Ja, I was referring to Waco, but the Army did manage to splash Roswell all over the news before they could clamp down on it. I think that's what he meant.

Our armed forces have got much better at this sort of thing since Roswell.

I agree.



One day maybe D, but not today, not if all we have is what we have seen here.



Oh comon D, the pseudo guys can be lots of fun to listen to. Alien bases on the moon, The Hollow Earth guys, Shroud of Turin, The Skinwalker ranch, Ancient HighTech, John Titor...the list is endless. As long as you can separate science fiction from science fact, whats the harm?



That would do it for me aswell. Not holding my breath though.

Why not ask those scientist and astronomers, who have documented their own observations of flying saucers and documented their data on those objects as well, what they think they are?

One of the things that impressed a scientific panel in 1997 were the effects by UFOs on electrical systems of vehicles. The following incident was examined by that scientific panel and I might add, that the captain of the DC-10 was one of participants of the Disclosure Project. A primary reason why it was not prudent to ridicule the Disclosure Project since you didn't know the rest of the story as relating to the case files that were presented.


________________________________________________________________________________

A 1997 Scientific Panel Presents United Airlines Flt 94

At 2105 EST on March 12, 1977 between Buffalo and Albany, New York, that involved United Airlines flight 94, a nonstop flight from San Francisco to Boston. The DC-10 airplane was under the control of autopilot system #2 and was flying at 37,000 feet altitude. The entire sky was dark and clear ahead and above the airplane, except for a partial undercast with small clouds extending to about 20 miles ahead. The aircraft was flying at an indicated air speed of 275 knots (true air speed 530 knots). The aircraft was about half way between Buffalo and Albany, and had just changed from contact with the "FROM" VOR (Very-High-Frequency Omnidirectional Bearing) signal emanating from Buffalo to the "TO" signal from Albany. The aircraft was just south of Syracuse, New York." "Suddenly and unexpectedly, the airplane began to turn to the left, making a 15 degree bank. Within a few seconds, the First Officer and the Captain looked to the left side of their plane and saw an extremely bright white light at about their own altitude. Subsequently, the Flight Engineer also looked and saw the light source. It appeared to be perfectly round and its apparent diameter was about 3 degrees of arc. However, the Captain estimated the object to be about 1,000 yards away and to be about 100 feet in size, that corresponds to an angular size of 2 degrees."

"Its intensity was remarkable: about the intensity of a flashbulb," he remarked. Boston ATC radioed to ask "United 94, where are you going?" The Captain replied "Well, let me figure this out. I will let you know." He then noticed that the three cockpit compasses (that use sensors in different parts of the plane) were all giving different readings. At this point, the Copilot turned off the autopilot and took manual control of the airplane."
________________________________________________________________________________



Now, the rest of the story from the Disclosure Project


________________________________________________________________________________


The Disclosure Project Presents The Captain Of United Airlines Flt 94

Testimony of Mr. Neil Daniels, Airline Pilot

November 2000

Mr. Daniels is a pilot with over 30,000 of flight time spanning 59 years. He entered the Air Force and became a B-17 pilot surviving 29 combat missions. After leaving the Air Force he worked for United Airlines for 35 years. He tells about the time in March of 1977 when he was flying a commercial flight from San Francisco to Boston. The plane was on autopilot when by itself it began to bank left. He looked out the window and noticed a brilliant bright light. The first and second officers both saw it also. They were perplexed because all three compasses reported different readings.

…The one and only sighting that I had was in March of 1977. I was flying a DC-10 on a flight from San Francisco to Boston. And it was United Flight 94. We were about halfway between Buffalo and Albany at 37,000 feet, fog cover underneath, dark night, when all of a sudden the airplane which was on auto pilot started a 15 degree turn to the left. And of course I looked out the window and I saw this brilliant light.

The first officer saw it and the second officer got out of his seat and took a look. And that's when the Air Traffic Control in Boston wanted to know what was happening. So we told them when we figured it out we'd give them a call. And about that time the first officer hit the auto pilot release button and went back to manual control. As I was looking out the window this thing that we had seen disappeared back towards the left of the airplane and to our rear at a very rapid rate. The whole event took place in probably less than three minutes or so…

Well, the first officer's autopilot, which is connected to the Captain's compass, is out in the left wingtip of the airplane. And apparently for some reason or another the magnetic force was interrupted to cause the aircraft to veer off course because it is hooked up to the compass. All three compasses were giving different readings, which is very unusual. So what we gathered was it was an enormous magnetic force in whatever that ball was that we saw out there, that white light.

