By "we need definitive scientific evidence" I think hazzard is talking about the skeptical/scientific community...

Anyway...there are lots of PERHAPS, WHAT IFs, and assumptions in your post. You, like most of the believers, are willing to take that famous leap of faith that is nessesary when it comes to the "evidence" of aliens visiting us here on Earth.

Im not.

I'm assuming from this that you know about all our secret technology?

Lets assume that they are man made craft. To use the manoeuvres they do i don't think it's too much to suggest that. The the technology involved o is a combination of gravity control and a vacuum field generated, in free space, around the such craft. If that is so, the first thing they would have done, with such technology, is something relatively simple. Ie, the manufacture of ball bearings as perfect spheres. The outcome? Oh yes a marked improvement in the speed and efficiency of many of the basic weapons such as tanks. The Abraham's battle tank, for instance, would have shown a leap in performance that would be passed off of due to some other technological advances.

Only that hasn't happened, the logical conclusion being that, we don't actually have that technology yet...
It's hilarious really. On the one hand you have these sceptics saying. "If these things really did exist someone would have sadi something there is no way it could have stayed secret. However, exactly the same argument applies to that technology if it were man made. Someone somewhere would have come forward and said. This is how it works, I know, I worked on it. Oh but they did, it was Bob Lazar...Ah, but i forget..he's a total fraud...
So let me get this right. Your argument is this. the craft are man made and have been for nearly 70 years. However, the technology they employ has not found its' way into any other field of human science?

If secret, why parade them over major cities and military bases in full violation of their airspaces?

That's because you're a debunker, and you provide little to no evidence when supporting your views. With you, it's just "No, I don't believe in it. End..."

By "we need definitive scientific evidence" I think hazzard is talking about the skeptical/scientific community...

My user name is DEBUNKER...but my "job" isnt to explain what a UFO might have been..... As a skeptic I dont have to provide any evidence at all...that is up to the ones making the claim that they are here. The "evidence" I have seen so far falls short of any type of scientific standard. That doesnt mean that I dont wish it were true. I would love to see the day when media all over the world screams...

WE ARE NOT ALONE!!

Edit: Excellent point, sky. I knew there was one more factor that I was missing in my post(s). You would think that they would have carried the tests out somewhere in the Nevada desert, or over the ocean or something... not anywhere near public cities.

There's enough proof that they are here. Just open up your eyes a little more, put more research into the subject. Don't just say "they're not here" when there's already been information provided to back up the claims of the believer.

When you say "proof"...what exactly do you mean? And believe you me..Iv read most of what skyeagle posted, and then some... but Im still waiting for that "no-doubt evidence" that they exist and are infact here...sorry, but stories, numbers and pictures just dont cut it when it comes to something as important as this.... We need real physical evidence that can be examined by skeptical mainstream scientists. Like they did with the moonrocks...Then, if they are all 100% sure that the evidence, a ship or a body, didnt come from this starsystem...Then, I would pop open the champagne.

We need real physical evidence that can be examined by skeptical mainstream scientists. Like they did with the moonrocks...Then, if they are all 100% sure that the evidence, a ship or a body, didnt come from this starsystem...Then, I would pop open the champagne.

That has been done and the results concluded that no terrestrial explanation was possible. One of those involved in physical evidence that were examined in the labs was an associate of J. Allen Hynek.

Phyical evidence in other UFO landing cases have been noted as well.

Do you realize what those mainstream scientists would be risking if they just went out and told the public what they had discovered, and provided evidence?

You're not going to get the NO-DOUBT evidence simply because the government won't allow it.

Seriously... you think the government is going to come out all friendly about it, "YEAH! THIS JUST IN! WE SAT DOWN AND HAD A GLASS OF SODA WITH ETs FROM THE ZETA RETICULI 1 & 2 STAR SYSTEMS! THEY EXIST! YAAYY!!!"? Honestly, now... they're not just going to do that.

The credible testimony put forward by witnesses is enough for me to say that "They're here".

I think you're just stubborn and ignorant.

That has been done and the results concluded that no terrestrial explanation was possible. One of those involved in physical evidence that were examined in the labs was an associate of J. Allen Hynek.

