Whenever my mind goes from trying to understand the very nature of UFOs , to trying to understand why these things are here. I run into a blockade, where from a seemingly logical and believable phenomenon, it becomes an element of the human psyche. Collective at that too. As a true explorer of things that are not easily understood, i neither take a stance nor deliberate of view. I believe in Socrates idea that we can find truth through discussion.
When it comes to abductions i get this uneasy feeling in my thoughts. When reconstructing the premised events in my mind, i find that there is a problem with the concept of an advanced entity truly existing in the abductee's recognition.
Part of the confusion involves what i learn in anthropology.Which in some ways , at least theologically and culturally is almost like taking into account an alien mindset.As an example, i cant fathom the righteousness a headhunter feels in committing their ritual or even the concept of individual life worth as it varies from my north American perspective.
We are armed with only our history as a guideline. The human history. Which physically at any rate is not linear, in terms of evolutionary process. Not all the primates walked bipedal first, some were tool makers, some had an advancement of the brain first. It all really was at different rates for different species. Yet, when it came to cultural advancement, all humans and relatives of human lineage obtained things at the same time.What i mean is, we all got fire , at the same time. distance and separation of individual racial hybrids still got that technology. Yes this is stunning and like i am enthralled at it. But you see, what i am saying in regards to my post is, as a cultural thing, it seems that things must go a certain way.
referring back to our history, we can find that in order to have the technology we do, we had to make incredible advancements in our moral structure.here is where i first get confused. If an alien race really is in any way advanced, so depicted by their technology then, they most surely have a morale structure. Further, as some abductees and contacts report they are spiritually inclined towards a ecological and cleaning of damage done by our rampant discourse with technology, say for instance the impeding ozone layer situation. Then surely, they would have not only a strong moral code, but in such an advancement have no need or spiritual desire to inflict some of the stuff abductees report.
This is hard to grasp as one reads the discourse from the interviewer and the witness. They relate deceit , physical and emotional duress , immoral abuse of a person's self and rape. This is simply not possible i think. No advanced society in any way would even remotely seek abuse of a lesser creature. We ourselves have highly motivational and active groups with (albeit radical measures) the intention of preventing such a thing becoming accepted. Animal rights activists are incredibly right , in their philosophy towards the prevention of sick things happening to animals. The point in this is that, i see human activity in the aliens. Not in the brute method they do things , but in the very nature that they depict they can do them. As if they have lesser standards then even we do.
so morally, i am left questioning if it is an alien race.
secondly, i don't understand that if they are here. A fact i have no reason to believe or disbelieve. Why if they are, do they not show themselves? if we take the conspiracy theories to any degree of example. Then they surely are way more powerful then us. They surely can pretty much do what ever with great impunity .in all real sense there is no real reason they shouldn't. It isn't as if us knowing they are here or not would stop any agenda so delineated in the conspiracies we see theorized. a world wide panic for instance wouldn't prove debilitating to a supremely dominate species.The manner which the abductees report the contact method these aliens choose. secretive and malevolent individually doesn't really seem or feel like the work of anything superior or alien. it actually feels or seems more like a typical human trait. There would be no difference between a nazis sicko surgeon committing experiments then the aliens as they are purported to be. to make one's self known that way is to breed fear and mistrust.
any race that nears earth from prehistory to now would know that any contact made short of a big event will be discounted. It would be the first thing one knows about us. our superstition and denial is so strong we can effectively sacrifice against our own will to live, if we believe something strong enough.so to appear and declare a person as the special envoy and leave them to try and rationalize the event with fellow humans, would be certainly known to be in effectual as far as communicating their presence or intent. to say they are weeding those who believe or not or even just thinning out the believers is not only unfair, but insensitive to humanity as a whole. We are not given a chance to even remotely believe. so it still doesn't feel like a human vs alien event.
so far i have appeared skeptical i am not, i am just confused. None of the stuff makes sense.
two questions remain unanswered
why are they here and why have they not shown themselves.
Full Version: Why do abductions exist?
Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Extraterrestrial Life & The UFO Phenomenon
Well if they are happening i suspect they are abducting us and tagging us just like we tag different kinds of animals . Catch and release
Well i can only say this that who is here and abducting us should have collected enough evidence or in lingo created a profile of a human abductee's portfolio. Why are they still doing it is beyond my thought. Perhaps its our goverment trying to test new technology or perhaps they're actually aliens trying to gather enough DNA information to create a hybird alien/human. Imagine human beings going to the moon and they find a miniature dog just running around actually they find a 100 or so of these moon dogs runing around and they catch one bring it inside the lunar moduel and conduct primitive experiments on its lungs or its ability to breath or live in a vacume of space and on such a desolate envoirment. What would the moon dogs say after it has been abducted by the space suit dudes? Well imagine vice versa with human beings on this planet. Or imagine if eve hadn't eaten the apple?
They are collecting evidence to proof to other aliens that humans are real.
It is very easy question.Aductions happen,bacuase bad extraterrestials wanna test our dna.They use implants too.
QUOTE (wiredbadger @ Feb 9 2008, 04:37 AM) 
Yet, when it came to cultural advancement, all humans and relatives of human lineage obtained things at the same time.What i mean is, we all got fire , at the same time. distance and separation of individual racial hybrids still got that technology.
Any evidence for any of that, wiredbadger?
QUOTE
so morally, i am left questioning if it is an alien race.
I can see where you're coming from with the 'moral argument against alien abduction'... I agree the idea of AA doesn't make much sense. But then we do tend to anthropomorphise in our ideas of what aliens could or should be like; there could be an argument that whatever they think they're doing, we certainly can't explain it in our own moral terms. But then perhaps the fact that we do actually recognise what alleged abductees claim the aliens did to them as human activities (vivisection, sexual assault) shows that human morality does in fact apply here.
Either way, the lack of any evidence as to the veracity of AA leaves it over there in the 'not true until convincing evidence is submitted' pile.
QUOTE
Why if they are, do they not show themselves?
It could be argued here also, that if aliens existed we would have little chance of guessing the motivations behind their behaviour. But the 'not showing themselves' thing is more than reminiscent of a common and convenient conceit (CCC) on the part of the believer: "I know that aliens/God/fairies/pixies/gnomes/borrowers/Transformers exist, yet I don't have any evidence of any kind. Therefore they are hiding, for no reason."
QUOTE (dreamland @ Feb 9 2008, 05:54 AM)
Aductions happen,bacuase bad extraterrestials wanna test our dna.
Why?QUOTE
They use implants too.
What for?If these aliens who abduct human beings are doing science, then they're doing rubbish science: they manage to have picked a nontypical sample, as shown by Chris French and colleagues, who found that people claiming to have been abducted by aliens differ in certain measures of aspects of their personalities to nonabductees. In fact, they eerily seem to have selected a sample which consists of people who are more likely to imagine things like alien abduction in the first place. What are the odds?
QUOTE (Nucular @ Feb 9 2008, 07:18 PM)
Any evidence for any of that, wiredbadger?
Yes, the homo erectus from asia, from africa and in other parts of the world all had identical tool technology. The handaxe they fashioned was the same in all places. To illustrate this i would have to rewrite my archeology textbook and physical anthropology text book. If you are requesting a link , it being a scientific knowledge would be easy to find. I am instructed in class that using the net to prove arguments is weak and unless i can find a university or reliable authority that is refutable and citable its pretty much useless as a fact.
The moral thing i point out is interesting, when i have tried to explain the moral vantage people seem to be willing to accept that since we do it to animals.( not as much as we used to i may add) then we certainly are no different to an alien. I try to explain that if a dog can and showed absolute ability to rationale or even a rat depicted rudimentary intellect towards rational thinking and the ability to abstract then i doubt we would have. see we are not animals , in the sense of our ability to think and rationalize and communicate, in fact if we were all dr doolittles i imagine the statement would be different in historical perspective towards animal testing.does this make sense?
QUOTE (anarkhy @ Feb 9 2008, 05:45 AM)
They are collecting evidence to proof to other aliens that humans are real.
interesting idea, why would there be repeat visits?
QUOTE (dreamland @ Feb 9 2008, 05:54 AM)
It is very easy question.Aductions happen,bacuase bad extraterrestials wanna test our dna.They use implants too.
I am not clear why they would be seen as bad. The ones that are depicted are certainly depicted as bad. They are even categorized into speciation and now are referred to as greys. this in theory can be no different then taking all the prime numbers and organizing them into groups with the phenomenon of not being able to be divisible into whole numbers.(notice how even if i use that model i am left saying yea but there are exceptions?) then i would be forced to say that it is a possibility.not a fact. Why would they wanna test our dna? why would there be a ongoing agenda all you would need is one sample. We can find out that humans are not related directly to neandratals based on mTdna .That mTdna is fossilized not even living in the now. That we can do this in our basic and presumably less technology would mean that they obviously would have some means that requires not even contact. wouldn't it?
