gee, i wish i had thought of that. oh, wait, I DID i was responding specifically to:

which actually was quoted right above my own words in my first post that you are referring to. were you skimming or something? if you are not one of the type of skeptos that ozi is referring to, then it wasnt directed towards you at all. why are you so offended? it's annoying when people act that way. u know it is, and you cant deny it. and they always hate being called on it, ive noticed. im not denying them their opinion. im just saying that as valid and right it may be, or how much i may/may not agree with them, it falls on deaf ears when presented in any sort of offensive tone.


..... what about all these deep undergroud bases? how about mountain bases? im sure there are enough of them to hide the important people should anything happen, but that still leaves the rest of us.... and ive come to the conclusion that if anything bad IS going to happen then we are all on our own. the true test of faith(not GOD). if you believe it's going to happen, you will take the necessary steps to make sure you are not in the wrong place at the wrong time, and you will be prepared to some degree for what comes after. if you DONT believe, then i guess it all depends on where you are. you could be living on the coast somewhere and get swept away.... who knows. i live close enough to the coast to be swept away, but am i moving anytime soon? no. but i dont see the harm in slowly storing away some canned goods, and camping supplies, and what-not just in case. heck, i might just go out and take some self-defense classes, and some gun courses, and storing some guns and ammo so i can defend and feed myself and my kids if need be LoL!! (1/2 serious on that one!) you never know! IMO it's better to be safe than sorry, but at the same time i cant see myself taking out a loan or anything to finance an underground fall-out shelter LoL

I guess some of you people are correct concerning this issue being like every other year; like many who figured out that waiting for the mother ship on December 31st, 1999 was a bad idea they would rather keep a secret. One thing that cant be predicted is the happenings of the universe. Lets not forget how primitive the human species is when compared to the infinitely larger picture of the universe. Everything we know about what goes on "out there" isnt exactly everything we'll ever know. To rule out ancient calculations is nothing more than the fad of a technological generation. Lets also not forget that everything we know about "today" wasnt just learned yesterday. Granted, new and more efficient ideas are brought to life everyday, but the basis by which we've continued to progress and improve other certain ideas are innovations based upon ancient knowledge and wisdom. As much as ancient civilizations learned and progressed, as do the civilizations of today. Each generation in sequence has learned from the one before it, taking their ideas and making them better, more solid and sharp. As much as anyone can believe that what is speculated about 2012 will not happen, one can never know; the same goes for those who believe otherwise. Maybe its cool to claim the 2012 speculation is complete crap, because you dont want to be the one all your friends make fun of for believing its true. As much "credible" crap as I've read supporting this subject, I've read just as much that doesnt. You can pull whatever quotes from whatever scientific journal. You can believe one person just because they say "no" and the other just because they say "yes." You can do all the research and find crap, but the fact remains that nobody, and I mean nobody, knows for sure. Maybe it will be just another year...maybe it wont. Considering the replies to this thread, I highly doubt any of you are doing any major scientific research for or against this subject. I for one wont rule out the tellings of an ancient civilization who could cut stone to laser precision, by todays standards, with just water and another stone.

For the Mayans, this prediction was likely much more significant than predicting their own downfall, because this was a universal matter – not one bent on the random slaughtering of humans by other humans who lack the ability to understand them. This prediction has to do with the entire planet and possibly the workings of the entire universe…all are affected by it, not just the Mayans. When the Mayans looked up into the sky they didn’t see the invading forces preparing to eradicate them from across the ocean. They saw something that they could calculate according to the movements of stars and planets – something bigger than they were…something bigger than everybody was. While they looked into the sky they noticed that these certain movements of stars and planets had “natural” effects on their own planet – invading forces from across the ocean is hardly a natural occurrence. Because of this, they found that they were able to predict seasonal type effects on the world around them. They knew when summer was coming and going. This is what probably gave them the confidence to believe in whatever it was they saw in the sky – that helped them predict whatever cycle it is that supposedly ends in 2012. For anyone to say that this is wrong because they could predict this based on natural calculations, yet couldn’t predict their own downfall at the hands of other humans – is a complete idiot. The Mayans didn’t fight technologically advanced wars with global positioning satellites that could detect enemy movement, and the moon certainly wasn’t going to tell the Mayans that the invaders would arrive at the rising of the next tide. If this is in fact the case, then maybe we should start consulting the stars about the next terrorist attack on the United States, and use the GPS systems to predict when the world will end. Do you see my point?