After we turned the autopilot off and the first officer straightened out the airplane the magnetic interference that had made the compasses all different readings ended and all returned to normal. And the object had disappeared away from us. So everything returned to a normal state…

In the past pilots that had seen things and had talked about it were let go. Some were released from their flying and treated as nutcases and things like that. So that was the last I said of it for many, many years.

Quite a few pilots have told me of their incidents and their sightings and what has happened. And one especially, was a sighting back on the east coast and he saw this thing for a long time, something like 18 minutes. And when he reported it to his boss, it was a different airline not United Airlines, they investigated it and the Government said, well, that's swamp gas. At 18,000 feet, doing 250 knots, swamp gas! No one really wanted to admit that there might possibly be something there.

________________________________________________________________________________

Or even better, I could ask some of the skeptical scientists and astronomers what they think is going on. You see Sky, Im not satisfied until all of them, mainstream world wide, agree that this is real. Like the example with the moon rocks, I want them all to agree, no doubts, that ET exists, and is indeed here.

I predict that we will first find some fossil alien microbes, maybe on Mars, maybe even living microbes under the ice on Europa, long, LOOONG before, if ever, there is real proof of intelligent star traveling extraterrestrials.

Skyeagle, what types of aliens fly UFO's? Where do they live? What is their purpose?

The tide is slowly changing.

Questionnaires were sent to members of the American Astronomical Society by Peter Sturrock, and 1,356 responded. "The respondent was asked to state his opinion on whether the UFO problem deserves scientific study: 23% replied "certainly", 30% "probably", 27% "possibly", 17% "probably not", and 3% "certainly not", which represents a positive attitude among 53% of the respondents, as against a negative attitude among 20%.""Analysis of the returns shows that older scientists are markedly more negative to the problem than are younger scientists."

http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc604.htm


"Air Force's Project Blue Book files indicate that approximately 1% of all their reports came from amateur and professional astronomers or other users of telescopes (such as missile trackers or surveyors)."

In 1980, a survey of 1800 members of various amateur astronomer associations, 24% responded "yes" to the question "Have you ever observed an object which resisted your most exhaustive efforts at identification?"

Source:

Herb/Hynek amateur astronomer poll results

But yet again this has nothing to do with aliens, only UFO's!

That a good thing, right!

But let me ask you this Sky..What if there was a total investigation, many countrys involved, 5 years from now, and the answer to the UFO mystery was some unknown, at this time, terrestrial phenomenon.

Would that kill you, absolutely break your heart?

Or would you just claim a Cover-up, and go on with your -I believe therefor it is, mentality?

It does since some of those sightings were of objects that were in space.

Definitely, since it shows a trend toward a changing atitude, but then again, scientist and astronomers have been reporting their observations for years.



I already know as a fact, that is never going to happen, and that is based on the actual reports of highly experienced military and commercial aircrews of flying machines, and their reports wrere supported by the data evidence.

The fact that you asked me such a question shows that you haven't been paying any attention as to what has been presented. What did professionals, meteorologist, and military officials say about the UFOs in question as NOT the result of any natural atmospheric phenomena or celestrial bodies?



With all of my years of experience in aviation, I know beyond any doubt that the saucer-shaped object had nothing to do with any natural phenomena, known, or unknown, in regards to my own sighting, which was later revealed years later by General George S. Brown, Chief of Staff of the Air Force.

http://www.af.mil/history/person.asp?dec=&pid=123006471

Besides, the evidence has proven beyond any doubt that the UFOs in question are those of intelligently controlled vehicles, which were visually identified as such by professional aircrews.

Are you implying that incidents such as these, are going to be revealed as some natural atmospheric phenomena? Just a few of the thousands of similar incidents where investigations excluded natural phenomena and celetrial bodies,. and remember, some of these incident is where debunkers tried to use atmospheric phenomena and planets to try and debunk the incidents, but failed when the facts came rolling in.

____________________________________________________________________________

A flying saucer perturbed the air traffic at Bariloche airport.