QUOTE (spikeman25 @ Feb 9 2008, 04:54 AM)
Well if they are happening i suspect they are abducting us and tagging us just like we tag different kinds of animals . Catch and release
that is an interesting idea as well. But seeing as how we live in all areas of the earth. Not in natural habitat even. any information wouldn't really be valid as a true factor in our unique existence. even if it was to follow the physiological effect living in human culture has on the human animal. we still have so much conditional and non falsifiable quantifiers, ie the crusades, spread of christianism, versus spiritualism and tribal animism. technology vs naturalism. individual rights versus worker ant . caste systems, all these thing contribute to the foods and the type of life. sitting in a desk job versus working the oil lines. seeing as how its mostly rationally and irrationally decided there would be no real scientific point in tagging.
thank you all of you for responding to the post. I feel that there is a true thing happening , i am in no way believing that the victims are making it up. It just seems to contradict itself as to what exactly is happening.hence the discussion.
QUOTE (anarkhy @ Feb 9 2008, 06:45 AM)
They are collecting evidence to proof to other aliens that humans are real.
I wonder what their skeptics are saying.
It always seems odd to me to discuss the logic of a possible alien race. How arrogant are we to assume we could understand what they were doing?
Anyway, I'm certain the abduction phenomena is legit. I don't know if it is aliens, demons, fairies, whatever, but something is going on.
Anyway, I'm certain the abduction phenomena is legit. I don't know if it is aliens, demons, fairies, whatever, but something is going on.
It's much more easy to prove an UFO landed near your home than proving alien abductions, I'm very skeptic about this subject... Then again you've all heard the story of the cows that get their hearts ripped out and only aliens could do this as there were no outside cuts.. interesting stuff alright.. in other words, I see alien abductions as impossible as spirit possession.
QUOTE (wiredbadger @ Feb 9 2008, 07:52 PM)
Yes, the homo erectus from asia, from africa and in other parts of the world all had identical tool technology. The handaxe they fashioned was the same in all places.
But there's nothing to indicate that the handaxe was invented simultaneously in all places. It's more likely that, as with any invention, it was developed by one group, and spread with migration and cultural interaction. Indeed, the spread of such technology is sometimes used to map these migrations and interactions. Or perhaps I've misunderstood you?
QUOTE
To illustrate this i would have to rewrite my archeology textbook and physical anthropology text book. If you are requesting a link , it being a scientific knowledge would be easy to find. I am instructed in class that using the net to prove arguments is weak and unless i can find a university or reliable authority that is refutable and citable its pretty much useless as a fact.
Yes, it is good form to cite the academic literature where available. If it is 'scientific knowledge' that the handaxe was simultaneously developed by all groups of Homo erectus at once, then a reference and summary of the content would suffice.
QUOTE (Sweetpumper @ Feb 9 2008, 08:03 PM)
I wonder what their skeptics are saying.
I suppose they're saying something derogatory about 'big pink men', or something.
QUOTE (floydtheater07 @ Feb 9 2008, 08:25 PM)
It always seems odd to me to discuss the logic of a possible alien race. How arrogant are we to assume we could understand what they were doing?
Anyway, I'm certain the abduction phenomena is legit. I don't know if it is aliens, demons, fairies, whatever, but something is going on.
True .And i also think it's arrogant to say we are the only inteligent beings out there. I think what it is people would like to believe that we are that special to be the only ones, I just don't think it's the case at all.Anyway, I'm certain the abduction phenomena is legit. I don't know if it is aliens, demons, fairies, whatever, but something is going on.
QUOTE (spikeman25 @ Feb 10 2008, 08:33 AM)
True .And i also think it's arrogant to say we are the only inteligent beings out there. I think what it is people would like to believe that we are that special to be the only ones, I just don't think it's the case at all.
I agree. Except I'd go a stage further and say that it's arrogant of us to think that we're special enough for advanced beings to want to come and visit us; and especially arrogant to think that they'd be interested enough in individuals to kidnap them in the night.
It's highly likely that there are many other intelligent beings out there in the universe; but it's highly unlikely that any of them have ever come anywhere near us, in even astronomical terms, ever.
