About that anal deal...How many here believe in alien abduction???

Well just to let everyone know I do watch the TV programs, read sites on the ufologists, and such. I am wanting very much to be true. Its just there never has been solid proof. And until that day, I will always try to find the logical explanation. I firmly believe that there has to be other civilizations out there. Are they coming here is the question, and with the current showing of evidence I'd have to say no. I am a skeptic yes, but I am willing to change my mind, and if fact look forward to the time I can change my mind with the correct evidence and proof showing such things exist.

I could not agree more. I do believe in life on other planets. Do I have any proof of this. No I dont. At this time no one does.

Yes, i know this, and with this case i beleive that the skeptic explanations are laughable. Its like they have not listened to what the witnesess have said, and just came to there own conclusions. If they did listen to what the witnesess said about what they sure, then i cant see how they came to the conclusions they have. Thats all im saying. I wont proof that ET is visiting here, and until i get that, then i am not convinced yet, but that does not mean that i have to agree with some very close minded skeptics and there de-bunking beliefs, because that what they are, they just stick the "scientific" word in there to get some non-believers on there side. Yes there are believers out there who will believe anything, but also there are skeptics out there who will just disregard everything. This case is important, and still unexplained, and just because some dodgy skeptic throws out some stupid explanations, that does not mean its solved, but to some people on here, it does mean its solved

mods, that your cue close this baby down.
so no one necro posts on it in a few weeks.

What are you talking about!!? If you dont like the thread,then dont come here.

pffft, ahaha. good one. ive like been on this thread more than you possibly lol (but that was still funny).
i was just stating that, because it seems like all the 'heavy hitters' were leaving it. and the thread would just slowly die down for a while. until someone does that necro posting. anywho, sorry for the misunderstanding. cheers.

True.

And then again,when asked for those links to the undisputed real proof of ET trace cases in a landsite investigated by J.Alan Hynek...Skyeagle said that he saw it on TV a wile back!!!???

You have to wonder...if it was such a "smoking gun" and that final pice of the UFO puzzle,were is the report?? Skyeagle posts everything els,all unexplained,at best...Were is this proof...that me,hazzard,among other skeptics, found extremly interesting.

I might be think differently if it weren't for my own UFO sighting in 1968 in Vietnam, whiere there were other similar cases in that country, which General George Brown revealed in an interview, plus my almost 39 years as a pilot and knowledge of aerodynamics, which is one of the reasons why other pilots who have encountered those objects have stated for the record, that the object were those of ET.

In fact, I posted the other day, remarks about B-52 crewmembers where one of them came out and mentioned extraterrestrial craft. That was in regards to the Minot AFB UFO incident where a B-52 enountered a UFO that was also witnessed by military personnel on the ground.

I might add that just last year, I was in a conversation with a radar expert from Minot AFB where he mentioned to me about his UFO sighting while stationed there, but that sighting had nothing to do with the incident the B-52 was involved in.

What it is, thousands of such cases have taken place and the public was not aware of what has been going on in the skies over their heads because these incidents are kept secret or not reported to the media. So, people go to work thinking nothing unusual happened that day, but not knowing that around the globe, interceptors were scrambled to intercept flying saucers that were never revealed to the public, which is why the public doesn't know what is really going on around them.

These are photos that I was talking about, which were also presented on the TV program. Lab test revealed that there were no earthly explanations for what you see in these photos.


http://www.cybercityradio.com/html/tedphillips.htm

I will let my baseball bat do the talking in that regard, and if I am abducted, I am going to try to hijack the flying saucer to Washington D.C., so if the president gets upset because his well-kept lawn at the White House is severely damaged, then I guess I will be to blame, but I am still going to hand the bill to ET, since they would have abducted me in the first place.

If you see me on CNN as I egress from the top of the saucer as I scream; "I TOLD YOU SO," then you will know that it is me!

And, if the aliens look like they were severely beatened, then you will know they tried and failed, to do their thing with the probe, which wouldn't be good in regards to cordial, interplanetary relations.

