Not always belief from the eyewitness that influences the data.

Hypothetical example-

Eyewitness:"It was, shaped like a wedge, sort of metallic looking, looked like some kind of flashing red light underneath it. From the way it was moving, I don't think it was any aircraft I can think of. It seemed to follow me for a bit before I lost sight of it"
UFO Reasearcher:"Subject saw some kind of craft. Wedge shaped and metallic in appearence, with some kind of red strobe light underneath it. Craft followed him for a short period before he lost sight of it. Manouvering in a fashion that is not possible for any terrestrially designed aircraft to achieve"
The rest of us (after reading about it on www.ufosRus.net.com.org):"The witness is obviously talking about about an alien spacecraft he thinks he saw."

Yes, in some cases we don't really know what the artist(s) was/were trying to depict. However, there are many instances where scholars of Renaissance and Medieval art know exactly what the shapes are representing. For example, there are some hat shaped objects often seen in Medieval art, many modern people will see these as being UFOs. The objects aren't UFOs, they are Cardinal hats used to represent a Saint (I believe it's St. Jermaine). Other round lighted shapes are often manifestations of the Holy Spirit. If you look around that site I linked to, you'll find a great deal of *UFOs* that simply aren't really UFOs at all!

UAOs - Unidentified Artistic Objects

It may have been from that same site you referenced, Lilly, where the statement was made that many of the objects are only unidentifiable when viewed on the Internet, because the compression used on the images is lossy. The error gets reiterated across domains, and becomes more prevalent than the truth. What is perfectly discernible in real life takes on a whole new mysterious nature via the Innuhwebs. My, that sounds like a good summary of the Innuhwebs in general.

Evangium, that is a very good analogy of the news cycle for reports. "I don't think" turns to "is not possible" without the researcher ever seeing the error they've committed.

If Nasa had said proof of aliens, They would of definatly played that card already. Can you imagine the size of their budget if they could show their are aliens here visting, studying, or just flying around? It would practically be an open check-book. If there is ever proof, they will release it asap.

Indeed. Greater leverage for the release of budgetary contraints would be hard to come by

Cheers,
Badeskov

Not exactly, people from governments, especially north americans, are very paranoid. They would never release information of something they cant control.

If there isnt any evidence of et visitation why so much secrecy about the subject? Why not release the files about ufos?
They find necessary to keep classified what? Plasma balls, clouds formation, pictures of blurry birds or balloons?

maybe theyre afraid. and its why they dont release documents, or when they do, theyll have half of it blacked out.
or they lie, and say theyre not keeping tabs on the subject, and they dont care about it. but then they release docs from over the years they said they werent looking into it.

classified aircraft? top secret projects, and things that are not the business of the average citizen for the protection of the nation. It doesn't mean its little green men.

"Grey"...their skin tone is grey
but anyways, theyre talking about documents on ufos. why arent some of them released? people arent asking for info about military aircraft.

unless what they think they saw is really a classified project then yes, they don't have the right to know.

right. and that makes perfect sense to me as well. i wouldnt wanna release it.
but then explain to me why the gov. is taking reports on their own secret projects they have, from the public? or documenting it? and not only that, Why are they letting the public View them in action if its a Big Secret?
doesnt make sense.

They are so secret that even their our personal dont know about the existence of these projects?

The problem are the ufos who dont act as plane and are caught by radar and reported by the military personal, not civilians. Why they need to keep record and classify these envents?

Possibly to create a diversion or disinformation. Not directed at the american public, but for other countries and enemies of the state that are paying very close attention at everything that is being reported.

yeap. There are many need to know projects that noone but a few people know about. One of these, if its real, is the Aurora Project.

possibly. but is that why they still fly them infront of us?
and like anarkhy said, alot of the reports are from military personell. and seeing them on radar. so how does that work?

So, they create these fables about flying saucers to the public with the intention to divert the attention from a simple plane?

Im not sure, not a military man, but if I was to hide something, I would to be expose it, make it look like a hoax or something beyond what we know (e.t.) and brush it off. Much like the government responses have been throughout all of these sightings.

But these sightings are not only from us military, they exist all over the world. Then you need to have a global collaboration to create these hoaxes.

What ever happen to the search of that missing 1953 Scorpion jet that was scrambled to intercept a UFO?? Anyone know??



I thought it was a pretty interesting story. A couple of years ago, they said a diving team had located it.

But after that, nothing.

yeah same
every source ive been looking at, just says "it disapeared after chasing a ufo. then was lost. but now, it most likely has been found" and thats it. no details or anything

with all these ufos being seen, why cant anyone attempt to shoot at it, or get a good clear video, not a shaky one

Because we now know life can sustain itself without direct sunlight, such as near underwater volcanos deep in the ocean; it is obvious that these chemical synthetic organisms exist on other planets throughout the universe.

Planets like Mars and moons like Europa are still debatable, but I bet my money that small single celled organisms exist there. This fact alone (chemical synthetic organsims) prvoes life exists outside of Earth.

Does this mean intelligent life exists???

In my humble opinion, absolutely. By doing the math of all the stars in the known Universe and then finding the total number of planetary systems it is almost impossible that intelligent life did not evolve somewhere else.

Now to evolve to a species capable of building interstellar ships that are capable of making sudden movements that defy all known laws of physics and would seem likely to kill any passengers inside due to the sudden changes in direction taking into account inertial; are there organisms in the universe capable of building these machines?

In my opinion, absolutely.

I think this answers the OP questions. There should be no doubt in anybody's mind that simple celled organisms exist elsewhere, if you don't believe this then you have not made any rational conclusions. The same goes for the fact that it is more than likely that intelligent being exist somewhere and have maybe travelled to earth by some method that is out of our grasp for now.

