It really is quite tiny, and I think the answer would be a rather easy one if I interested myself in reading the Bible. But I'm not a biblical person, and I don't intend to be.


I know that Lucifer, as the ruler in Hell, takes people who have fallen under temptation into eternal punishment. But why? Wouldn't that, essentially, be the tihng that the good guy would do? In all reality, what Lucifer does is remove those that are sinful, something that should be honourable if you believe sin should be punished, right? I understand he's the one that lures people into temptation, at least in basic Christian mythology, but if they go to him, and he takes them, does that not make the world a better place? So my question, to be summed up, is: If Lucifer removes evil from the world to be punished, how is he the bad guy in the story?

I am in no way a Luciferian, I do not believe in anything that remotely relates to Christianity.

Maybe it's just because I think too much, or because I've not learned enough about Christianity, but I'd definitely appreciate it if you would consider treating me like I knew a little more than I let on.

I'd also appreciate it, more than anything, if you did not try to sway me on my religious beliefs. I do not believe in God, and I do not intend to believe in a deity that expects worship, or you get eternal damnation otherwise.

I hope you don't mind my asking a question with a question, but what do you think of the possibility that 1- you are not eternally punished with pain and torture, and 2- that Satan will not be the ruler of this place even if it were so?

I only ask because that is what the Bible actually says about the afterlife. According to the Bible, Lucifer is to be imprisoned in a place called "Tartaros" and no human is ever described as going to this place.

All the best, Grissy

~ Regards, PA

Then it's just another assumption made up to scare people? :/ Sort of like how Lucifer is pictured as being some big ugly horned beast?

-

Honey if you dont remotely believe in anything relating to Christianity and are debating Heaven and Hell... I would suggest putting some perspective on things. Balance your mental knowledge and build it... with your spiritual self and your gut will physically tell you what works for you.

I'll say this... there is a grain of truth everywhere. Don't knock the Christians or Moslems or Buddhists or Hindus etc. I haven't found any ONE doctrination that is totally correct. They all mash together nicely in what truths work for me.

Learn with your head, feel with your heart and your body will confirm it.

Christianity is the belief in Jesus Christ and his saving power.
Biblical Christianity is the belief in the biblical Jesus Christ and Jesus can do what the bible says he can do.
I do not know if there is any name for those who believe in Heaven & Hell.
Luciferians believe in Lucifer. But, as far as Lucifer being given any rank, I don't know.
If you believe that Lucifer is the ruler of Hell, maybe that is 'Luciferellian.'

Seeing that people worship greedy things, i.e. things that can attract more, win more, kill the most, they're blinded to the blessings that are here.



Let's say Lucifer is the ruler of Hell and he 'takes' those who have fallen into eternal damnation. Is he crouching at the door waiting for you to fall?

The good guy sees you falling and pulls you up leaving Lucifer hungry.

Satans role is to to tempt us away from God and seperate us from God forever, just as he has been seperated from God by being cast out! He knows he screwed up, and he,s ticked at God and wants to take what belongs to God! And being seperated from God is a bad enough hell IMO! Hell was never created for humans, but for satan and the fallen angels! What happens when people follow him there i have no idea, nor do i want to find out! As long as we,re here on earth we may wander from God, but we,re not totally seperated from him as there,s always hope and redemption while alive! But as far as satan goes he,s doing a bang up job i,d say, but i don,t want to follow him at all! I,ll stick with the path i,m on since i really learned a few hard lessons! And the closer i get with God the more blessings and peace i find! But we,re all free to choose, and i,ve made my choice!

The police, in those cases, get the people off the street that could be harmed by that. See, there is no death to that; those people are still alive. As far as calling them criminals when an innocent man is 'stung,' is a bad thing. Because they catch people who do really stupid things like certain drugs or solicitation is ridding that area of the potential growth of the actions. The police cannot put a sting on to catch robbers unless they operate in every store which is what the cameras are for. Cameras are sting operations. If a thief is busted because he was filmed in the robbery, what excuse does he have?

yet in the bible God says - Isaiah 45:7 (King James Version):
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

so there is nothing 'Satan' or Lucifer or any such thing could do without first being created by God. Including our own actions. Case in point -

(Romans 9:17-18) - "For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I raised you up, to demonstrate My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth." 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires."

Looks like we are all actors in a play.

Is God really the one who created evil? To answer the question we must first look at how the word for evil "rah" is used in the Bible, examine the context of the Isaiah 45:7 passage, and look at other passages on the same subject.First of all, the Hebrew word for evil "rah" is used in many different ways in the Bible. In the KJV Bible, it occurs 663 times. 431 times it is translated as "evil." The other 232 times it is translated as "wicked", "bad", "hurt", "harm", "ill", "sorrow", "mischief", "displeased", "adversity", "affliction", "trouble", "calamity", "grievous", "misery", and "trouble." So we can see that the word does not require that it be translated as "evil." This is why different Bibles translate this verse differently. It is translated as "calamity" by the NASB and NKJV; "disaster" by the NIV; and "woe" by the RSV

The context of the verse is speaking of natural phenomena.

