Just one question - if you have been that close to a grey you will understand why I ask this:

what did it smell like?

smell like farts and cheese!!
but really i smelled nothing

Did the gray look like they do in the movies by any chance??

I posted a documentary on the Dragon's Triangle on that thread.

Not many people are aware that many ships and aircraft have disappeared without a trace and amongst those who disappeared in the Dragon's Triangle was Ameila Earhart. Radio and TV personality, Arthur Godfrey, a highly experienced pilot himself, had a frightening experience over the Dragon's Triangle when he saw an USO, which also affected his aircraft and that wasn't his only encounter with a UFO either.

Commodore Matthew Perry of the U.S. Navy, also reported and documented his own encounter with a UFO in the Dragon's Triangle and watched as the UFO disappeared beneath the ocean waves after maneuvering around in the sky for a period of time and many ships and aircraft have also reported USO's in the Dragon's Triangle as they rose from beneath the ocean.

The real actually do look like the ones in movies,but that's no surprise. Hollywood have based their off of peoples encounters ,not the other way around

Er Mid what likelihood of that forget the ufo just try correlating a particular jet landing and taking off aa soon as air traffic control starts tracking them in then afterwards correlating witnesses stories, there would be variation plus you seem to assume that a newscrew would be 'on scene' in the event of alien landings, in the current day an age its highly unlikely unless thousands of reports came in which is not likely as the government would have the situation shut down in minutes citing testing of military craft. As for extra terrestrial minerals or fuels why would there be after all if our scientists are right then the same elements exist everywhere and if they are wrong well what else are they wrong about. The proof is to examine history religion architecture ufo sightings evolution and technology see if some things have mysteriously moved faster than before (evolution and technological advances) if some things could not have been built by human hands (the temple of jupiters foundation stones ?) or if sightings by more than one persons who are unconnected match up then eventually how many of them can be liars. when you have done this you create a union of freedom of informationists and when you have about 40000000 of them you all descend on area 51 and tell the government you are not going back to work till they come clean believe me faced with the facts that show aliens must exist and the fact that the economy would collapse unless they concede you would have your proof in about a month unfortunately not enough people can be bothered to search for evidence an fewer still would blackmail there government so untill an invasion fleet arrives just wait for a single crash landing in your backyard

Today, the 21st century, despite a torrent of sightings for more than a half-century, I cant think of a single, major science museum that has alien artifacts on display, or the date of FIRST CONTACT, being taught in a school anywere on the planet.
[i]


In response to the above yes we have but we have been banned there is an ancient artifact that was hidden in a museum for years that looks like a space shuttle of today, what about the crystal skulls of the maya ( really the mayan calendar may suggest they were or associated with et as they had two an earth one and a separate cycle one ... why?) Why cant anyone dig under the sphinx for the hall of records (edgar cayce may be right when wasnt he) not for fear of damage in this day of technology we can restore an preserve buildings of years an years of age but couldnt take care of an ancient monument, as if an i suggest u all look at the bible code and althoug i dont remember where it is at the moment the iron column that cant be aged but that has been there for a few hundred years at least by witness evidence why ? and finally the languages we cant translate (mayan again) and teh fact that important texts -rossetta stone- are on stone primitive or just sense, after all those stone tablets are still here where will a cd be in a hundred years and how would a new civilization read it a stone can always be read if not understood

[quote name='skyeagle409' date='Apr 14 2008, 02:11 PM' post='2245824']


Uidentified Surmerged Objects (USO)
What The Public Didn't Know

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64tmqDzSwT0


http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseacti...eoID=1229513701

14.02.2008
UFO Museum to Open in Russia



One of the most anomalous zones of Russia – Samarskaya Luka – has been an object of interest for researchers for a long time. During long years of observing and analysis the researchers have collected a lot of information and documental proofs of the paranormal phenomena frequently occurring in the region. Frequent UFO reports by the local citizens became a reason for forming a special ufologist commission and opening a “hot phone line” for people who witnessed UFO or something paranormal.

The local UFO researchers initiated an idea of opening an UFO museum in Togliatty featuring photographs, multiple witnesses` UFO evidence, and even scientific works. The regional authorities have already expressed interest for the project and think that an UFO museum could perfectly fit in with the tourist concept of the city.