Phyical evidence in other UFO landing cases have been noted as well.

If this were true...I mean, SETI - NASA - ESA and all the other countrys space agencys never said a word about them finding life in space. Why havent this been accepted by mainstream...Nobelprize...there could hardly be anything as cool as finding real evidence that we are not alone...and being visited by intelligent beings in their starships!!


Could it be that the "evidence" isnt as good as you think?

A yes, the old conspiracy/cover-up play...how convinient.

Sounds like a logicall fallacy to me...its like saying - I cant show you the evidence because I havent got any.

Keeping something like that a secret for that long would be impossible...the government can even keep a stained blue dress quiet.

Are you serious!? Do you really believe in EVERYTHING that people say!!??
And I think that your too gullible.

REPORT OF AIR FORCE RESEARCH REGARDING THE
"ROSWELL INCIDENT"
July 1994

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

The "Roswell Incident" refers to an event that supposedly happened in July, 1947, wherein the Army Air Forces (AAF) allegedly recovered remains of a crashed "flying disc" near Roswell, New Mexico. In February, 1994, the General Accounting Office (GAO), acting on the request of a New Mexico Congressman, initiated an audit to attempt to locate records of such an incident and to determine if records regarding it were properly handled. Although the GAO effort was to look at a number of government agencies, the apparent focus was on the Air Force. SAF/AAZ , as the Central Point of Contact for the GAO in this matter, initiated a systematic search of current Air Force offices as well as numerous archives and records centers that might help explain this matter. Research revealed that the "Roswell Incident" was not even considered a UFO event until the 1978-1980 time frame. Prior to that, the incident was dismissed because the AAF originally identified the debris recovered as being that of a weather balloon. Subsequently, various authors wrote a number of books claiming that, not only was debris from an alien spacecraft recovered, but also the bodies of the craft's alien occupants. These claims continue to evolve today and the Air Force is now routinely accused of engaging in a "cover-up" of this supposed event.

The research located no records at existing Air Force offices that indicated any "cover-up" by the USAF or any indication of such a recovery. Consequently, efforts were intensified by Air Force researchers at numerous locations where records for the period in question were stored. The records reviewed did not reveal any increase in operations, security, or any other activity in July, 1947, that indicated any such unusual event may have occurred. Records were located and thoroughly explored concerning a then-TOP SECRET balloon project, designed to attempt to monitor Soviet nuclear tests, known as Project Mogul. Additionally, several surviving project personnel were located and interviewed, as was the only surviving person who recovered debris from the original Roswell site in 1947, and the former officer who initially identified the wreckage as a balloon. Comparison of all information developed or obtained indicated that the material recovered near Roswell was consistent with a balloon device and most likely from one of the Mogul balloons that had not been previously recovered. Air Force research efforts did not disclose any records of the recovery of any "alien" bodies or extraterrestrial materials.


INTRODUCTION
Air Force involvement in the alleged UFO-related incident popularly known as the "Roswell Incident" began as the result of a January 14, 1994, Washington Post article (Atch 1) which announced Congressman Steven Schiff's intent to initiate a General Accounting Office (GAO) effort to resolve this controversial matter. Having previously been involved in numerous Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) and Congressional requests on "unusual aircraft," to include Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs), The Director, Security and Special Program Oversight, Office of the Secretary of the Air Force, (SAF/AAZ) believed the Air Force would become involved in any GAO effort involving this subject.

source: http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1547.htm Read here to learn more about it...

Army Reveals It Has Flying Disc Found On Ranch In Mew Mexico

Sacramento Bee July 8, 1947

ROSWELL (N.M.). July 8. (AP) --The army air forces here today announced a flying disc has been found on a ranch near Roswell and is in possession of the army. Lieutenant Warren Haught, public information officer of the Roswell Army AIr Field, announced the find had been made "sometime last week" and had been turned over to the air field through the cooperation of the sheriff's office.

Higher Headquarters

"It was inspected at the Roswell Army Air Field and subsequently loaned by Major Jesse A. Marcel of the 509th Bomb Group Intelligence office in Roswell to higher headquarters."

