institute for Scientific Research; Kuwait Times, Nov. 16, 18, 1978; Arab Times, Jan. 24, 1979)

March 4, 1988; Eastlake, Ohio; 8:35 p.m.:
Witnesses: Family, Coast Guard personnel, others separately

Features: Large elliptical object, light beams, sequentially flashing body lights, landing on ice-covered lake, effects on ice, satellite objects maneuvering around primary object.

Coast Guard personnel responding to citizen reports of unusual aerial activity over Lake Erie witnessed a large elliptical object hovering over the lake. A family driving home saw the object, drove down to the beach to investigate and got out of the car. In the bright moonlight they could see ice on the lake which could be heard cracking like claps of thunder.

A huge, gunmetal gray, football-shaped object hovered low above the lake, rocking back and forth. Blinding white light emanated from both ends. The object was silent. When it moved, swinging one end toward the shore and descending, the family became frightened, ran back to their car and fled. At home, they could still see the object from a window that faced the lake.

The object moved out over the ice and descended, with red and blue lights now flashing in sequence along its lower edge. The family called the Eastlake police to report a UFO. After several referrals to other agencies, with no one expressing much interest, someone suggested the Coast Guard.

Suddenly 5 or 6 bright yellow triangular objects shot out of the center of the large object and began darting around independently. Once they stopped and hovered point up around the parent object, then sped away to the north, turned east, then inland toward the Perry nuclear power plant. Independent witnesses observed this action. At this point the family called the Coast Guard which sent a team to investigate.

Seaman James Power and Petty Officer John Knaub arrived. They told the family that they had seen some lights over the lake from Fairport Harbor and thought they were flares. Maybe there were some fishermen trapped out on the ice. The family pointed out the main craft with some of the triangular objects still zipping around it. The men drove closer to the lake to investigate, accompanied by the husband and wife. At the lakefront all could hear the ice rumbling and roaring.

In their incident report later sent by teletype to the Coast Guard headquarters in Detroit, Michigan, the men were quoted as saying that "the ice was cracking and moving abnormal amounts as the object came closer to it."

Power and Knaub gave a running report to their base via the two-way radio in their Chevy Suburban. The window was down, and the husband and wife overheard them saying words to the effect, "Be advised the object appears to be landing on the lake...There are other objects moving around it. Be advised these smaller objects are going at high rates of speed. There are no engine noises and they are very, very low." They continued to watch for over an hour. The men were overheard saying such things to their base as, "You should be advised that the object is now shining lights all over the lake and it's turning different colors." The men had to yell to be heard on the radio because of the thunderous noise of the rumbling ice.

Suddenly the smaller triangles returned and one by one entered the side of the parent object as it seemed to land on the ice. The object then flashed a series of red, blue, and yellow lights, the light emanating from the end of the object turned from white to red, and the triangles re-emerged and hovered above it. The noise from the ice abruptly ceased, and the lights and triangles disappeared. When it was over the Coast Guard men drove away, "white-faced," according to the husband. (Evans, 1992; see also Coast Guard teletype report on incident)

May 25, 1995; Bovina, Texas; 10:30 a.m.:
Witnesses: Capt. Gene Tollefson, First Officer John J. Waller, America West Airlines Flight 564.

Features: Large silhouetted cigar-shaped object, pulsating lights along body, reported radar track.

An America West B-757 airliner was cruising at 39,000 feet near Bovina, Texas, en route from Tampa, Florida, to Las Vegas, Nevada. To their right and somewhat below their altitude, the crew saw a row of bright white lights which sequenced on and off from left to right. The co-pilot contacted the Albuquerque FAA Air Route Traffic Control Center while the sighting was in progress inquiring about possible military activities. Checks were made with military installations in the area, but no explanation could be found.

As the airliner proceeded westerly and the object began dropping behind, the crew observed it against a background of thunderclouds. When the background clouds pulsed with lightning, they could see the silhouette of a dark, wingless, elongated cigar-like object around the strobing lights. Though they did not know the object's exact distance, the pilot and co-pilot estimated it to be 300-400 feet long.

FAA radar at Albuquerque did not show the object. One of the air traffic controllers contacted the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD), which monitors North American air space by radar, and said that NORAD had confirmed an unidentified radar track in the vicinity. This later proved to be a small aircraft whose transponder was not working.

Next morning the controller said he checked with NORAD again. NORAD told him that they had tracked another, very unusual target in the same general area a short time later - something that at first was stationary, then accelerated rapidly and stopped abruptly, repeating this sequence several times. The bursts of speed were computed to be between 1,000 and 1,400 m.p.h. This report, based on the word of one air traffic controller, could not be independently confirmed. (W. Webb, 1996)

MANEUVERED MOTION AND "INTELLIGENT CONTROL:"
Following the nearly year-long 1952 UFO sighting wave in which there were repeated instances of jet interceptors chasing after UFOs that also showed on radar, the Central Intelligence Agency convened the so-called Robertson Panel to evaluate the data. Among the presentations made to the scientific panel was one by Dewey J. Fournet (USAF, Ret.) who had worked with scientific analysts conducting a rigorous motion analysis study of hardcore unexplained cases.

Edward J. Ruppelt, former Chief of the Air Force Project Blue Book investigation, later reported that the study was "very hot and very controversial...[it] was hot because it wasn't official and the reason it wasn't official was because it was so hot. It concluded that UFOs were interplanetary spaceships." (Ruppelt, 1956, pp. 285-286)

Air Force analysts had reached this conclusion before. Project Sign in 1948 had issued a Top Secret Estimate of the Situation drawing the same conclusion. (Hall, 1964, p. 110) But both times outside scientific consultants, on the basis of what were arguably superficial and excessively skeptical reviews, disputed the conclusion. (Hall, 1988, pp. 155-163)

Many of these jet interception cases included a sort of "cat-and-mouse" behavior on the part of the UFOs, pulling away from the pursuing jets and then slowing down until they caught up again. This behavior has been repeated throughout the history of UFOs, and is one of the many indicators of intelligence behind the phenomenon. Case after case can be cited of UFOs apparently playing interactive games with (a) military aircraft, and (cool.gif police cruisers.

Sept. 3, 1965; Damon, Texas; 11:00 p.m.
Witnesses: Deputy Sheriff Billy E. McCoy; Deputy Sheriff Robert W. Goode.

Features: Elongated structured object, body lights, brilliant illumination, cat-and-mouse interaction.

While on routine patrol duty, Goode and McCoy spotted a bright purple light on the horizon over the prairie to the southwest about five to six miles distant. They discussed several possible explanations for what they were seeing--lamps, an oil-drilling rig--but none of them seemed to fit. Suddenly without warning, a blue light--smaller in diameter--emerged from the purple light and moved to its right before stopping. Both lights remained in this orientation for a period of time before beginning to drift upwardly. This upward floating motion, as McCoy described it, continued until the objects reached a position 5 to 10 degrees above the horizon. Goode then looked at the lights through a pair of binoculars, but he could see no further details.

Their curiosity aroused, the officers began to look for back roads that might take them closer to the lights. Goode stopped near a pasture and once again used the binoculars to observe the objects through the open car window. This time, as the men watched, the lights suddenly swooped toward them at fantastic speed, covering the intervening distance in one to two seconds. The officers saw a solid object which abruptly stopped and hovered practically overhead. Its brilliant purple light illuminated them and the nearby ground. The purple and blue lights were attached to opposite ends of an enormous object, hovering about 150 feet from them over the pasture at a height of about 100 feet. In his subsequent statement to the Air Force, McCoy described what he saw:

"The bulk of the object was plainly visible at this time and appeared to be triangular shaped with a bright purple light on the left end and the smaller, less bright, blue light on the right end. The bulk of the object appeared to be dark gray in color with no other distinguishing features. It appeared to be about 200 feet wide and 40-50 feet thick in the middle, tapering off toward both ends. There was no noise or any trail. The bright purple light illuminated the ground directly underneath it and the area in front of it, including the highway and the interior of our patrol car. The tall grass under the object did not appear to be disturbed. There was a bright moon out and it cast a shadow of the object on the ground immediately below it in the grass."