Personally I don’t support this prediction, and its not because I have no faith in the Mayans – its because nobody really knows what exactly the Mayans predicted. Sure, maybe there will be a solar system wide planetary alignment, but what if what WE see as the Mayans predicting planetary alignment was something completely different to them? What if what we think the Mayans thought the end of the world was, is completely different than the way we vision it? WE see the end of the world being something rather catastrophic, destroying much of all life on the planet, but the Mayans were a very spiritual civilization – maybe their idea of the end was the complete opposite. What we must remember – is the idea that this “prediction” is the end of the world as WE know it – not essentially the complete destruction of it…but some change that could prove to be rather significant to how WE live life in this day and age; possibly changing it drastically. I myself am a “see it to believe it” kinda guy. Ghosts?...maybe they exist – but there isnt one telling me to go towards the light. Bigfoot?...sure, anything is possible – but there isnt a missing link tossing rocks at my cabin in the forest. 2012?...this is four years away people – I guess we’re just gunna have to wait and see arent we?...

The universe is much stranger than we have the ability to explain or discover. The Mayans could have seen something in the sky only visible in that day and age from their vantage point on the planet – a phenomenon now faded from existence by time itself. All I know is that whatever the Mayans did in fact see up there was something significant enough for them to be influenced by it in such a way, that their whole entire civilization became reliant on it. Anything having that much effect on a civilization is some serious stuff if you ask me; no matter how big or small we think it is. What I do believe, is that they did in fact recognize some sort of cyclic planetary trend. If I remember correctly, I think I’ve read some articles around the net that discussed other ancient civilizations having similar recognitions. Not saying that this solidifies the nature of the Mayan prediction – just something to think about or research if you feel the need. If this in fact proves to be true concerning other ancient civilizations, then its probably important for one to look into if you’re interested in this kind of thing. Also, I’m positive many scientists have and still study certain planetary effects like ice-age, global warming, earthquakes, polar shift, and others as possibly being cyclic planetary events; all of which would affect our way of life. If this is in fact the truth, whos to say “something” wont happen? And if “something” does happen…changing life as we know it, yet not in a catastrophic manner; whos to say that the Mayans didn’t in fact predict the “end of the world?”



-UC

The Mayans could have had this cycle down ,and wrote there own calender around it ......the whole planet seems to run on a cycle,even way back before gas engines.....2012 will bring about something but I can't say it will be good or bad ..just different,and we'll learn to live with it .......(lol maybe it was just the guy writing the calender died ,and no one replaced him so 2012 was his last entry....)hmmmm




July 28, 2008

SNAPSHOT OF PAST CLIMATE REVEALS NO ICE IN ANTARCTICA MILLIONS OF YEARS AGO

A snapshot of New Zealand's climate 40 million years ago reveals a greenhouse Earth, with warmer seas and little or no ice in Antarctica, according to research published this week in the journal Geology.

The study suggests that Antarctica at that time was yet to develop extensive ice sheets. Back then, New Zealand was about 1100 km further south, at the same latitude as the southern tip of South America – so was closer to Antarctica – but the researchers found that the water temperature was 23-25 degrees C at the sea surface and 11-13 degrees C at the bottom.

"This is too warm to be the Antarctic water we know today," said Dr Catherine (Cat) Burgess from Cardiff University's School of Earth and Ocean Sciences, and lead-author of the paper. "And the seawater chemistry shows there was little or no ice on the planet."

These new insights come from the chemical analysis of exceptionally well preserved fossils of marine micro-organisms called foraminifers, discovered in marine rocks from New Zealand. The researchers tested the calcium carbonate shells from these fossils, which were found in 40 million-year-old sediments on a cliff face at Hampden Beach, South Island.

"Because the fossils are so well preserved, they provide more accurate temperature records." added Dr Burgess. "Our findings demonstrate that the water temperature these creatures lived in was much warmer than previous records have shown."

"Although we did not measure carbon dioxide, several studies suggest that greenhouse gases forty million years ago were similar to those levels that are forecast for the end of this century and beyond.

Our work provides another piece of evidence that, in a time period with relatively high carbon dioxide levels, temperatures were higher and ice sheets were much smaller and likely to have been completely absent."