Yes, it's possible, but that's a claim which has to be judged on its evidence, which is (to grossly understate it) flimsy at best.
QUOTE (wiredbadger @ Feb 9 2008, 04:37 AM)
Whenever my mind goes from trying to understand the very nature of UFOs , to trying to understand why these things are here. I run into a blockade, where from a seemingly logical and believable phenomenon, it becomes an element of the human psyche. Collective at that too. As a true explorer of things that are not easily understood, i neither take a stance nor deliberate of view. I believe in Socrates idea that we can find truth through discussion.
When it comes to abductions i get this uneasy feeling in my thoughts. When reconstructing the premised events in my mind, i find that there is a problem with the concept of an advanced entity truly existing in the abductee's recognition.
Part of the confusion involves what i learn in anthropology.Which in some ways , at least theologically and culturally is almost like taking into account an alien mindset.As an example, i cant fathom the righteousness a headhunter feels in committing their ritual or even the concept of individual life worth as it varies from my north American perspective.
We are armed with only our history as a guideline. The human history. Which physically at any rate is not linear, in terms of evolutionary process. Not all the primates walked bipedal first, some were tool makers, some had an advancement of the brain first. It all really was at different rates for different species. Yet, when it came to cultural advancement, all humans and relatives of human lineage obtained things at the same time.What i mean is, we all got fire , at the same time. distance and separation of individual racial hybrids still got that technology. Yes this is stunning and like i am enthralled at it. But you see, what i am saying in regards to my post is, as a cultural thing, it seems that things must go a certain way.
referring back to our history, we can find that in order to have the technology we do, we had to make incredible advancements in our moral structure.here is where i first get confused. If an alien race really is in any way advanced, so depicted by their technology then, they most surely have a morale structure. Further, as some abductees and contacts report they are spiritually inclined towards a ecological and cleaning of damage done by our rampant discourse with technology, say for instance the impeding ozone layer situation. Then surely, they would have not only a strong moral code, but in such an advancement have no need or spiritual desire to inflict some of the stuff abductees report.
This is hard to grasp as one reads the discourse from the interviewer and the witness. They relate deceit , physical and emotional duress , immoral abuse of a person's self and rape. This is simply not possible i think. No advanced society in any way would even remotely seek abuse of a lesser creature. We ourselves have highly motivational and active groups with (albeit radical measures) the intention of preventing such a thing becoming accepted. Animal rights activists are incredibly right , in their philosophy towards the prevention of sick things happening to animals. The point in this is that, i see human activity in the aliens. Not in the brute method they do things , but in the very nature that they depict they can do them. As if they have lesser standards then even we do.
so morally, i am left questioning if it is an alien race.
secondly, i don't understand that if they are here. A fact i have no reason to believe or disbelieve. Why if they are, do they not show themselves? if we take the conspiracy theories to any degree of example. Then they surely are way more powerful then us. They surely can pretty much do what ever with great impunity .in all real sense there is no real reason they shouldn't. It isn't as if us knowing they are here or not would stop any agenda so delineated in the conspiracies we see theorized. a world wide panic for instance wouldn't prove debilitating to a supremely dominate species.The manner which the abductees report the contact method these aliens choose. secretive and malevolent individually doesn't really seem or feel like the work of anything superior or alien. it actually feels or seems more like a typical human trait. There would be no difference between a nazis sicko surgeon committing experiments then the aliens as they are purported to be. to make one's self known that way is to breed fear and mistrust.
any race that nears earth from prehistory to now would know that any contact made short of a big event will be discounted. It would be the first thing one knows about us. our superstition and denial is so strong we can effectively sacrifice against our own will to live, if we believe something strong enough.so to appear and declare a person as the special envoy and leave them to try and rationalize the event with fellow humans, would be certainly known to be in effectual as far as communicating their presence or intent. to say they are weeding those who believe or not or even just thinning out the believers is not only unfair, but insensitive to humanity as a whole. We are not given a chance to even remotely believe. so it still doesn't feel like a human vs alien event.
so far i have appeared skeptical i am not, i am just confused. None of the stuff makes sense.
two questions remain unanswered
why are they here and why have they not shown themselves.
To answer your questions in reverse order:- They have not shown themselves because they're not here. It's that simple.
When it comes to abductions i get this uneasy feeling in my thoughts. When reconstructing the premised events in my mind, i find that there is a problem with the concept of an advanced entity truly existing in the abductee's recognition.