The object seemed to be "...as big as a football field." Goode could feel heat from the object through his shirt-sleeved left arm. Frightened by the strange object looming overhead, the officers "...put the car in motion and headed toward Damon as fast as we could go" at speeds of up to 110 miles per hour. McCoy kept watch out the rear window of the car, monitoring the object's actions. After 10 to 15 seconds, the UFO abruptly shot back in the direction from which it had come. "After arriving at approximately its original position," McCoy observed, "it went straight up in the air and disappeared at 25-30 degrees above the horizon."

After they calmed down, McCoy and Goode decided to return to the area and attempt to identify the mysterious object. Back on Highway 36 near the area where they had first seen the lights, they again spied the purple light on the horizon. Once again the smaller blue light moved out from it with a strange two-step motion and the lights floated upward. Frightened by the possibility of another unwelcome close encounter, they again fled.

The deputies reported the sighting to Ellington Air Force Base, and Major Laurence Leach, Jr., arrived on September 8 to interview McCoy and Goode and take a statement. Leach, in his report to Project Blue Book headquarters at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, indicated that he was puzzled after interviewing the two men. "[T]here is," he wrote, "no doubt in my mind that they definitely saw some unusual object or phenomenon.

Both officers appeared to be intelligent, mature, level-headed persons capable of sound judgment and reasoning." The Air Force ultimately characterized the sighting as unexplained. (Project Blue Book files, National Archives; McCoy statement, Brazoria County Sheriff's Department, Sept. 8, 1965; "Ellington [AFB] Probes UFO Seen by Local Deputies," Brazosport Facts, Sept. 6, 1965; Rhonda Moran, "The Night of the UFO," Brazosport Facts, Sept. 13, 1995.)

April 17, 1966; Ravenna, Ohio; dawn
Witnesses: Dale Spaur and Wilbur Neff, deputy sheriffs; police officers in several other jurisdictions

Features: Structured disc-like object with brilliant light beam to ground, cat-and-mouse chase across state line

Portage County Deputy Sheriffs Spaur and Neff were investigating an abandoned car when they were confronted by a glowing disc-like object that rose up out of the woods and stopped overhead, illuminating them and the surroundings. The object was making a humming sound. After conferring with the dispatcher, they chased the object into Pennsylvania. Along the route other police officers, hearing the radio chatter about something strange headed their way, then joined in the chase as the UFO sped by, followed by the Portage County sheriff's car in hot pursuit.

The object seemed to play a cat-and-mouse game with Spaur and Neff, speeding up and then slowing down until they could catch up again. At the conclusion of the sighting the object moved off into the distance and hovered motionless for a while. Finally it shot straight up out of sight disappearing among the background stars. (Weitzel, 1966; Clark, 1998, pp. 450-465)
merril
Nothing deep here. But, IMO, the brevity of civilzations and their means; the distance between habitable stars, and the unknow history of unknown planets; or, even something more unknowable- like another habitable universe; all leads me to view Earth in simple contemporary ways. As some isolated location where Nature is producing creatures who read and write, and are products of the great forces of Nature.

There are some things that just are figmants of our imagination, though.

It would not surprise me if Superpowers toyed with UFO stories to cover up missile tests, or examination of enemy defenses or radar, or whatever.

The other UFO alien type-object stories were popular fiction gone awry, or campfire lore, or worse.

I have wondered, though, if cosmic rays bombard our brains or optic nerves, or if mirages exist some places in this world- some kind of odd lights.

Just my opinions and discounting of any evidence of ET visiting Earth.


skyeagle409
QUOTE (merril @ Apr 11 2008, 06:34 AM) *
There are some things that just are figmants of our imagination, though.


The UFOs in question are those of reality. Aircrews have been killed trying to intercept UFOs.

QUOTE
It would not surprise me if Superpowers toyed with UFO stories to cover up missile tests, or examination of enemy defenses or radar, or whatever.


Considering that UFOs have dismantled our nukes, I don't think so!

QUOTE
The other UFO alien type-object stories were popular fiction gone awry, or campfire lore, or worse.


What happened over Washington D.C. in 1952, was nothing on par with science fiction; it was reality!

If you don't believe me, go to your local library and pull 1952 editions of LIFE magazine and others to obtain information as to what transpired over our nation's capital and attempts by Air Force F-94 Starfires to intercept those UFOs as radar controllers, commercial aircrews,a nd even military ground personnel watched the action, not to mention the government's own NR-12 aircraft, which also encountered those UFOs. That aircraft was flown by the CAA, now known as the FAA.

An Air Force F-94's became surrounded by the UFOs as the radar controllers confirmed their positions on their own radar screens and the frightened pilot asking ground controllers what to do and you can best-believe that he wasn't surrounded by weather balloons either.
skyeagle409
QUOTE

Project Blue Book
Kirtland AFB, New Mexico

"A radar operator reported an erratic blip that seemed to indicate a plane descending at a dangerously steep angle. Visual sightings described it as a greenish coloured object " the shape of an automobile on end" that hovered above the end of the runway at a height of about two or three hundred feet. Radar operators as well as eye witnesses then observed the object "ascend abruptly at an estimated rate climb of 4,500 feet per minute", before it disappeared off the radar screens."

However this was not the end of the incident. Twenty minutes later the object reappeared and began to follow a C-46 aircraft for approximately 14 miles. According to one radar operator: "Then the object turned north to hover over the outer marker for approximately one and a half minutes and then faded from scope. Total duration of radar sighting: 20 minutes[ as opposed to the 4 to 5 minute visual sighting].


Just another weather balloon, or perhaps, Venus. Both like to follow and maneuver around aircraft at jet speeds.
Evangium
QUOTE (skyeagle409 @ Apr 11 2008, 03:20 PM) *
We have more data on the existence of UFOs than we have on Pluto, so what's the point?!

Pluto. It's existence. Your argument point ('prove to me it exists'). Ironically, the very techniques that enabled us to discover it in the first place (that you're so fond of using in your 'educating' the skeptics argument) have found something slightly larger than Earth and significantly smaller than a gas giant (until recently that was the smallest exo planets we could detect). Further to the irony is that this very methods which produced the proof, that you're so fond of using in your debunking argument, will be the same methods which are most likely to find an Earth-sized or even life supporting planet.
Which will still be more conclusive than 100, 000 seperate, documented anomolies.

QUOTE
With over 100,000 case files, documents, data evidence, and physical trace evidence, I don't think so!!

And yet even the UFO researchers tend to raise the quetion as to how few of them are actually 'good, solid' cases.

QUOTE
Let's take a real look at what is going on here. You accept an artist conception as proof of a planet that no one has seen with their naked eyes, yet you dismiss viable data evidence, offical government documents, credible witness testimony whose accounts were backed by a number of electronic surveillance means, physical trace evidence along with photos and radar trackings that prove the existence and reality of flying saucers.

Please do tell, exactly what do we have that proves (conclusively) that of all those anomalous occurances, at least even one of them has been proven, to a reasonable standard of proof, to be a confirmed extraterrestrial spaceship piloted by an advanced extraterrestial species?
Or tell us what methods and techniques we possess to seek out and locate where these ET UFOs are coming from or where they will appear.

QUOTE
What I see here, is the same mindset of those who'd claimed that a weather balloon was responsible for the Roswell incident and what was their evidence that it was a weather balloon in the first place?! I told the skeptics why no weather balloon was involved, but they stuck to their own undeniable evidence and in 1994, their evidence became history when the Air Force adimitted that no weather balloon was involved after all.

Is it any wonder that when the facts are eventually revealed, there are those who find themselves on the wrong side of the fence?!

*Sigh* I know I really shouldn't, but what the hey.....

