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skyeagle409
QUOTE (GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN @ Apr 19 2008, 03:07 PM) *
Lol, don't care what YOU say lol tongue.gif Nah, you have a point. Skyeagle would asscociate balancing plates on those sticks with UFO's I find it amusing what skyeagle posts. skyeagle, fulfill your destiny!!!!!!!But seriously, please skyeagle say what I am going to predict you are going to say, don't be put off by THIS jedi master!!!!!! Ok, please, I don't want to search threads, please


Some skeptics were unaware that much of my information is factual and available under the FOIA, whiich pointed toward UFO reality and many were military documents.
skyeagle409
QUOTE (hazzard @ Apr 19 2008, 02:13 PM) *
I could not agree more Evangium.

Let the R word R.I.P. Its a dead end. It offers no answers..

Unless of course, you can like Skyeagle, "read between the lines". whistling2.gif


As the days, months and years wear on, released documents are proving me correct and I expect further revelations from other nations as well. So, yes, it helps to learn how to read between the lines.
skyeagle409
QUOTE (GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN @ Apr 19 2008, 11:38 AM) *
Ok, so what about Roswell, what irrefutable evidence can you provide, skyeagle about the roswell incident?


That no weather balloon nor Project Mogul balloons were involved and in fact, no classified project was involved either, but the Air Force reported that it had captured a flying saucer.

Also, it has been revealed that scientist and engineers were also observing and tracking flying saucers over the area and even documented their observations, which are available under the FOIA.

To recap, the Air Force reported the capture of a flying saucer and scientist and engineers in the area were reporting they were also observing and tracking flying saucers, in one case, observing them as they hovered 200 miles above Earth.

Facts, ALL facts!



skyeagle409
QUOTE (Evangium @ Apr 19 2008, 07:29 AM) *
Ok, please show just one post in this thread where someone said "there's no such thing as UFOs", since apparently you're the only one arguing that they're real hmm.gif


The UFOs I am talking about are those of ET, and, there are many who have encountered them, concur, and they include commercial and military pilots from around the globe.

People are talking facts, but there are those who are not listening to what is being said.



Evangium
QUOTE (skyeagle409 @ Apr 20 2008, 12:45 AM) *
The UFOs I am talking about are those of ET, and, there are many who have encountered them, concur, and they include commercial and military pilots from around the globe.

People are talking facts, but there are those who are not listening to what is being said.

Hang on a minute!? Now you're saying that nearly everyone here is not arguing that UFOs don't exist, but rather that we're not listening to the proof of ET? That's a bit of a sharp turn...

On another note, have you found that Mars thread yet? From what I remember of it, there were NASA and European Space Agency pictures of that region being posted in there..
DONTEATUS
At this point we need to keep on with the post topic and only four years to go with it we may kill two birds with one stone. Record thread post and 2012 will show that we can still post in here and enjoy the great debate of whos a true beliver in ET`s and UFO`s. I for one think therefor I am. So skyeagle the Aztec New Mexico UFO reports? that was a good one Eah? Wright Patterson AFB got all the kool toys It seems? santa.gif
Evangium
QUOTE (protostar @ Apr 20 2008, 12:08 AM) *
I would just like to add that this thread has been thoroughly enjoyable to read, not just because of the subject, but that the debate has been conducted in such a gentlemanly manner. I think both sides of the fence (as it were) have immeasurable patience to provide argument and counter argument for sooo long.
I hope this thread carries on for another 100 lol! thumbsup.gif

I just wish I knew more of the subject to contribute!

Do your home work tongue.gif
Try these links for starters-
CIA FOI UFO Files Link
The UFO 'Napster' on Physics Forum Link
The National Archieves Project Blue Book FOI Link
Project 1947 Link
SkepticReport 'The Belgian UFO Wave' (You might as well see what the other side has to say) Link
Spooky Paradigm 'Analysing Hauts Roswell Afidavit' (and then check out the rest of the blogspot, since it has a link to MUFON's journals) Link
Skeptics Info Link
Stupid UFOlogy Tricks (and follow the response and counter-response also) Link
and last but not least, my personal favourites-
The Other Side of Truth Blogspot Link
The Mangonia Supplement Link

Oh, it couldn't hurt to read up on Jacques Vallee either Link

Otherwise "LOL. Look at what you posted laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif Do your homework!" wink2.gif
DEBUNKER
QUOTE (skyeagle409 @ Apr 19 2008, 01:22 AM) *
I didn't avoid his reply!

You can review, when I am through with you!

Now, when are you going to refute the data evidence I presented that had the radar in STT mode? What is STT mode and what does it mean?

With that, why is it that since the radars of both aircraft were in STT mode, that I have stated that data depicts an alien craft?


WOW!!

We now have radar that can not only tell speed and size,etc...it can also tell the ORIGIN of the unidentified crafts!!?? w00t.gif

When did this happen!???



rofl.gif You just did it again Sky..Thanks for the laugh.
Bill Hill


Oh no.... not more homework.
Eieam Wun
I don't post here too often so I don't know if this old or if someone posted this on this thread (too lazy to read through) but what about Betty Hill who drew a map of where her supposed abductors came from a few years before all the stars in her map were known to astronomy?

Whynsos
bee
QUOTE (protostar @ Apr 19 2008, 02:08 PM) *
I would just like to add that this thread has been thoroughly enjoyable to read, not just because of the subject, but that the debate has been conducted in such a gentlemanly manner. I think both sides of the fence (as it were) have immeasurable patience to provide argument and counter argument for sooo long.
I hope this thread carries on for another 100 lol! thumbsup.gif

I just wish I knew more of the subject to contribute!


