So the military are aware of alien visitation but has done nothing to acquire more detailed info about them? They would have put a good effort to develop technology capable of detecting this ufos, at this time we should had seen some advancement with military machinery, but there is none.

I thnk I said it before, it goes beyond belief, but one of reality!.



The data evidence as presented by the Belgian Ari Force was extraordinary in itself, not to mention the international press conference of the Air Fore, which was also extraordinary. Add to the extraordinary events over Belgian, then you have something that was very extraordinary.



Of course I do, and so do thousands of other folks that comprise of, and here we go again, the folks who are stating that based on their encoutners and evidence that supports their claims, ET visitation is a fact.

* Commercial and military pilots, worldwide

* Astronauts and cosmonauts

* Radar operators, worldwide

* Scientist and engineers

* Astronomers

* Senior military and intelligence officials, worldwide

* Other military officers and enlisted personnel

* Police officials, worldwide

* Milliions of other people around the globe

Not to mention that the U. S. Air Force has already stated that ET vistiation is a fact, so there you have it.

It is just a matter of understanding what goes on around the world and living in a world of denial is what gets closed-minded skeptics into trouble when the facts are revealed and I can post many such examples if you want me to do so!

I was watching an interesting show on the Discovery channel about Nick Pope and his job with the M.O.D. in England........

Apparently he had to investigate all UFO sightings/reports that the public reported and after a few years in the job, concluded that 98% (or roundabout) of reports were identified and a small percentage were unexplained......

The show highlighted one particular case where a British airforce plane spotted and tracked on radar an object which they couldn't identify......It was Pope's job to ring around and try to locate the source of the aircraft, whether it was American , Russian or their own......Apparently, when he contacted the US, they also wanted info on this particular UFO, as they had tracked it as well.....So it turned out that it didn't belong to either country, it wasn't a top-secret experimental aircraft and he actually stated in his report, 'Unknown aircraft and unknown source'.........

So there you go.....An actual UFO as far as I'm concerned......I wish I could provide links but I'm not that computer-savvy.....

Lakenheath 1956: A UK Radar-Visual UFO Classic
Gordon D. Thayer, Journal of Astronautics and Aeronautics; September 1971, UFO Subcommittee of the AIAA

Summary: with two highly redundant contacts -- the first with ground radar, combined with both ground and airborne visual observers, and the second with airborne radar, an airborne visual observer, and two different ground radars -- the Bentwaters-Lakenheath UFO incident represents one of the most significant radar-visual UFO cases.

Account of Observations
The four events at Bentwaters GCA took this order:

1. At 21:30Z a URE (No.1 in map) was picked up on the Bentwaters AN/MPN-11A GCA radar about 25-30 mi. to the ESE. (Note that Z time -- zero meridian time --, or GMT, is also local time in the Lakenheath-Bentwaters area.) This URE moved steadily on a constant azimuth heading of 295 deg until contact was lost about 15-20 mi. to the WNW of Bentwaters. The radar operator estimated the apparent speed of the URE as 4,000 mph; but the transit time of 30 sec yields an estimate of 4,800-6,000 mph, and the operator's estimate of 5-6 mi. covered by the URE between PPI sweeps (2 sec apart) gives an estimate of 9,000-10,800 mph. "The size of the blip when picked up was that of a normal aircraft target. [It] diminished in size and intensity to the vanishing point before crossing the entire radar screen."


http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc629.htm

http://youtube.com/watch?v=I9p0elOxVtI&feature=related

So what? The bloody president of USA Mr Bush and hes pimps said there was arms of mass destruction in iraq, even nuculear weapons, they found none and killed hundreds of iraqis for nothing. Now they are praised by millions of americans who believe in this crusade against the evil... sometimes people are just idiotic.

...with such advanced technology as demonstarted visually...

But not so advanced in material processing - we have composite materials (e.g. Boeing Dreamliner), whilst they're lurking around in polished tin cans decorated as Weihnachtsbaums

US Military are using smart metals similar to those found at the Roswell Crash In 1947

http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/morphingmetals.html

________________________________________________________________

The Right Stuff for Super Spaceships

Tomorrow's spacecraft will be built using advanced materials with mind-boggling properties.