Like so many others have said over the years (be it you and UFO coverups, you and Noah's ark or you and the WTC) what facts? When will they be rolled out? Heck, if you know the mindset so well why do you bother coming back for more(and no you don't know the mindset that well at all if you can only distinguish two types of people on this board)?
And, in all honesty, you didn't show the skeptics anything that wasn't already out there. Did you ever wonder why 'Crash at Corona, 2nd ed.' was published in '94?
QUOTE

ALTERNATIVE EXPLANATIONS FOR THE WRECKAGE
WEATHER BALLOON
This was the original cover story created by the brass at Fort
Worth Army Air Field and is still repeated, despite its inability
to account for the reported characteristics of the recovered
materials. A rawinsonde balloon carries a flimsy, hexagonal,
foil-and-wood, kitelike contraption intended to reflect radar
and thus make it easier to track the balloon.
But what was found on the Foster ranch was 100-percent unfamiliar
materials having particularly impressive physical qualities.
There was no rubberized balloon fabric, no aluminized
mylar, no wooden sticks, no labels identifying it as the property
of the U.S. Weather Bureau or some military weather service. It
was just superlight, superstrong pieces of thin skin, of slender I
beams, of parchmentlike substance, and of black plastic.
To make this explanation worth considering seriously, one
would have to accept that Mac Brazel was unable to recognize
ordinary weather-balloon materials. Yet he stated that he knew
what such balloons looked like, had recovered more than one,
and was certain this was not such a device. He was not a
stupid man, nor was Maj. Jesse Marcel or others who saw the
wreckage at the crash site, or soon afterward when the first
loads were brought to Roswell Army Air Field. If Major Marcel
had been so naive that he failed to identify pieces of a simple,
common weather balloon's reflector that was hardly worth a
hurried trip to a remote sheep ranch on a Sunday afternoon,
would he have been promoted shortly thereafter and given a
much more important and sensitive job?

And as I've mentioned before, back in 1980 Berlitz and Moore were saying that it wasn't a rawinide device as well... So what is your point exactly? You found the 'evidence' that proves it wasn't a Rawin/Mogul device, despite the fact that the argument put forward by Friedman, Berliner, Berlitz and Moore doesn't need that evidence to prove itself?
The only argument you've ever put the unbelievers in their place were those 'truth seekers' who deny that 9/11 attacks on the WTC happened just like we saw them (and even then I have my doubts if it was actually you, or someone using your screen name).
See the whole problem, Aubrey is that you refuse to believe (or even consider) anybody elses POV when it conflicts with your own. Yet despite the fact that you clearly understand what it means to have an unyielding set of beliefs in yourself, you just don't seem to get that you can't force your beliefs on others.
In summary, I'll believe your beliefs, when you believe mine. Until then, your just going to have to accept that the ETH explanation for UFOs is a belief system and, as of this point in time has no scientific method to accurately study it....
hazzard
QUOTE (merril @ Apr 11 2008, 07:34 AM) *
Nothing deep here. But, IMO, the brevity of civilzations and their means; the distance between habitable stars, and the unknow history of unknown planets; or, even something more unknowable- like another habitable universe; all leads me to view Earth in simple contemporary ways. As some isolated location where Nature is producing creatures who read and write, and are products of the great forces of Nature.

There are some things that just are figmants of our imagination, though.

It would not surprise me if Superpowers toyed with UFO stories to cover up missile tests, or examination of enemy defenses or radar, or whatever.

The other UFO alien type-object stories were popular fiction gone awry, or campfire lore, or worse.

I have wondered, though, if cosmic rays bombard our brains or optic nerves, or if mirages exist some places in this world- some kind of odd lights.

Just my opinions and discounting of any evidence of ET visiting Earth.


I agree. At this point we simply just dont know. There are of course people all over the world that say that there is proof of the ETH, that exraterrestrials have come here. This is obviously a mis-interpretation of the definition of the term "proof" as it is defined by the scientific method. I respectfully contend that the necessary skills to arrive at the conclusions the believers propose involve imagination and wishful thinking, assumption, belief and emotions more than anything else.

Skyeagel, you realize that the cause of the majority of accidents involving aircraft is not determined with any scientific certainty? Pilot in commands failure to maintain directional control of the aircraft, or, Pilots inadvertent flight into Instrument Meteorologic Conditions are the primary causes of most accidents.

Not once has there been said that an aircraft was shot down by an alien spaceship.(!)

The data you refer to, if it can be verified as being actual, proves nothing.
It does however lead to an hypothesis. You are travel in circles, insiting that hypothesis is proof.

It is not.
skyeagle409
QUOTE (Evangium @ Apr 11 2008, 09:12 AM) *
Pluto. It's existence. Your argument point ('prove to me it exists'). Ironically, the very techniques that enabled us to discover it in the first place (that you're so fond of using in your 'educating' the skeptics argument) have found something slightly larger than Earth and significantly smaller than a gas giant (until recently that was the smallest exo planets we could detect). Further to the irony is that this very methods which produced the proof, that you're so fond of using in your debunking argument, will be the same methods which are most likely to find an Earth-sized or even life supporting planet. Which will still be more conclusive than 100, 000 seperate, documented anomolies.


I don't think so!!!

At least we have documented and have the kind of data evidence on UFOs that we don't on those planets. We have never detected nor tracked them with airborne and ground-based radars, ELINT systems or even photograhed at closed range, but we have for saucer-shaped metallic UFOs that have been seen with the naked eyes of millions of people throughout the centuries, but no those planets you spoke of.

QUOTE
And yet even the UFO researchers tend to raise the quetion as to how few of them are actually 'good, solid' cases.


The few good cases are the reason why there are now countries around the globe admitting that they are those of intelligently control and I expect the number of countries to admit that that UFOs are those under intelligent control, to grow, and remember, it only takes just one authentic case and it is case-closed and there are over 100,000 case files that remain unexplained.
skyeagle409
QUOTE (Evangium @ Apr 11 2008, 09:12 AM) *
Please do tell, exactly what do we have that proves (conclusively) that of all those anomalous occurances, at least even one of them has been proven, to a reasonable standard of proof, to be a confirmed extraterrestrial spaceship piloted by an advanced extraterrestial species?


As mentioned before, the case files I already mentioned. All it takes is to understand why there are military, government and intelligence offiicials, commecial and military aircrews and many credible people around the globe as stating that the UFOs in question are not ours.

It is really very simple and the answer as to whether we are along or not in the universe, has already been answered. In regards to what I have just posted, understanding what the data evidence depicts. Not understanding what the data evidence depicts, is why there are skeptics claiming there is no evidence and I told them there is, but they don't believe me any more than they did when I told them that no weather balloon nor a Mogul balloon was involved in the Roswell incident, so they had to learn the hard way how wrong they were.

QUOTE
Or tell us what methods and techniques we possess to seek out and locate where these ET UFOs are coming from or where they will appear.


There are a number of methods used. In fact, there are more methods used to detect and track UFOs than we have for tracking a B-747.


QUOTE
*Sigh* I know I really shouldn't, but what the hey.....



QUOTE

Space Surveillance

Phased-array radars, conventional radars, DSP satellites, and the Ground-Based Electro-Optical Deep Space Surveillance System (GEODSS).


Is any any wonder then, that it has been revealed over the years that NORAD has been tracking UFOs in space and within the earth's atmosphere?


QUOTE
Like so many others have said over the years (be it you and UFO coverups, you and Noah's ark or you and the WTC) what facts?


In regards, to them, not people are aware of government photographs around that mountain, and I have posted facts as to why no explosives were used to bring down the WTC. There were those who had no idea why thermite evidence was found in the remains that had nothing to do with explosives and they didn't listen any more than the weather balloon proponents.

There were aluminum from the aircraft and the structure of the buildings that came together under high tempertures. Perhaps, they forgot that over 1000 pounds of explosives failed to bring down one of the buildings in the early 1990's.

Simple facts that some folks ignore who are the same par as those who are claiming there is no evidence of ET visitation when the evidence is sitting right before their eyes.

QUOTE
And, in all honesty, you didn't show the skeptics anything that wasn't already out there. Did you ever wonder why 'Crash at Corona, 2nd ed.' was published in '94?