LOL what is the anal probe is their equivilent of our hand shake? And their sitting there going, "these are the rudest beings we met so far, we give our warm greeting and all they do is scream!"

They couldnt come up with an earthly explanation for what we see in these pictures!!?

You are telling me with a straight face that -Lab test revealed that there were no earthly explanations for what you see in these photos. Yet you provide nothing more then 3 pictures and your word that this is the case!??

If this is the best you have on Physical Trace Evidence, you have nothing.

I can think of lots of explanations for the ground to glow like that, depressed grass or soil, burned or broken vegetation, residues, and no vegetation years later. None of them Alien to this planet.

Actually this is called Farie Rings. And its nothing abnormal, unless fungus can be considered abnormal. Here is some pics of it, and these are not great pictures of it, they tend to be more of a perfect circle than these.


A very earthly explanation of it.

That is why it is important to have seen the whole story during the televised video because there was much more presented in that case, and another. The lab results inidcate the soil exhibited properties that were unknown, and could not be duplicated in the lab..

But, the lab results indicated no fungus, nor anything else of known origin, and that is why it remained unexplained. Besides, the photo you presented looks like my grass when I used too much fertilizer a few years ago.

And for a very similar reason: The grass has been killed. In the case of this picture, by fungal infection of the root system. These are extremely common in my area, especially this time of the year. Mushrooms popup overnight in yards in perfect circles called fairy rings, because they mark, as the fairytale goes, the ring ring around which the fairies danced during the night. In actuality, the near perfect circle is the outer edge of the main body of the fungal organism, the mycelium, that is beneath the surface across the circle's entire area. The circle itself marks where the fungal bloom occurred, the only place where it came to the surface to reproduce.

Fungus



or UFO parking lot? You decide.

By the way, I found a potato today that contains trace evidence of an ET-piloted UFO visitation. The one right next to it had a bite taken out of it, perfectly matched to The Biff's u-shaped jaw.

More when the lab reports back. The mushrooms are blooming, and I'm quite busy.

Well in that case, may I suggest we form a multilateral coalition to take on these meanicing beasts. WE MUST PROTECT OUR SPUDS!

I think I am at a point much like the OP. I have read thousands of pages and watched hundreds of videos on this topic, and I can't find enough evidence one way or the other. Skyeagle, you have presented amazing amounts of testimony from individuals, but as much as you wish otherwise there is no tangible proof to back it up, only if you take them at their word. Any video footage is suspect to say the least (which has been released on the internet) and all official reports on UFO outside the US has turned up nothing.

The problems I have with testimony which make great circumstancial evidence is that peolpe once believed in magic. They would swear that they had seen it and they conducted witch hunts based on it. In the end people believed they had seen it but in the end there was no proof. I call this the "They turned me into a newt" factor. I can't simply accept testimony from people especially when the government ahs been shown to spread disinfo on this subject.

All the government documents are great... if they could be trusted. The only ones that can be verified as government documents, ie released under FoI are interpretive at best and do not show the clear knowledge that people claim of the government. Again it is been demonstrated that government documents have been faked in relation to the MJ-12 and I find that more believable.

Lastly I have a real problem with these conspiracies. As soon as someone cries conspiracy I immediately start to question their rational judgement. There have been conspiracies in the past, but they are usually isolated and information gets out. If the UFO suppression is a conspiracy in the US this is not backed up in foreign countries, and inevitably any conspiracy theory gets widly out of hand and fantastical. The trouble is humans are, well, human. Mistakes are made and I can't imagine that they could even come close to organising a worldwide conspiracy of this nature.

I am still open minded on this, but alas I cannot rely on testimony alone without some scientific data to back it up. Yes I know about the radar data, but I still have not seen this analysed scientifically. I guess I'll wait a while, There are a number of interesting things happening this year including several governments opening their files and the NASA FOI case hopefully will net something. We shall have to see. And don't even mentioned some religious doomsday theory...

It the lab results were that of a fungus, then it is not what we are talking about, since the physical evidence at landing sites did not involve any fungus, nor anything known, which is why those particular cases remained unknown to this very day.