Hi there........and to add to the list of links posted earlier........

DISCLOSURE PROJECT

PROJECT CAMELOT

enjoy! thumbsup.gif

(any problems with these links.... you can do an internet search.....)




QUOTE (Bill Hill @ Apr 19 2008, 03:43 PM) *
Oh no.... not more homework.


See above......a bit more...... happy.gif



NigelTM
QUOTE (skyeagle409 @ Apr 19 2008, 01:15 AM) *
Well then, you did just what I said you had done, and that is, you proved the guy wrong by posting a list of wooden ships over 300 feet long, because he didn't believe there were wooden ships built that were over 300 feet in length. Case-closed!

Once again, you are twisting things. I did not "prove the guy wrong". I don't know who you're talking about, and I'm not even sure a debate such as you're describing ever took place! I only have your word on that, and frankly, I don't believe it, unless you can post that debate so I can read it. However, even if you can, that still doesn't erase the fact that you made a claim that ancient Egyptians had a couple of boats at least 525 feet long, and when pressed about it, can not come up with the evidence to support that claim.

If anyone in recorded history had ships that long, it surely would available somewhere on the web, don't you think? If so, I'd love to see where it is.

So be an adult and admit you were wrong. There's no shame in being wrong, you know. And just in case you're right, and can post evidence of it, I'll certainly be big enough to admit you were right. But so far, the evidence is against you.

Another question for you, Sky, which really goes back to one I've asked before: if aliens have been visiting Earth for hundreds, or even thousands, of years, why, oh why, do we need to wait for official disclosure? Surely ET could simply prove his/her/their/its existence without needing to rely on any government.

DEBUNKER
QUOTE (hazzard @ Apr 17 2008, 09:06 PM) *
DEBUNKER has a point in that last post, Sky...



You need to show us evidence Sky, beyond all other possible explanations, that there are alien spaceships on Earth. How can you be 100% sure that the UFOs you believe to be ETs arent terrestrial timetravelers from our future? Or someother "unknown exotic" explanation.

Answer... You cant be sure!

And if your not 100% sure, well then, as I see it, you are wrong and the skeptics are right.



We are waiting Skyeagle...
GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN
QUOTE (NigelTM @ Apr 19 2008, 04:37 PM) *
Once again, you are twisting things. I did not "prove the guy wrong". I don't know who you're talking about, and I'm not even sure a debate such as you're describing ever took place! I only have your word on that, and frankly, I don't believe it, unless you can post that debate so I can read it. However, even if you can, that still doesn't erase the fact that you made a claim that ancient Egyptians had a couple of boats at least 525 feet long, and when pressed about it, can not come up with the evidence to support that claim.

If anyone in recorded history had ships that long, it surely would available somewhere on the web, don't you think? If so, I'd love to see where it is.

So be an adult and admit you were wrong. There's no shame in being wrong, you know. And just in case you're right, and can post evidence of it, I'll certainly be big enough to admit you were right. But so far, the evidence is against you.

Another question for you, Sky, which really goes back to one I've asked before: if aliens have been visiting Earth for hundreds, or even thousands, of years, why, oh why, do we need to wait for official disclosure? Surely ET could simply prove his/her/their/its existence without needing to rely on any government.



Well, Nigel what did you expect? Skyeagle always twists peoples words to fit his views, it is a fact of life, that unfortunately cannot be changed sad.gif


Thanks, GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN

P.S Skyeagle, I'm waiting for a response
DEBUNKER
QUOTE (NigelTM @ Apr 19 2008, 04:37 PM) *
So be an adult and admit you were wrong. There's no shame in being wrong, you know.


A very cold day in hell.


QUOTE (NigelTM @ Apr 19 2008, 04:37 PM) *
Another question for you, Sky, which really goes back to one I've asked before: if aliens have been visiting Earth for hundreds, or even thousands, of years, why, oh why, do we need to wait for official disclosure? Surely ET could simply prove his/her/their/its existence without needing to rely on any government.


This is were skyeagle pulls out the old conspiracy/cover-up "get out of jail free card".

Funny how there seems to be this major cover-up ONLY when it doesnt "prove" his belief...other times the gov/military is leaking like a paper roof with all sorts of real, clear, scientific evidence of ET.



Strange. laugh.gif
GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN
QUOTE (DEBUNKER @ Apr 19 2008, 05:08 PM) *
A very cold day in hell.




This is were skyeagle pulls out the old conspiracy/cover-up "get out of jail free card".

Funny how there seems to be this major cover-up ONLY when it doesnt "prove" his belief...other times the gov/military is leaking like a paper roof with all sorts of real, clear, scientific evidence of ET.



Strange. laugh.gif



Well parsed Debunker, well parsed.


Thanks, GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN
bee
QUOTE (NigelTM @ Apr 19 2008, 04:37 PM) *
[Another question for you, Sky, which really goes back to one I've asked before: if aliens have been visiting Earth for hundreds, or even thousands, of years, why, oh why, do we need to wait for official disclosure? Surely ET could simply prove his/her/their/its existence without needing to rely on any government.


I know you didn't ask me the question....but I want to have a stab at it anyway.

It is a puzzle......although the number of people who have seen UFOs that MAY be ET related...
and people who claim to have been abducted....or think they might have been abducted...run into
the millions (I think)....



And.....MAYBE when nuclear weapons began being used and tested.....some ETs made themselves
known to the various governments....to try and 'sort out' a serious problem that could affect other
areas of space......or could mess up life on Earth, in a big way......for a very, very long time.