Ever wondered why I told the skeptics prior to 1994 why there were no weather balloon involved in the Roswell incident? I am very sure that Stanton Friedman didn't contact Jesse Marcel in 1994. I don't know what you think Berlitz and Moore had to do with what I was telling the skeptics about a non-existent weather balloon when they were saying that is was a weather balloon all along and in 1967, Look magazine posted the photo of a RAWIN device in Ramey's offices?!

QUOTE
And as I've mentioned before, back in 1980 Berlitz and Moore were saying that it wasn't a rawinide device as well...


That is what I have been saying all along! Only the Roswell skeptics believed it and in 1994, the Air Force handed them their "weather balloon pink slip." In other words, their so-called evidence they have been slamming me with that it was, is now history.

QUOTE
You found the 'evidence' that proves it wasn't a Rawin/Mogul device, despite the fact that the argument put forward by Friedman, Berliner, Berlitz and Moore doesn't need that evidence to prove itself?


Not only that, but experiments and analysis of the amount of material needed to create the size of the crash site as reported, supported my claim when there were still UFOlogist thinking that a Mogul balloon flight took place on June 4, 1947, and now, they are finding out that no such flight occurred after I had already came to that conclusion.

QUOTE
The only argument you've ever put the unbelievers in their place were those 'truth seekers' who deny that 9/11 attacks on the WTC happened just like we saw them (and even then I have my doubts if it was actually you, or someone using your screen name).


LOL!!!

If you had done further checking, you would have found where I also set them in their place with the discovery of the gorilla, the Iranian UFO incident, the Belgian UFO incident where they claimed that the UFO was an F-117 or another secret aircraft, and many others. I noticed that you didn't mentioned Tim Printy, Bob Carroll, Joe Nickell, CSICOP, Access-Denied, Scientific Federation of American Scientist, where I corrected them on the performance of the F-15 Eagle, and many other skeptics who were proven wrong after the facts were revealed to them.

Perhaps, if you go to the old CNN UFO message board, you will have found where I also set a well-known person in his place in regards to the Iranian UFO incident. Apparently, he didn't know that I knew much more about aircraft than he thought, which is how I determined that he was trying to dupe those on that message board. Additionally, you will also find that I set the anti-Americans straight on depleted uranium used by our military forces.

Also, find where I predicted the 2nd Iraqi war after we had gone into Afghanistan.


QUOTE
See the whole problem, Aubrey is that you refuse to believe (or even consider) anybody elses POV when it conflicts with your own.


The real problem is that the skeptics learn from history and they don't understand the nature of the data evidence. That is why they tend to find themselves on the wrong side of the fence when the facts are eventually revealed and what you want me to do is to jump on that side of the fence that has been known to get it all wrong.

QUOTE
Until then, your just going to have to accept that the ETH explanation for UFOs is a belief system and, as of this point in time has no scientific method to accurately study it....


I might add that some of those who are saying that the UFOs are not ours, are SCIENTIST! You see, you are not doing your homework as you should.
skyeagle409
QUOTE (hazzard @ Apr 11 2008, 01:31 PM) *
I agree. At this point we simply just dont know. There are of course people all over the world that say that there is proof of the ETH, that exraterrestrials have come here. This is obviously a mis-interpretation of the definition of the term "proof" as it is defined by the scientific method. I respectfully contend that the necessary skills to arrive at the conclusions the believers propose involve imagination and wishful thinking, assumption, belief and emotions more than anything else.


Having what I experienced in 1968, the experiences of my military compatriots, one of whom was my assistant manager on an Air Force contract, and now knowing what I now know, I can safely say that the evidence is right before everyone's eyes and always has been, hence my prediction that official revelation will come well within your life time.

Skyeagel, you realize that the cause of the majority of accidents involving aircraft is not determined with any scientific certainty? Pilot in commands failure to maintain directional control of the aircraft, or, Pilots inadvertent flight into Instrument Meteorologic Conditions are the primary causes of most accidents. Not once has there been said that an aircraft was shot down by an alien spaceship.(!)

I never said that they were shot down by ET, only that we have lost aircrews after they were scrambled to intercept the UFOs and here are two well-known cases i

QUOTE

Kinross AFB / F-89 Disappearance
November 23, 1953

http://www.nicap.org/reports/kinross.htm


Thomas Mantell

http://www.ufocasebook.com/Mantell.html


I won't even mention the loses of foreign pilots.

QUOTE
The data you refer to, if it can be verified as being actual, proves nothing.


Actually, it does and one reason why military officials and other experts have been saying all along that they are not ours.

Apparently, reality is not on the side of the skeptics in this respect, as facts are now revealing.
skyeagle409
QUOTE (Evangium @ Apr 11 2008, 09:12 AM) *



You posted the following:

QUOTE

ALTERNATIVE EXPLANATIONS FOR THE WRECKAGE
WEATHER BALLOON
This was the original cover story created by the brass at Fort
Worth Army Air Field and is still repeated, despite its inability
to account for the reported characteristics of the recovered
materials. A rawinsonde balloon carries a flimsy, hexagonal,
foil-and-wood, kitelike contraption intended to reflect radar
and thus make it easier to track the balloon.
But what was found on the Foster ranch was 100-percent unfamiliar
materials having particularly impressive physical qualities.
There was no rubberized balloon fabric, no aluminized
mylar, no wooden sticks, no labels identifying it as the property
of the U.S. Weather Bureau or some military weather service. It
was just superlight, superstrong pieces of thin skin, of slender I
beams, of parchmentlike substance, and of black plastic.
To make this explanation worth considering seriously, one
would have to accept that Mac Brazel was unable to recognize
ordinary weather-balloon materials. Yet he stated that he knew
what such balloons looked like, had recovered more than one,
and was certain this was not such a device. He was not a
stupid man, nor was Maj. Jesse Marcel or others who saw the
wreckage at the crash site, or soon afterward when the first
loads were brought to Roswell Army Air Field. If Major Marcel
had been so naive that he failed to identify pieces of a simple,
common weather balloon's reflector that was hardly worth a
hurried trip to a remote sheep ranch on a Sunday afternoon,
would he have been promoted shortly thereafter and given a
much more important and sensitive job?


But,I posted just the other day, a photo of a rawin device in Ramey's office that was taken in 1947 and posted by LOOK magazine in 1967. So it was already well-known decades before Berliner and Moore published anything on Roswell, that what was depicted in the photos in 1947 was a rawin device.

An eagle-eyed skeptic noted the remains of a rawin device in the photos and why I told them it had nothing to do with the Roswell incident.

Since you like to roam around looking for things on me, find what very famous person on the old CNN board, that I set straight on the Iranian UFO incident in regards to the avionics of the F-4 Phantom?
GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN
QUOTE (skyeagle409 @ Apr 11 2008, 05:28 PM) *
But,I posted just the other day, a photo of a rawin device in Ramey's office that was taken in 1947 and posted by LOOK magazine in 1967. So it was already well-known decades before Berliner and Moore published anything on Roswell, that what was depicted in the photos in 1947 was a rawin device.

An eagle-eyed skeptic noted the remains of a rawin device in the photos and why I told them it had nothing to do with the Roswell incident.

Since you like to roam around looking for things on me, find what very famous person on the old CNN board, that I set straight on the Iranian UFO incident in regards to the avionics of the F-4 Phantom?


Skyeagle, I hope this isn't a personal question, and I am certainly not questioing your experience, but what did happen to you that made you believe in the paranormal, ufos and aliens, hazzard has mentioned it, before and so have you, but what happened?

Thanks, GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN
Bella-Angelique
QUOTE (skyeagle409 @ Apr 11 2008, 11:58 AM) *
I won't even mention the loses of foreign pilots.


I do think that if the Russians thought we had killed all those people we would have heard a lot about it from them.
I do not think they considered them ours at all, thankfully.
hazzard
QUOTE (GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN @ Apr 11 2008, 07:13 PM) *
Skyeagle, I hope this isn't a personal question, and I am certainly not questioing your experience, but what did happen to you that made you believe in the paranormal, ufos and aliens, hazzard has mentioned it, before and so have you, but what happened?


Like I said before ....Something happened to Skyeagle...