------------------------------------------------

It will be interesting to see what they have.

What exactly are you saying?

There are lots of things we cant do, or explain, today, that is in noway evidence of anything paranormal. It just means that we cant explain it. Yet.

And Skyeagle, Aliens on Earth, bermuda/devils triangle and ghosts, life after death and ESP, so far..Did I miss anything?...

Is your "evidence" of the others are as belief oriented as the ETH....!

You must have been upwind of it then! although your description is closer than you think.

Anyway, away from smelly aliens lol, what are peoples views of aliens transportation methods, like ways of travelling, e.g black holes. also technology and power scources, e.g antimatter etc.

Thanks, GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN

Never knew they actually stink...kind of hard to believe they have the tech to travel the universe but they never had time to make a shower lol

well here is my idea .Their ship utilizes a system that makes everything in it a singularity so g forces has no effect on anything in it since all matter in it accelerates as one item. they have like a force field around it also not sure why..I've seen ufo travel across the sky in deep space and were out of sight in a few seconds from what I've seen they easily travel faster than light.I don't think they have reason to use worm holes...Does anyone have any idea why they sometimes glow?

These b******* came to spy on me 3 nights in a row a few years back I don't even know if I've been abducted!
but they have this strange effect when they are near you,your body starts to relax then eventually your out cold
Maybe they use their huge brain to emit a frequency to stun people,fly their craft,stink and teleport short distances.

But hey its just a guess.

The CIA's "Project Stargate, not to mention, "Grill Flame." Stanford University was involved in ESP research and it was reported that the participants were scoring around 66%, which is above that of chance, as presented by KPIX-TV, channel 5, in San Francisco, CA.



They are based on actual events, and why I have said in the past that we have a lot to learn about the true nature of the universe. Just a little hint at what was to be revealed.




During the 1960's the Air Force revealed to its own cadets at the academy that it tried to shoot down flying saucers and even covered attempts of the Soviet Union to do likewise.

Oh skyeagle, I wish you could have stayed with the ETH! All this other nonsense you believe in...

Actually, it helps when you know the rest of the story rather than ridicule that, for which you have no understanding.

The events I cited were A-C-T-U-A-L events, but you would have known that if you had investigated the cases I mentioned since they are well-documented by the FAA and of the airlines I mentioned. You would have known of the official directives issued to the airlines by the FAA prior to the crash of American Flt 191 based on the paranormal and actions taken after the crash of the Eastern jet, which was also based on the paranormal. The airlines and the FAA had mechanics scrambling in both cases and look what you posted!!

It is common knowledge within the commercial aviation community of events surrounding the Eastern and American accidents and of FAA involvement leading up to the crash of the American crash and the directive issued after the crash of the Eastern, which suggested that the paranormal was taken very seriously by the airlines and by the FAA., but you would have known that if you had investigated those incidents as I have done.

Once again, it is just a matter of doing your homework to have the K-N-O-W-L-E-D-G-E to know what is going on in the world.


Is it any wonder then, why some skeptics are closed-minded UFO skeptics whose closed eyes forbid their minds from seeing the truth, which is currently being revealed by nations around the globe? And, I expect the number of countries revealing reality to grow in the coming years, but then again, the Air Force has already said back in the late 1940s that UFOs were not only real, but are "interplanetary spaceships," so is it any wonder as to why we have this newspaper clipping and others like it?!



It is clearly evident that that Air Force is not ordering its pilots to shoot down weather balloons.

I'm only doing this to add fuel to the fire: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_UFOs

Nazi technology hehehe...

Actually, the Air Force wasn't referring to NAZI flying saucers when it said the flying saucers were "interplanetry spaceships." Now, it has been revealed that NORAD has been tracking UFOs as they fly in from deep space up to 500 times per year and that Dr. Carl Sagan was aware of Air Force surveillance data of UFOs at altitudes far above that of normal aircraft back in the 1960s.

Besides, we didn't have hypersonic flying saucers that do not create sonic booms during high speed flights and, flying saucers were reported in Japan in the year, 1133.

Sorry. You must excuse me.

No problem!