Revolutions in technology--like the Industrial Revolution that replaced horses with cars--can make what seems impossible today commonplace tomorrow.

Such a revolution is happening right now. Three of the fastest-growing sciences of our day--biotech, nanotech, and information technology--are converging to give scientists unprecedented control of matter on the molecular scale. Emerging from this intellectual gold-rush is a new class of materials with astounding properties that sound more at home in a science fiction novel than on the laboratory workbench.

Imagine, for example, a substance with 100 times the strength of steel, yet only 1/6 the weight; materials that instantly heal themselves when punctured; surfaces that can "feel" the forces pressing on them; wires and electronics as tiny as molecules; structural materials that also generate and store electricity; and liquids that can instantly switch to solid and back again at will. All of these materials exist today

______________________________________________________________________

Rubber Metal"

Popular Science, August 2004

"Smart skin" holds promise for morphing wings and wearable computers.

Terrible, horrible things can be done to this millimeters-thick patch of shimmering material crafted by chemists at NanoSonic in Blacksburg, Virginia. Twist it, stretch it double, fry it to 200°C, douse it with jet fuel the stuff survives. After the torment, it snaps like rubber back to its original shape, all the while conducting electricity like solid metal. "Any other material would lose its conductivity," says Jennifer Hoyt Lalli, NanoSonic's director of nanocomposites.

_____________________________________________________________________

DISCOVER Magazine, Vol. 25 No. 04, April 2004

Glassy Metals

Harder, stronger, and better--the material of the future

The wispy metal strip in my hands is 8 inches long, 1 inch wide, and as thin as aluminum foil. "Try to tear it," says William Johnson, a materials science professor at Caltech in Pasadena. I pull first gently, but soon with all my might. No go.

"See if you can cut this," suggests Johnson's postgraduate assistant Jason Kang, handing me a mirror-bright piece of the same metal. It's an inch long, a quarter inch wide, and thinner than a dime. I bear down with a heavy-duty pair of wire cutters. The metal will not cut. I try again, squeezing with both hands until my fingers ache. Nothing.

A steel sphere dropped on a rigid plate of amorphous metal bounces like a rubber Super Ball. Conventional metals would dent as the crystals that compose them dislocate. But the plate--an alloy of zirconium, titanium, nickel, copper, and beryllium--has no crystals. Any atoms in the alloy that are displaced under impact quickly snap all the way back, enabling the sphere to continue bouncing with very little loss of energy.

It's all astounding, yet oddly familiar. In the typical science fiction film circa 1950, there's that scene in which scientists return from the just-landed flying saucer and tell the Army brass that no tool known to humankind can cut, burn, bend, or otherwise scar the hull. But the metal in front of me is decidedly terrestrial in origin



What was described many years before memory metals became known.



MAJOR JESSE MARCEL


(H&M, FUFOR, 1979 television interview) "[There were] many bits of metallic foil, that looked like, but was not, aluminum, for no matter how often one crumpled it, it regained its original shape again. Besides that, they were indestructible, even with a sledgehammer."

__________________________________________________________________

WILLIAM BRAZEL JR.

(F&B) "One of the pieces looked like] something on the order of tinfoil, except that [it] wouldn't tear.... You could wrinkle it and lay it back down and it immediately resumed its original shape... quite pliable, but you couldn't crease or bend it like ordinary metal. Almost like a plastic, but definitely metallic. Dad once said that the Army had once told him it was not anything made by us."

__________________________________________________________________

LORRETA PROCTOR

(Friend and neighbor of Mac Brazel. Brazel visited before reporting find in Roswell.)

((VIDEO1) "He said the stuff that looked kind of like aluminum foil, he said you'd crumple it up and then it would straighten out, it wouldn't stay creased, it would just open out. But he couldn't get any of it off to bring up. He said he couldn't cut it or anything."

__________________________________________________________________

SGT. ROBERT SMITH

(Robert Smith was a member of the First Air Transport Unit, which operated Douglas C-54 Skymaster four-engine cargo planes out of the Roswell AAF.)

(F&B, interviewed 1991) "All I saw was a little piece of material. You could crumple it up, let it come out. You couldn't crease it.
.