Part of the confusion involves what i learn in anthropology.Which in some ways , at least theologically and culturally is almost like taking into account an alien mindset.As an example, i cant fathom the righteousness a headhunter feels in committing their ritual or even the concept of individual life worth as it varies from my north American perspective.
We are armed with only our history as a guideline. The human history. Which physically at any rate is not linear, in terms of evolutionary process. Not all the primates walked bipedal first, some were tool makers, some had an advancement of the brain first. It all really was at different rates for different species. Yet, when it came to cultural advancement, all humans and relatives of human lineage obtained things at the same time.What i mean is, we all got fire , at the same time. distance and separation of individual racial hybrids still got that technology. Yes this is stunning and like i am enthralled at it. But you see, what i am saying in regards to my post is, as a cultural thing, it seems that things must go a certain way.
referring back to our history, we can find that in order to have the technology we do, we had to make incredible advancements in our moral structure.here is where i first get confused. If an alien race really is in any way advanced, so depicted by their technology then, they most surely have a morale structure. Further, as some abductees and contacts report they are spiritually inclined towards a ecological and cleaning of damage done by our rampant discourse with technology, say for instance the impeding ozone layer situation. Then surely, they would have not only a strong moral code, but in such an advancement have no need or spiritual desire to inflict some of the stuff abductees report.
This is hard to grasp as one reads the discourse from the interviewer and the witness. They relate deceit , physical and emotional duress , immoral abuse of a person's self and rape. This is simply not possible i think. No advanced society in any way would even remotely seek abuse of a lesser creature. We ourselves have highly motivational and active groups with (albeit radical measures) the intention of preventing such a thing becoming accepted. Animal rights activists are incredibly right , in their philosophy towards the prevention of sick things happening to animals. The point in this is that, i see human activity in the aliens. Not in the brute method they do things , but in the very nature that they depict they can do them. As if they have lesser standards then even we do.
so morally, i am left questioning if it is an alien race.
secondly, i don't understand that if they are here. A fact i have no reason to believe or disbelieve. Why if they are, do they not show themselves? if we take the conspiracy theories to any degree of example. Then they surely are way more powerful then us. They surely can pretty much do what ever with great impunity .in all real sense there is no real reason they shouldn't. It isn't as if us knowing they are here or not would stop any agenda so delineated in the conspiracies we see theorized. a world wide panic for instance wouldn't prove debilitating to a supremely dominate species.The manner which the abductees report the contact method these aliens choose. secretive and malevolent individually doesn't really seem or feel like the work of anything superior or alien. it actually feels or seems more like a typical human trait. There would be no difference between a nazis sicko surgeon committing experiments then the aliens as they are purported to be. to make one's self known that way is to breed fear and mistrust.
any race that nears earth from prehistory to now would know that any contact made short of a big event will be discounted. It would be the first thing one knows about us. our superstition and denial is so strong we can effectively sacrifice against our own will to live, if we believe something strong enough.so to appear and declare a person as the special envoy and leave them to try and rationalize the event with fellow humans, would be certainly known to be in effectual as far as communicating their presence or intent. to say they are weeding those who believe or not or even just thinning out the believers is not only unfair, but insensitive to humanity as a whole. We are not given a chance to even remotely believe. so it still doesn't feel like a human vs alien event.
so far i have appeared skeptical i am not, i am just confused. None of the stuff makes sense.
two questions remain unanswered
why are they here and why have they not shown themselves.
To answer your questions in reverse order:- They have not shown themselves because they're not here. It's that simple.
QUOTE (wiredbadger @ Feb 9 2008, 02:37 PM)
referring back to our history, we can find that in order to have the technology we do, we had to make incredible advancements in our moral structure.here is where i first get confused. If an alien race really is in any way advanced, so depicted by their technology then, they most surely have a morale structure. Further, as some abductees and contacts report they are spiritually inclined towards a ecological and cleaning of damage done by our rampant discourse with technology, say for instance the impeding ozone layer situation. Then surely, they would have not only a strong moral code, but in such an advancement have no need or spiritual desire to inflict some of the stuff abductees report.