My original implication was based upon the idea that an alien civilization would have to know we were here in order to visit us. There is no way theyd know for sure unless they received our radio transmissions.(!?) That was the point.

If a civilization 80 LY away received our TV signals today, and immediately set out to come here, and had the ability to travel at a significant fraction of the speed of light it would take them until 2087 to arrive here...

It would also take them that long to arrive here based on observations from their home world.

In the end it all comes down to---How did they know were we are...?
anarkhy
QUOTE (skyeagle409 @ Apr 11 2008, 01:28 PM) *
But,I posted just the other day, a photo of a rawin device in Ramey's office that was taken in 1947 and posted by LOOK magazine in 1967. So it was already well-known decades before Berliner and Moore published anything on Roswell, that what was depicted in the photos in 1947 was a rawin device.

An eagle-eyed skeptic noted the remains of a rawin device in the photos and why I told them it had nothing to do with the Roswell incident.

Since you like to roam around looking for things on me, find what very famous person on the old CNN board, that I set straight on the Iranian UFO incident in regards to the avionics of the F-4 Phantom?




How the FOI works? When we will see the archives of modern ufo sightings, i mean, not things from 1947 but those encounters occurred in 1970 until today?




GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN
QUOTE (hazzard @ Apr 12 2008, 12:44 AM) *
Like I said before ....Something happened to Skyeagle...

My original implication was based upon the idea that an alien civilization would have to know we were here in order to visit us. There is no way theyd know for sure unless they received our radio transmissions.(!?) That was the point.

If a civilization 80 LY away received our TV signals today, and immediately set out to come here, and had the ability to travel at a significant fraction of the speed of light it would take them until 2087 to arrive here...

It would also take them that long to arrive here based on observations from their home world.

In the end it all comes down to---How did they know were we are...?



Yes, but if they intercepted certain tv signals, they would assume that we look like barney, the muppets, or teenie weenie, dipstick, lal la and po. That doesn't mean they know what we look like if they intercept tv signals, for all they know, we could look like plates, curtains or any of the rubbish they advertise these days.

I also think that nearly all of us, including hazzard, aren't thinking out side the box. We postulate lengths of time to get here and all of this stuff, when we haven't got a clue or a cat in hells chance of finding out whether they have had breakthroughs and are able to do it in a one - hundredth of the time hazzard just postulated. Think outside of the box a bit more people!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Thanks, GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN
anarkhy
QUOTE (GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN @ Apr 11 2008, 11:13 PM) *
Yes, but if they intercepted certain tv signals, they would assume that we look like barney, the muppets, or teenie weenie, dipstick, lal la and po. That doesn't mean they know what we look like if they intercept tv signals, for all they know, we could look like plates, curtains or any of the rubbish they advertise these days.

I also think that nearly all of us, including hazzard, aren't thinking out side the box. We postulate lengths of time to get here and all of this stuff, when we haven't got a clue or a cat in hells chance of finding out whether they have had breakthroughs and are able to do it in a one - hundredth of the time hazzard just postulated. Think outside of the box a bit more people!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Thanks, GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN


So aliens are smart enough to create antennas and watch tv shows from earth, and at the same time they are too dumb to differentiate a living being from the transformers movie? grin2.gif

Not to mention skeptics still think that its ok for humans to observe the universe, and one day, maybe discover how to travel to distant stars searching for life. But at the same time its impossible that any other civilization had the same idea and get here first... Then your believe is today science is all that is, and there is nothing else more?






anarkhy


And i do expect they are not addicted to our porn, otherwise the first contact could be very strange if they think thats how we compliment our kind...




hazzard
Lets talk about Skyeagles claims....

No matter how many times you post those old documents, and believe you me, Iv read them all.

They are NOT the evidence that will convince the scientific community, me, or other skeptics for that matter. I would have to say that we are stuck in neutral. There is no real new research, stories, and thats why we have to revisit the trash of the past, over and over again.

Today, the 21st century, despite a torrent of sightings for more than a half-century, I cant think of a single, major science museum that has alien artifacts on display, or the date of FIRST CONTACT, being taught in a school anywere on the planet.

Why is that!?


When it comes to extraterrestrial visitors in the 21st century, the evidence is still anecdotal, ambiguous, or, in some cases, artifice.

Roswell you say!?

How does the claim that aliens must have careened out of control,ever thought about the "crashed 100 000 years ahed of us aliens" above the New Mexico desert, simply because some classified government documents sport a bunch of blacked out text. How does the latter prove the former!!?

Simple. It does NOT makes sense.

Sure, the missing verbiage might be consistent with a government coverup of an alien crash landing. But its also consistent with an infinitude of other scenarios...not all of them involving sloppy alien pilots.

It is not impossible that we could be visited. It doesnt violate physics to travel between the stars. We are doing it right now, remember voyager 1 and 2. Slowly compared to any possible hight tec aliens out there, yes, but we are doing it.

But really, if youre going to claim, that extraterrestrials are buzzing our cities, or occasionally assaulting the neighbors with an aggression inappropriate for a first date, then I urge you to find evidence that leaves little doubt among the professionally skeptical community known as the world of science. The "It cant have been invented here" speculation by eyewitnesses is not hard evidence.

Far from it.

UFO studies will continue until all the old cases have either been explained or admitted to being unexplainable, and unexplainable, and you are one of them, as most of us knows, no matter how impressive the sighting is to the eyewitnesses or how graphic the stories...Its still not hard scientific evidence of extraterrestrials on Earth.

You, and I, know that it takes more to "blow the lid" of this thing then what you have been posting!
skyeagle409
QUOTE (GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN @ Apr 11 2008, 07:13 PM) *
Skyeagle, I hope this isn't a personal question, and I am certainly not questioing your experience, but what did happen to you that made you believe in the paranormal, ufos and aliens, hazzard has mentioned it, before and so have you, but what happened?

Thanks, GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN


My own sighting of a saucer-shaped UFO that overflew my base in Vietnam, which left all of us practically speechless for a few minutes afterwards. Another is the experiences of my compartriots who were stationed at RAF Bentwaters, UK, during the UFO incidents there. As a result, I became very interested in UFOs and the more I began checking into the phenomena, the more I was uncovering what was not being reported publically, and some of the assistance came directly from the USAF and that is why I have been stating that the data evidence is that evidence of ET visitation because I was made aware of what the data was depicting, and the data was depicting intelligently controlled crafts whose performance characteristics were far advanced than anything we now have in our arsenal, and that is yet another reason why I tend to go back to the 1950's, because the intelligently controlled UFOs of that decades were exhibiting advanced maneuvers and technology that even our most advanced fighters of today cannot match. That is yet another reason why I have been posting references from the AIM/FAR manual to prove that we don't have the technology available even today and hence, the flying objects could not have been ours.

The Air Force has already noted that some UFOs are those of ET and it is no longer a secret today if one reviews history of 1947, 1948, and 1952 in regards to what the Air Force stated in regards to the UFOs as not ours, meaning not those of mankind. Even aircrews have stated that the UFOs they encountered were those of ET, and the data evidence backed them up, and that in addition to the data supplied by FAA officials and air traffic controllers. To further add, even satellite engineers who supply spy satellites for NORAD, have been revealing data evidence at conferences proving that NORAD has been tracking UFOs flying in from deep space for years.

On another note, UFOs have been operating beneath the oceans and many of the public were aware of that fact, but then again, it is not something the Navy likes to talk about nor have published in the newspapers, which is why the public is not aware of what is going on beneath the ocean waves.

I found out many things in regards to UFOs and that is why I am predicting that official revelation will come in our lifetime and the sad note in that is that it has been reality all along (the Air Force revealed during the 1960's that the UFO phenomena is some 50,000 years old) , but no one in the presidency had the guts to reveal the public, that ET has been here for centuries because their name will be attached to whatever happens if they should reveal reality for what it is afterwards, and their name will be etched on the rock of history forever, whether for good or bad.

For instance, what would be the reaction of the public and how would Wall Street take the news? Once the revelation is made offically to the whole world, there can be no turning back and the president will be the only person reponsible for the consequences and will know that when they wake up the next morning, the world will be changed forever because of what they had done,; whether for good or bad.