Although huge numbers of people believe that life exists somewhere 'out there'......I think they
would be shocked to find out that governments have been keeping ACTUAL contact/meetings
a secret....for 50+ years.........I know I was!

Then there's the question of technology that has been got from ETs......perhaps given/exchanged (?)
Or perhaps learnt about from crashed ET flying vehicles.

Then there's the matter of 'interdimensional travel' ...and...things about the Moon and Mars....that it
appears that some governments know about....and are actively engaged in.....in ways that....again....
may have been kept secret....for a long time.....which is not on....as the tax-payers who financed
most of it.....have been cheated out of the 'fruits' of their labour, so to speak.

So.....I'd say there is lots that could be disclosed to the general public.....but it's tricky for the
ones who have kept the secrets......because, as everyone knows.....the longer you keep a secret,
the harder it is to 'come clean'.....because the deception mounts up and up.

I have come across, in disclosure related stuff.... the possibility that the 'people' at the very top.....
those 'in the know'.....and in control of.....keeping it under wraps.....are divided about going for all
out disclosure...one lot want the public to be told....and the other lot are dead against it.

Just a few thoughts on the matter.

Oh....and maybe the ETs (who-ever-they-may-be) might show themselves in an organised way, publically
one day soon?
Or perhaps they see no need to 'prove' their existence to human-kind at the moment.

It's very hard for 'ordinary people' like myself, to figure it all out in detail....because we aren't in
possession of the full facts.




GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN
I'm still waiting Skyeagle *looks at his watch*


Thanks, GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN
DEBUNKER
QUOTE (skyeagle409 @ Apr 19 2008, 06:50 AM) *
Facts are facts, and you were on the wrong side of the fence as proven by the documents I posted.


The documents you posted means NOTHING as far as proving 100%, "beyond all other possible explanations", that ET are here. Your still avoiding the question by Hazzard...


QUOTE
How can you be 100% sure that the UFOs you believe to be ETs arent terrestrial timetravelers from our future? Or someother "unknown exotic" explanation.



Well...!?
DONTEATUS
I drew a map once x-marked the spot where I burried some of my kool kids stuff then We moved. best laid plans you know the rest. But I would like to see more on the Aztec New Mexico ufo other than whats on the internet. Like the real report. DONTEATUS disgust.gif
badeskov
QUOTE (Eieam Wun @ Apr 19 2008, 08:46 AM) *
I don't post here too often so I don't know if this old or if someone posted this on this thread (too lazy to read through) but what about Betty Hill who drew a map of where her supposed abductors came from a few years before all the stars in her map were known to astronomy?

Whynsos


Try this thread....that map means absolutely nothing.

Cheers,
Badeskov
badeskov
QUOTE (bee @ Apr 18 2008, 10:50 AM) *
It is NOW!

The internet and the Disclosure Project has changed EVERYTHING regarding 'THE SECRET'.......


By all means of respect, but it has changed about..uhm..nothing...it has turned out to be a joke and has by far outlived itself!

Cheers,
Badeskov
badeskov
QUOTE (skyeagle409 @ Apr 18 2008, 05:58 PM) *
Yes, and how about trying your hand at refuting the data. Since you are a helicopter pilot, what does MSL and SL have to do with the object's altitude over a certain location, which was read on radar in STT mode as; "0000 Break Lock?"


That radar data still doesn't prove anything. We have no way of knowing what it was that was tracked. We just know something was tracked. And what does STT (Single Target Track for the uninitiated) have to do with anything in this case? It just shows that it was something that it could lock onto, be it ET, pink elephants or a freak atmospheric phenomena.

As we only have the data and can't redo the "experiment", it doesn't mean anything. Even if ET was proven to be flitting our skies, it still wouldn't mean anything, it could still be pink elephants or a freak atmospheric phenomena. We simply do not know.

Cheers,
Badeskov
bee
QUOTE (badeskov @ Apr 19 2008, 08:34 PM) *
By all means of respect, but it has changed about..uhm..nothing...it has turned out to be a joke and has by far outlived itself!


Has it really?

The magnitude of what is being disclosed and the implications are difficult to dismiss....try as you might.

People are still only just getting to hear about it.

I see it as a snowball that is gathering momentum.

What the results of the Disclosure Project becoming more widely known will be.....I don't know.

But people must make up their own minds.......as to what it all means......and to do that, they should

(if they choose to) watch it and related material for themselves......not believe second-hand opinion about

it.........from you.......or.........from me.


badeskov
QUOTE (DEBUNKER @ Apr 17 2008, 11:25 AM) *
You favorite "evidence"... again.


We have all been through this before Sky. There is no way to even prove that these numbers are real.. and that means...we cant use this as evidence of aliens flying around. If indeed real...For all we know it could have been lots of things.... even timetraveler from the future. laugh.gif

Prove me wrong!


Indeed, in my honest opinion such data is much more indicative of an atmospheric phenomena than it is of ET. While we have no way of even trying to understand the mind-set of ET at this point, I don't really see the point of such maneuvers. I have heard the argument that such are evasive maneuvers, but to me that is complete BS. If ET wanted to evade he/she/it would use the acceleration and speed that is obviously possible and just bugger off, leaving any pursuing aircraft far behind and find another good spot to hover (and mutilate cows and abduct people for obscure experiments or making crop circles - whatever makes their boat float). No need for a highly erratic trajectory or to "hit the deck" in order to evade. It is just self contradictory.