SAN CARLOS DE BARILOCHE 02/08 (AFP) = On Monday morning, around ten eye-witnesses reported that, moving at high velocity and defying all known laws of physics, a white flying saucer perturbed the air traffic at the San Carlos de Bariloche airport, located 1 800 km S-W of Buenos-Aires, during 15 minutes on Monday to Tuesday night.

The observation stated on Monday at 23:30 GMT (Tuesday 01H30 HB) while Aérolinas Argentinas flight 674, en route from Buenos Aires with 102 passengers and 3 crew members was on final approach to land on the runway of Bariloche airport, an in vogue winter resort located on the first slopes of the Andes.

"The pilot of the plane had to accomplish a desperate escape maneuver not to collide with an unidentified flying object (UFO)" said several members of the Argentine military air forces. These testimonies were confirmed by Major Jorge Oviedo himself who "also saw a UFO" and who stated that "a power failure occurred at the same time in the city and all recording and measure apparatus at the airport were jammed". Several inhabitants claimed they saw the UFO just before the power failure.

________________________________________________________________________

* 1952 Washtington D.C. UFO incidents

* 1956 Lakenheath UFO encounter

* 1957 RB-47 UFO encounter

* 1976 Iranian UFO enconter

* 1980 Rendlesham UFO incidents

* 1984 UFO Flyby of one of NORAD's DSP satellites, code named: Fast Walker, which was tracked from deep space

* 1986 Japan Airlines UFO encounter

*1990 Belgian UFO incidents

_________________________________________________________________________

So what you have just said, is never going to happen and in fact, countries have begun to reveal in their own UFO cases files that the objects are of intelligently controlled flying machines, which obviously, are not the result of any natural phenomenon--known, or unknown.

In other words, since professional aircrews around the globe reported encountering metallic saucer-shaped flying machines with portholes and rotating beason lights, which maneuvers around their aircraft, sometimes for as long periods of time, and tracked on radar as they are maneuvering around the aircraft, then obviously, the UFOs in question had nothing to do with any natural phenomena--known, or unknown.

Interesting point Hazard.. I , personally think, it might be that they wait until they find microbes on another world before they just admit if there is serious evidence for intelligent off world/ inter dimensional life.


The microbe route, prepares people for the shock of other intelligent life. You let it sink in for a few months and minotr how it is reacted to then i think the final disclosure might come almost by *accident*.


I can see a situation whereby some news is released that, at its' heart, throws up the question. Surely if this is true it means there is intelligent life out there?


I can see a scenario where some historical event is re-assessed in the light of some new "evidence" that does seem to suggest alien contact. That will be used as a springboard, over the space of a couple of months, to ready the world's population for the news that. "Actually they are here"...


I have watched how there has been a shift over the last 30 or so years in how it is all dealt with. In that 30 years the number of people who believe it might well be happening has gone from 15-20% to 50-60% in most polls that are published.

That is, the culture shock involved with such an announcement is perceived as being far less of a problem than it was back then.

Well clearly that means the only possible solution is that UFO's are mechanical, biological organsims that have evolved in secret within the earths crust.

Seriously doubt that since the objects exhibited advanced technology not found on 'earthly' aircraft.

Ever wondered why I posted references from the aeronautical manual, AIM'FAR Part 91, 817, and Appendix B, sections 1, 2, and 3?

Just a little hint the objects were not ours.

Tons and tons of recorded data that skyeagle has put forth and all he gets is flack.watch your 6 sky,and heres an idea? for the past thirty plus years serious subbleminial messages have been started into our mind set.the movies the books ,hearsay all an effort to desecenitise us about the possiblity of alein life forms. The masses of this planet wont all at once fall over and die if little grey,green what ever is brought forth by the gov or themselfs.If the gov,brings them forth and says they have been working for years with them ,then maybe a little fritcion may happen, But We need a news flash to get ourselfs moveing in the right direction again. We are planet bound and stuck in a rutt at the moment.We need to get off our butts and explore the stars, With or without little buddies! Dont be shocked! and DONTEATUS

salt on the brain? what about all the good points that skeptics make, and all they get is insults, and being told they have no idea of how ufo's are alien craft. occams razor argues in favor of misunderstood natural explanations, rather than ridicolous extraterrestrial ones

But they are not earthly aircraft. They are subterranean semi-intelligent disc shaped animals with a mechanical and biological structure.

Our human capabilities don't matter. These creatures aerodynamic skill far surpasses our own.

