For the sake of this thread, I am going to act as though I believe in Jesus

Jesus had many powers....IE the power to heal.........The power to bring people back from the dead........the power to turn water into wine (only wish I could actually do that myself lma)

Well I look at it like this.....

FAITH HEALERS - There are plenty out there that have healed those who where sick and dying...I know a lot of you would agree

TELE KENETIC - The power to move objects with the mind

MEDIUMS - Can see things we cant

To name but a few...

Maybe Jesus had those powers too...

So ... As we have heard of these people and from what I have seen, there are those that have seen these people work their magic ect

Could Jesus and these other people with powers be the 1st of the next step in human evolution?

Also if Jesus where here today and worked the same miracles as he once did in the past...would he be accused of witchcraft?

**EDIT** Just to make things clear as to why I call it evolution of the human mind....Eolution is not limited to just biology...here is why

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
ev·o·lu·tion /ˌɛvəˈluʃən or, especially Brit., ˌivə-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ev-uh-loo-shuhn or, especially Brit., ee-vuh-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. any process of formation or growth; development: the evolution of a language; the evolution of the airplane.

2. a product of such development; something evolved: The exploration of space is the evolution of decades of research.

3. Biology. change in the gene pool of a population from generation to generation by such processes as mutation, natural selection, and genetic drift. Look how humans have evolved from the Neanderthal Man...IE he was much taller, his brain was smaller ect we have come a long way

4. a process of gradual, peaceful, progressive change or development, as in social or economic structure or institutions.

5. a motion incomplete in itself, but combining with coordinated motions to produce a single action, as in a machine.

6. a pattern formed by or as if by a series of movements: the evolutions of a figure skater.

7. an evolving or giving off of gas, heat, etc.

8. Mathematics. the extraction of a root from a quantity. Compare involution (def. 8).

9. a movement or one of a series of movements of troops, ships, etc., as for disposition in order of battle or in line on parade.
1
0. any similar movement, esp. in close order drill.

No, because individuals don't evolve, populations do. Populations would have to gradually see these changes in allele frequency for it to be evolution.

That is of course, all contingent upon if these phenomena of faith-healing or such were real, which they aren't.

Prove they arent?? I have a feeling you cant

and dont sit there telling me ohh how you ...met a few that where fake ...you havent been in contact with every last faith healer

and another thing human minds evolve...they are always evolving..thats what I call evolution of the human mind...

man is becomming more and more advanced

Becky's Mom, thats not evolution. Evolution isn't about becoming more advanced.

Faith Healers don't exist. The human mind can do amazing things, as examined through the field of neurology. But I challenge anyone to find a suitable candidate that can stand the test of a hard experimental test in the broad realm of psychology. In fact, it hasn't been shown yet. Don't believe anything read in pop scientific magazines or on the news, because frankly it pisses off the true scientists in the field. I'm not a psychologist, but I am a biologist, and I know the constraints on the human body.

Just to add something.

It would still be evolution if the capabilities of the human mind got 'worse'.

Evolution is merely about change, not solely about getting better.

When life forms through time evolve into other life forms..thats evolution.....they became more advanced than they once were...after all isnt that how MAN came about??

So in say that...the human mind has become more advanced..so technically it has evolved


I asked you to PROVE this to me.............all you have done is give your POV on it....I asked for PROOF..now if you don't mind...make with the actual proof

quit stalling

A lot of those Christian healers and people who can supposedly read minds have been proven to be fake. I remember about a guy who claimed to communicate with the dead but then people later found out that his wife was giving him information on people's relatives and such through an ear piece. And those healers are fake too. If you take them to a hospital, I doubt they will be able to cure even a single person. A lot of these supernatural things have been proven to be hoaxes.

And by the way, evolution is not at all about becoming more advanced. Evolution is about changing to adapt to one's environment.

How will these people have an evolutionary advantage?

Do you mean that for example someone is psychic - therefore they can make lots of money as per John Edwards, secure a healthy young breeding partner and thus will be able to procreate more than someone who didn't have these powers?

Or you are saying that being psychic can give you knowledge that something bad may happen if you do X therefore you avoid X and survive to pass on your genes?

