I was going to make this a Pagan only thread but I'd like to hear from everyone.


I can’t say that I’ve ever been Persecuted but I have lost a job because of what I believe I was working at a retail store one yeah over the holidays & the subject of religion came up. Keep in mind that the overnight lead was a Mormon & was always pushing people to go to church, needless to say some how he found out a friend of mine had told me that he had overheard another person saying that she was scared of me ( she was also Mormon which went to his church) so I got laid off when the time came to let people go there was a rumor that I had tried to run over the guy with a pallet jack which is used to move things around the store & has wheels like a skateboard. I have got into some good debates with people in my wifes bookstore but thats about it.


Deep down I’ve love to run into him not to hurt him but just give him a good talking too…

Everyone gets persecuted once and a while, I have been persecuted plenty of times, but I just try not to let it get to me.

Actually, no, I've never been persecuted... not really.

I was fired from a job once because I was a woman , but not even that is persecution, imho. I think folks have far too broad a definition for that word.

I dont know what you would classify this as, but when I was 14 and 15 my parents sent me to a christian fundamentalist camp (i dont know why) and once I told them I was Catholic they stopped being nice to me.

I don't think I have been persecuted due to my lack of religion. Mind you Australia is fairly laidback about that kind of thing.....there are other countries where people undergo horrific persecution due to religion.

Gee Norwood, I think from your avatar I imagined you as a type who smells daisies and has bluebirds on your shoulder.....now I see you in a whole new light

Yep.. I have.

I have found that most basic jerks are completely clueless about the way they come across to people.

So if they were rude to someone or patronizing and then they got fired or were not treated nicely after that they blame it on the fact that they are being persecuted.

I've never seen Christians persecute anyone. I've seen a lot Christian JERKS though, I've seen a lot of Atheist JERKS and a lot of Wiccan and Pagan JERKS.


One example of this that I tend to seen here in NYC is Puerto Rican women. To me some of them come across quite abrasive and I tend to withdraw from dealing with them. When I do if they notice its always because I'm racist and snobby. They never ever think to consider their own behavior of getting all Rosie Perez Ghetto on me every time they speak to me, nope, its cause I'm racist. Of course they base this on the fact that I'm white, so maybe I should say I'm being persecuted for that. LOL

same here , but sometimes it's just sssssooooo hard not to say something back , for example =

I pulled into a local gas mart when I was younger , to buy a pack of smokes. just as I come back to my car I see this moron pull in as so to pin me in leaving me no way out. he could have parked next to me and I could have backed up , but he pulled up to my bumper . Must have been the rainbow sticker that set him off.

"I said do you mind pulling next to me or backing up ? you have me pinned in. "

now the obviously middle aged , newly divorced , oddly dressed ( dress shirt and sweat pants , short and squat guy balding with thick glasses) and of course isn't getting any says " it's not like you have anywhere to go dyke."

I was a bit startled and he walked into the station thinking he was smart.

so I waited calmly by my car and as he came near I said " I guess it's true what they say ........ a lack of sex makes people mean ."

he turned purple and tried to stumble out " I get laid more than you !"

to which I said " that maybe true , but at least I don't have to pay for it ."

got in my car , and left him standing there speechless while I died laughing flipping him off as I went.

Persecuted for religions sake ? at times . by all the biggies . since I believe no one is excluded from 'heaven' and no religion is the way ................. then I sometimes hear it , even in line at the grocery store a couple of times. Someone will say ' well there is someone who isn't going to heaven' and I usually say I'm not God so I can't say that ' and of course they reply 'well if they are sorry and ask Jesus' and of course I say 'that's only one religions opinion. doesn't mean it's so'

that's when they either ignore me but give me dirty looks . or try to sell me Jesus. or comment ' they will pray for me' and I say I'll do the same for them.

You know its interesting. To me persecution requires a long term deliberateness. Not someone being a jerk in a parking lot for whatever reason. Not that I don't think you have every right to be disgusted by this Ripley.