Cheers,
Badeskov
badeskov
QUOTE (bee @ Apr 19 2008, 01:56 PM) *
Has it really?

The magnitude of what is being disclosed and the implications are difficult to dismiss....try as you might.

People are still only just getting to hear about it.

I see it as a snowball that is gathering momentum.

What the results of the Disclosure Project becoming more widely known will be.....I don't know.

But people must make up their own minds.......as to what it all means......and to do that, they should

(if they choose to) watch it and related material for themselves......not believe second-hand opinion about

it.........from you.......or.........from me.



Hi Bee, while this is not the thread to discuss the disclosure project I will comment on that briefly (I hope Hazzard will forgive this slight deviation;)). From their website:

QUOTE

The Disclosure Project is a nonprofit research project working to fully disclose the facts about UFOs, extraterrestrial intelligence, and classified advanced energy and propulsion systems. We have over 400 government, military, and intelligence community witnesses testifying to their direct, personal, first hand experience with UFOs, ETs, ET technology, and the cover-up that keeps this information secret.




First hand experience?! Why is it that there has been nothing coming forth?! For such information there are really only two options:

1) The information is not classified. Well, then we would know about it already, right? And we'd all have flying cars or whatever. I think we can rule that out.
2) The information is classified. In that case, the sole affiliation with such a project would have dire consequences for the folks involved as one would presume that they would be under strict non-disclosure and the project would have a very limited number of people not in jail. Not to mention that such people tend to take their work very seriously and not let their mouth run. That kind of rules out that possibility as well.

So what do they have?! Absolutely nothing. The disclosure project is, simply put, a vehicle to further Mr. Greer's ambitions.

Finally, why is it that the first item one hits in their online store is Mr. Greer's autobiography and, of all things, a meditation CD?! It simply reeks of manure. It preys on the gullible.

Cheers,
Badeskov
bee
QUOTE (badeskov @ Apr 19 2008, 10:11 PM) *
It preys on the gullible.



Well SOMEONE is certainly preying on the gullible...?

Again....people should make their own minds up about WHO exactly this is.

While this thread isn't specifically about the Disclosure Project.......the 400+ people involved.....
many of whom were high-ranking military personel with 'inside' knowledge and had top secret clearance
.....probably are the best evidence for aliens on earth.....that the 'ordinary' person has right now.

Unless they have their own personel experiences.

The more desperate people get to dismiss and debunk the Disclosure Project the more sure I am
that it is all true......the methods and psychological manipulations that are used, are so obvious to me.
I almost wish they weren't, because it changes the forum experience from an innocent, fun passtime..
to something altogether more sinister......and THAT is me speaking from the heart.

There is something really rotten about deception.....(and I'm not talking about Greer) It taints and poisons
what should be clean and good.

If, at the end of the day.....the most meaniful thing we can aspire to is the integrated wholeness....then we
should all examine what our motives are for what we say and do. I believe in re-incarnation and karma.
If I am right in my belief......and I say IF.....then......well......I think you are an intelligent person....and
you will get my drift.....I don't have to spell it out.

Basically......we're all on the same side.......AREN'T WE....?


skyeagle409
QUOTE (badeskov @ Apr 19 2008, 10:11 PM) *
Hi Bee, while this is not the thread to discuss the disclosure project I will comment on that briefly (I hope Hazzard will forgive this slight deviation;)). From their website:
[/size][/font]

First hand experience?! Why is it that there has been nothing coming forth?!


Actulally, in some of those cases, official documents have already been released to the general public under the FOIA which verified the accounts of the witnesses.

QUOTE
For such information there are really only two options:

1) The information is not classified.


Not anymore since the documents are available under the FOIA. In fact, the San Francisco Chronicle covered a story several years ago from the National Archives where they revealed that they were then, releasing declassified government UFO files.

QUOTE
So what do they have?! Absolutely nothing.


False! For an example, coverage on the JAL incident was called in AlaskA and data and communication tapes were sent to Washington D.C. for analysis and the conclusion was, the incident occured as reported.

In fact, Japan covered the story of the JAL encounter not long ago.

In that regard, the Disclosure Project was right on the money and the witnesses are willing to testify under oath before Congress, so yes, the Disclosure Project produced valid results since you can verify their accounts using the FOIA.
badeskov
QUOTE (badeskov @ Apr 19 2008, 01:59 PM) *
Indeed, in my honest opinion such data is much more indicative of an atmospheric phenomena than it is of ET. While we have no way of even trying to understand the mind-set of ET at this point, I don't really see the point of such maneuvers. I have heard the argument that such are evasive maneuvers, but to me that is complete BS. If ET wanted to evade he/she/it would use the acceleration and speed that is obviously possible and just bugger off, leaving any pursuing aircraft far behind and find another good spot to hover (and mutilate cows and abduct people for obscure experiments or making crop circles - whatever makes their boat float). No need for a highly erratic trajectory or to "hit the deck" in order to evade. It is just self contradictory.

Cheers,
Badeskov


Please allow me to elaborate a bit on the above. To take an example, an F-16 use a pulse dobbler radar using a set of 6 (?) wavelengths in the ~1.5 to ~4cm range, which means that they have a fairly high resolution. To eliminate atmospheric clutter, a number of dobbler filters are used. The problem is that to design such one needs to have exact knowledge of what is to be eliminated. Which we to a very large extent have. But what if some rare, atmospheric phenomena existed that actually would behave just like an aircraft, motion and radar return, except having abilities beyond those capable by mankind? Well, that is something we cannot filter out, as then we would filter out valid radar returns as well.