Question is; who will be the person who has the courage to do what eventually will be done and should have been done years ago?
skyeagle409
QUOTE (anarkhy @ Apr 12 2008, 02:13 AM) *
How the FOI works? When we will see the archives of modern ufo sightings, i mean, not things from 1947 but those encounters occurred in 1970 until today?


UFO trackings, incidents/encounters take place every month, but for the most part, they not reported to the public. People are not aware that UFOs tend to fly at altitudes beyond visual range, so they had no idea that several probably overlfew their home moments ago far above 90,000 feet. It was at those altitudes that scientist became interested because there were objects flying at thoes altitudes that were not aircraft, and one of those interested in the Air Force surveillance data, was none other than Dr. Carl Sagan whose UFO letter was noted at the National Achives several years ago, raised some eyebrows. Reported in the San Francisco Chronicle.

There have been scientist who have documented their own UFO sightings, including those who observied flying saucers hovering some 200 miles above Earth, which obvious exclude helicopters. It is those facts that are now being revealed, which have been kept from the eyes of the public for decades.

Back in April 1992 as I was returing to my home base in California after a TDY at Andrews AFB, it was revealed that the Air Force tried to intercept an UFO on a westerly heading but to no avail. It was never reported to the public and the only reason I found out about it is because I happened to be at the right place at the right time.

Even though I was TDY at Andrews AFB, I was billeted at Bolling AFB, which is just across the river from Reagan airport, an airport that became the centerpiece involving the 1952 Washington D.C. UFO incidents.

skyeagle409
QUOTE (hazzard @ Apr 12 2008, 03:46 AM) *
Lets talk about Skyeagles claims....

No matter how many times you post those old documents, and believe you me, Iv read them all.


I repost the old documents and incidents because it seems there are those who are deaf when it comes to the sound of reality.

QUOTE
They are NOT the evidence that will convince the scientific community, me, or other skeptics for that matter.


You keep bringing up the scientific community while ignoring the fact that there are scientist who are stating that ET visitation is a fact, and you have been ignoring the fact that the scientific community has decided to get involved in the UFO phenomena, but you would have known that if you have been following up on the facts.

In fact, you have also been ignoring the fact that scientific means have been used to verify eyewitness accounts and another fact is, you tend to ignore the data evidence, which proves that the UFOs are in fact, intelligently controlled crafts, and that in addition, that you also wanted to ignore the lack of sonic booms when it comes to UFOs and supersonic flight.

What's up with all of that??? Thank goodness countries are beginning to open their own UFO files and stating that they depict intelligently controlled crafts, but then again, that is what I have been asserting for years and now, that reality is now being revealed by other governements around the globe and it is about time!!
REBEL
QUOTE (skyeagle409 @ Apr 12 2008, 02:42 PM) *
I repost the old documents and incidents because it seems there are those who are deaf when it comes to the sound of reality.

In fact, you have also been ignoring the fact that scientific means have been used to verify eyewitness accounts and another fact is, you tend to ignore the data evidence, which proves that the UFOs are in fact, intelligently controlled crafts, and that in addition, that you also wanted to ignore the lack of sonic booms when it comes to UFOs and supersonic flight.

What's up with all of that??? Thank goodness countries are beginning to open their own UFO files and stating that they depict intelligently controlled crafts, but then again, that is what I have been asserting for years and now, that reality is now being revealed by other governements around the globe and it is about time!!


What would that mean exactly SE, because somehow i still think complete & full disclosure wont prevail...again...as usual. Old/new files documents etc etc can still be suppressed & or destroyed even before the public gets a look. Remembering that governments are mere puppets to the puppet masters/shadow government/global elite/illuminati <--(did i miss anyone there?) lol!!!
skyeagle409
QUOTE (REBEL @ Apr 12 2008, 05:45 AM) *
What would that mean exactly SE, because somehow i still think complete & full disclosure wont prevail...again...as usual. Old/new files documents etc etc can still be suppressed & or destroyed even before the public gets a look. Remembering that governments are mere puppets to the puppet masters/shadow government/global elite/illuminati <--(did i miss anyone there?) lol!!!


What it all means, is that we are on our way to full disclosure eventually and the UFO files are factual and noted by our own government as well,, as for the example, made it all the way up to the White House as was the case in the Iranian UFO encounter where NORAD's DSP satellite tracked the UFO aerial encounters between the UFOs and the Iranian F-4 Phantoms. In fact, even the infrared seeker on the AIM-9 missile on one of the F-4 Phantoms, detected one of the UFOs and the UFO had the audacity to overfly the F-4's home base before heading out over the sea where an aircrew of an Egyptian airliner made visual contact of that same UFO. And yes, the U. S. government was also aware of the Trindade flying saucer, which was why the president of Brazil went public after scientific analysis had determined that the flying saucer was authentic.

An Iranian military official later admitted on video that the UFOs were those of ET, as did the professor who teaches at a military institude in Belgium who later stated that same for the incidents there, so we are heading towards where we should have been going decades ago .
REBEL
QUOTE (skyeagle409 @ Apr 12 2008, 03:32 PM) *
What it all means, is that we are on our way to full disclosure eventually and the UFO files are factual and noted by our own government as well,, as for the example, made it all the way up to the White House as was the case in the Iranian UFO encounter where NORAD'sDSP satellite tracked the UFO aerial encounters between the UFOs and the Iranian F-4 Phantoms.

An Iranian military official admitted on video that the UFOs were those of ET, as did the professor who teaches at a military institude in Belgium who later stated that same for the incidents there, so we are heading towards where we should have been going decades ago .

Who's gonna listen/believe a lone Iranian military official when we've had top brass/government officials of the past from USA, UK, Europe etc hint and practcally admit their existence only to fall on deaf ears?...
skyeagle409
QUOTE (REBEL @ Apr 12 2008, 07:12 AM) *
Who's gonna listen/believe a lone Iranian military official when we've had top brass/government officials of the past from USA, UK, Europe etc hint and practcally admit their existence only to fall on deaf ears?...


The Iranian UFO case is where the DIA, CIA, State Department ,and even the Department of Defense, confirmed the incident and the report was sent straight up to the White House, so there were those in government who were not deaf as to the UFO event that took place over Iran.
Zaus
Oh please, its hollywood.

They do it to everything!!!

People get the idea that there is fiction and non-fiction.

All of the sudden the government controls truth and non-truth.

So obvious even a cave-man could figure it out?

So obvious anyone who is not in denial can see the light about our holy president who signed us away to the NAU(North american union)?

So obvious that anyone with a brain knows that there have been many, many, many more holocaust(albeit not as large(or as covered, need i mention the VARNER Bros? and the rest of these b******* that are using israel for the new WWIII)).

Noone seemed to notice when other holocausts happened in Cambodia, Russia, China, Germany, Poland, Armenia, Georgia, Belorussia, Hungary and the Ukraine over the past 100 years...

You dont think america is a target for the same? Dont you ever look around you? Dont you see what happens to people living in "the matrix"?

Their eyes glare over, their personalities vanish...

It is my belief that the entire human race was created through genetic modification(a metaphor comes to mind, what was it? Oh yeah, aliens raping early man) and we were literaly genetically encoded to have the "cattle" or "tribal/subservient) genes. Really, it is the "machine" or "hive mind" gene but... thats so horribly sad...

Duely NOted: The author of the above, below, and in-between is highly intoxicated)"

AHAHAHA i kid(with the (") but seriously! What other "rational" reason can YOU come up with that explains why we are the ONLY sentient beings on this planet(or so they want you to think...), and WHY???? and also why does NOONE know where the F they came from?!?!

I have never heard a good argument for that one, and considering what i know about the pyramids(oh no the ego!), which BTW are MASSIVE, and HAVE YET to have light shown upon them as to what they are.

I'll tell you one thing though, they WERE a clock, calendar, and everything the movie "stargate" said about the "stargate" in it was in-fact the truth about the pyramids.

This is how they implant "subliminal" messages(images, association by location, w/e else the brain naturally "connects" at the subconscious level).