Regardless of how many days I'm gone and then read all the posts to catch up all I've read is that UFOs have been proven to exist. That's it.

Direct requests for evidence regarding ET presence are answered by a mountain of documents that show inconclusive data and speculation made by various individuals.

I asked skyeagle, the most prominent proponent on the ET side of the debate, to provide me info as to what aliens he believes to be piloting the UFOs and he disappointingly refers me to a vague, badly written manual that was pulled in the early 70s because of it's obvious inappropriate and unscientific gibberish.

The title of this thread is The Best Evidence for Aliens on Earth and not Any Wild Speculation You Have to Offer.

That means that:

1. The flying objects in question must have already been identified as an actual craft of some sort without any other possible explanation.
2. The race or races of beings flying those craft have already been identified as non terrestrial in origin.

As it stands, nothing has been presented that leaves no doubt as to what UFOs are and certainly no evidence of ET has been provided at all.

This thread is neck deep in speculation, but nothing else.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled debate.

I'm going to be fair to our old friend Sky, and generously say that he has done exactly what this thread has asked: he's presented the best evidence for aliens on earth. It just so happens that that evidence is in the form of radar trackings, documented sightings, and testimony, none of which is conclusive proof.

The alternate explanations for the presented evidence...hoaxes, misinterpretations, all manner of human gullibility and fallibility must come first, and be excluded before (IMO) the ETH can be accepted. And for my money, that simply hasn't happened yet.

Actually, it is, if you knew anything about such data and that fits in nicely with documents and eyewitness accounts. Besides, official declassified government UFO documents from the FOIA have now proven that the objects are not ours.

Actually, all that is circumstantial evidence, and not conclusive proof.

Since radar contacts confirmed the visual accounts of aircrews who identified the crafts that were maneuvering around their aircraft as flying saucers, which then proceeded to zoom off at hypersonic speeds, then simple common sense logic says that if mankind didn't have the ability to build those crafts with such advanced technology as demonstarted visually and on radar, then the crafts were not those of mankind because mankind didn't have the ability to build such crafts.

Yes i can drive a car, and we are humans wright? are there another animal on earth capable of driving a car? you want to personally identify the flying saucers pilots by their names now to conclude someone is inside those things?

That doesnt matter. Radar cant identify if its "greys" that pilot them or not.

I thought the thread was about "ufo's" and if they are not of this world.

I don't classifiey them as anything except as not of this earth, you want to call them grey's will then suggestion has worked well on you.

THE THREAD IS NOT ABOUT WHAT SPECIES THEY ARE OR WHERE THEY COME FROM.

I do know how to read and I can also see how you pick and choose what you like to post, relivant to the thread or not. Hey it's Stellar he can pick and choose as he pleases and leave the topic of the thread behind. Fine if thats what you want to do leave the thread and go argrue some kid about being abducted my the little gray men. This is not a thread based on fantasy as much as you want it to be based on that, but buy all means start a thread on what was it Zeta what ever.

WOW ok lets say they are human's from the future does that matter. They are craft we can't explain period. You want to say future humans that can time travel arn't alien's. I'm sure if that were the case we would be aliens to many planets, even to ourselves. Lets twist this more, what if the future of humans involves genetic manipulation and are not quite human as we are now.. See how far desperate you are to take this thread off topic.

I never made any claim I had proof of aliens, but the evidience does add to something alot different then man can explain to himself. This is not the new religion where we believe a book because we had a sword pointed at us....

It can prove the crafts are not those of mankind!

That isn't what the experts have been saying in public and military officials behind closed-doors!

Now, that countries have begun releasing their UFO files, I would not be surprised at all to find that the public is slowly being prepared for eventual disclosure down the line.

I had predicted years ago that it would done this way.

And you know that....how?

FOIA I suppose? Or have you been involved in these closed-door meetings?

Being in the right places at the right time.

I don't really have to be, since some have come out in public and stated that ET visitation is a reality, but if you have been following the thread, you would have found that the the Air Force has already admitted to that fact.

And that means, what, exactly?

Just in case you missed it before.