Guess what, such actually do exist and while rare, have been rather extensively documented. I am, of course, refering to what is known as the Hessdalen phenomena. From this report I will quote:

Page 24:
QUOTE
Sometimes the light phenomenon, which appears very often several tens of meters over the top of the hills, shows a jerky motion along very short
distances (d < 100 m), with an almost instantaneous movement from one point to another.


So it exhibits erratic trajectories.

Page 26:
QUOTE
The light phenomenon is often accompanied by a pulsating magnetic perturbation with a period of few Hz and by small and very-short-duration pulsating ‘‘spikes’’ in the HF radio ranges (Strand, 1985).


So it can emit magnetic pulses, which can certainly interfere with radar and communication systems (sounds familiar?).

Page 26:
QUOTE
The light phenomenon often shows strong radar tracks, including when it is optically faint or almost invisible. In some cases in which it is visible, it shows no radar track (Strand, 1985).


So it can definitely show up on radar.

Page 26:
QUOTE
The light phenomenon shows a photo-reactive capability when a laser beam is aimed at it, systematically doubling its pulsation rate (Strand, 1985, 2000).


And it reacts to external stimuli in the form of energy. It can also move very fast and show incredible rates of acceleration (bottom, page 22):

QUOTE
it is possible from the measured frequency to determine the velocity of the emitting source, which changes rapidly (i.e., within several seconds) by a factor of 10 from 10,000 Km/sec up to 100,000 Km/sec.


And now it gets really weird (page 19):

QUOTE
Approximately 5% of the sightings during the three EMBLA missions were characterized by light phenomena of geometric or symmetric shape (see Fig.
10). Such shapes can form in two ways: a) the more standard light balls join together in a sort of geometrical arrangement, often triangular (see Fig. 5), which
tends to dissipate over a period of 5–30 seconds; cool.gif some very-low-brightness objects, often with translucent characteristics and of constant brightness, appear
suddenly low in the sky or very close to the trees showing intrinsically geometric shapes, mostly triangular or ellipsoidal (Teodorani et al., 2000; Teodorani et al.,
2001; Teodorani & Nobili, 2002). Rectangular shapes have been recorded as well (see Figs. 5, 10): in this case radiant power was very high and the top of
the ID was saturated. The reason for these shapes is totally unknown.


Emphasis mine. Not only do such phenomena have erratic trajectorier, move fast, have high acceleration capabilities and react to external stimuli, they can also be rectangular. Or have other geometric shapes. Sounds familiar?!

Thus such atmospheric phenomena actually exist and are known. It that what has been tracked by various radars? We don't know, but we can't rule it out. And in my honest opinion it is vastly more probable compared to ET blazing around. I just don't see how we can rule such out.

Cheers,
Badeskov
skyeagle409
QUOTE (badeskov @ Apr 19 2008, 09:56 PM) *
Please allow me to elaborate a bit on the above. To take an example, an F-16 use a pulse dobbler radar using a set of 6 (?) wavelengths in the ~1.5 to ~4cm range, which means that they have a fairly high resolution.


Pulse-doppler radar is used in air intercept radars of some aircraft and even in some air-to-air missiles and based on that fact, there are some maneuvers that can be used to break-lock on pulse-doppler radars in STT mode, but not against continuous-wave radars.

The UFO in question, used unconventional maneuvering methods to break the lock-on of both F-16s, which are imposible for any aircraft to mimic. In addiition, dissimilar ground-based radars also track the UFO as well and they were not the same type of radar that are used by the F-16, which simply means that the UFO was in fact an intelligently controlled craft as verified by both, airborne and ground-based radars.

When in STT mode, the radar locks onto that one target only and the radar ascertains tons of data on the object it captured with its claws and displays the information for the pilot.

QUOTE
Thus such atmospheric phenomena actually exist and are known. It that what has been tracked by various radars? We don't know, but we can't rule it out.


The lead pilot of the F-16 excluded weather and the characteristics of the radar data and the specifics of the encounter exludes any weather-related phenomena as well, and remember, the radar the F-16 uses is an all-weather radar system.

To sum it up, weather was found not to be a factor in the radar contacts of multiple airborne and ground-based radars and why a professor who is an expert in radar technology had stated on video I posted months ago, that he was leaning on the side of an extraterestrial encounter..

Weather was never a factor in any of the UFO case files I posted and why they remain unexplained to this very day. In fact, the Air Force said in its 1969 scientific study, that such phenomena cannot cause the kind of UFO incidents I posted.
REBEL
QUOTE (skyeagle409 @ Apr 20 2008, 07:23 AM) *
Actulally, in some of those cases, official documents have already been released to the general public under the FOIA which verified the accounts of the witnesses.



Not anymore since the documents are available under the FOIA. In fact, the San Francisco Chronicle covered a story several years ago from the National Archives where they revealed that they were then, releasing declassified government UFO files.



False! For an example, coverage on the JAL incident was called in AlaskA and data and communication tapes were sent to Washington D.C. for analysis and the conclusion was, the incident occured as reported.

In fact, Japan covered the story of the JAL encounter not long ago.

In that regard, the Disclosure Project was right on the money and the witnesses are willing to testify under oath before Congress, so yes, the Disclosure Project produced valid results since you can verify their accounts using the FOIA.