"I am the Lord, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me; ⁶That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other, ⁷The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the Lord who does all these." (Isaiah 45:5-7).

Notice that the context of the verse is dealing with who God is, that it is God who speaks of natural phenomena (sun, light, dark), and it is God who is able to cause "well-being" as well as "calamity." Contextually, this verse is dealing with natural disasters, and human comfort issues. It is not speaking of moral evil; rather, it is dealing with calamity, distress, etc. This is consistent with other scriptures. For example,

• "And the Lord said to him, "Who has made man's mouth? Or who makes him dumb or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?" (Exodus 4:11).
• "Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" (Amos 3:6).

It is not a moral evil that God brings, but calamity and distress upon people.

There are other verses that clearly show that God is pure and that He cannot approve of evil.

• "The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; a God of faithfulness and without injustice, righteous and upright is He," (Deut. 32:4).
• "Thine eyes are too pure to approve evil, and Thou canst not look on wickedness with favor," (Hab. 1:13).

We can see that the Bible teaches that God is pure and does not approve of evil, that the word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew can mean many things, and that contextually, the verse is speaking calamity and distress. Therefore, God does not create evil in the moral sense, but in the sense of disaster, of calamity.
http://www.carm.org/diff/Isa_45_7.htm
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Lt Ripley, You use this scripture alot (Isaiah 45:7, KJV) - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." )

And you are using it out of context. The scripture is this verse is dealing with natural disasters, and human comfort issues. It is not speaking of moral evil; rather, it is dealing with calamity, distress, etc. This is consistent with other scriptures.
I assumed from your post you don't agree that the bible is God's word but merely a history book, so why quote the scriptures if you don't believe it to be God's word?
If you will read the above scriptures you will see that God did not create evil in the moral sense in the sense that he created all evil on earth.
Please do not think I am trying to be offensive I am just pointing out the context of the scripture your fond of using.
Always a pleasure Ripley

"Honey if you dont remotely believe in anything relating to Christianity and are debating Heaven and Hell... I would suggest putting some perspective on things. Balance your mental knowledge and build it... with your spiritual self and your gut will physically tell you what works for you."

I'm asking these things because I have a lot of Christian friends that say things that don't make sense. I already have a religion, and I don't plan to look elsewhere for one. ;D


"Let's say Lucifer is the ruler of Hell and he 'takes' those who have fallen into eternal damnation. Is he crouching at the door waiting for you to fall?

The good guy sees you falling and pulls you up leaving Lucifer hungry."

I was thinking good guy in the sense that he's taking all of the bad people out of the world, a little ruthlessly, but hey, bad people are bad. xP



So evil just... was? If God is the creator of all things, how exactly did "evil" come to be? I've heard that Man can't manufacture things, for they were already made by God's hands. If that's so, how did he not make "evil", too? Did he not initiate the seven sins, the seven "evils", of the world?

I guess ever one has forgotten that Cain rules over Satan.

Satan by the way is also known as the Angel of Light.

Evil isn't a creation it is a choose.

Satan’s main purpose in dealing with man is to prevent mans birthright as leaders in heaven, a role he himself once held and lost because of his jealousy and self admiration. He does not care where man ends up as long as man does not stand in is way of regaining his lost power. Satan knows God’s mind, plans and our purpose as well as all the revealed knowledge of scripture better than any man that has ever lived, and will stop at nothing to prevent our created destiny from happening, if necessary by one soul at a time.

Do not be fooled by deceit because he is Master of it, he is the brightest angel in creation once known as the morning star (Lucifer the light bringer) beautiful beyond imagination, no horns no pitchfork no evil looks’ in fact to those that do not know Christ would not be able to tell them apart standing side by side.

If he is unable to convince you that he does not exist he will masquerade himself as a pagan god from legend and myth (Kronos, Pan). He dose not care what belief or soul exists only that nothing will stand in his way of his self proclaimed importance.

Irish

Well, I don't think the Devil is doing the world any favours by taking in the evildoers. Because he does it after they've done all their bad stuff and died. So, he's not really ridding the world of any evil - he has to wait until they die. Ergo, the people who choose to be evil aren't stopped , and the Devil can't take anyone unless they are evil.

I'm answering your question in the context that you asked it, from what I have heard and learned, because I personally do not believe there is a hell.

It was a juke played by the Papacy to intimidate people into supplying money to the Holy Roman Church so that their sins would be absolved and they could avoid such a 'firey' made-up place. The same with Purgatory. It was made up to get money from the people to fund the empire. Now, why such a place still haunts the faith of some people: 1) Its comforting for some to think that they played a part in avoiding it 2) It was passed on in tradition and superstition

The Bible used figurative discription of the angel Lucifer to describe Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon. In all sense, God had promised to bring low the glory in Nebuchadnezzar's heart. The king of Babylon would no longer be seen as great in the eyes of the world but as withered and diminished, as though bound in Tartaros (a greek name for a place and figuratively used to describe Nebuchadnezzar's condition.) The Jews probably called it Gehenna; a place from which recovery was impossible.