MANEUVERED MOTION AND "INTELLIGENT CONTROL

Following the nearly year-long 1952 UFO sighting wave in which there were repeated instances of jet interceptors chasing after UFOs that also showed on radar, the Central Intelligence Agency convened the so-called Robertson Panel to evaluate the data. Among the presentations made to the scientific panel was one by Dewey J. Fournet (USAF, Ret.) who had worked with scientific analysts conducting a rigorous motion analysis study of hardcore unexplained cases.

Edward J. Ruppelt, former Chief of the Air Force Project Blue Book investigation, later reported that the study was "very hot and very controversial...[it] was hot because it wasn't official and the reason it wasn't official was because it was so hot. It concluded that UFOs were interplanetary spaceships."

Air Force analysts had reached this conclusion before. Project Sign in 1948 had issued a Top Secret Estimate of the Situation drawing the same conclusion. (Hall, 1964, p. 110) But both times outside scientific consultants, on the basis of what were arguably superficial and excessively skeptical reviews, disputed the conclusion. (Hall, 1988, pp. 155-163)

Many of these jet interception cases included a sort of "cat-and-mouse" behavior on the part of the UFOs, pulling away from the pursuing jets and then slowing down until they caught up again. This behavior has been repeated throughout the history of UFOs, and is one of the many indicators of intelligence behind the phenomenon. Case after case can be cited of UFOs apparently playing interactive games with (a) military aircraft

Now you're just lying. You quoted the following:

With this link in the quote box:
http://www.nsa.gov/ufo/ufo00008.pdf

You are being deceptive by posting a large block of text, and providing a link to something entirely different than the text. At this point, I find it hard to believe that was a simple mistake.

liar. The link has nothing to do with the quote.

Gee, I guess the airforce doesnt teach integrity.

Facts are facts, and now, hundreds of government and former government workers, commercial pilots and radar experts and many others, confirm my position on ET reality as well.

What it is, you are still playing the denial position in left field, and because of that denial mindset, you were unaware that the game was rained-out an hour ago.

What the **** does that have to do with the PDF document you linked to?

Anyone can click the link and see that the block of text you posted did not come from the link. That is why you are a liar as far as that particular post is concerned.

Just repost, word-for-word, what that link has said for all to read in this thread.

I dare you!

Nowhere in that link does what you quoted appear. Thats deceit.

Goes to show just how vulnerable armchair debunkers are to being set-up.

I clicked the link you provided and did a search for the terms in your post to confirm the accuracy of your post. It was inaccurate, so you're busted.

WoW just wow



You actualy made that post ! I would be so embarassed for doing that I would not show my face in this thread again. So youtube lies ? even knowing that yutube is posting a main stream media news cast. Then you have to show up and post something as stupid as those video's you posted. This is the ultimate in skeptic BS and how much it shows the desperation of certin individules to redicule useing kindergartin tactics. Debunker that was the worst of the worst I have seen from a skeptic and how making fun of something is your main tactic. LIMP and WEAK and it really shows just how much a skeptic will go to justifie there side. I have to say a few skeptics that actually might have had an argument here have gone down hill quick, and have showen just to what levels of crap they will go to. Shame really!!!!

Of course I do, and so do thousands of other folks that comprise of, and here we go again, the folks who are stating that based on their encoutners and evidence that supports their claims, ET visitation is a fact.


* Commercial and military pilots, worldwide

* Astronauts and cosmonauts

* Radar operators, worldwide

* Scientist and engineers

* Astronomers

* Senior military and intelligence officials, worldwide

* Other military officers and enlisted personnel

* Police officials, worldwide

* Milliions of other people around the globe

Not to mention that the U. S. Air Force has already stated that ET vistiation is a fact, so there you have it.

Skyeagle wrote...



So why, if this is such a done deal, haven this been blasted all over the news in every country in the world as evidence that we are not alone...all we hear from time to time is - a UFO this and UFO that...why isnt this tought to us in school... why do NASA - SETI - ESA - and all the other space agencys on the planet go on like nothing happend??

I meen, if true, there could hardly be a news story more important then this!!?? If this is such a no brainer, how come that there are skeptics to this ETH at all.??

Im sorry, but I just thought it was sooo funny.