However that's not persecution. Neither is persnickety juvenile idiots in the grocery store. That's just sick people.

Here's an interesting article on Persecution. I had no idea it was linked in any way to homosexuality as a defense? Odd

http://www.answers.com/topic/persecution?cat=health

Here's an interesting bit



Its interesting to me the bolded part because we see on this site the claim quite frequently that Christians are a threat. This is why I feel they are persecuted. To me, someone not liking you is way different than someone suggesting that you are a threat to society.

I think Homosexuals have been persecuted by the religious especially in regard to same sex marriage. But just people being mean to one another is not persecution.

it is persecution . years of people thinking like the moron in the gas station parking lot. it's not like his actions are new .

and it wasn't juveniles in the store but both middle aged women. and Christians do tend to look down and get attitudes if you tell them the truth that you don't need to got to God via Jesus Christ. Oh they may say nice things like all relgions get to God , but most don't believe it. nor do people of other religions when saying the same thing, I think the response is auto PC but inwardly they are saying ' not in a million years '.

In America persecution has been going on since they stated colonizing . white , straight , male , christian , rich = good. anything else. not as good. and it hasn't changed a whole lot.

No that's not persecution. Sorry but that's just people being disgusting. You being denied gay marriage is persecution. Being called a dyke is no different than me being called a wench or a minority called an ethnic slur. Its just low class and terribly wrong.

But that's not persecution.

Persecution is a movement against a group of people because they are perceived as a threat to society. So gay marriage has been persecuted. Immigrants have been persecuted. Homosexuals during the height of the aids crisis were persecuted. Segregation is persecution.

etc etc etc.

We've all had people be mean to us, it sucks but its not persecution.

Salem witch trials were persecution. The idea that the group is a threat to society and needs to be singled out and stopped. That's persecution.

Like people do here to Christians all the time.


Here's another link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution

Persecution (ok a little of an exaggeration -depends again on interpretation) often takes on a very subtle form.
Know what I mean ?

I doubt the fact that they were Mormon had anything to do with it. You are probably just oversensitive about your religion and jumped to the idea of religious persecution.

I have been persecuted before. I have had satan worshipper and such written on my door in spray paint. I have had my children harrassed at school. My children have been told that because we are Mormon, other kids can't play with them, by said kids.

persecution is the language of an idiot.

we have alot of persecution here in Kenora Ontario. it's because of the natives.

as you know Canada has bad blood with its aboriginals. so when an "apple" [white on the inside] gets denied something [and your white skinned] its because your prejudice. not the fact that they expect to be treated special because they are "red skinned". most true blooded natives despise "apples" [its their term] because they have no respect for their heritage.

what really insults me is that my white skinned self has native blood and soul. yet "apples" judge me! on my skin!

it doesnt help with the cops though. god help us.

one year they refused to search for a teenage girl that was missing because she was reported to be seen in Winnepeg. her body was found 10 metres from where her freinds last saw her almost a year later. she was my age went to my school and worse off her body was found hidden off a trail between houses in my neighbourhood that my sister[and many others] frequented going to school

then the next year a native man was beaten to death right in the downtown sure it was like 2am. but they dropped the ball [yet again] when investigating. [causing yet another unsolved murder, 2 lawsuits [suspect and vistims family], and the restructuring of the police force.

and GET THIS predjudice has gotten BETTER since my mothers days

I wouldn't say I have been actually persecuted. Maybe when I was at ritual and some people fired guns in our direction from the road, nobody got hurt but it scared the hell out of us. I know a lot of pagans keep quiet about their religion at work for fear they might lose their jobs, because it does happen.
Most of the problems I get are verbal and I don't really consider it persecution.

im going to put in my two cents....

im not sure how many of Norwood's threads or replies you have read, but there is one thing I do know if anyone one on here is less likely to be sensitive about his religion its Norwood, EVERYONE suffers some form of harassment or persecution about their beliefs, I don't, I live in a very heavily populated Mormon
area, I suffer backlash for my beliefs, some religions more then others(which history has shown) you kids may have been told that but remember kids can be sneaky and there are two sides to every story....