"When officers of this Directorate recently visited the Swedish Air Intelligence Service, this question was put to the Swedes. Their answer was that some reliable and fully technically qualified people have reached the conclusion that 'these phenomena are obviously the result of a high technical skill which cannot be credited to any presently known culture on earth.' They are therefore assuming that these objects originate from some previously unknown or unidentified technology, possibly outside the earth."

(Bolding mine)

And again, no direct, physical, incontrovertible proof they've been here. Let's take what Sky Eagle says literally: if aliens have been visiting Earth 500 times per year since 1133 (I know, they've been coming here for thousands of years, but we'll keep it simple and use the numbers from his post), that is 500 * 875 = 450,000 times (500 times per year multiplied by 875 years, the duration of time from 1133 to 2008).

Inconceivable that the various governments of the world have been so efficient to gather every scrap of evidence and keep it hidden from the public all these years. Yet the aliens show themselves to people as disparate as Travis Walton and Betty and Barney Hill.

I think the believers are complicating matters unnecessarily.

Actually, that always has been and why nations around the globe are opening up their own UFO files that were held secret for decades and the data and other physical evidence is that proof, which has been evident all along.



The Air Force was presenting a figure of 50,000 years to its cadets, which was kept secret from the public until it was leaked. You would be amazed on what you will find if you had done half as much research as I have done on the UFO enigma and why I have been stating that UFO reality is a fact and why J. Allen Hynek was no longer the hardcore skeptic that he was after he began his own investigation into UFOs.



Is it any wonder that the overwhelming majority of UFO encounters and sightings go unreported yet there are still over 100,000 unexplained case files still on the books? In other words, UFO cases could very well run into the millions!



In some ways, the government has been efficient in keeping secrets, and how many years has it convinced the public that a weather balloon was responsible for the Roswell incident? What did the Air Force say about that in 1994? The public was not aware of the CIA's A-12, and many other secret aircraft until years after the fact. Even the Glomar Explorer and secret missions of the Navy's submarines were withheld from the public until the true missions were revealed years later.

So in some case, the government has been very good at keeping secrets but it is losing a battle over its secrets of UFOs because other countries are now coming forward and opening up their own UFO files, but then again, the National Archives has been releasing our own government's declassified UFO files over the years as well proving that the UFOs are quite real indeed.



Actually, it is the skeptics who are on the wrong side of the fence as proven on many occasions in the past when the facts were eventually revealed, but then again, "I told them so," has been used by me on several occasions alone when the facts were revealed and I can provide some clear examples just how true that was.

Actually, I was referring to all the governments of the world throughout history, not just the US government. It seems more than a little improbable that the US government would be able to coverup sightings/artifacts that occurred/retrieved hundreds of years before there was a US government.

And in many ways, the US government has been very lousy at keeping secrets: Watergate (described by Nixon as a "third rate burglary"), Iran/Contra, Abu Ghraib, Hollywood gossip columns....considering those examples, I find it highly unlikely that any government could keep something like interplanetary visitors under wraps for long.

"You think too much of me, kid. I'm not that clever." -Virgil "The Turk" Sollozzo, The Godfather

The government was more open to UFOs prior to the release of the 1953 Robertson Report, but that all changed after the report was released. The report suggested that UFOs be debunked at all cost and the result of that suggestion soon became evident afterwards. Then, there was JANAP-146, which angered many commerical pilots and now, we have found that the CIA was very much behind many of the UFO debunking routines.

In addition, the U.S. Army has now acknowledge the existence of its Interplanetary Phenomeon Unit (IPU), which was argumented by Project Moon Dust and Operation Blue Fly whose mission was to recover spacecrafts and the word; "interplanetary" pretty much sums it up as to whose spacecrafts they were speaking of, especially since mankind was still years away from launching its first satellite. Eventually, the mission of the IPU was turned over to the Air Force.

Amongst documents and data being released at conferences by the Aerojet engineers, covers NORAD's space surveillance assets that have been tracking UFOs in space, which was revealed not long ago. So as you can see, as the years roll on, the more that is revealed on the UFO enigma that has been kept secret after all of these years from the public, and more declassified government UFO documents are now available under the FOIA with more to come.