Having said that SE, I think badeskov's point (correct me if i'm wrong here) Why hasn't it been made public, as in like on CNN/NBC/CBS/ABC/BBC/UFO ya know the more *cough cough* (excuse me) honest mainstream television networks...Say for instant, with Georgie Boy making some kinda public announcement, maybe even shaking hands with the ETs before leaving office at the next federal election or something, 'if it's all so well known'?...
badeskov
QUOTE (skyeagle409 @ Apr 19 2008, 03:28 PM) *
Pulse-doppler radar is used in air intercept radars of some aircraft and even in some air-to-air missiles and based on that fact, there are some maneuvers that can be used to break-lock on pulse-doppler radars in STT mode, but not against continuous-wave radars.


What does continues wave radar have to do with anything here?! Acquisition type radars are pulsed simply because of the need for distance discrimination, so I don't really see what relevance continuous wave radar have on this.

QUOTE
The UFO in question, used unconventional maneuvering methods to break the lock-on of both F-16s, which are imposible for any aircraft to mimic. In addiition, dissimilar ground-based radars also track the UFO as well and they were not the same type of radar that are used by the F-16, which simply means that the UFO was in fact an intelligently controlled craft as verified by both, airborne and ground-based radars.


Nobody is suggesting that it wasn't captured on radar. The question is what it was and in my post I referred to an atmospheric phenomena that acts just like you have described. So how can we exclude atmospheric events?! We simply can't. And I am still baffled as to why, if it was ET, ET simply didn't just speed away instead of going through the evasive maneuver charade first.

And how you can even make the leap that it is intelligently controlled just because it was captured on several radars is beyond me. Especially because of the reference to the aforementioned atmospheric phenomena mimicking such behavior.

QUOTE
When in STT mode, the radar locks on to that one target only and the radar ascertains tons of data on the object it captured with its claws.


So?! That data still doesn't tell us what it is that has been acquired. And some atmospheric phenomena will act just as described in this case.

QUOTE
The lead pilot of the F-16 excluded weather


The pilot can only exclude known atmospheric phenomena, correct?! Or do we have the oracle of Delphi piloting planes?!

QUOTE
and the characteristics of the radar data and the specifics of the encounter exludes any weather-related phenomena as well, and remember, the radar the F-16 uses is an all-weather radar system.


Wrong! Please let me re-iterate:

QUOTE
To eliminate atmospheric clutter, a number of dobbler filters are used. The problem is that to design such one needs to have exact knowledge of what is to be eliminated.


How do you exclude something that is very hard to predict and in any case resembles what an aircraft would do, except just faster?! You simply can't.

Cheers,
Badeskov
badeskov
QUOTE (skyeagle409 @ Apr 19 2008, 03:28 PM) *
Weather was never a factor in any of the UFO case files I posted and why they remain unexplained to this very day. In fact, the Air Force said in its 1969 scientific study, that such phenomena cannot cause the kind of UFO incidents I posted.


Nonsense, pardon my candor. How can you exclude weather phenomena that you don't know about?! And the McDonald study is absolutely irrelevant as that pertains to temperature inversion, which I certainly agree it wasn't. That is a completely different beast all together.

Cheers,
Badeskov

Edited for typo.
skyeagle409
QUOTE (REBEL @ Apr 19 2008, 10:46 PM) *
Having said that SE, I think badeskov's point (correct me if i'm wrong here) Why hasn't it been made public, as in like on CNN/NBC/CBS/ABC/BBC/UFO ya know the more *cough cough* (excuse me) honest mainstream television networks...


Three letters that a senior FAA official cited! C-I-A.

But eventually, the incident became public regardless and why Japan covered the story again on December 8. 2006. In fact, it became known when UFO skeptic, Phil Klass and CSICOP sought to explain away the UFO as Mars and Jupiter and when they found that those planets were not responsible, they then claim ice clouds were responsible, but meterological conditions proved them wrong again and as one United Airlines pilot stated; "you can see into next Tuesday."

The JAL incident is now a classic on the UFO arena and the pilot was eventually grounded for reporting his encounter and that is one of the reasons why most UFO aerial encounters are not reported.
badeskov
QUOTE (REBEL @ Apr 19 2008, 03:46 PM) *
Having said that SE, I think badeskov's point (correct me if i'm wrong here) Why hasn't it been made public, as in like on CNN/NBC/CBS/ABC/BBC/UFO ya know the more *cough cough* (excuse me) honest mainstream television networks...Say for instant, with Georgie Boy making some kinda public announcement, maybe even shaking hands with the ETs before leaving office at the next federal election or something, 'if it's all so well known'?...


You are correct in your assertion, Reb thumbsup.gif The problem is that given the allegedly incredible pool of people the Disclosure Project have in their fold, the outcome has been, to put it mildly, rather disappointing.

Oh, sure they have been getting some information through the Freedom of Information Act, but why is it that these people with their first hand experience of ET hasn't gone to the big news stations with their information if they really wanted to get it out?! And the argument that they are afraid of getting discredited just doesn't fly. If they had such information, they could decribe technology way beyond us in a way so it could actually be made and tested (and it would not sound ludicrous to scientists). Secondly, if the Government wanted to keep it secret, they don't discredit, they arrest.

That project is just a load of BS in my opinion (yes, I still cannot even begin to fathom how a project with such a grand goal, which in itself is absolutely and utterly ground breaking if there was anything to it, would sell autobiographies and meditation CDs).

Cheers,
Badeskov
skyeagle409
QUOTE (badeskov @ Apr 19 2008, 10:50 PM) *
Nonsense, pardon my candor. How can you exclude weather phenomena that you don't know about?!


Oh yes I can and the prove is in the fact that those case files remain unexplained to this very day after they were examined scientifically.

QUOTE
And the McDonald study is absolutely irrelevant as that pertains to temperature inversion, which I certainly agree it wasn't.