The army gave no other details. Haught's statement:

"The many rumors regarding the flying discs became a reality yesterday when the intelligence office of the 509th (atomic) Bomb Group of the 8th Air Force, Roswell Army Air Field, was fortunate enough to gain possession of a disc through the cooperation of one of the ranchers and the sheriff's office of Chaves county.

"The flying object landed on a ranch near Roswell sometime last week. Not having phone facilities, the rancher stored the disc until such time as he was able to contact the sheriff's office, who inturn notified Jesse A. Marcel, of the 509th Bomb Group intelligence office."

Inspected at Roswell

"Action was immediately taken and the disc was picked up at the rancher's home. It was inspected at the Roswell Army Air Field, and subsequently loaned by Major Jesse Marcel to higher headquarters."

The rancher's name and the location of his place was withheld.

George Walsh of the radio station KSWS which provided first news of the announcement said only Major Marcel, Colonel W. H. Blanchard, commanding officer at Roswell, and the rancher had seen the object here.

The sheriff, Walsh reported, upon receiving word from the rancher went immediately to the intelligence officer at Roswell Field.

Well, if you think that if you think the scientists would just come out and say it... then you're pretty much... globally delayed, as they refer to it as nowadays.

If it's impossible, then how come they have succeeded in doing it so well? For the past 61 years?

Not everything. I sure as hell do not believe in Bob Lazar, he's about as phony as Pamela Anderson.

I do not believe in everything I hear, my boy. I believe in what I see, and what I see is a cover-up denying the existence of a recovered flying saucer which crashed in Roswell, New Mexico.

Then how come you know about it!?

Thats not the only thing you and skyeagle have in common. You..like he..has not been able to show any evidence of your claims..all you have are stories..nothing I would call real evidence...Ohh sorry..I forgot that a story is all you need to believe.

I saw that you quoted that kook Friedman...Here is what you should do..go to enterprise mission.com ...Richard Hoaglands site is a gold mine for people who needs to believe, and loves pseudoscience.

... But we do have a problem here, and that problem is that ufo's, no matter how strange, are just not being taken seriously, and thats a shame. Alot of scientist do shun away from the subject because of ridicule, and i don't see this changing for a while.

People have come forward... even people who were on their deathbed, people with nothing to gain... Honestly. Why would they lie? They'd have no reason to.

If this were true...I mean, SETI - NASA - ESA and all the other countrys space agencys, all looking for ET life, never said a word about them finding life in space.

Why havent this been accepted by mainstream...

Could it be that the "evidence" isnt as good as you think?

I could be wrong, but it sounds like your talking about Philip J Corso? Here is an update for you - Corsos stories are chock full of holes and inaccuracies. He was a fake.

Do you have any links or information to provide regarding this, sky? I just want to read up on it, is all.

NASA revealed objects within that meteor that was found and look how NASA was scorned.

Thats not the only thing you and skyeagle have in common. You..like he..has not been able to show any evidence of your claims..all you have are stories..nothing I would call real evidence...Ohh sorry..I forgot that a story is all you need to believe.

If it's impossible [government coverup--Nigel], then how come they have succeeded in doing it so well?

You've hit the nail on the head here. Yep, the * ha ha* factor still exists when it comes to seeing something unknown in the sky. Frankly, this is the most irritating aspect of the entire 'UFO phenomenon' IMO.

Do you realize what those mainstream scientists would be risking if they just went out and told the public what they had discovered, and provided evidence?

That's just it, how do you know they have been so successful?

Money, power, prestige?

Any scientist who could prove, or had solid evidence of ET could write his own ticket for the rest of his/her life. Government grants, scientific prizes, lectures, book tours, you name it.

Money, power, prestige?

Any scientist who could prove, or had solid evidence of ET could write his own ticket for the rest of his/her life. Government grants, scientific prizes, lectures, book tours, you name it.

Yeah, I heard it all before when the debunkers refused to accept my evidence that no weather balloon was involved and the rest is now history.

It seems the debunkers can't accept the fact that the tons of data evdence have already proven beyond any doubt the UFOs in question are not ours and tlhey are going to go out with a bang in much the same way as the weather balloon debunkers in 1994.