I won't be surprised at all if some of those missing military documents of 1947, that are missing against military regulations from Roswell AAF, turned up eventually

I'm sorry SkyEagle, but you cannot base something like this on a newspaper article. You know aswell as I do that they could've been leaked false information as a ploy. I'm sorry, but if I was hazzard, I wouldn't accept this as any type of evidence that the air force was given the power to shoot down ufo's, it's proposterus beyond belief that skeptists on here would actually believe it!!

Thanks, GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN

It is all part of the overall puzzle, especially, since Air Force interceptors were involved in trying to intercept UFOs that were overflying the Pentagon, the White House and the rest of the Washington D.C. area, so it is not a ploy since it was evident the Air Force were very much involved in trying to intercept UFOs.

Here is one case of many.

http://www.nicap.org/reports/kinross.htm




Which eventually, resulted in this newspaper article.

Skyeagle has just shown us that he is just another credulous believer in the paranormal.

Sky, you can post how many old documents, or new, about EVP, the bermuda triangle or the other nonsense as you wish. Sorry, but you have blown away the little credibillity you had....




Were you there!?? No you were not..you read about them on some UFO page or some other site that agrees with your belief...

Like I said...C-R-E-D-U-L-O-U-S.

Add the CIA!

After all, they were using psychic spies for 20 years and spent $20 million on the program, not to mention the Navy's involvement in the paranormal and "Grill Flame." I assumed you didn't do any homework on the topic since you were unaware that the government was dealing in such things, but then again, doing homework is what sets us apart from skeptics who tend to find themselves in the wrong places time and again.

You see, there are things that skeptics don't know because they don't do their homework, and I do, and that is why they find themselves on the wrong side of the fence when the facts are eventually revealed, as has been the case over the years.

Do I need to list some examples to prove what I say is correct on that issue?

http://www.bautforum.com/893949-post1025.html

Now, read the correction written in red if you haven't already done so

http://members.aol.com/TPrinty/crews.html

Just some of the examples of quite a few that I have on hand on what I am talking about when the skeptics thought they were right and where a believer set the record straight with historical facts.




You call it nonsense, but the facts are, many famous people also recorded events and I listed some of them yesterday and it is no secret in the world of aviation on what took place regarding the events I mentioned, so once again, it is the skeptics who are on the wrong side of the fence because they don't bother to do their homework because if they did, they would have found that I am correct on the issues at hand as was the case with the weather balloon that never was.

The skeptics said; yes it was, and I said; no it wasn't and guess who bit the dust in that argument in 1994?
And, I have other examples just as good where the skeptics lost their battle when the facts were revealed.!




I wasn't around when during World War I either, but does that mean the war didn't happen?! You know, there is this thing known as documented h-i-s-t-o-r-y that we also have on UFOs as well and if you had follow that history, you would have found that I am correct.

I have a running history on being correct and the skeptics incorrect when the facts were eventually revealed over the past 15 years, so that is an example on where the skeptics eventually ended up----on the wrong side of the fence-of-reality!

92 pages. We come to any conclusions yet?

That's what I thought.

The conclusion was determined back during in the late 1940's courtesy of the Air Force. Major Dewey Fournet, USAF, confirmed what I have been asserting all along about ET reality and Major Donald Keyhoe was going to spill the beans on that reality on "Live" TV on CBS in 1958, but apparently, the censors pulled the audio plug and as one CBS official had later said; it was done in the interest of national security.

So there was an attempt to reveal ET reality with official documents and the plug was pulled.

Just a little hint.



The Air Force knew since the 1940's the UFOs were not ours.

I think skyeagle409 maybe right! If not we would all be zipping around in skycars and eatting all we want when we want.because a very advanced race would not want us to be advancing too quickly as too over populate and destroy this wonderful planet. ? Hum thats an oxymoron. Where`s the fault really lie? With man,thats where.we are the Aliens we are on this star ship going thru space and time,why do we insist on destroying this world? Get with it mankind! Vote for a real pres-a-dent who will put us on the right track. DONTEATUS

Yeah, we've come tot he conclusion that there is no conclusion


Thanks, GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN

Lol always the joker DONTEATUS!!!


Thanks, GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN

Did the USAF, CIA, etc. et al investigate UFOs in the 1940s & 50s? Of course they did. At the time, it wasn't known what threat, if any, they posed.