This is hard to grasp as one reads the discourse from the interviewer and the witness. They relate deceit , physical and emotional duress , immoral abuse of a person's self and rape. This is simply not possible i think. No advanced society in any way would even remotely seek abuse of a lesser creature. We ourselves have highly motivational and active groups with (albeit radical measures) the intention of preventing such a thing becoming accepted. Animal rights activists are incredibly right , in their philosophy towards the prevention of sick things happening to animals. The point in this is that, i see human activity in the aliens. Not in the brute method they do things , but in the very nature that they depict they can do them. As if they have lesser standards then even we do.
so morally, i am left questioning if it is an alien race.
This is hard to grasp as one reads the discourse from the interviewer and the witness. They relate deceit , physical and emotional duress , immoral abuse of a person's self and rape. This is simply not possible i think. No advanced society in any way would even remotely seek abuse of a lesser creature. We ourselves have highly motivational and active groups with (albeit radical measures) the intention of preventing such a thing becoming accepted. Animal rights activists are incredibly right , in their philosophy towards the prevention of sick things happening to animals. The point in this is that, i see human activity in the aliens. Not in the brute method they do things , but in the very nature that they depict they can do them. As if they have lesser standards then even we do.
so morally, i am left questioning if it is an alien race.
There have been 90,000 innocent civilian casulties as a result of the allied forces occupation in Iraq. And you can't understand why 1 alien craft could possibly cause harm to a human being?
There may be some wonderful people on our planet but for everyone their are shockers. You just have to consider what Hitler or Bush may do if their causes extended beyond the realms of earth and out into the universe.
I hear Saturn has WMD...
QUOTE (Nucular @ Feb 10 2008, 03:02 PM)
I agree. Except I'd go a stage further and say that it's arrogant of us to think that we're special enough for advanced beings to want to come and visit us; and especially arrogant to think that they'd be interested enough in individuals to kidnap them in the night.
pfft. how is that arrogant at all?
if theres a race out there, and they see 9 planets orbiting a sun. they then notice the blue and green one, holding water. and then realize its inhabited. now, Logically speaking, another race would moooost likely observe it, as opposed to the 9th one. which is frozen and dark, and lacking life. which is what we would do.
wouldnt that make sense?
QUOTE (Agent. Mulder @ Feb 11 2008, 04:03 AM)
pfft. how is that arrogant at all?
if theres a race out there, and they see 9 planets orbiting a sun. they then notice the blue and green one, holding water. and then realize its inhabited. now, Logically speaking, another race would moooost likely observe it, as opposed to the 9th one. which is frozen and dark, and lacking life. which is what we would do.
wouldnt that make sense?
if theres a race out there, and they see 9 planets orbiting a sun. they then notice the blue and green one, holding water. and then realize its inhabited. now, Logically speaking, another race would moooost likely observe it, as opposed to the 9th one. which is frozen and dark, and lacking life. which is what we would do.
wouldnt that make sense?
It's arrogant because most people who think aliens are visiting this planet seem to think they're very much involved with us, not simply popping over to have a look. It's also arrogant because nost people who believe they've been abducted by aliens also consider that said aliens are taking a special interest in them. It's also arrogant to say that we can guess at alien thoughts, motivations and logic and accordingly predict their actions and interests.
All this surmising what 'aliens would do' makes zero sense, and is therefore, as I say, arrogant. We need at least a bit of evidence to start having those conversations.
QUOTE (spikeman25 @ Feb 9 2008, 04:54 AM)
Well if they are happening i suspect they are abducting us and tagging us just like we tag different kinds of animals . Catch and release
Ah, that old flawed logic that always crops up in this forum - "if something is happening, then this is the reason".
Completely illogical.
QUOTE (Nucular @ Feb 10 2008, 02:02 PM)
I agree. Except I'd go a stage further and say that it's arrogant of us to think that we're special enough for advanced beings to want to come and visit us; and especially arrogant to think that they'd be interested enough in individuals to kidnap them in the night.
It's highly likely that there are many other intelligent beings out there in the universe; but it's highly unlikely that any of them have ever come anywhere near us, in even astronomical terms, ever.
Yes, it's possible, but that's a claim which has to be judged on its evidence, which is (to grossly understate it) flimsy at best.
It's highly likely that there are many other intelligent beings out there in the universe; but it's highly unlikely that any of them have ever come anywhere near us, in even astronomical terms, ever.
Yes, it's possible, but that's a claim which has to be judged on its evidence, which is (to grossly understate it) flimsy at best.
I agree with everything this man just said.
Alien abductions exist because people keep making them up or having delusions.