No they're not ours. They are underground dwelling saucer creatures.

pffft ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah *deep breath* ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
alota the explanations skeptics give, are even harder to beleive than something like the ET theory.
but anyways, both sides get insulted all the time. believers more so, due to believing in something thats apparently 'far fetched' to some.

Alien theories are far fetched, and conspiricy theorists are just mental.

odly enough, they canbe more believable than some Other explanations skeptics give at times.
however, if i lived back in 1865, and in february or so i said theres a conspiracy to take out the pres soon, id be mental eh?

Nope! The radar data never recorded the objects as biological, nor is that what the aircrews reported.

Not far-fetched by any means.

We already know beyond any doubt that the UFOs in question, typically speaking, are metallic and saucer-shaped, which exhibit advanced technology and performance levels that prove they are intellilgently controlled crafts.

They fact that they are hypersonic flying saucers that do not leave behind any sonic booms, is a clear example that they are not our aircraft, which is what some have claimed, were weather ballons and planets. Talk about mental!!

Good points? The best (and only) valid argument the skeptics can put forth is: where is the "proof." Even professional skeptics such as Michael Shermer demonstrate a distinct lack of knowledge. The problem is, they focus on the easily explainable cases that are beside the point. Why focus on the knowns when you're trying to explain the unknowns? And wouldn't it be "objective" to first start your investigation by taking into account the many large scale scientific studies that have been done on the subject previously (and not simply skip to the summary and conclusions)? It would seem these dissenters are insinuating that the unknowns could simply be missed knowns, hence the purpose of demonstrating the ease with which the knowns could be explained, when in fact Project Blue Book Special Report #14 (the largest scientific study ever done on UFOs) clearly demonstrated that the unknowns could not have been missed knowns. After compiling all visible characteristics of the observations on punch cards for statistical analysis it was determined that the probability that the unknowns were simply missed knowns was less than 1%. Other key points in the study were that cases with insufficient information had a SEPARATE category than the unknowns.

The skeptics have repeatedly argued that the unknowns were simply those sightings for which not enough information was provided. In other words, had more sufficient information been provided, the object in question could have been identified. This has no basis in fact, as cases with insufficient information had a separate category. Additionally, Project Blue Book Special Report #14 also took into acount the QUALITY of the sighting (Excellent, Good, Doubtful and Poor). For example, a UFO seen at close range for a long duration with competent, reputable witnesses and "trained" observers such as astronomers would be considered an excellent quality case, while a case involving just one witness of a distant light shooting through the sky would be classified as poor. As it turned out, the better the quality of the sighting the greater the chance it would be classified as unknown, and the less of a chance it would be classified as insufficient information (obviously). It should also be noted that the "crack-pot" cases the skeptics seem so obsessed with also had a separate category entitled "Psychological Manifestation," which included mentally ill or publicity seeking individuals as was stated in the provided definition for the classification.

Some of the most notorious skeptics, like Donald Menzel and Phil Klass, had been proven wrong repeatedly with their utterly absurd dismissive explanations. Dr. James E. McDonald, Professor of Atmospheric Physics at the University of Arizona throughout the 50's, often picked apart their explanations of earthly plasmas, ball lighting and other atmospheric anomalies. Donald Menzel never offered a rebuttal to almost any of McDonald's responses. Neither did Klass. Instead, Phil Klass resorted to character assassination and sent letters to his employers lambasting him for his belief in "space aliens" in an attempt to ruin his reputation, as well as his career. Klass received a response that the University had no problem with his position and that they were happy with his work. However, McDonald did eventually run into a great deal of resistance by the academic community as a result and was even discredited during a presentation that had nothing to do with UFOs. McDonald was humiliated. This eventually snowballed to the point where McDonald's personal life was in shambles. After experiencing related marriage problems, James McDonald eventually took his own life.

I would argue that occams razor actually points in the favor of the ETH in situations where, as I mentioned before, the sightings are of close enough proximity to determine that the object in question has a definite shape and surface texture that implies definite manufacture; an object with the ability to hover and stop on a dime, to make 90 degree turns, often without visible external engines or air disturbance, whose shape, speed and manuevaribility strongly implies an origin that is off the Earth. Why make the leap? Because it would be irrational to assume that human beings had manufactured such craft before we had even mastered chemical rockets or made it to the moon.