But sixty years later, we're still safe from the Menace From Beyond™. Strange, that.

As for the media continuing (at that time) to call them "Flying Saucers" in their headlines?

Gotta sell them papers, baby!


Wait'll it gets to 100! Then the stuff'll hit the fan!

The only time you have ever told us that you were right over a skeptic was about that "the air plane cant land at that airport" deal and that Roswell balloon flight, on a certain day(!?). Now two rights over a 15 year period isnt that good of a record...its quite bad. Sure, some debunkers come up with bad explanations, we all know that governments lie and cover stuff up....

That still does not change the fact that the data only shows an unidentified object.....

Your "Skyeagle vs skeptics" record is all in your mind and it proves nothing as far as evidence of aliens on Earth goes. Lets say that you were right about those two examples that you like to brag about so much...and lets say you are right about a hundred more, like them.(!)

Does that prove we are being visited.....No it does not. You keep saying "what else could it have been, (except from an alien starship)" As if that is somesort of evidence..! I suggest that you read up on the scientific method.

Bottom line, all your old documents, and your data, shows only unidentified flying objects, you dont have the data to say where said object came from. That is what you are not understanding. That is why you may want to take some general classes about science, learn what your data does and does not tell you. You make a huge assumption then pass it off as fact.

In the real world we need data so we dont need to make leaps of faith or use intuitive logic to understand the meaning of our data. The scientific method is not a tool to prove your preconceived notions. It is a way to empirically collect and analyze data. Im sorry you do not know this.

You keep saying that "this AF captain" and "that scientist" claim they are here(!)

If evidence showed a UFOs origin they would not be called "unidentified flying objects" they would be called extraterrestrial flying objects or identified flying objects. They are not. Any scientist who says, "Well the radar lets us conclude we dont know what the object is so it is ET in origin" is stating his opinion. The radar shows an object that is unidentified, thats it. The radar does not show the objects place of origin.

That is the best your "evidence" can prove, an unidentified object, beyond that you are speculating on its origin. And in your case, you use a logical fallacy to get there. That though is beside the point. I am not sure how to make this anymore clear for you. I am not sure how someone who supposedly helped create aircraft for the military could not understand the basics of scientific evidence.

You can not tell the difference between evidence and opinion.

I think hazzard is right! hum? did I already say that somewhere? well we are all right in our assumptions and guesses,thats the point.but until I fly by all of you guys in a brand new Spectro 9 plasma powered with unparticles for main drive that can do 100 times FTL then we must wait till sumptin hits the dirt here and is not a UFO,but a IFO. Good hunting all DONTEATUS

Two questions what kind of mileage do you get with a spec 9 plasma, and due they come in pink

She`s fast! I mean really fast she will do from earth to Tres4 and once around and back on one unparticle time wise its less than a second on earth. Now thats fast. even can out run the Heart of Gold hands down.

Typical response, of course, is "The [government agency] knew back then that it wasn't ours"
Personally, I'm sick of seeing that 'no-brainer' comment cited as proof of ET. It wouldn't be an Unidentified Flying Object if it was known to be ours!

Dig around if you get bored. Follow the breadcrumbs he's left and you'll eventually find him telling the skeptics at a certain errancy group that there was a global flood, and a 300'+ boat was about to be unearthed 7'500' above sea level which would silence them once and for all.
Guess what happened after the proof failed to materialise
Good for a larf.

Stan Friedman uses similar nitpicking to establish proof also. Essentially, the 'proof' is determined by diverting the focus onto the credibility of the researcher, rather than the fact that these small errors don't affect the overall lack of evidence that conclusively proves ET.


Yes he can. As long as those opinions complement his, it must be fact. Anything else needs to be ignored and the person presenting it needs to "Look at what you posted "

Flying saucers are what aircrews were reported encountering, and the newspapers were just reporting what the aircrews were saying. In fact, saucer-shaped crafts are what scientist were reporting observing, and that in addition to the weather observation folks who were also reported observing and tracking "flying saucers" even before Kenneth Arnold's sighting and not many folks knew that.

Sixty years and counting? Flying saucers have been around longer than that, according to the USAF.