I believe there are other lifeforms out there (statistically, I mean come on) but I think when they find us (if they do) we will definitely know it. There has ever been one single case of abduction that could be proven, and with 50 or so years of people claiming it, you would think we would have more to show for it from at least one.
Let's not speculate about the motivation of alleged alien beings who allegedly come to Earth and allegedly sneak people away in the night. Let's speculate on if it's really occurring or not first.
I believe there are other lifeforms out there (statistically, I mean come on) but I think when they find us (if they do) we will definitely know it. There has ever been one single case of abduction that could be proven, and with 50 or so years of people claiming it, you would think we would have more to show for it from at least one.
Let's not speculate about the motivation of alleged alien beings who allegedly come to Earth and allegedly sneak people away in the night. Let's speculate on if it's really occurring or not first.
QUOTE (Emma_Acid_88 @ Feb 11 2008, 01:16 PM)
I agree with everything this man just said.
In philosophical terms there was someone i remember ,it may have been Anselm or Descartes (one of his proofs) that said , the proof to the existence of god is in his name. which is circular reasoning at its best. But it was the principle that is relevant. What he meant was, if when i say the word 'god' and you can imagine anything. Anything at all. Then the essence exists because we cant see things that don't exist. So in effect the nature of abduction exists. this is true.The nature of aliens exist not known. Yet we see people describing the essence with minor variations. This ontological argument is always weak. But in a way its interesting to apply. One of the philosophers i had to study talked about how, a unicorn doesn't exist really but is made of things that do exist.which is in it's self a collage of truths placed to together. For eg, a narwhal does indeed exist its twisted teeth creating the spike is real. a horse does exist .we place these things together to create the illusion of a thing that doesnt exist ,made of real things. What i mean is, its pretty much hard to imagine things that don't exist with out borrowing from things that do.
given this, it becomes interesting to figure out what these people really experienced. so, i chose not to discredit anything, or skeptically ascertain what is spoken of, in case a clue or hint of what may really be happening escape me from my dismissal.
Socrates claimed the soul remembers truth.
the inference of philosophy into this is inspired by the claim that there is a reoccurring argument. when it comes to arguing about things that defy rationalization, philosophy pretty much has that covered.
thanks for your post
[
I think it's a stretch from the (as you point out) dodgy ontological argument for the existence of God to draw conclusions about what alien abductions might be based on:
1) Kant killed the ontological argument by demonstrating that existence is not a predicate
2) There's some evidence which might indicate that people are basing their conceptions of aliens and abduction on something else - but that that something else is also imaginary... movie aliens (see e.g. http://www.skepticfiles.org/ufo2/unpredis.htm)
Indeed, heaven forbid you might look at something sceptically
I think psychology can have a fair crack at such things too
QUOTE (wiredbadger @ Feb 11 2008, 02:07 PM)
This ontological argument is always weak. But in a way its interesting to apply. One of the philosophers i had to study talked about how, a unicorn doesn't exist really but is made of things that do exist.which is in it's self a collage of truths placed to together. For eg, a narwhal does indeed exist its twisted teeth creating the spike is real. a horse does exist .we place these things together to create the illusion of a thing that doesnt exist ,made of real things. What i mean is, its pretty much hard to imagine things that don't exist with out borrowing from things that do.
I think it's a stretch from the (as you point out) dodgy ontological argument for the existence of God to draw conclusions about what alien abductions might be based on:
1) Kant killed the ontological argument by demonstrating that existence is not a predicate
2) There's some evidence which might indicate that people are basing their conceptions of aliens and abduction on something else - but that that something else is also imaginary... movie aliens (see e.g. http://www.skepticfiles.org/ufo2/unpredis.htm)
QUOTE
given this, it becomes interesting to figure out what these people really experienced. so, i chose not to discredit anything, or skeptically ascertain what is spoken of, in case a clue or hint of what may really be happening escape me from my dismissal.
Indeed, heaven forbid you might look at something sceptically
QUOTE
Socrates claimed the soul remembers truth.
the inference of philosophy into this is inspired by the claim that there is a reoccurring argument. when it comes to arguing about things that defy rationalization, philosophy pretty much has that covered.
the inference of philosophy into this is inspired by the claim that there is a reoccurring argument. when it comes to arguing about things that defy rationalization, philosophy pretty much has that covered.
I think psychology can have a fair crack at such things too
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.