Nothing spectacular about those photos! I've done things to my grass with my lawnmower that would have shamed many crop circles.

Are we now talking; 'spud mutilations?'

its just strange, when i circular ring appears in the area, where i ufo has supposedly landed. thats all im saying.
and sometimes their are high levels of radiation there, and vegetaion doesnt seem to grow at all, where it was seen.

ufos have so many natural explanations besides alien spacecraft, which is incredibly unlikely, so why not explore a known phenomona

Skeptics tend to overlook certain things.......accidently on purpose!!

If I leave out certain things accidently on purpose, I just sit back and watch in amusment as the skeptics do their thing because they just won't do their homework!



If they had done their homework, they would have found the reasons why many UFO landing cases involving physical evidence remain unexplained after scientific analysis.

skeptics are very reasonable about ufos. the idea that alien aircraft are circle shaped is bad and would be a horrible design for intelligent aliens

I haven't seen any data that can impress upon me that these rings are nothing more than fungus or hoaxes created by humans. And obviously we did our homework showing that the Fungi Faire rings are identical to your "Martian" landers.

No doubt, you are correct, because I have stated many times that I am a skeptic when it comes to UFO reports. That is where I go to work to try and determine what is right, and what is wrong. However, there are closed-minded skeptics or 'armchair wanna-be skeptics' who are not interested in doing any homework, so they resort to ridicule instead.



Might be one of convenience. Flying over the country, you can see many circle techniques used by farmers, and I can remember years ago that someone suggested a flying saucer aircraft for transportation purposes.

TEXAS CALLING!!

See you all later, and I am outta here!!

actually this is the only public document that is out there talking about the posibilities of ET coming here. But it is proposed in the manuel as a hypothetical synario, not of actual fact.

i agree.

looking into the phenomona with a skeptical approach, its easily to solve every case, and "unknown cases" are either hoaxes, lies, and ambigious at best

Good post Shere Khaan.

All this its almost entirely anecdote. Someone says something happened to them...And, people can say anything. The fact that someone says something doesnt mean its true. Doesnt mean theyre lying, but it doesn't mean its true.

If someone came forth with compelling, bona fide evidence that were being visited, my reaction would be "Whoopee!" They would bring in the absolute best scientists in the world to study it, depending on what the evidence is like. And I dont doubt that there would be a lot of cooperation from the scientific community. I dont think that scientists are prejudiced to begin with.

Prejudice means pre-judging. Theyre post-judice. After examining the evidence they decide theres nothing to it. Theres a big difference between prejudice and post-judice.

Sorry, but i dont agree. Just because someone turns around and gives there opinion that it was swamp gas, weather ballon, shooting stars etc, that does not mean its solved. Thats the problem with the rendleshem case. Just because someone turns around and gives his or her opinion does not mean its case closed. Its easy for some skeptics or de-bunkers to turn around and say it was this and that, you could do that, and so could i. The problem is, on all cases, some skeptics and de-bunkers will always feel the need to put an explanation to every ufo case, no matter how stupid it sounds. In a way, you could say its a belief system, just like some skeptics say and ET visiting earth believers.

Anyone who can think for themselves should find the skeptics explanation for the rendleshem case stupid, considering what the witnesess say. But again, it turns into de-bunkers belief system that everything should have an answer they are happy with.

To be honest when someone attempts to *force* any explanation that is unreasonable (simply doesn't fit the evidence available), I'd classify that person as being a 'disbeliever', not really a 'skeptic'. Just my personal thoughts on the labels frequently used in UFO discussions.

Anyone with common sense and an understanding of scientific research/experimentation knows that eyewitness statements means only two things: Jack and Sh*t. And Jack left town. De-bunkers debunk. That is our lot in life. Its like saying a thief shouldn't steal. He's a thief! We true de-bunkers want a case that can not be misconstrued from other events occuring at that time, an event that doesn't only rely upon eyewitnesses and one that can be verified scientifically of actual evidence. Other than that, then any incidence claimed is only that, a claim, and as we all know claims are about as weak as they come. I can claim that I am Joan of Arc(which would be really weird since i'm a guy) but with nothing to back up my claim, then its really only nonsense. Belief is a structure of assumptions which some people are satisfied with. Others need evidence, which believers currently can not provide.

see, youre one of those Super close minded ones. you know, covering the ears "im not Listening! cant hear you! no listening!". which is just sad. its not easy to solve every case. its quite hard. now if you meant, its easy to put a theory to every case. yes, sure. ill agree with that.
and its kinda funny coming from a bigfoot believer.