Skyeagle - you have presented an enormous amount of evidence that UFOs (unidentified flying objects) exist.

Now, if only you could provide proof that some of them are extraterrestrial craft I'd be very impressed.

Hazard, you are failing!

I was right on the money in regards to the weather balloon, Project Mogul and common sense said I was also correct on the Air Force's 1997 report as well.

I was also correct that that the lighthouse was not responsible for the UFOs in regards to the Rendlesham UFO incidents and when a skeptic went to the area to see for himself, he confirmed what I have been telling the skeptics all along and that is, the lighthouse wasn't responsible, which meant the skeptics bit the dust once again, and all they had to do was to do their homework to see that there were too many obstacles between the lighthouse and the base and that the lighthouse had a light-blocking backshield between the lighting unit and the base.

Simple common sense is all it took that the lighhouse could not have been responsible and in fact, it would have been impossible! as one skeptic found out for himself. !

Then, the skeptics claimed that a security policeman in a one-year old busted-up police car, was responsible, and I told the skeptics they were wrong again. What happened next?! The guy admitted that he wasn't responsible after all.

Commno sense should have told them that there was no reason for a security policeman to be driving around in a busted-up government vehicle in the first place.

You know about the discovery of the gorilla by now and how the skeptics bit the dust when they didn't listen to the facts until I posted material and historical facts from universities and even from encyclopedias. I pulled that trick to point out the flaws in the way a closed-minded skeptic thinks and it worked because the skeptics challenged me when all they had to do was to open their encyclopedias to see that I was correct. Makes me want to go......

And, the list goes on and on, even in regards to the "Fast Walker" incident. Now, Aerojet spy satellite engineers have exposed the fact that NORAD has been tracking UFOs in space after all! That, after I told the skeptics that the object wasn't a satellite at all.



Then, let's call them what they are; metallic saucer-shaped flying objects, some larger than ships, that are capable of hypersonic flight without creating a sonic boom.

That point of all of this is; the skeptics don't bother to do their homework and that is why they tend to view the world from the wrong side of the fence time after time when the facts come rolling in.

Do I need to post some more examples just how true that is?!

These maneuvers prove that the objects are not ours.

Amongst the more common description; "flying saucer' and a hypersonic one at that, which proves that it wasn't ours and why there are those in the military who have stated for the record that the flying saucers are not ours, but then again, I posted where the Air Force made that determination a long time ago.

The engineers from Aerojet have already revealed where some were coming from; deep space. They are the folks who make surveillance satellites for NORAD.



Hazzard, in the real world, in addition to commerical and military aircrews and radar operators, we now have astronomers, scientist and engineers who have said that ET vistitation is a reality and all it takes is a little homework to see that I am corect once again.

That reminded me of when you posted a flawed photo in regards to the Rendlesham lighthouse a few months ago.

Didn't you know that I had already known from the photo you posted, it wasn't taken from the same location as the sightintg nor from the base???

Is it any wonder then, as to why I posted a close-up shot of the lighthouse in question and its light-blocking backshield along with the map of the area showing a wide area of forest between the base and the lighthouse itself???

Is it any wonder why a lighthouse supporter is now a FORMER lighthouse supporter after he visited the area?


Hazzard:

I am cutting another notch on the stock for the reason you can clearly see above!

All that shows is that they are anomalous objects. That is not proof of extraterrestrial origin (as in alien craft).

Again, you have a wealth of documentation proving that UFOs exist. What you do not have is proof that any of those sightings and recorded events has anything to do with alien space craft.

Sorry to be redundant, but is there proof that UFOs exist? Yes. Are they alien space craft? No proof whatsoever.

And as I said last time you posted this tripe- I didn't exactly read that guy as suddenly believing in sweet alien Jesus and his hypa sonic spaceship.
Except for the fact that photo was taken with a telephoto zoom lens from the search area, by a person who lives in the area.
But like most people who don't live in England, I have to rely on the person posting the picture to be honest and accurate. Personally, I don't think that person was out to decieve us.
I'm sure you've travelled to Iran, England and other places to personally verify the accuracy of all the data you've posted.
After all UFO researchers don't distort the facts at all.
Is it any wonder so many former believers grow up to be FORMER ET believers?