Just trying to get the logistics of it!

Your correct, that is how man came about. But with all due respect Beckys Mom, you are confusing the term evolution, or at the very least using it in the wrong context here. Evolution isn't about becoming more advanced, merely becoming more adapted to a given environment.



The human mind is the same as it was when the first humans were here. I can't tell you how many times I have heard undergrads say this in classes I have been apart of. We are no smarter than the first humans. We just have more to work with. We have the benefit of being able to learn and expand upon history.


Beckys Mom, I just proved that your accusation on the existence of faith healers or psychics exist when not a single one has been able to stand the test of science and hard experimental tests. If they did, wouldn't you think they would have a greater impact on the world? What do you want me to do, go through every single known psychic and provide evidence as to why he or she doesn't have the abilities he/she claims to have?

Having psychic abilities doesn't increase fitness and doesn't provide reproductive success. Therefore it isn't due to evolution. Otherwise we would have a ton of people running around moving stuff in their minds and healing people.

Becky, the human mind controls the human body through electrical impulses. Please tell me how the mind is going to do all these things. How is it going to heal people? How are electrical signals in your mind going to levitate objects?

Belgis is correct, they don't have an advantage. Evolution doesn't work on the level of individuals, rather it works on populations.

Hence, we would have populations of people running around in a certain area who were psychic, not one here or there who claims to have these powers.

Not all faith healers are christians

I for one cant prove them to be fake...just like I cant prove them to be real...but I have heard a few stories where people have been healed

SKY NEWS broadcasted a story last week on a woman who was NOT religious..but battled cancer for over 35 years..she said on the news, how someone brought her to see this faith healer back when the doctors told her she had only 6 - 8 months to live............the faith healer told her that she would live and beat the cancer...and she did..many years later she has even out lived some of the doctors that told her she wasnt going to make it...and she had 2 or 3 kinds of cancer throughout her body

I said TECHNICALLY it is evolution...when you look at how living things became more advance through time..they evolved...key word here is - ADVANCED....


No its not..man has slowly became more aware and his mind has become better educated...the more knowledge man picks up, the more advanced his/her minds becomes

If we where still like the caveman...we wouldnt be sitting on our backsides posting in a forum...so obviously MAN has progressed over the years..his/her mind has become more advaned..so TECHNICALLY that is linked to mind evolution

As I said

Please tell me how it cant? provide proof that it is not possible to hold any power....

I didnt say I know for a fact these people are for real..actually at the beginning of the thread..I also stated how I am acting as though Jesus himself were real...what I have simply done here is simple.....I have thrown out something to see if anyoe can give iews on how they see it.....

Becky that isn't really correct. Our technology has become more advanced - invention begets invention.

If I had been taken as a baby and time travelled to a tribe 5,000 years ago I would not have invented anything amazing - look at the inequity of living standards/technology around the world today. Pre-history in AUS was only just over 200 years ago. Aboriginals are just as smart as Europeans.

Try and make a stone tool like they did 100,000 years ago. there are only a handful of people worldwide who can do it. I have tried it - it is totally beyond me.

So few people actually understand how evolution works, when natural selection is such a simple concept. Allow me to explain for the purpose of disproving your super power theory.

You have a population of giraffe. Some have a mutation that gives them longer necks. There is no food in the area that can be reached without the necks. The ones with smaller necks die off, while the ones with tall necks pass on their genes and survive. That is evolution. Natural selection can only occur if a trait gives something a breeding advantage.

Which is exactly why I am debating with your misconception of what evolution is. Technically it doesn't work the way you describe it to, and I challenge you to find another biologist who disagrees with me.



Again, becoming better educated doesn't mean our mind has become more advanced. If the first humans were taught and brought-up in todays time period, they will be the same as us in terms of mental capabilities and they to will be sitting on a computer posting on forums.


I happen to specialize in cancer research, and what you are describing is nothing new. Isn't it funny how the news likes to 'play up' these claims but somehow happen to forgo showing how patients die the next day when they were given 6 months to live? This is one of the many reasons why I am skeptical as to us ever having a cure for cancer, because it is so difficult to deal with and predict.

Becky's Mum

Are you talking about the Indigo/Crystal children/adults were their brains and psychic powers are evolving more?