My point still stands though...Why, if youtoube, is such a credible source of hard evidence, havent these links posted by Sky hit the scientific community..how come the academics arent writing scientific papers about this SMOKING GUN evidence of ET, found on youtoube(!)??

Now, review this incident from an official USAF report that was presented in a science book at the Air Force Academy, which pretty much ties in what is posted above.

How many politicians are going to stand up and say. "Well actually, they wouldn't speak to us in government, becasue they view us as nothing more than ill educated, warmongering, self serving habitual liars, who have never once actually done anything for the public's good, unless, it suited their own personal agendas.

Skyeagle wrote...



So why, if this is such a done deal, haven this been blasted all over the news in every country in the world as evidence that we are not alone...all we hear from time to time is - a UFO this and UFO that...why isnt this tought to us in school... why do NASA - SETI - ESA - and all the other space agencys on the planet go on like nothing happend??

What was the name of the science book, and author's name? When was this book used at the Air Force Academy? Or are we supposed to guess? Or better yet, accept your word on it?

I meen, if true, there could hardly be a news story more important then this!!?? If this is such a no brainer, how come that there are skeptics to this ETH at all.??

Disclosure Project

http://www.disclosureproject.org/



INTERNATIONAL PRESS CONFERENCE, NATIONAL PRESS CLUB, WASHINGTON D.C. November 12, 2007

Presenting official data on unidentified aerial phenomena
Promoting international cooperation among governments and the military in investigating UFOs

Moderated by former Arizona Governor
Fife Symington

http://www.freedomofinfo.org/national_press.htm

The JAL UFO encouter over Alaska made news around the globe, and even the Belgian UFO incidents as well, and in fact, was also carried in the Wall Street Journal.

The JAL UFO encouter over Alaska made news around the globe, and even the Belgian UFO incidents as well, and in fact, was also carried in the Wall Street Journal.

The disclosure project!!! I ask you for the best evidence you have and you give me Greers disclosure project!!??

That's not what Debunker's talking about. The Hickson/Parker case made news in 1973, and I recall one of them was even on the game show "To Tell the Truth".

What was meant was if aliens are real, and visiting, then it'd be the news story of the millenium. People like Rupert Murdoch would pay out the nose for an exclusive, and that hasn't happened.

INTRODUCTORY SPACE SCIENCE - VOLUME II
CHAPTER ***III
UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS
DEPARTMENT OF PHYSICS - USAF
UNITED STATES AIR FORCE ACADEMY


It was used by the U.S. Air Force Academy back during the 1960s and was kept from the eyes of the public until it was finally leaked, and then, it was pulled off the shelves.

There is more to the story that I know of just in case you want to debunk the publication. Just an insurance measure against debunkers, you understand!

33.6 CONCLUSION

From available information, the UFO phenomenon appears to have been global in nature for almost 50,000 years. The majority of known witnesses have been reliable people who have seen easily-explained natural phenomena, and there appears to be no overall possitive correlation with population density. The entire phenomenon could be psychological in nature but that is quite doubtful. However, psychological factors probably do enter the data picture as "noise." The phenomenon could also be entirely due to known and unknown phenomena (with some psychological "noise" added in) but that too is questionable in view of some of the available data.

This leaves us with the unpleasant possibility of alien visitors to our planet, or at least of alien controlled UFO's. However, the data are not well correlated, and what questionable data there are suggest the existence of at least three and maybe four differnet groups of aliens (possibly at different states of development). This too is difficult to accept. It implies the existence of intelligent life on a majority of the planets in our solar system, or a surprisingly strong interest in Earth by members of other solar systems.

A solution to the UFO problem may be obtained by the long and diligent effort of a large group of well financed and competent scientists, unfortunately there is no evidence suggesting that such an effort is going to be made. However, even if such an effort were made, there is no guarantee of success because of the isolated and sporatic nature of the sightings. Also, there may be nothing to find, and that would mean a long search with no profit at the end. The best thing to do is to keep an open and skeptical mind, and not take an extreme position on any side of the question.

How many politicians are going to stand up and say. "Well actually, they wouldn't speak to us in government, becasue they view us as nothing more than ill educated, warmongering, self serving habitual liars, who have never once actually done anything for the public's good, unless, it suited their own personal agendas.