Dr. James McDonald is one of the folks who scoffed at the Air Force's explanation that temperture inversion was responsible for the 1952 Washington D.C. UFO incidents and in 1969, the Air Force study concurred. that such phenomena cannot cause the kind of UFO incdents I mentioned.

In fact, I posted comments from Dr. McDonald and I am going to repost what he had said.
badeskov
QUOTE (skyeagle409 @ Apr 19 2008, 04:06 PM) *
Oh yes I can and the prove is in the fact that those case files remain unexplained to this very day after they were examined scientifically.


Emphasis mine! Exactly, they are unexplained and I have no problem whatsoever with that. That also means that while it could be ET, it could probably also be a whole host of other things.

That is the scientific approach, the underlying data simply doesn't support any conclusion at this point in time.

QUOTE
Dr. James McDonald is one of the folks who scoffed at the Air Force's explanation that temperture inversion was responsible for the 1952 Washington D.C. UFO incidents and in 1969, the Air Force study concurred. that such phenomena cannot cause the kind of UFO incdents I mentioned.

In fact, I posted comments from Dr. McDonald and I am going to repost what he had said.


I completely agree. And it is completely and utterly irrelevant. Temperature inversion has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, nobody has said anything about that. And I, for one, can certainly not see how temperature inversion can cause anything like this. But other phenomena can, phenomena that Dr. McDonald had no idea of even existed at that point in time.

Thus, we can't really use that report for anything as I see it.

Cheers,
Badeskov
skyeagle409
QUOTE (Evangium @ Apr 19 2008, 03:32 PM) *
Do your home work tongue.gif
Try these links for starters-
CIA FOI UFO Files Link
The UFO 'Napster' on Physics Forum Link
The National Archieves Project Blue Book FOI Link
Project 1947 Link
SkepticReport 'The Belgian UFO Wave' (You might as well see what the other side has to say) Link
Spooky Paradigm 'Analysing Hauts Roswell Afidavit' (and then check out the rest of the blogspot, since it has a link to MUFON's journals) Link
Skeptics Info Link
Stupid UFOlogy Tricks (and follow the response and counter-response also) Link
and last but not least, my personal favourites-
The Other Side of Truth Blogspot Link
The Mangonia Supplement Link

Oh, it couldn't hurt to read up on Jacques Vallee either Link


Thanks.

Now, how about releasing the results of what happened after the intelligence services were taken to court.

Over the years afterwards, UFO-related documents the intelligence services claimed they never had, surfaced. laugh.gif laugh.gif grin2.gif



Over the years afterwards, documents the intelligence services claimed they never had, surfaced. laugh.gif laugh.gif grin2.gif
skyeagle409
QUOTE (badeskov @ Apr 19 2008, 11:14 PM) *
Emphasis mine! Exactly, they are unexplained and I have no problem whatsoever with that. That also means that while it could be ET, it could probably also be a whole host of other things.


Let's put it like this to clarify things.

A metallic, saucer-shaped object larger than ships, zooms away at hypersonic speed and not leave behind any sonic boom, and the object was confirmed visually and backed by ground-base and airborne radars, and dissimilar ground-based radars at that.

Now, do we have such a craft in our closet? If not, then the object was not ours.

hazzard
QUOTE
Approximately 5% of the sightings during the three EMBLA missions were characterized by light phenomena of geometric or symmetric shape (see Fig.
10). Such shapes can form in two ways: a) the more standard light balls join together in a sort of geometrical arrangement, often triangular (see Fig. 5), which
tends to dissipate over a period of 5–30 seconds; some very-low-brightness objects, often with translucent characteristics and of constant brightness, appear
suddenly low in the sky or very close to the trees showing intrinsically geometric shapes, mostly triangular or ellipsoidal (Teodorani et al., 2000; Teodorani et al.,
2001; Teodorani & Nobili, 2002). Rectangular shapes have been recorded as well (see Figs. 5, 10): in this case radiant power was very high and the top of
the ID was saturated. The reason for these shapes is totally unknown.


QUOTE
Emphasis mine. Not only do such phenomena have erratic trajectorier, move fast, have high acceleration capabilities and react to external stimuli, they can also be rectangular.

Or have other geometric shapes. Sounds familiar?!

Thus such atmospheric phenomena actually exist and are known. It that what has been tracked by various radars? We don't know, but we can't rule it out. And in my honest opinion it is vastly more probable compared to ET blazing around. I just don't see how we can rule such out.

Cheers,
Badeskov



Brilliant.

Could it have been ET, maybe... but the most logical explanation to skyeagles radar numbers is the atmospheric phenomena.

Thanks for posting B.
badeskov
QUOTE (skyeagle409 @ Apr 19 2008, 04:21 PM) *
Let's put it like this to clarify things.

A metallic, saucer-shaped object larger than ships, zooms away at hypersonic speed and not leave behind any sonic boom, and the object was confirmed visually and backed by ground-base and airborne radars, and dissimilar ground-based radars at that.

Now, do we have such a craft in our closet? If not, then the object was not ours.


Oh, I am sure it wasn't ours. But since we have atmospheric phenomena that:

* Exhibit high acceleration rates
* Can move at hypersonic velocities (without sonic booms)
* Show up on radar
* Have geometrical shapes (even rectangular)
* Comes in a lot of different shades and colors

Where does that leave us?

Cheers,
Badeskov
skyeagle409
QUOTE (badeskov @ Apr 19 2008, 10:48 PM) *


You mentioned Dr. Mcdonald, and read what he had to say.