The rock sequence from the cliff face covers a time span of 70,000 years and shows cyclical temperature variations with a period of about 18,000 years. The temperature oscillation is likely to be related to the Earth's orbital patterns.

##

Contact:

Cat Burgess
Cardiff University
07-740-500-722
catherine_burgess99@hotmail.com
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possibly the man who created the calender did pass away though, i doubt only one man was working on this "calender." something with that much influence on a civ probably has many of their people working to preserve it, from generation to generation. if one man with the whole of this knowledge did in fact pass - i believe they did all they could to pass it on to the next man in line. this man would be someone so important, i believe, that there'd be many generations of other men preparing to replace the other. to the mayans, this knowledge was everything, bigger than any one man; only to be lost to war.

all knowledge in the universe is ancient. everything you could know about this universe has been here much longer than anything that breathes and bleeds. the knowledge of today will one day be ancient relics of the past - possibly holding the key to the future...much like the mayans knowledge could be. anyone claiming its not possible for this ancient race to see something we didnt, just because they're ancient - just isnt in-tune. they were intelligent in so many ways in their day. i find it highly possible for any race from that era on this planet, to have the ability to predict something of such magnitude. but like i said earlier - maybe its not exactly what they predicted, so much as it is how we interpret it. you, can only be the judge..



-UC

Also, Duke Nukem.

All I am going to do to prepare for 2012 is to be healthy, happy and have a small reserve of cash, food and energy.

Maybe even retreat to Antarctica before the Earths crust shifts 45 degrees.




Actually, no, I'll pray for the Aliens to take me to a planet with only hot women and hot climates.

I really don't think much of these 2012 predictions but I would have to agree. It always amuses me when I see this mind-set (usually from skeptics on here)... with the know-it-all attitude, always wanting to prove how clever they are, yet having the slightest clue as to how dumb they really appear to be. Then you also have the mindless bandwagoners who feel obliged to encourage such attitudes, so they can also appear to be seen as being more clever. It's a shame to have to see this sort of behaviour, especially on an adequately moderated forum like this!






agree, couldn't have said it any better myself




and a good one at that

You know we have spacecraft possible of landing on other planets and leaving our own solar system? We can see other galaxies and stars and have walked on the moon. We have mapped our own genetic structure and can see inside ourselves and cure diseases. We know how our brains work.

The mayans knew nothing compared to us. Is that a bad thing? no, because it was a different time and a different place and our circumstanced are different. But please, give modern science and civilization some credit here. Yeah they understood star patterns and the seasons and this helped them grow crops and relate to the world.

But we know how stars are formed, live and die. We have computer models plotting the courses of the planets and meteorites. Seriously, we know way way more than them.

We have thousands of years more of accumulated knowledge than them.



This ****s me to tears. Debating wether or not conciousness is "natural" is an impossible feat. Your just plain wrong to say someone is an idiot for making such a comment. Humans are the product of the universe, hence we are natural. Yet our conciousness seems to be within our control making it un natural (or atleast we like to think so). You don't know enough about the universe to make such an insult.

sure the mayans knew nothing when compared to the knowledge that technology has helped us acquire, but what exactly does this have to do with the mayans seeing something we havent seen? of all the things technology has helped us "see" - comparably to the scope of the universe, we've seen nothing at all. of all the things we know about ourselves and the world around us - comparably to the scope of mankinds further existence, we know nothing at all..not much different than the mayans now are we? things happen every second, every hour - so on and so forth - in the universe that we cant explain and you're telling me that because we have satellites that can observe galaxies millions of light years away, this makes us ever so superior to a race that operated in such a fashion with less technology?..that their predictions arent based on the same mechanics we base our own observations off of..by looking into the night sky?..that the only difference between what we know and what they knew is satellites?..and because we have satellites this means something could never appear to them if it doesnt, or hasnt appeared to us?..your statements arent very credible in my opinion..

and we dont have thousands of years of knowledge accumulated, more than them. their knowledge is included in the vast array of knowledge that governs what humanity does and doesnt know; as all races have been. our current state of humanity, with all its gadgets and crap has yet to know the thousand year scope..therefore what we know now hasnt been what we've known for thousands of years. its more a collection of knowledge over thousands of years, since what we know now is primarily based off of ancient wisdoms and knowledge - improved upon and innovated. i mentioned this in my initial reply - i'm surprised by your statements that you didnt read this part..