Let's see! Highly experienced professional aircrews have visually identified a flying object as a metallic, saucer-shaped flying machine with portholes and rotating beacons, which maneuvered around their aircraft before zooming off at hypersonic speeds and the UFO debunkers claim that it was some unknown natural phenomena.

As I've said before, one of the biggest mysteries in the universe is the mindset of a UFO debunker.

even when you are flying into sky or space , you see a large or small disc shaped object. it does not mean they are alien flying saucers. because so many primitive space life have simple disc shaped and energy reflect metellic look, some even as big as few hundred meters size. they can fly as fast as crafts, shoot out light beams. their energy will affect all your electric instruments.......
of course, there are few real alien fly saucers up in space

http://ufo-spacelife.blogspot.com/

Mental like the people who believed America had a hand in the Guatamala coup of 54. Several people came forwrd and blamed the US and they were labeled 'mental', 54 years down the line and we now it as fact. http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/arbenz.htm

Yes I get a giggle at some of the conspiracy theories out there, but once in a while one or two of them are right.

UNIDENTIFIED AERIAL PHENOMENA
EIGHTY YEARS OF PILOT SIGHTINGS

Catalog of Military, Airliner, Private Pilots' Sightings from 1916 to 2000

This catalog contains 1305 cases: 606 Military aircraft cases, 444 Airliners cases, 193 private light planes (19 multiple aircraft, 43 cases
with no mention of type of aircraft).

Among the 1305 cases, 702 are North American. A detailed study and a database of the 200 radar-cases in this catalog (about 15%) is
currently under development at the French Space Agency (CNES) in France, as a SEPRA project led by Jean-Jacques Velasco.

An initial evaluation of the most detailed radar-visual cases shows that the technical data indicated by radar (sizes, speeds, distances,
maneuvers, locations) are quite close to those estimated by pilots.

Another study of the 57 cases involving electro -magnetic effects on th e aircraft (about 4%) of this catalog is under development with Dr Richard F. Hain


http://www.ufoevidence.org/newsite/files/W...ilotCatalog.pdf

There's a world (pun intended) of difference between a conspiracy on the level of man against man, and man hiding the existence of ET.

We know there have been conspiracies perpetrated by man: Watergate is a classic example (the white crow, if you will). We don't know that ET exists.

I have often said, that if the UFOs in question are not proven as ours, then they are those of someone else.


Flying Saucers Exist

http://roswellproof.homestead.com/Smith_11_21_50.html

Its seems that all your efforts skyeagle are falling on stuborn eyes and ears in here ? Our ability to build even the new generation of space craft is by all accounts ,matches and candles compared to the description`s in most all of the reports you have posted,all with fairly expert and amature alike witnesses.Ive not found a signal example of a 0-to mach speed ships anywhere in our inventory.plus man would totally black out pulling those G`sIMO.keep-em-comeing Skyeagle

Just because we dont see every UFO as evidence of alien starhips doesnt mean that there is something wrong with our "mindset.

You want this to be true soo bad that its clouding your logical thinking prosess.

Yes, let's see! I have a new theory....since WE manufacture craft that have portholes and rotating beacons and are metallic (albeit not saucer-shaped, as that is highly unstable unless it's either rotating like a Frisbee or uses some sort of anti-gravity mechanism, and if we do have that technology, I'd like to know why we're still using old-fashioned planes, but that's another question), and since it's so highly improbable an alien species from another solar system would manufacture such craft so close to our own (portholes, rotating beacons, etc.), I postulate that these craft are either manned by humans from a parallel universe or from the future.

Prove me wrong!

In reading Sagan's book Cosmos, I came across this paragraph:

(Cosmos, Chapter XII, Encyclopedia Galactica)

He then goes on to tell about the possibility of a civilization self-destructing. Then there's this for your consideration:


In Sagan's view, radio communication (a la Contact) is much more likely, and I agree.

Here are some examples of what I have been talking about, which I posted before.

In regards to the Japan Airlines UFO encounter, the objects were visually identified as flying saucers and one of them was described larger than two aircraft carriers. Air Force and FAA radar systems tracked, both the B-747 and the saucers as they tracked the B-747.

Now, getting down to business, the debunkers claimed that those saucers were Jupiter and Mars, eventhough the objects were identified visually as flying saucers by an experienced aircrew and despite the fact they were also tracked on radar as they maneuvered around the aircraft by the Air Force and the FAA.