I agree with most of what your saying.

The thing about the ETH that always bothered me is, how would they know about us at all?

There is only one way that they can tell from interstellar distance that intelligent creatures inhabit this planet....RADIO.

Our radio signals travel at the speed of light, and this means that even with infinitely fast spacecraft, the aliens cant be much farther off than 15 light-years to have reached our lovely planet by 1947,(Rosswell). The number of star systems within 15 light-years is about three dozen. Inteligent aliens that close.....Thats optimism of a high level indeed.

What about warp drive? Lightspeed? Maybe the aliens can create wormholes and get here in essentially no time?

It doesnt matter. To get here they need to know were we are, and that brings us back to the only way they can detect us at that interstelar distance...radio.

I would find myself extremely self centric if I said that there are no other intelligent civilizations out there, I am convinced there are many. But I highly doubt that any happened to be so close by that they have discovered us in our little, private corner of the galaxy.

How about observation? The same way we try to find planets around stars with satellites, once we have managed how to go to space and start to build and spread more advanced satellites all it takes is some time to find the most probably habitable place in the galaxy and go there to check.

"with all these ufos being seen, why cant anyone attempt to shoot at it, or get a good clear video, not a shaky one "

It's my humble opinion that shooting at them is a bad, bad idea, be they government, alien, or whatever.

For all we know there ARE clear videos out there. Who knows who would get to them first, or how quickly we passed them off as hoaxes?

In any case, let's see you dig out a good video camera when you're out and about and see something that would certainly make you shaky and panicky.

You know very well such undeniable proof either doesn't exist as of right now, or it is that no one here has the proof and/or means to access the proof. If it were there to be shown, you wouldn't be asking these questions or requesting information. And we certainly wouldn't be having this discussion in this thread right now.

Disclaimer-I did not read the entire thread so I apologize in advance if this has been stated before.

that is a very good point your making hazz! For the aliens to be here masking as some of our UFOs, first they had to detect us. And as the only way they can have detected us at those distances,lightyears away,is radio,we have a limit to were they might be from. The radio waves we have been sending out has now traveled about 80 lightyears from Earth.

Sure,they could have seen from telescopes that there is life on Earth,but for them to have seen "inteligent" life here,they have had to wait for our radio waves.

good point.

Then again (to be the Devil's advocate here), if an ET civilization was advanced to the point of figuring out some method to circumvent the vast distances involved in interstellar travel, perhaps they simply 'found' us just in passing? You know, ET is out for a 'Sunday drive' through the galaxy..."Hey, look at that blue planet over there, let's go and check it out!".

Ok, I'll admit it, wild speculation with zero evidence...but it's an interesting thought none the less.

And on that train of thought, I will now present the question many believers don't like to hear-
"Does ET believe in us? And if He does, does he believe in Humans the same way we believe in Him?"

With all the 'evidence' we have to go on (radar, eyewitness, random images), I'd say no He doesn't. At least not that we're a life form on the same level as Him. If we go on the 'evidence', then to ET, we're a curiousity that's on par with how we view tool using chimpanzees.
Any wonder then, that we don't have *that* smoking gun in our possession...

I dont think its that wild of a speculation Lilly, not as wild as some of the others Iv heard when it comes the the ETH.

ufos have more than 50 natural explanations rather than alien craft. why dont you look at every explanation instead of jumping to the idea that "its unidentified, so it must be alien craft"

List them please. Thanks.

here are some:

weather balloons, secret aircraft, birds, venus, tricks of light, atmospheric twinkling, mirages, blimps, clouds, the moon, meteorites, flares, hoaxes, hallucinations, lies, mass hysteria, myth making, insects,

And you forgot pie tins! I love flying pie tins!

And flourecent kites. Yes, believe it or not, some kids had some fun with flying kites at dusk here close to the top of a nearby mountain range (clearly seen from our living room windows) with some flourecent stuff attached - bugger me if that didn't look rather strange!

Cheers,
Badeskov

LOL. That is nifty! Smart little lads. Probably giving people a real good scare of invading ufo's. I'm going to do that with my boys when they get a little older.

I don't even think they considered what other people were thinking; they just had fun playing. I figured it was something like that as a lot of people also do paragliding from there. Nonetheless I still had to run to the car and actually drive up to see what the h... it was (about 12 miles) and it certainly wasn't what I had expected

Cheers,
Badeskov

Wasnt there also somekind of "chines lantern"....A baloon with candles??

idk, but their are also "will o the wisps", ball lightning, swamp gas, planes flying in formation

hmm, ok, some of those are like the same thing. youre just running out of the '50' so youre trying to make more.
but yes, some of those are explanations

also, how do people know the exact size of what they are seeing miles away? unless you have a radar device, people are very unreliable when it comes judging sizes of things that arent clear

...right
you cant judge the size of something that isnt clear? how is it not clear? sure people can see things at night which could make it look different. BUT many are in broad daylight. its perfectly clear.

but their are factors to suggest even day sightings are unreliable, and it doesnt matter whether people see they alleged "ufos" at night, day, recticulan time

true.
like what factors?

heat waves, season,

huh..............i was expecting a hell of alot more.
still, heat waves wouldnt really change it. because theyre still seeing the object. its not Super distorted. and im not sure how the seasons play a big factor. unless, its a crazy winter snow storm or white out, and then yeah someones 'description' could change. because its tought to tell what theyre seeing.
funny how youre the exact opposite on this stuff when it comes to bigfoot

You know I've always noticed the lack of evidence for the flying spaghetti monster!

He must be real!

woah, dont insult the big guy, hes my brother in law, and is very sensitive and has a low self esteem

bigfoot is unique, in which their arent plausible alternative explanations for people seeing a 8 ft tall hairy massive upright ape