about the "consciousness" thing..i'm trying to grasp on to why exactly you're saying its not natural. i would think that when it comes to the natural world, being conscious in some form or fashion comes along with the territory. i believe highly, now that you've brought it up, that humans being conscious is very natural..if it wasnt, then we wouldnt be..its one of the important things that makes us human. also, forms of consciousness are observed all over the "natural" world. all animals perceive the world around them, therefore they are conscious of it..this is witnessed by how they respond to their environment..if other forms of consciousness arent exhibited by animals and you want to argue this further..please make your statements more specific. again, i dont know how this relates to this subject - but whatever..


and i'm not wrong for making my comment. you're telling me you can predict exactly how you're going to die by simply calculating a cyclic seasonal event? that would take all the fun out of at least trying to be omniscient. idiotic if you ask me. if you do in fact have such knowledge, i hope you're using it to the highest potential of its advantages. also, "life" is a product of the universe - not humans specifically..humans are a product of life..and our perception of the universe, is a product of us. we are conscious of the universe because we are in it..not because it purposely placed us here. the universe is a product of our perception because if humans didnt exist..then there would be no humans to perceive it. other life?..yes, most likely..but humans?..nope..

and you're correct..i dont know enough about the universe..but judging by your statements - neither do you. i'll continue to make this claim until you reply with something that doesnt warrant an argumentative rebuttal from me. also, i will happily forfeit my position on this subject if you happen to somehow predict, the next terrorist attack on america, based on the movements of stars..


lastly, if you see yourself as not being an idiot..dont get so offended when one person says another person is one..makes ya look a little bit too self conscious..



-UC

Several things will happen but I will not reveal that kind of information.

i'd rather be surprised anyway..





-UC

That's very good.

we forget that the world has gotten BIGGER since then. back then the 'the world' was a lot smaller space, quite probably the next valley over and back. Its not that hard to end a world that small.
Altho kudos for the mayans for planning the end of the world several thousand years after theirs was destroyed... that bit always gets me.. they weren't that wise.. they missed their own ending, and people seemed to think the lovely little natives gave us the date for the destruction of OUR world.

Luci, you seem to believe that all ancient people's were stupid as well as being ignorant. The mayans were not some backwoods idiots who couldn't see past the end of their nose's like you like to think. All things end. They missed nothing. And it is not OUR world. We don't OWN one grain of sand of it. I am sure many of them may have said exactly what you just said. Many civilizations have come and gone. The present so-called "civilization" we live in is no more civilized than they were. Our's will end and good riddance to it, as it holds it's own preposterous atrocities. And you are wrong. The world has gotten smaller since then. It is you and your head which have grown.

these sort of replies just arent valid since the only way you can make such a reply is by not reading one ounce of this thread..





-UC

Good gosh I could not agree more........all it is is the end of an ancient calendar whats the big deal with it? Man has been predicting his own doom since 46BC and we are still here. I wonder whats going to happen when man finally gets it right? Chances are he won't but the panic it would cause would be devastating. This False Prophetic stuff is nothing more than some nut trying to get rich off the unknowning the very people that will run out to the grocery store and buy up milk and bread expecting the worse only to wake up and find it was a hoax to start with.

I agree, especially when hoaxes were a prevalent and harsh reality in the age of the Mayans. In fact, i've heard the Mayans actually created this calender hoax with the intent to play a joke on the societies of the 21st century. What a devious scheme.




-UC

this is just moronic.

Lemme explain to you that the Mayans werent always the Mayans. A group of people became the Mayans. The Mayans, as a civilization, didnt just spark out of thin air one day - when the day before no sort of Mayan ancestry existed at all. As we have ancestors - so did the Mayans. I really shouldnt have to say anymore to prove my point here. I agree that in one form or another, the 2012 thing is a bit blown out of proportion..but saying the Mayans wouldnt know what happened before their time because they didnt exist, is like saying human history doesnt exist. Your statement suggests that humans as they are today know nothing about what happened in the past, because humans as they are today didnt exist then. Ancestry would be the key word in my rebuttal.



please tell me you use your brain..

and by no offense do i choose my words - but i think most of us learned these facts in highschool..