They = Rockefeller family/ and the rest of the ******* *********ers)(lol)

Fiction/non-fiction = truth/untruth

How do you know they aren't lying to EVERYONE, and EVERYONE believes it?

Think about that for a second, nevermind, ill do the thinking for anyone!?>>!>>!>!>?!?!?

HOW do you KNOW the truth(seperation of fiction from non-fiction, and appraisal(up-raisL) of non-fiction).

HOW do you KNOW they ARE NOT lying to you(obviously not EVERYTHING OMG!!!, but it is truly so much more than you would think a corporate, fascist government could get away with, it will make you vomit)? Because YOU have never had a psychic experience(or in my case i attribute it to a ghost/personal demon unleashed by fear???)?
Because YOU have never seen a UFO(my god you should be thankful, the wonder is not worth it)?
Because YOU have not "seen" a corporate/government conspiracy(you most definitely have, and did not recognize it)

Corporate/Government really is interchangeable.... .... .... ... .. .. .. . . ug.

again...

Do you base your "truth" on the mainstream? even without knowing it, if you agree with the mainstream CENSORED, CENSORED, CENSORED(i typed something really... bad... (T)here... for you)

Refer to my thread "welcome to my insanity" for a continuance, because i feel like spouting some shteem....... UTI!!!(Under The Influence)


HAJiME
There's little difference between believing and knowing.
skyeagle409
QUOTE (Zaus @ Apr 12 2008, 08:23 AM) *
Because YOU have never seen a UFO(my god you should be thankful, the wonder is not worth it)?


I have seen a UFO and it definitely was worth it!

That is just one reason of many why I have been asserting that ET visitation is a fact.

GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN
QUOTE (HAJiME @ Apr 12 2008, 09:56 AM) *
There's little difference between believing and knowing.


Obviously not, you could believee that Harvey the Rabbit exists, but nearly everyone on earth knows that he doesn't. There is a mssive difference between believing and knowing. You could belive that there is a God, but you also know that there is science, once again there is a big difference between believing and knowing. If you believe something, 9 times out of 10, there is no evidence or fact to back the claims up. With knowing, 9 times out of 10 there is evidence, facts and it has been proven. Don't think that they are the same, because they are not, in fact they are nearly opposite to each other.

Thanks, GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN
hazzard
QUOTE (HAJiME @ Apr 12 2008, 09:56 AM) *
There's little difference between believing and knowing.


There is a vast difference between the two. You may believe all you want to. But knowledge requires a higher standard of evidence than that which propels belief.

What needs to be understood is the burden of proof that science and its method requires.

As believers begin to build the case about UFO = Aliens, the foundation of this is built on hear say, speculations, theories, guess work, assumptions, beliefs and emotions.

But there are no real scientific evidence or Facts.

Until we can prove 100% that these are not terrestrial fenomenon, or our next generation high tec ships - we are guessing.



skyeagle409
QUOTE (hazzard @ Apr 12 2008, 06:09 PM) *
What needs to be understood is the burden of proof that science and its method requires.


It is no mystery to me as to why some of the folks who have indicated that some UFOs are those of ET, are scientist and engineers.

QUOTE
As believers begin to build the case about UFO = Aliens, the foundation of this is built on hear say, speculations, theories, guess work, assumptions, beliefs and emotions.


Once again, you are ignoring the data evidence and why countries around the globe are now confirming that the UFOs in question are under intelligent control and the documented performance charateristics prove beyond any doubt that the objects are not those of mankind because of the advanced technology involved.

QUOTE
But there are no real scientific evidence or Facts.


False!! And, rightly so, since you can't prove those hypersonic flying saucers as those of mankind, and if they are not ours, then they are those of someone else other than mankind. Simple common sense logic. An scientific means have been used to verify the UFOs as authentic, and once again, why the President of Brazil went public after analysis proved the flying saucer as authentic.

QUOTE
Until we can prove 100% that these are not terrestrial fenomenon, or our next generation high tec ships - we are guessing.


That has already been done in regards to the data evidence collected over the decades and references from the AIM/FAR, Part 91 and Appendix "B," which proved that the hypersonic UFOs were not those of mankind because they do not create sonic booms, and that is just one example of many as to why those UFOs are not those of mankind.

QUOTE


* "The discs use a means of propulsion different from ours. There is no other possible explanation. Flying saucers come from another world."

-Louis Breguet, French aircraft designer and manufacturer.


* "What I found [in doing research for the book Project Delta] was compelling evidence to claim that most of these aerial objects far exceeded the terrestrial technology of the era in which they were seen. I was forced to conclude that there is a great likelihood that Earth is being visited by highly advanced aerospace vehicles under highly 'intelligent' control indeed."

-Dr. Richard F. Haines, retired NASA senior research scientist at Ames Research Center and the Research Institute for Advanced Computer Science where he worked on the International Space Station.--From the preface of his book, CE-5, 1998.


* "Many professional astronomers are convinced that saucers are interplanetary machines."

-Dr. Frank Halstead of the Darling Observatory, Minnesota--1957



* MANEUVERED MOTION AND "INTELLIGENT CONTROL:"
Following the nearly year-long 1952 UFO sighting wave in which there were repeated instances of jet interceptors chasing after UFOs that also showed on radar, the Central Intelligence Agency convened the so-called Robertson Panel to evaluate the data. Among the presentations made to the scientific panel was one by Dewey J. Fournet (USAF, Ret.) who had worked with scientific analysts conducting a rigorous motion analysis study of hardcore unexplained cases.

Edward J. Ruppelt, former Chief of the Air Force Project Blue Book investigation, later reported that the study was "very hot and very controversial...[it] was hot because it wasn't official and the reason it wasn't official was because it was so hot. It concluded that UFOs were interplanetary spaceships."

Air Force analysts had reached this conclusion before. Project Sign in 1948 had issued a Top Secret Estimate of the Situation drawing the same conclusion. (Hall, 1964, p. 110) But both times outside scientific consultants, on the basis of what were arguably superficial and excessively skeptical reviews, disputed the conclusion. (Hall, 1988, pp. 155-163)

Many of these jet interception cases included a sort of "cat-and-mouse" behavior on the part of the UFOs, pulling away from the pursuing jets and then slowing down until they caught up again. This behavior has been repeated throughout the history of UFOs, and is one of the many indicators of intelligence behind the phenomenon. Case after case can be cited of UFOs apparently playing interactive games with (a) military aircraft.


The scientific community has been getting involved in UFOs for some time now and even more so, lately.
hazzard
QUOTE (skyeagle409 @ Apr 12 2008, 05:25 PM) *
It is no mystery to me as to why some of the folks who have indicated that some UFOs are those of ET, are scientist and engineers.


It doesnt matter if the entire world believe in the ETH, if they arent real. You do know that even today, 2008, there is about 2 billion people that believe that two thousand years ago the son of a carpenter could walk on water!?



QUOTE
Once again, you are ignoring the data evidence and why countries around the globe are now confirming that the UFOs in question are under intelligent control and the documented performance charateristics prove beyond any doubt that the objects are not those of mankind because of the advanced technology involved.


I have seen this "data evidence" and Im not impressed. You are, Im not. Its like your trace evidence to me, non existing.



QUOTE
That has already been done in regards to the data evidence collected over the decades and references from the AIM/FAR, Part 91 and Appendix "B," which proved that the hypersonic UFOs were not those of mankind because they do not create sonic booms, and that is just one example of many as to why those UFOs are not those of mankind.


As a helicopter flight instructor Im familiar with the AIM-FAR. I says nothing in there about UFOs being Alien spaceships.


QUOTE
The scientific community has been getting involved in UFOs for some time now and even more so, lately.



Thats a good thing. yes.gif
skyeagle409
QUOTE (hazzard @ Apr 12 2008, 07:09 PM) *
It doesnt matter if the entire world believe in the ETH, if they arent real. You do know that even today, 2008, there is about 2 billion people that believe that two thousand years ago the son of a carpenter could walk on water!?