Again with the balloon!! Explain to me, how a skeptic being wrong about "a balloon or no balloon" at Roswell makes it ET. Because the first report said soo in the paper!?? No dice, it could have been a cover for something else. It could have been a "broken arrow" for all we know. Cherry picking at its finest. Sometimes the military cover up stuff, and, sometimes they put it in the paper. Its a win win for you.

Sorry, cant have it both ways.

The point is, if someone cant explain a UFO sighting, or in this case a 60 years old myth, how does that make you right about your ET belief!!??

Keeping something like that a secret for that long would be impossible...the government can even keep a stained blue dress quiet.

But apparently, they can keep the fact they are using technology, as observed, totally secret for 70 years. Plus not bother to ever use it to win every war they have taken part in as well... You contradict yourself in the same breath...

Again with the balloon!! Explain to me, how a skeptic being wrong about "a balloon or no balloon" at Roswell makes it ET.

Because the first report said soo in the paper!??

No dice, it could have been a cover for something else. It could have been a "broken arrow" for all we know.

The point is, if someone cant explain a UFO sighting, or in this case a 60 years old myth, how does that make you right about your belief that an alien rocket jocky, after traveling through the vastnes and dangers of interstellar space, crashed in stix!!??

The point is, if someone cant explain a UFO sighting, or in this case a 60 years old myth, how does that make you right about your belief that an alien rocket jocky, after traveling through the vastnes and dangers of interstellar space, crashed in stix!!??

I had already said what it was, and what it wasn't years ago, and to prove that it wasn't what the Air Force had said it was, I went to the Air Force who supplied me with documents that proved that the Roswell incident wasn't what the Air Force said it was in its second cover-up story.

Now, UFOlogist are also accepting the fact that no Mogul balloon flight occurred on June 4, 1947 after all.

You see how much information can be obtained by using a little detective work?! Sure I have Air Force connections, but so what?! You can also get information from the FOIA on UFOs as well.

Alright, let me see if I can get this right. First they say they have found a crashed flying saucer, only to change
this information the very next day to it being the debris of a top-secret research balloon, (Project Mogul).
For which upon further analysis of that assertion, has been proven to not fit in with the time frame of the roswell incident.

So upon saying that, what exactly did they cover up?

Also, sky, take into account of the crash wreckage radius which had been mentioned. The debris had been scattered over five kilometres.. pretty far for a top secret balloon to have its wreckage spread, don't you think?

That figure was too large.

Now, it has been determined that Project Mogul balloons were not classified after all. In fact, the New York Times covered a story where a policeman recovered a Project Mogul balloon that snagged itself on the roof of a tarvern as many civilians watched. That incident occurred in Flat Bush, New Jersey, and New Jersey was the home of Project Mogul.

Project Mogul balloons were not classified and they were occasionally recovered by ordinary civilians for rewards after answering questionnaires that were attached to Mogul balloons, which were also written in english and in spanish.

The Air Force pulled that Mogul balloon story out of thin air and the rest is history.

At first, I thought that such a flight occurred, but was not responsible for the Roswell incident, but I became suspicious when I couldn't find any flight records pertaining to the Mogul balloon flight the Air Force said took place on June 4, 1947, so I went to the Air Force to find out why and found to my amazement, there were no Mogul balloon flight on June 4, 1947; the flight was cancelled and never flown that day.

So now, the plot thickens!!

Alienated Being -
Also, sky, take into account of the crash wreckage radius which had been mentioned. The debris had been scattered over five kilometres.. pretty far for a top secret balloon to have its wreckage spread, don't you think?

I must agree with that myself Sky.

But, I only have one question. Could it be possible that they wrote down that the balloon flight was cancelled that day
just to keep that top-secret test under cover?




Regards,
Tom

I must agree with that myself Sky.

But, I only have one question. Could it be possible that they wrote down that the balloon flight was cancelled that day
just to keep that top-secret test under cover?

Regards,
Tom

Where could I find information on this story, sky? I am very interested in learning more about Roswell and Project Mogul.