-UC

The one true thing I find interesting about this subject is the two sides of the coin.
One has an open and mostly I would say positive and maybe even fearful idea of what the future may be. The other simply refuses it altogether in, I must say, a negative manner.
Both sides of this coin are inherently average human behaviour. And quite boring when put together.
The fact is, we perceive time in OUR time so differently than did ancient cultures that is is sureally alien to try and understand time from their point of view.
What we do know is what has already been posted many times before. What really matters is not staring at your calendar like some 20th cent. idiot with a self-setting solar-powered watch such as I have but never wear, but in the paying of more attention to .....everything really. Maybe things that we normally don't pay attention to (stop looking at your calendars) hold glimpses, per se, of what IS to come. Paying no attention at all just means that you are less aware of what is going on around you and would rather be left to one's own devices, but it certainly does not say anything else. Any idiot can look at a calendar & that includes any & every calendar known in our present day. Calendars are simply for reference of time itself. They were never meant to predict anything.
We are neither right nor wrong in wanting change nor in not wanting change. No one can predict an exact future of a planet with so many variables as we have. I dare all of you to stop mesmerizing yourself with what time is it now and simply start becoming more aware of your own selves in relationship to the earth the thing on which we live. That will be a tall order for those with small minds who think so highly of themselves that they cannot see past their own nose. To argue over what may be is pathetic.

THERE IS but ONE truth.

Carved on the side of the GREAT PYRAMID OF GAZA , in the language of the KINGS , it is written FOR THOSE WITH WIT TO READ IT .

That every 30 days, or approximately 32.3 Mayan Bh'um'Fluffs,

Some FOOL will create a new post about the Mayans, the number 5200, and the year 2012.

And Thus it will Be for all eternity.

Anyway, we all KNOW that 2012 is going to be a catastrophe, at least for people in London, UK.

We're hosting the Olympics !

Meow Purr.

Puffed up pride. Westerners/Europeans have for years belittled the ‘knowledge’ of the traditional natives world wide. Whether it has to do with their way of living pre invasion, or whether it be over their knowledge of natural medicines, and their knowledge of the planetary and star workings put down to ‘co-incidence’. We discover something they knew for thousands of years but we had to find out be use of a telescope only the past several hundred years. We rape the rain forests with full knowledge that vital medicines are lost. Many of the medicines we have today come from the plants found in rainforests that the natives had full knowledge of their healing power, but when they end up as tablets with contaminants added in our chemists, it’s “Look what modern science has done.”

And things are relative. Civilization depends on who is defining it. American natives numbered 60,000,000 before the arrival of white man with his diseases, religion and the gun. Reducing the population to around 800,000 at its lowest point. ‘Civilization’ today has brought poverty beyond measure. More sickness then we can poke a stick at despite claiming to be more advance than ever before with medicine. Most people today spend their entire existence working or thinking of ways to get by in today’s ‘civilized’ world.

But the so called ‘savages’ before their lands were raped and taken from them lived in well functioning tribes, that extended to tribes getting together to make sure they respected each others territory that was given them by the Great Spirit to care for NOT own.

Like the Mayan (Who were the Hopi’s ancestors), the Hopi Natives have recorded in their history eras. We are now about to enter the fifth era that will cause horrendous upheavals of the earth. But it is not the end of the world, it is the beginning of a new era. I believe 2012 marks that end of cycle time for the earth. Again, it depends on which side of the fence one resides to whether it is good or bad. A rebirth of Mother Earth is a celebration of renewal. With any birthing there is pain. But without birth we can not move forward.

IMO, we are feeling the affects of the cycle now. It is a gradual process that is now intensifying. Mayan calendar or no calendar we are diving into unpleasant times and the time to prepare was yesterday…but anyways, who wanted to listen to the traditional native many, many decades ago. IMO, we sure going to know about some things by the end of this year.

For me it is an exciting time which I look forward to along with any remaining traditional natives and a growing number of those who have like mind and heart. And like others, I look forward to the passing of 2012 so it is no longer an issue. The traditional natives won't be indulging in dooms day predictions now or in the future. Dooms days seems to be the folly of those in the West who have lost their connection with Mother Earth and the planetary system and their intimate interconnecting relationships. And when I speak of Dooms day, I mean END of world, not the RENEWAL of it as defined by the traditional native. The Hopi call it the Purification. Again, good or bad depends on the fence.

Love and peace,
Sam