But, flying saucers have been verified via various electronic and optical means, and why the military has stated in the past that they are "interplanetary spaceships." In addition, there were scientist who concurred with that assessement based on their own observations and of course, the data evidence.

QUOTE
I have seen this "data evidence" and Im not impressed.


That is what separates us, simply because you don't have the "knowledge" to ascertain what the data evidence depicts, and I do and it is that "knowledge" which counts. After all, history has proven me correct time after time when the facts were eventuallyrevealed.

QUOTE
As a helicopter flight instructor Im familiar with the AIM-FAR. I says nothing in there about UFOs being Alien spaceships.


You had completely missed the whole point of the argument!!! blink.gif

What did I say about the lack of sonic booms in regards to the superonic UFOs and what is listed in AIM/FAR, Part 91, 817, and Appendix "B" as far as regulations concerning supersonic flight?

It shows that the UFOs, which have been flying at supersonic and hypersonic speeds over the United States, are not bound by the regulations of the FAA because they have already solved the problem of sonic booms whereas, mankind hasn't, which means that since we haven't solved the problem of the sonic boom, then someone other than mankind has and why in the AIM/FAR manual, that is why we are restricted from supersonic flight over the United States because we are not there on the level of the operators of those exotic hypersonic machines that do not created sonic booms.

The Air Force colonel of the Belgian Air Force made a note that the triangular UFO seen by thousands of witnesses and tracked on various ground-based and airborne radar systems, was exceeding the speed of sound and did not create any sonic booms, son once again, refer to the AIM/FAR and understand why we are still retricted from supersonic flight.

So, recap the references again and understand what I have just said in regards that they have sovled the problem of the sonic boom, whereas, we haven't.
NigelTM
I believe it was from the Nova special on the Bermuda Triangle I first heard this, but even if not, it's an excellent point to remember, and I'll add it to the end of something SkyEagle quoted.

QUOTE
* "What I found [in doing research for the book Project Delta] was compelling evidence to claim that most of these aerial objects far exceeded the terrestrial technology of the era in which they were seen. I was forced to conclude that there is a great likelihood that Earth is being visited by highly advanced aerospace vehicles under highly 'intelligent' control indeed."

-Dr. Richard F. Haines, retired NASA senior research scientist at Ames Research Center and the Research Institute for Advanced Computer Science where he worked on the International Space Station.--From the preface of his book, CE-5, 1998.

"If the events actually happened as reported," then perhaps the odds may be in favor of the ETH.
GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN
QUOTE (NigelTM @ Apr 12 2008, 07:30 PM) *
I believe it was from the Nova special on the Bermuda Triangle I first heard this, but even if not, it's an excellent point to remember, and I'll add it to the end of something SkyEagle quoted.


"If the events actually happened as reported," then perhaps the odds may be in favor of the ETH.


Does anyone here actually think the bermuda triangle and UFOS are linked in some way? Like a hotspot for abductions?


Thanks, GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN
DONTEATUS
Although pages and pages of text in here seems to say air that is a mass of particles of mixed gasses and other junk in the trunk,cannot be accelarated through faster the speed of sonnd with out makeing a sonic boom. Why do we think for a min that we know everything? Five hundred years ago If you said you could take a picture of someone and put it into a machine a then transport it all over the world and beond in a sec you would of been burned at the steak! Yummy now Im hungry for a rare T-Bone on the grill LoL DONTEATUS tongue.gif
GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN
QUOTE (DONTEATUS @ Apr 12 2008, 09:44 PM) *
Although pages and pages of text in here seems to say air that is a mass of particles of mixed gasses and other junk in the trunk,cannot be accelarated through faster the speed of sonnd with out makeing a sonic boom. Why do we think for a min that we know everything?


We do know that, we don't think we know it, we know it, its been proven! lol !

QUOTE (DONTEATUS @ Apr 12 2008, 09:44 PM) *
Five hundred years ago If you said you could take a picture of someone and put it into a machine a then transport it all over the world and beond in a sec you would of been burned at the steak! Yummy now Im hungry for a rare T-Bone on the grill LoL DONTEATUS tongue.gif


Of course you would lol, you'd get burnt at the stake for even mentioning the word earth and round in the same sentence lol !


Thanks, GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN
Stellar
QUOTE
In the end it all comes down to---How did they know were we are...?


Maybe they dont... they were just exploring and found us.
REBEL
QUOTE (hazzard @ Apr 13 2008, 03:39 AM) *
It doesnt matter if the entire world believe in the ETH, if they arent real.

You do know that even today, 2008, there is about 2 billion people that believe that two thousand years ago the son of a carpenter could walk on water!?

Good point...err maybe he had some kinda 'levitated' assistance. rofl.gif

Thats where i think most religions especially christianity thrived/s, on mankind's oldest and most powerful emotion, 'fear'. You have them living in fear they become far easier to control etc...as life & 'death' still remains one of man's greatest mysteries.


linked-image
my picture editing sux i know...
skyeagle409
QUOTE (REBEL @ Apr 13 2008, 07:29 AM) *
Good point...err maybe he had some kinda 'levitated' assistance. rofl.gif


Never ridicule that, for which you do not understand.

I can cite actual paranormal events regarding an Air Force C-141A, ( I reviewed the actual write-up in the aircraft's forms), Eastern Airlines Flt 401 and events afterwards, and American Airlines Flt 191 and events leading up to the crash in Chicago and the involvement of several airlines, the Air Force and the FAA in those cases to prove my point that we don't understand the full nature of what the universe is all about.
skyeagle409
Wilbert Smith, Engineer

I made discreet enquiries through the Canadian Embassy staff in Washington who were able to obtain for me the following information:

a. The matter is the most highly classified subject in the United States Government, rating higher even than the H-bomb.

b. Flying saucers exist.

c. Their modus operandi is unknown but concentrated effort is being made by a small group headed by Doctor Vannevar Bush.

d. The entire matter is considered by the United States authorities to be of tremendous significance.



The Colorado Study

A UFO paced an RAF fighter plane for 10 minutes while ground radar tracked it. The Colorado report said of this case that the "probability that at least one genuine UFO was involved appears to be fairly high." (Bantam, 248-256).




SCIENTISTS ASK THAT UFOS ARE STUDIED SERIOUSLY:

Six famous scientists recommended that the Congress should seriously plan to give its support to an intensive international study of UFOS (unidentified flying objects). They asked in a pressing way that the subject is not condemned in advance, not turned in derision and not overlooked.

The six scientists brought their testimonial to a UFO symposium sponsored by House Committee on Science and Astronautics. These scientists were: Dr. Robert L. Baker Jr of the Computer Sciences Corporation; Dr. Robert L. Hall, professor of sociology at the university of Illinois; Dr. James A. Harder, professor of civil engineering of the University of California with Berkeley; Dr. J. Allen Hynek, adviser of the U.S. Air Force as regards UFOS and astrophysicist in Northwestern University; Dr. James McDonald, senior of physics at the university of Arizona and Dr. Carl Sagan, astronomer in Cornell University.

McDonald spoke about what he learned while studying more than 300 cases of UFOs observations. The number of UFO sightings being accompanied by some form by interference with the ground networks of electrical power distribution convinced him, he said, that UFOS are perfectly real, with a "strong possibility that we are under the monitoring of extraterrestrial intelligences... No service has never studied that, and however", told McDonald, "it could be the answer to all the question about UFOS."

Sagan supported this opinion: "If we are visited by extraterrestrial travelers, it would be crazy that we are not interested". He suggested that more stress is put on programs of interplanetary exploration, to obtain more information.

The scientists were unanimous to recommend that the existing program of investigation of the U.S. Air Force must be left aside in favor of a program whose direction would be entrusted to the National Science Foundation, or to the National Academy of Sciences. Hynek urged that an international study be undertaken on a worldwide scale under the authority of the U.N.

It is expected that the U.S. Air Force will submit during this September the report on its program of investigation on UFOS to the National Academy of Sciences. Last spring, the member of the Chamber of Representatives J. Edward Rousch (representative of Indiana) had recommended that the Congress takes the direction of all research on UFOS.