So? You need to be reminded that-
1. You repeatedly confuse the names Conde and Corde, in regards to Rendleshem (Clue-One of them wasn't at Rendleshem)
2. You were completely unaware (or refused to acknowledge) that Col McCoy had been involved in the recovery of a UFO (thus making the grand claim that the guy in charge of Project Sign knew nothing due to 'compartmentalisation', a little weak).
3. You also seem to believe that McCoy's statement "I CAN'T EVEN TELL YOU HOW MUCH WE WOULD GIVE TO HAVE ONE OF THOSE [UFOs] CRASH IN AN AREA SO THAT WE COULD RECOVER WHATEVER THEY ARE." (caps by Klass) was something Klass made up. Until the original document was found on project 1947, and duely posted on a Roswell thread.
4. The term 'Flying Disk/Saucer' appears as the subject header for nearly every piece of intelligence correspondence/reporting out of Germany regading the search for advanced German wing designs, esp. those of (and the search for the) Horten Brothers. Yep, they was lookin' for aliens, all right.
5. You repeatedly mention 'over 100,000 documented cases', yet can only present around 20 'good cases'. And even those fail to prove anything conclusive.
6. You mention that scientists believe in ET visitation, though the quotes you post merely state that those scientists believe that the UFO phenomenon deserves further study.
7. The no-brainers "Air Force knew they weren't ours" and "The manouvers proved they weren't ours". Well d'uh (to quote my 10 year old)! That's why they're UFOs. What else could they be? Flying doughnuts?

So how many notches does that give the rest of the audience who are genuinely interested in the subject, as opposed to just wanting to stick it to the skeptics?
Which, to you, is anybody who dares to question the validity of the flawed theory that is the Intelligently Piloted Spaceship version of the ETH...

edit: added exerpt from Klass/McCoy's Statement

How am I failing!? I dont have to prove anything. It is the one making the claim that has the burdon of proof, not me who find the data dubious.

You keep going on and on about how "the aliens are here" (and the paranormal, EVP, ESP, Bermuda triangle, among other things,) as if it was a proven fact.

Noas Ark!??


And your beloved radar numbers AGAIN....




The data you refer to, if it can be verified as being actual, proves nothing.

It does however lead to an hypothesis. We shall assume for the sake of argument, that this data is real.

So, you ask a question regarding what aircraft could perform the maneuvers described in the data....maneuvers which would exceed the design load factor of any aircraft made, and certainly the design load factors of any human being piloting such a craft. I could add, "what sort of aircraft could exceed sonic speeds and not produce a sonic boom, or apparently crash right into the ground at supersonic speeds and leave no impact crater...?"

The answer would be... None.

So, given that rather obvious answer, and of course assuming that the data is real, the question still begs,

"What was it?"

One could make an hypothesis about this observation.... "It was probably an alien spacecraft." Now, as Iv said, many times, theres nothing wrong with that hypothesis.However, it is simply that. It is an hypothesis because it hasnt been proven.

For the life of me, I cannot understand how this simple principal cannot be understood.

When it can be answered as to what it was, based upon emprical evidence and study, then we wont have an hypothesis anymore. Well have a proof.

Believing it was "alien" is useless in science, just as a consensus is similarly useless. Its just fine, but its useless. It proves nothing.

In the present case, we have NOTHING, save some radar data, again, which were assuming for the purposes of this exercise are real data. Theres nothing else. Were not analyzing a crash. Were assuming we know what "it" was based on data we assume to be real.

Without anything else, we cannot prove a thing. We have no craft, no debris, no strange weird looking bits of an alien pilot, no witnesses corroborating a crash or a strange wildly moving craft in their skies, nothing beside the radar data and alleged pilot reports, no odd-looking instruments and markings...nothing.

We have no idea what this was, if it really was anything at all. To believe it was an alien craft is not science. To insist that it was, based upon these radar numbers, is silly.



Like I said before, it doesnt matter if the entire world believe in aliens, if they arent real. Even today, 2008, there is about 2 billion people that believe that two thousand years ago the son of a carpenter could walk on water!?

Believing in God, or it was "alien", is useless in science, just as a consensus is similarly useless. Its just fine, but its useless.

It proves nothing.