QUOTE

UFOs - EXTRATERRESTRIAL PROBES?
Astronautics and Aeronautics,
James E. McDonald

On the basis of an intensive study of the UFO problem, I believe that the extraterrestrial origin hypothesis must now be given extremely serious scientific attention.


QUOTE
What does continues wave radar have to do with anything here?!


You just revealed to me with that comment that you do not know very much about this incident in regards to radars and UFOs.
Stellar
QUOTE
Apparently, that is not what the data is depicting nor what the Belgian Air Force had said in at its international press confernece where it depicted the data I just posted.


Did the Belgian air force say they saw an alien?

QUOTE
That is a very good question! Why did they retain 3 psychic spies after 20 years?


Out of how many?

QUOTE
Acutally, there were results and common sense indicates that apparently, the results could have been as bad as one would think after 20 whole years the program was carried on and retention of 3 other psychic spys after all of those years.


Yet the program was shut down? Why?

QUOTE
IN other words, if the results were as bad as you think, the program would not have been allowed to go on for 20 years nor would they have retained those 3 employees.


In other words, if the results were as good as you think, the program would not have been shut down after 20 years nor would it have fired most of their employees.

merril
I watched part of a talk, the other day, given by a Canadian lawyer. Even though he is a graduate of Yale, he asserts, among other things, the U.S. is trying to take over the solar system...

People in private and governmental jobs make statements, the clarity of which may be clouded by the circumstances and conditions at hand.

After WWII, who is to say the cover stops were not let out, from time to time? To this day, various events, all of which probably point back to people and planet Earth, might have been used for obfuscation or misleading counter-intelligence. Or, even cheap movies. Or, even moments of self-delusion.

Yet, it seems that the public, in its infinite creativity, has outrun the government's explanations for so-called UFOs. The mention of "A Long-Term Scientific Survey of the Hessdalen Phenomenon" is interesting.

badeskov
QUOTE (hazzard @ Apr 19 2008, 04:27 PM) *
Brilliant.

Could it have been ET, maybe... but the most logical explanation to skyeagles radar numbers is the atmospheric phenomena.

Thanks for posting B.


Thanks Hazz,

Your opinion are, as always, very much appreciated! Sorry for barging in like this into the middle of the discussion, though - but things have been kinda busy in my end wink2.gif

Cheers,
Badeskov

Edited for typo.
skyeagle409
QUOTE (badeskov @ Apr 19 2008, 11:27 PM) *
Oh, I am sure it wasn't ours. But since we have atmospheric phenomena that:

* Exhibit high acceleration rates
* Can move at hypersonic velocities (without sonic booms)
* Show up on radar
* Have geometrical shapes (even rectangular)
* Comes in a lot of different shades and colors

Where does that leave us?

Cheers,
Badeskov


But, the experts said that atmosphere phenomena had nothing to do with any of the UFO case files I presented, which explains why they are still unexplained in terrestrial terms to this very day despite extensive scientific scrutiny.

I am very sure that this object is not the result of any atmospheric phenomena. Based on the differences in imagery of the 3 outboad lights, can you tell me what the UFO was doing at the time this photo was taken?

linked-image
badeskov
QUOTE (skyeagle409 @ Apr 19 2008, 04:29 PM) *
You mentioned Dr. Mcdonald, and read what he had to say.


Yes, because you mentioned the 1969 report, which could really only refer to Dr. McDonald. But we can let that rest as I think we agree that temperature inversion had nothing to do with it.

And I am sure that the ET hypothesis has been given ample thought and been discarded.

QUOTE
You just revealed to me with that comment that you do not know very much about this incident in regards to radars and UFOs.


Not sure where you get that from. I was refereing specifically to the F-16 airborne platform and especially the STT radar mode, which is why I was wondering about the continuous wavelength radar reference. But I am sorry if I misunderstood you. Please do enlighten me original.gif

Cheers,
Badeskov
badeskov
QUOTE (skyeagle409 @ Apr 19 2008, 04:32 PM) *
But, the experts said that atmosphere phenomena had nothing to do with any of the UFO case files I presented, which explains why they are still unexplained in terrestrial terms to this very day despite extensive scientific scrutiny.


Now I am feeling uninformed. Which experts would those be? Could you point me to a reference that I can read somewhere?

QUOTE
I am very sure that this object is not the result of any atmospheric phenomena. Based on the differences in imagery of the 3 outboad lights, can you tell me what the UFO was doing at the time this photo was taken?

<snipped image>


I agree, this is certainly not an atmospheric phenomena. The problem with the Belgian UFO ti me is that it is shrouded in so much doubt that it is hard to verify the images and data presented. I honestly can't give an explanation, and it is not due to a lack of urge to actually do so.

Cheers,
Badeskov
GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN
Still no response skyeagle, this is just adding to evidence that you cherrypick posts!!


Thanks, GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN
Evangium
QUOTE (skyeagle409 @ Apr 20 2008, 09:14 AM) *
Thanks.

Now, how about releasing the results of what happened after the intelligence services were taken to court.

Over the years afterwards, UFO-related documents the intelligence services claimed they never had, surfaced. laugh.gif laugh.gif grin2.gif



Over the years afterwards, documents the intelligence services claimed they never had, surfaced. laugh.gif laugh.gif grin2.gif

I didn't want to scare the poor guy off UFOs, completely. How big is Blue Book, alone? At least a few weeks of skimming, isn't it? Not something you can just read through in twenty minutes...
And I'm sure if he does get through his 'homework', he will eventually find that class action you're refering to...
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