How can you say that man has not gained knowledge over the years..in order for his brain to become more advanced?

Let me explain what I mean


As children we go through learning stages..........but once we gain more and more knowledge...our minds grow, therefore become more advanced

Now not everyone will be that advanced to be able to perform a certain power...but there are those who INDEED can and have been seen as pure geniuses...even children...child prodigy..

Some call it a gift..a talent...I class that as being further advanced than the average human...technically with it being further advanced and is grown into something much bigger than the average human brain...then I see it as evolution in the mind

When you see how certain people can do extraordinary things.....things that we couldnt do...thats what I see as advanced...technically mind evolution...I used evolution because of the advanced steps ...

WHY are you telling me something I already know and FYI I support evolution

I again must stress..(because some have trouble reading) I said due to the word used ADVANCED and how they became more ADVANCED..that is part of evolution..because we all as humans became advanced..we came from animals and the animals came from other living things...when we formed into humans..that is called more ADVANCED...after all we do all seem to think we are the most advanced animal on this planet

Partly YES..but we must remember other people with much more abilities than the avarage human...IE the child prodigy...those that can do things we cant

I often wonder is man going to be ale to make use of more brain?? we only use like 10% or less I cant recall..but will it ever get to a stage where we eventually will be using more of our brain?

We use all of our brain... not ten percent. That is a myth based on an experiment performed on rats.

The problem is you aren't really using evolution in the correct context here, which I think is causing everyone a bunch of confusion.

Our mind isn't evolving. Someone brought in a good example in a previous post. By your definition, we should be able to make the stone tools easily. In fact, I can't and I doubt anyone else on this forum can if they hadn't learned how to do so. Its the same thing for the early humans. If they were in this time period and learned how to do computer programming, they could do it without any more problem than a modern human could. Child prodigies and the like are not products of evolution. Again, look up evolution in a science textbook or even on the internet, and everything that branches from that definition has nothing to do with individuals and everything to do with organisms on the population level and above.

Please post up some info on that if you dont mind...I would like to see it


Cheers

When you learn how to read..and understand what the word TECHNICALLY means..then I will respond to you...look it up

Beckys Mom, with all due respect you may support evolution but you have no idea what it means if you say statements like this. I am sorry if I coming about to harsh, but this is not what evolution says.

People are no more advanced then mice or fish, just better adapted to a certain environment. A fish is more able to live in water than humans, for example.



We use 100% of our brain, as messiah has pointed out.

Beckys Mom, I understand what the word technically means, and if you want to get into a debate of what evolution technically is, than by all means, I'm the biologist to do it with.

With all due respect cimber...but prove to me that evolution cant ever be seen as ADVANCED stages??

While you are at it..prove to me that we use 100% of our brain..provide info

The indigos/crystal are believed to be the evolving humans of tomorrow I have included a link which will explain it better than I can!


http://www.namastecafe.com/evolution/indigo/reality.htm

I seriously dont give a monkeys what you are...learn to read then come back to me...because you have trouble understanding simple words

sorry cimber it may sound harsh..but it gets long in the tooth having to repeat

Thank you for that

So I guess people strongly agree now that humans are not smarter today than thousands of years ago. Lets take it a step further, and ask if we are stronger (as in physical endurance and strength) today than what we were thousands of years ago...

Beckys Mom, I don't know why you are targeting me with your comments, but you have yet been able to explain how I am wrong in my definition of what evolution technically is, where as I, and others, have pointed out to you exactly where your definition is flawed.

Here is a neuroscience for kids article to explain the 10% myth to you.
http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/tenper.html

The word evolution has so many incorrect connotations that I try not to use it outside biology discussions. There is the evolution in the Darwinian sense, evolution in Uber human hitler sense and even the 'evolution’ of things like musical instruments/cars/lawnmowers. I majored for my undergrad in Archaeology and Paleoanthropology so I view it in the sense that Cimber does.