If witnesess mean jack sh*t, then why bother trying to explain what they saw? whats the point? The problem is some people refuse to believe what some witnesess see, even if its more than one witness to a case, and thats where the stupid explanations come out. I could be out in my back garden and see a disc shaped ufo, as clear as day hover above me for 10 secs before shooting off at great speeds. Whats the bets some skeptics will turn around and say it was venus or a shooting star. They will never look at a witness point of view.

Just like the mod on this forum, Lilly. She saw a strange craft she could not explain, whats the bets someone will turn around and give another crap explanation on what she saw. Its a shame, but its a de-bunkers belief system, they just dont know its a belief system.

i wonder if the people sent to prison think the same way about that. do you think the judges do as well? who knows.



well, they try to anyways. and thats the most important thing. they try

Thats a joke,right!? How skeptical were you when you saw a TV show that claimed ET landing,evidence not from this starsystem,and pictures of round markings on the ground!!? And decided to believe it.

This is not skepicism,its blind faith based on nothing more then a strong wish for it to be true. No wonder you have a problem understanding the real skeptics call for real evidence.

wrong.
he see's the incident, THEN, does some research, then bases his opinion. as many 'us believers' do.
however, yes, some believe too easily.

Im quite sure that the some of the witnesess believe they saw something from another planet. But for me to be as convinced as they are,I need more then them telling me "their story."Or reading their story in some previously secret document.

Remember C.S - Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence...

10 presidents from 10 different countrys swearing on the bible that they saw an alien spaceship IS NOT EXTRAORDINARY EVIDENCE. Now,if one of them had a piece of the "craft" with him and sent it,like the moonrocks,to scientists world wide for testing....And they all came back with the same resault..ET...Now that would be a good start.

I need proof too that some of these ufo's are ET. I will not believe that some ufo's are ET until i see 100% proof of that. But what we do have are some very strange ufo cases, but that does not mean ET. What gets to me is, some people want to give an explanation to every ufo case, why. iTs because some people dont like to leave something as unknown, so they discard what the witnesses say, and form there own opinion and say case closed. Now, i have been proved wrong on some ufo cases, but i am happy with that, as thats the way you learn, but i cant stand stupid explanations put forward by some skeptics and de-bunkers on certain cases, and whats more worrying is people believe these explanations, no matter how bizzare they are.

You will never get these people saying, stuff like. Maybe you did see that, but i want proof. Instead you get these people come out with these stupid explanations and insulting these witnesess. Put it this way. If i saw a disc shaped ufo hover over my house for 10 seconds before shooting off. Whats the bets the same people will say i saw venus, or a weather balloon, or some other crap. The reason for this is they dont care what i saw, but they feel the need to de-bunk it anyway. I truly believe that some of these people get such a kick out of it, that if 100% proof did come about, they would be secretly pi**ed off. Yes i agree that we need 100% proof that ET is here, but i do not agree with some of the junk explanations that some of these people are coming out with.

With the rendleshem forest case i think it comes down to two things.

1- they did see what they said they saw
2- they are lying

The explanations are just a joke to tell you the truth, but because they put the "scientific" word behind it, then other people think thats okay, which is a shame.

yeah, its sad when people put forth explanations, that honestly seem harder to believe than what the eye witness said they saw. and its even more sad when people believe that explanation Without question. just because they dont want to believe what the person saw.

Short question morrison,short answer please. Have you seen any of that so far?

If so,what was it?

Well, their are cases where ufos are obvious craft, and move in ways that defy explanation. Do i believe they could be ET, i guess some could be, have i seen 100% proof that they are, the answer would def have to be no, but it's not impossible.