I don't believe these bunch of arrogant gits would pray for anyone thay have just shown ignorance to.....in fact I don't believe they know the meaning of the word christian

I lived beside a bunch of hard core christians that used to fight the bit out with the neighbors, they were nicknamed - the holy terrors!!

They used to chant hate at anyone that wasnt a part of their christian group...all you would hear out of them was - You will rot in hell ha ha ha....your a fagot I know you will burn....my dad says Jesus hates you because you are catholic ha ha <------------ya know these idiots where foced out of the area and it wasnt the 1st place they where thrown out of

But I think you have to tell yourself that not all christians are like that....there are the good as well as the bad....the bad ones dont realize they are using their faith to excuse the hate...and if there is a hell....id say they would be welcomed there

Some chrsitans say that being persecuted is all part of walking the path of God...........but that dont mean show hate and when you get persecuted for being hateful...think well its all part of Gods work...NOPE its not

so those gays killed here in America before AIDS ? the beatings on the streets when the bars would close ? the intentional arrests and raids of gay clubs ? Having to be in the closet or lose your job ? house ? remember when there wasn't any rights ? or the fact in some states there still isn't ? being called a name isn't persecution ? I understand at least one of your sons follows Islam ? now if he were called a terrorist in training daily would that be persecution when deemed you have no legal recourse for what someone calls you ?



November 19, 2006
Religious Ignoramuses of the World Find Common Cause in the Persecution of Gay People

Plans to organize a Gay Pride parade in Jerusalem have been met with murderous threats and demands for state suppression.

As the day of the planned parade, November 10, approached, anonymous posters appeared in the communities of ultra-orthodox Jews promising $500 for every gay man or woman killed during the parade. Some groups reportedly had plans to bombard the marchers with apples studded with razor blades.

This campaign of persecution brought together leading fundamentalist and orthodox forces of the three major religions—Judaism, Christianity and Islam—that consider Jerusalem their Holy City.

cont ........

http://revcom.us/a/069/jerusalem-en.html

plenty of 'christian' groups think this about gays. Hitler did and that's where the pink triangle comes from. You didn't think he only killed Jews did you ?

It would depend on what definition you use to describe "persecution". I would say on the whole I am not persecuted. Most people in Australia are fairly laid-back. But the persecution is subtly there most times. For example, let's say it is Saturday night, and I've gone down to the pub for a drink. I've just met some people and have become friendly with them. They all ask "you have plans for tomorrow", and some people say they're going to watch some various sports team, or go to a concert. Some mention there's a BBQ happening somewhere. This is met with raucous laughter and slaps on the back. Yet no one wants to accept it when you say "I'm going to church tomorrow". Invariably, it's immediately followed with "Why would you waste your time with that kind of thing".

Why is going to the sports game or holding a BBQ acceptable on your own time, but going to church not? Persecution, perhaps not, but it certainly gives me second thoughts about sharing what I'm going to be doing when people are willing to criticise you for just mentioning it.

You know Ripley its funny that you bring up my sons. My older son, the one with his crap pulled together is darker than his younger brother. And he's been insulted but Jerks on occasion. Imagine the scene at a family barbeque when my girlfriends redneck brother up from the south asked my then 12 year old "Hey Ahab, taken any flying lessons lately" Hardy Har Har.

The thing is that my son didn't freak out because he's so secure in himself that he recognized the situation exactly for what it was.

Take my other son who is the middle child who doesn't do well in school and one of his teachers said to him "Wow are you sure you are Z's brother, because you are not good at math at all"

Teacher was an idiot as well but because THIS son is insecure he freaked out about it and it really got to him

In my opinion the solution is not to cry persecution but to learn to deal with it. I have many gay friends and am well aware of the issues faced in the gay community. Please do not patronize me like I don't. I've always been a staunch supporter of gay rights as anyone on here can attest.