And sometimes if you are especially lucky you will see an argument composed of the mixing of all three types of 'evolution'

I targeted you?? Cimber dear...I only RESPONDED to your posts...because (shot in the dark here) you where directing them at me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now...When a creature evolves..obviously the brain does too...........the more knowledge the brain picks up...the more power it can be....not everyone can have these ailities..but I used the word ADVANCED because thats what it is....and thats why it technically can be linked to evolution...evolving..becomeing more advanced

I never once said the brain power is evolution...be careful on how you read my posts

You're intelligent, correct, and contradicting her point of view. Why not target you? And I love the ten percent thing. You see that tossed around all over the internet...

I tried to explain it on page two, but of course, I was ignored.

I see it in two different senses...the main one being living things evolving...but in this case the brain..its a living thing too..and can evolve with the right info...and from what I have been shown in this threead posted by angle...some dont need the info they already had it

When a species evolves, the brain does not evolve. You don't know what you're talking about. Read my post on page two.

So very pretentious of you....man dont you just love it when someone rides on someone elses back for answers

IE I asked YOU 1st to provide the info that Cimber just provided and I was civil about it.....you waited untill Cimber did it for you

imagine that!! eh?

So the brain never got bigger lol?? gimme a break...

Of course the brain got bigger..

How many senses of evolution do you know of?

or are you going to wait until Cimber answers for you again?

Your right Beckys Mom and I apologize if I was writing to you to harshly, but what I mean is others on this thread have corrected you as well, saying basically the same things I have.



Not necessarily. Just because a creature evolves, doesn't mean every part of it evolves. If an organism doesn't benefit from wings, its not going to evolve them for example. Just as humans can't evolve wings, (not only due to not being able to benefit from it, but due to physiology as well). The same goes for a larger brain.

Your position, if I am reading it right, is that people like Jesus (if he existed) and others who are faith healers and psychics, are the first steps in evolution of the mind.

My response...

ASSUMING these phenomena were true, it is still not evolution, because evolution is not a mechanism that works off of individuals or the amount of scattered people in the world that claim to have the ability. Evolution works on a population, which means that these people would have to have some sort of greater fitness and eventually would leave us humans without the ability, extinct. So far, there is not a population of psychic organisms in the world, which basically proves your notion wrong.

We are evolving all the time... We must be if you think about it, maybe one day in the future we may all be able to communicate telepathically.

For your first post, I corrected you with accurate information. If you ask for a site, saying the sky is blue, I'm not going to give you one. It's a well known fact. If however, someone, chooses to do that, I'm not riding on their back. As for this post, I already explained why the brain doesn't evolve on page two. But you ignored my post. So stay in the dark. I really don't care.

C'mmon fellows answer my question...I promise it's not a trick question!!

Cimber thank you for being decent enough to understand how you came accross...I appreciate it more..and due to your act of kindness...I will be more egar to read your posts and respond better

Now you being a bioligst look at evolution the one way...( im assuming)...I on the other hand look at it from different angels...

I never said that the power of the brain is evolution...<--please make note of this

However as I look at evolution in other ways (apart from how living things formed) I simply took the word ADVANCED and played with it...harmless choice of words...therefore I classed it TECHNICALLY like evolution of the mind....again harmless choice of words....

I appreciate the link you provided...to be honest...I always thought and believed we used 10% of our brains...and to add to that, it wasnt something I personally took intrest in..
I am not going to be one of those people that are too darn stubborn to listen....(only because you were decent about it)...so the least we can do is hear each other out

When it comes to evolution when talking about how we all came aout..yes I support it...thats why in the evo threads i rarely go in to debate against those that do support it

but again I must stress I never claimed it was evolution...Again I said technically and only because of the advance stages I used to describe the power of the brain

We are probably weaker as we don't use the muscels that they used to. Now we have bulldozers, diggers etc.. What do you think they used to to before the invention of tools and mechanics!

We still wouldn't be weaker. Unless there is some reason why weak people can reproduce more than strong people, our species' strength will remain the same.

Thats EXACTLY what I mean...see it took millions of years to get where we are now...but a lot of people who cant see much changing FORGET that things to in fact take time

At the moment we are only seeing a few signs of it

Who knows what humans will have evolved into in say another million years??

I know Angel, but they are saying that if we go back in time from a child and live with the ancient humans of yesteryear, we will be exactly the same as them in terms of intelligence.