When the debunkers saw their mistake after the data was released, they changed their claim to that of ice cloudes, which were impossible as well. Two monts later, an Air Force KC-135 encountered possibly the same craft as the Air Force aircrew identification and size were similar to that of the Japan Airlines aircrew and another commercial aircraft also encountered the objects in the same general region.

The debunkers also claimed that Capt. Thomas Mantell encountered Venus during daylight hours. When the facts came out later, the claim was changed to that of a Navy Skyhook balloon.

Debunkers continue to claim that the Rendlesham UFO incidents were caused by a lighthouse, and Tim Printy's name crops up in that respect. Other debunkers claimed that it was a battered military police car, which the guy later denied, he was responsible.

The list goes on and on, and another debunker claimed that the Iranian UFO encounter was a Russian "Backfire bomber in afterburner.

The list goes on and on, so it is no mystery as to why I made such a statement in that regard.



Once again, you are incorrect. The data supports my case, not those of the debunkers, and that is why those UFO case files in question, remain unexplained terrestrially speaking to this very day.

Apparently, the debunkers haven't figure that out because of their lack of logical thinking and that is why they continue to claim that weather balloons, clouds, and planets were UFOs that were tracked on radar as they maneuvered around aircraft and then zoomed off at hypersonic speeds and which were visually identified as flyng machines by the aircrews.

And, I have a feeling that this is going to also crash in flames as well, so get ready to call out the fire department.



You can stop right there since saucer-shaped flying machines were visually identified by commercial and military aircrews whose performance levels excluded aircraft.

BTW, do you have the number of the fire department? If so, you need to give them a call.

I don't agree because the data on the objects in queation are already available.

Dont you mean, terrestrial as far as we know!? There could be a terrestrial explanation for those still unexplained UFOs, some black ops next generation spy probes? Some unknown atmospheric phenomenon? Not even to mention the lies, hoaxes and missinterpretations.

Would it kill you if it came out that they all could be explained "terrestrialy"?

Do you ever wonder if the whales in the sea or other sae life talk about the aleins that come and abduct them? Its possible to think there wondering the same as some of us about the outside realms in their universes.

Our mere human radar systems cannot pick up on the discs organic nature, and the witnesses do not realise that the seemingly man/alien-made machines are actually biological entities of a disc shape, with a protective outer coating of a metallic skin.

All believe, just believe except you encounter with them for many times. And they show you what they are. Then you will know the truth.

http://ufo-spacelife.blogspot.com/

What you need to do, is to do some homework to see how wrong you are.

We already know, that they are not terrestrial in origin.



Nope, because we don't have "black ops" flying saucers larger than ships capable of hypersonic flight and not leave behind a sonic boom as recorded on airborne an ground-based radars, nor were those saucer-shaped objects that have been reported for centuries, "black ops" aircaft either.



To put that in perspective, how would anyone confuse a B-747 passing overhead as some unknown phenomena, which basically what you are implying?
Check it out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIQUo5Si_WA...feature=related




But, the UFOs in question, have nothing to do with hoaxes, lies, nor were they rhe result of misinterpretations. That is wishful thinking on the part of the UFO debunkers.



If anything, I would probably die laughing if they tried, considering the tons of authenticated data evidence that proves otherwise, as evident over the years. Once again, just wishful thinking that already has no chance at realty.

You seem to have forgotten that the objects have also been tracked in space long before we sent up our first spacecraft and that should have been a clue to you.

Very logical extrapolation, either hypothesis (humans from a parallel universe or from our own future) is as reasonable an explanation as aliens from another planet. This is the real problem here; just because a hypothesis is logical, and fits all the parameters of what's being observed, doesn't make it definitive (aka, the 'correct' hypothesis at the exclusion of any and all other possible hypotheses).



And, as you certainly know, no one has to "prove you wrong"....the burden always falls on those making the claim. When it comes to science the burden of proof is a tall order to fill, far beyond that needed for 'personal proof'. Those who've seen enough to personally convince themselves of extraterrestrial visitation need to keep this in mind.

As always, Lilly is right.

Skyeagle wrote..


Wrong again Sky. Most UFOs are terrestrial in origin. Those "big discs without sonic booms" , if that ever happend at all, is just another UNKNOWN in the muddy waters of the new religion called UFOlogy.

I have even said that before, so just concentrate on the UFOs in question because that is what I am talking about.