However you being called a dyke by some jerk in a parking lot is not persecution. Its just someone being a jerk. Stonewall, yes, persecution. I have mentioned at least three ways that I think homosexuals have been persecuted and it boils down to being considered a threat to society.

Not someone being mean. I've had people be mean to me all my life mostly for being a white blonde haired woman. Is that persecution? No. Its just people being jerks.

Sounds like your the "victim" of racism. It's never nice, no matter what race the perpetrator is.

I have never been fired for my beliefs, or even had a serious problem because of it. I once had to work with one of those jerks you're talking about (Every morning he reminded me I was going to hell.), but he was a co-worker, not the boss (And he was gone within a year.). Some of those jerks get to be bosses and that's when firings and persecution problems happen. The big companies try to discourage such things; it interferes with making profits and subjects them to liabilities they don't need, but once in awhile it happens. Ever notice that it's never the boss of a large company or unit that causes the problem? It's always the lower-level ones (Or, sometimes the boss of a small company, like a construction contractor.).

I once went to the Baptist center at Glorietta, New Mexico. I was a Presbyterian then. When they found out, they first tried to save me, then when I proved resistant to instant conversion, started getting hostile. I saw the light and started "saving" them before they could start "saving" me. After that we got along fabulously - but I never went back.

Quakers often feel persecuted. They are a tiny minority west of Iowa. The thing other people seem to have against them is misconceptions about pacifism. That and "I didn't know there were any around anymore," or "Like the guy on the oatmeal box?" Mostly, people don't know anything about them and don't realize their next-door neighbor is one.

I think any group that gets larger than about 15% of the local population starts to think of itself as a privileged elite and starts acting poorly toward others. Diversity seems to keep everybody in check. Doesn't matter what religion is involved.

Atheists and agnostics are a tiny minority and so suffer from the problems of being misunderstood by the larger society. Most of it seems to be stereotyping and not based on real people. A lot of it is that most people don't even know they know an atheist and have no idea what atheism is.

Anyway, hang in there. I gotta run.
Doug

From what I have read so far in this thread ,I don't consider most to be persecution but more like discrimination..An example of persecution in my opinion is the Nazis with the Jews, now that's persecution


fullywired

so to you being gay in your opinion and having people taunt you , theaten life , deny rights , ect...... isn't persecution .
That such behaviour should just be ignored.
You could then say the same here about the Christians . buck it up . get used to it. ignore them ( for the 'hard' time they are having in the US .) yet I don't see a Christians lives getting threatened here in America on daily basis like gays do either. or losing thier jobs or childeren for being so. maybe if that started suddenly it would make a difference ?



ignoring it doesn't make it go away -- it makes you a door mat.

I dunno... I'm a Quaker, I've never been persecuted (I was once an atheist, never felt persecuted then either). Sure, I've had people say silly things to me like "but... but, you drive a car and have electricity!" Or... "Is your horse out back?" or "Do you like Oatmeal?"

Whatever, that's misunderstanding, silliness and sometimes it even makes me laugh. But persecuted? Never. Not even for my pacifist beliefs have I been persecuted. I've had people say to me that they're quite unsure how I could never violently defend myself etc... but being persecuted? No. Definitely not.

Just because someone doesn't approve of your beliefs, doesn't make you persecuted. Now if they try to take away your basic human and social rights because of your beliefs... then we'll talk.

by the way MsM - "Do you like Oatmeal?"

uuuummmm yummy ! lol

The only aspect of my belief system for which I have been overtly persecuted ie "been harassed unjustly," is in my refusal to drink alcohol. When I first came to this personal decision over 35 years ago, it cost me a lot of "friends' and many fruitless arguments (i have never tried to influence another's choices nor even preached my own, outside of the example of my lifestye).