There is more than enough evidence that some ufo's are unexplained, and need further investigation. Thats the only way we can move forward and try and understand what people are seeing. The wrong way to go about it is to give stupid, ignorant explanations to every ufo case.

I think the problem goes beyond this. Cases by eye witnesses cannot be used as conclusive proof of aliens. It all comes down to the term "believers" and it accurately describes those who "believe" in UFO's. If I wanted to believe I would prefer God to little green men, at least that way i might live forever in heaven.

Past cases cannot be investigated more than they have. Previously I thought that the US government might have more data than they admit to on UFO's, especially considering the higher than top secret classifications they give to the subject. But no other nation has this ground breaking data that people have hoped for. Australia didn't, South American countries are starting to open up investigations to public scrutiny, but they have no answers. It seems that the UK and France have no definite answers but they are opening up this year and we shall see.

Ultimately I'm not prepared to believe in ET's (visiting us at this time). I am more than happy to be swayed by some kind of evidence that doesn't rely on people giving testimony in an environment that is cluttered by money, mistakes and deceit. Hell, that guy who did the alien autopsy made 7 million dollars from it and if that's not incentive to make hoaxes I don't know what is.

Exactly. I can't help but wonder why all the undisputable cases tend to fall into the catagory of unable to be explained within the definitions of our current knowledge. And for the most part, the truth seems to have a price tag attached to it. In that regard, I see UFOlogy as being no different to any any religion that allows its TV evangilists to spread the word from their luxurious mansions.

It's interesting to see the skeptics be attacked, and other believers left alone (despite how much willingness to believe is required to accept their more complex, all encompassing hybrid theories).

Does anyone remember Rense and UFOtheatre? Link

(BTW. Dark Mason on Myspace is no longer Brian Bessent, so don't go hating on that guy, please)

I agree with D here. It would be an absolutely transforming event in human history. But, the stakes are so high on whether its true or false, that we must demand the more rigorous standards of evidence. In Skys trace case claim, the evidence is non existing.

To all believers, try to adopt the scientific method of multiple working hypothesis. Right now, most of you have only one hypothesis and your minds are, in many cases, closed to the alternatives.

If there was is a claim that a brontosaurus is tramping through the jungles today in the republic of Congo. Should a massive expedition be mounted with government funds to find it, or it is so implausible as not to be worth serious sustained systematic attention?

To the extent that extraordinary claims require extraordinary investigations, those investigations must be true to the spirit of science. And that means highly skeptical, demanding, rigorous standards of evidence. And its not a hint of that from aliens on Earth believers.....

I think that the alien believers understand the need for physical evidence. Its the pathway to some degree of respectability. And for 60 years, theyve been telling us that real evidence is just around the corner, its about to be released, its being studied at this moment....and nothing ever comes of it.

I don't think none of you have answered my questions. We all know that we need 100% evidence that ET is here, we can agree on that. The ufo cases that are unexplained is because there is no explanation, not because of lack of some sort of evidence. To say ufo's is like a religon is a bit over the top, considering there is plenty of evidence that some ufo's defy explanation. My problem is, and still has not been answered is the skeptics who put stupid explanations to cases, just because they don't want to leave it as unexplained. De-bunking is a belief system too, and not good for the subject. Its easy to study a case where 10 people saw a ufo hover, as clear as day, then shooting of at amazing spends, to turn around and say it was venus, or some other stupid explanation. Most of the time, they will totally disregard what the witnesess saw, and come up with there own conclusion that is an insult to the witnesess. Thats why you will never get these people turn around and say, i need proof that you saw this. That is ok, but they feel the need to try and explain it with stupid explanations that have nothing to do with what the witneses saw. Believers want to believe that et is here, some believe everything. De-bunkers will refuse to believe any case, some will put forward some stupid explanations with the "scientific" work behind it. Both are belief systems, and both are not good for the subject.

Anyone who believes that all ufo cases are either hoaxes, liers, money makers etc, clearly don't know anything about the subject.