Why put yourself out on a limb, when the FAA had already released the evidemce on Japan Airlines Flt 1628, which shown that encounter occurred as reported by the aircrew. I mean, it was reported around the world and even by major American news broadcasters!! I am very sure you knew that as well.

An aircrew of an Air Force KC-135 and another commercial airliner made a similar report in the general region two months later and even the Belgian military confirmed the craft in its airspace exceeded the speed of sound and left no sonic boom.

So it has been known for decades that the objects in question have been exceeding the speed of sound and leaving behind NO sonic booms

____________________________________________________________________


UFO Encounter Over Belgium

Colonel de Brouwer has gone on to explain that the maneuvers executed by these objects were done at altitudes virtually impossible for the F-16 interceptors launched for investigation to duplicate. Equally alarming, when fully considered, is the fact that these aircraft operated at speeds which definitely broke the sound barrier, but with no shock wave registering, and no sonic boom being heard by ground observers.


To further add:


Physical evidence

Besides visual sightings, cases sometimes have an indirect physical evidence, including many cases studied by the military and various government agencies of different countries. Indirect physical evidence would be data obtained from afar, such as radar contact and photographs. More direct physical evidence involves physical interactions with the environment at close range—Hynek's "close encounter" or Vallee's "Type-I" cases—which include "landing traces," electromagnetic interference, and physiological/biological effects.

Radar contact and tracking, sometimes from multiple sites. These are often considered among the best cases since they usually involve trained military personnel and control tower operators, simultaneous visual sightings, and aircraft intercepts. One such recent example were the mass sightings of large, silent, low-flying black triangles in 1989 and 1990 over Belgium, tracked by multiple NATO radar and jet interceptors, and investigated by Belgium's military (included photographic evidence). Another famous case from 1986 was the JAL 1628 case over Alaska investigated by the FAA.

Physicists, engineers, and UFOs

Or, even aliens from the future.

No offense intended Lilly, but I'll be honest: I was just taking the p*** with my post. Nothing really but very subtle humor.



Your post though, is very reasonable, and I agree with it 100%. And that's no joke.

A comment and question though to those who argue that "it would be arrogant of us to think we're the only life in the universe"....I firmly believe we aren't the only life in the universe, but I also feel it would be very arrogant of us to think out of all the planets in the universe, ET has visited us. What is so special about Earth that some species more advanced than we would travel trillions of miles to investigate us? Sure, you can always answer, "Well, why not us?" but that doesn't answer the question. Our nuclear technology? It poses no danger to the Moon, much less the rest of the solar system, and forget about the rest of the galaxy. A hybrid species? For us and them to be compatible in any way requires a virtually parallel evolution (okay, so I wasn't [i]entirely[/] taking the p*** before) so improbable as to be just about impossible.

Resources? What have we got that the rest of the universe doesn't have? I'm not asking for speculation on why they're here, because that's necessarily a fruitless task. But instead, look at ourselves, and ask what makes us such a tourist hotspot? Especially for 57 different species (if you believe that)?

No, in all seriousness, I say we're nothing special in the Grand Order of Things, and for that reason, among others, it makes little sense for ET to come here.

IMO one reason people believe in the ETH is because it's comforting. We are special. Special enough for ET to spend time, energy, and resources to travel light years (even if they use the famed wormholes and it's virtually instantaneous, or interdimensional travel, or other methods which are at best theoretical to today's scientists) when they could make contact via radio waves, which is much cheaper and easier.

And if I'm right, and people believe because it's comforting (in one way or another), then not only will there never be enough proof to convince the believers otherwise (for instance, "We've searched for decades, but still haven't found any concrete evidence"), but any sort of logical proof is irrelevant. It's truly akin to arguing for and against the existence of God. There may be converts to one side or the other at times, but "proof" is nowhere to be found.

But both sides will always keep trying to convince the other. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Why do you need them, so badly, to be aliens?

...lol, not at you but the statement trillions of miles just to come and smell the roses...I once said to my uncle that if ET is here I doubt its to do that...smell roses. Though I hear this question asked alot, and I agree to some extant one would have to be some what arrogant to think that of all the planets and systems out there that ET would stumble or choose this one. To me though one could look at it from a different perspective, if were more akin to an intention, then it makes more sense then "them" stumbling upon us.

the whynsos doubt clouds the mind...so be happy when it rains