But in Australia of that day it was virtually incomprehensible to most people for a 21 year old male to decide that alcohol was a personal, medical, and social "evil" rather than a great and essential social lubricant.

Maybe I and my associates have all grown older and more tolerant, but I suspect that society is changing, with at least a realisation and acceptance of the many dangers of alcohol. Any way, the only real injustice occurred within the education dept where I have worked all my life where both my promotion prospects and relationships with principals and other senior staff were hindered by my refusal to be involved in events involving alcohol, especially where young( albeit legal) peole were drinking at school functions.

Because the social and professional sides of teaching are so inextricably linked, it would be difficult to prove cause and effect, but there is no doubt that i was "persecuted" for my attitude by people who had no conception of where i was coming from. Along with society, the education dept is now a lot more aware of the dangers of alcohol(not least because of litigation over isues where it was involved)

It is a decision i have never regreted, and with the increasing proof of connection between alcoholl and most accidents, crime and violence in society, one i feel increasingly vindicated in. For me, always operating at full capacity and with always a complete connection between myself and the world, is a such a wonderful experience that no drug could match the sense of euphoria I live with every minute, of every day.

It says quite a bit about Australian society that; while I hold quite an individual belief system, and live an unusual life style, this is the only aspect of it, which is continually questioned, and which people completely fail to comprehend.

Ps I think some writers are setting too high a bar with their definition of persecution, and this has dangers in itself. I like my dictionary's definition of "unjust harrassment," because (as we teach kids with bullying) a lot of it is in the individual's perception.

If you are being made to feel uncomfortable or unsafe then you are probably being bullied, and if you are being harassed; physically verbally or psychologicaly to the point where you feel unsafe and uncomfortable then you are probably being persecuted, and you should not minimise it, but rather recognise it and work to eliminate it.

Probably a very smart decision for you. I personally do indulge, but I often look around me and see a bunch of idiots who really don't know what they're doing, who I will likely have to make sure they're ok while they are paying their dues to the porcelain god (sorry run on sentence).

That's because your breath smells of baby...

I think the point is Rip, just trying to make a distinction between sanctioned discrimination and old-school Archie Bunker style ignorance. Ignoring it of course is a mistake. Letting it slide is a mistake. I agree, as would most people. It's just that persecution implies organized, state or society organized opposition. Have you (and most openly gay men and women) experienced persecution? Most likely. Discrimination? Without even a shadow of a doubt! There must be a line drawn though, between discrimination and outright persecution.

Yeaa or like when gays in some countries are still being hung ....!!!!

I agree 100%. There's ignorance and bigotry, that's one thing, but it's not persecution.

Not allowing homosexuals to marry, in my opinion, lies somewhere inbetween state sanctioned bigotry and persecution (probably closer to the latter).

per·se·cu·tion /ˌpɜrsɪˈkyuʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pur-si-kyoo-shuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. the act of persecuting.
2. the state of being persecuted.
3. a program or campaign to exterminate, drive away, or subjugate a people because of their religion, race, or beliefs: the persecutions of Christians by the Romans.

A lot of religious people have been known to campain to get homosexuals to leave.....

The KKK were famous for persecuting people for beliefs and race

subjugate?? People have been trying to control others by telling them what path to take...a lot of turn or burn folk out there....

The biggest problem i had whit religion was that time i dated a jew girls whose parents were deeply orthodox, and didnt like her daughter to date a "gentile", so they send a family frined to try convince me of leaving her daughter. After the guy loose some theets when his "physical suggestion" fail, the girl levae her parents and move whit a friend. Some time later her brother also leave his parents after the kid get out of the closet and his parents didnt aprove it.

Yes. I've been persecuted for being a white person in a black majority community, a white person in a native majority community, and I have been persecuted because my husband "looks" Jewish and taught Walt Whitman at the school. Once we even had guys in camo and their heads covers show up at our house with baseball bats. Lucky we were not home, but my neighbors called the police. I don't really want to discuss the details.