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Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Spirituality, Religion and Beliefs
norwood1026
Could it be at one time in the history of the world that everyone was a Pagan?
Althought one might argue that the Hewbrew myth decipt the Jews as monotheistic from the very begining but how unlikey is that?
In Pagan Theology, Michael York makes the argument that Paganism is the mother of all religions. Not only does he argue that all religions come from Paganism, he also argues that all religions have some pagan behavior still in them (e.g. ecstatic worship, idol worship, polytheistic worship, a focus on the here-and-now vice salvation or escape from illusion of the world). I'm not sure that I buy all of the things he is saying, but he does make some good arguments. From dictionary.com pagan means either a polytheist, or one who is not Christian, Jewsish, or Muslim...I can think of some things I've read that suggest this. In the Norse traditions, there is talk of a God named Ing (or Ingwaz) that predates the Odin mythos. There is also a Goddess named Berkhano that I believe predates Odin mythos as well. However, I am no Germanic scholar.
I think there is also something along the same lines in Egyptian mythos but I am not sure.
And, in the GrecoRoman, Uranus came before Zeus and his pantheon and in some tellings Eros came before Uranus.
So, I think there is some evidence that suggests that there was monotheistic worship before polytheistic worship (although it may have been female-based rather than male-based this doesn't mean it wasn't pagan
AtlantisRises
The term pagan basically means a pre-Christian non-Judaic religion. As Judaism has not existed forever I guess its a given that we all have some sort of pagan ancestory, but for the most part I doubt it is much.

As an aside I agree with the idea that Judaism was originally polytheistic and to be honest I think Christianity in a limited sense is as well. Particularly the Catholic Churchs revering of Saints and Angels seems to me to create a hierarchy of demigod like figures, as arguably does their fear of Satan and other Demons.
momentarylapseofreason
But of course dahling....................

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CallSignWolf
QUOTE (momentarylapseofreason @ Feb 16 2008, 10:51 AM) *
But of course dahling....................

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Lol what the ..
Lt_Ripley
QUOTE (momentarylapseofreason @ Feb 16 2008, 04:51 AM) *
But of course dahling....................

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I love it.
evancj
QUOTE (momentarylapseofreason @ Feb 16 2008, 02:51 AM) *
But of course dahling....................

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laugh.gif
Mr Walker
Modern australian indigenous people probably do not have pagan ancestors, if you use the classical definition of the term. They never developed that "sophistication" of religious development, before white settlement.

I'm not sure how you would classify their beautiful and diverse "religion" but i dont think it has ever resembled a pagan one. Given certain habitation in australia for 40,000 years, and possibly twice that, their beliefs are perhaps more akin to animist beliefs or even those of people like cromagnoon man where the linkage bewteen the real world, and that of the spirit world, was both universal and absolute. Death, for example, was not attributed to natural causes but to some effect from the "paranormal world"
el gato negro
That is what all cultures from all countries share. They all started out as pagans.
norwood1026
QUOTE (Mr Walker @ Feb 17 2008, 01:19 AM) *
Modern australian indigenous people probably do not have pagan ancestors, if you use the classical definition of the term. They never developed that "sophistication" of religious development, before white settlement.

I'm not sure how you would classify their beautiful and diverse "religion" but i dont think it has ever resembled a pagan one. Given certain habitation in australia for 40,000 years, and possibly twice that, their beliefs are perhaps more akin to animist beliefs or even those of people like cromagnoon man where the linkage bewteen the real world, and that of the spirit world, was both universal and absolute. Death, for example, was not attributed to natural causes but to some effect from the "paranormal world"


Well the reason I'm saying Pagan is like we've talked about before Paganism is ANY set of belifes that does not fall under the Judeo-christian religions.
What you seem to be talking about is more like Shamanism perhaps just a eariler version of it is all.
swtp
QUOTE (momentarylapseofreason @ Feb 16 2008, 01:51 AM) *
But of course dahling....................

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laugh.gif Thats great, and i totally agree! yes.gif laugh.gif
Mr Walker
QUOTE (norwood1026 @ Feb 17 2008, 01:01 PM) *
Well the reason I'm saying Pagan is like we've talked about before Paganism is ANY set of belifes that does not fall under the Judeo-christian religions.
What you seem to be talking about is more like Shamanism perhaps just a eariler version of it is all.


Thats fair enough. Its your post after all. I dont really think that paganism embraces all early prechristian religions. Its what they called the religious beliefs which existed in the rural villages outside the initial influence of christianity. Thus, by default, it has characteristics similar to such religions.

For example the celts were a classic pagan culture. Pagan to me is a level of religious development more "primitive" than christianity but much more "sophisticated" than the aboriginal belief system . To use your example judaism is just an earlier version of christianity. In some ways this is true , but the differences are so signifivcant they are normally seen as different religions altogether

But as I said, your post, and I had not picked up on the fact that there had been an earlier agreement on what constituted paganism. That does make your argument more probable in that, yes, all peoles went through a variety of religious experiences which might be generically labelled pagan

. One question though. If you already know that, then why pose the question? It only has one possible answer, given the parameters you set for it.
norwood1026
QUOTE (Mr Walker @ Feb 17 2008, 03:33 AM) *
Thats fair enough. Its your post after all. I dont really think that paganism embraces all early prechristian religions. Its what they called the religious beliefs which existed in the rural villages outside the initial influence of christianity. Thus, by default, it has characteristics similar to such religions.
For example the celts were a classic pagan culture. Pagan to me is a level of religious development more "primitive" than christianity but much more "sophisticated" than the aboriginal belief system . To use your example judaism is just an earlier version of christianity. In some ways this is true , but the differences are so signifivcant they are normally seen as different religions altogether
But as I said, your post, and I had not picked up on the fact that there had been an earlier agreement on what constituted paganism. That does make your argument more probable in that, yes, all peoles went through a variety of religious experiences which might be generically labelled pagan
. One question though. If you already know that, then why pose the question? It only has one possible answer, given the parameters you set for it.


I like to see everyone thoughts on topics like this not to argue them but see how they might perceive what religions there might have been before Christianity came along.
Hence I posted this in this area & not the skeptics thread.

Lt_Ripley
QUOTE (norwood1026 @ Feb 16 2008, 11:05 PM) *
I like to see everyone thoughts on topics like this not to argue them but see how they might perceive what religions there might have been before Christianity came along.
Hence I posted this in this area & not the skeptics thread.


well when you stated pagan ancestors and not Pagan I thought of just your basic worship of anything pre judeo christian .......

AtlantisRises
QUOTE (Mr Walker @ Feb 17 2008, 11:49 AM) *
Modern australian indigenous people probably do not have pagan ancestors, if you use the classical definition of the term. They never developed that "sophistication" of religious development, before white settlement.

I'm not sure how you would classify their beautiful and diverse "religion" but i dont think it has ever resembled a pagan one. Given certain habitation in australia for 40,000 years, and possibly twice that, their beliefs are perhaps more akin to animist beliefs or even those of people like cromagnoon man where the linkage bewteen the real world, and that of the spirit world, was both universal and absolute. Death, for example, was not attributed to natural causes but to some effect from the "paranormal world"


mhm. I would agree with that Walker. While a lot of people do refer to paganism as being any prechristian belief it is true that Paganism is much more sophisticated then the earlier worship of animals or ancestors.

You have given me something to think about indeed original.gif
Mademoiselle
Well , yes . Unless you are from another planet or so.
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