Why does the christian God wait until after death to judge, punish or reward us? Why not do these things while we are alive? Do the concepts of hell and salvation give the church purpose? Does the church have a purpose without these concepts? Is it meant to keep people submissive and behaving in the current life?
Full Version: Why Would God Wait?
Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Spirituality, Religion and Beliefs
The thing is, before Jesus Christ, a lot of the time, God did not wait. If someone committed evil, they were punished then and there. The Old Testament is filled with examples of this. It is this that has led to the misconception that the Old Testament God is violent and judgemental while the New Testament God is a loving hippie. You bring up a very good point. The exact same judgement given in the Old Testament is promised to us all. God's character has not changed, only his timing in bringing punishment and reward.
But you ask WHY God waits till death. I guess i would ask if you would rather be struck dead this instant for doing wrong? When Jesus was born, died and then resurrected, the path for salvation was made complete. The punishment of death for wrong-doing (sin) is no longer meted out on the spot as it was at one point in time. But the promise of that punishment is still exactly the same.
But if you are looking for a concrete reason why God waits until death to judge us, I don't know if there is one. It's just the way God has planned it to be.
But you ask WHY God waits till death. I guess i would ask if you would rather be struck dead this instant for doing wrong? When Jesus was born, died and then resurrected, the path for salvation was made complete. The punishment of death for wrong-doing (sin) is no longer meted out on the spot as it was at one point in time. But the promise of that punishment is still exactly the same.
But if you are looking for a concrete reason why God waits until death to judge us, I don't know if there is one. It's just the way God has planned it to be.
He likes to remain hidden.
In an essay that I read the author pointed out that in the OT God was vengful, jealous, murderous and cruel but in the NT he sends his son to salvage mankind. The carrot and stick analogy says that the structure of Christianity is offering the carrot (JC) in exchange for certain behaviors but wacking with the stick when outside the accepted behavior.
The author speculated that the worshiper was easier to control by the church in older times by having a negative affect for undesired actions as well as a positive. In the analogy if man tried to obtain the carrot by non sanctioned means he was bopped with the stick..non sanction being meathods other than accepting salvation through Christ. Within the framework of the carrot and stick analogy life on earth is like a purgatory hell is the stick and heaven the carrot.
Again I have to say look up the term Demiurge:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge
The God of the Bible is apparently such a deity and certainly not the true God, or the All:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_All
And we do get punished or rewarded as we live already no need to wait for death to get the glory:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughtform
And the related Law of Attraction:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_attraction
The Mental Plane is also worth looking into:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_plane
And of course the Kybalion which sums up the main principles of the hermetic teachings:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kybalion
To know more about what Jesus was, how he got into being, and what the purpose of christianity was and is, look at this documentary that explains it:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331
Best wishes!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge
The God of the Bible is apparently such a deity and certainly not the true God, or the All:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_All
And we do get punished or rewarded as we live already no need to wait for death to get the glory:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughtform
And the related Law of Attraction:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_attraction
The Mental Plane is also worth looking into:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_plane
And of course the Kybalion which sums up the main principles of the hermetic teachings:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kybalion
To know more about what Jesus was, how he got into being, and what the purpose of christianity was and is, look at this documentary that explains it:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331
Best wishes!
There is very little difference between the god of the OT and that of the NT. The first is more loving and less judgemental than often implied and the latter still expects us to obey his laws and to follow him, if we wish to acheive immortality.
When you read the bible it is quite clear that god does not intend all our rewards or punishments to be in heaven His laws and commandments are not intended simply as some sort of sifting proces to work out who will get top heaven.
In fact the primary pupose of his laws and commandments, as outlined in the bible, is to provide a frame work whereby basically imperfect/sinful humanity can still achieve the best most healthy outcomes on earth. In the same way the jewish laws of sacrifice allowed the transference of their sins into the priest; and once a year into the scapegoat which was led away from the tribe into the wilderness, taking all the accumulated sins with it.
In the new testament and under the new covenant with christians this sacrifice was replaced by jesus who took our sins onto himself and literally became the scape goat by which those sins were removed from us.
Thus in both earthly matters ,and spiritual ones; rewards, punishment and the transference of sin occurred as much on earth as in heaven.
If you follow biblical principles you will receive incredible earthly benefits ranging from emotional spiritual contenment/bliss through to the many practical benefits ensuing from such a life. These include everything from removal of financial worries, to a much healthier and fitter life and a much safer and probably longer life.
People who truly follow such principles almost inevitably accrue these benefits for quite logical reasons. There are exceptions of course, and bad things still do happen to good people. My personal experience goes even further than most, in that god intervenes directly to protect me from many accidents and bad things.
I appreciate this is not true for everyone and I can offer no explanation for this. It is not because i am any better a person than the many other people who do not enjoy gods direct protection. None the less, many aspects of my life protect me from the physical and emotional traumas suffered by so many peolpe today, and these advantages are available to anyone.
God, not so much the church, does expect people to submit to his will, but this is because doing his will will richly reward us., while not doing so is destructive both to us as individuals and to the societies in which we live.
Most modern christians accept that we obey god because of our love for him, and our appreciation of all the blessings he has given us, rather than through any sense of fear.There is, after all, nothing really to fear for a believer in the biblical precepts of christianity. There is no hell, and all those who; accept jesus as a saviour, believe in god, and do their best to follow his will are guaranteed salvation.
churches have many functions beyond "preaching sin and forgiveness", although the catholic church has had a preoccupation with this aspect of christianity over the las two millenia and has used punishment as a way of maintaining both belief and orthodoxy within the faith.
When you read the bible it is quite clear that god does not intend all our rewards or punishments to be in heaven His laws and commandments are not intended simply as some sort of sifting proces to work out who will get top heaven.
In fact the primary pupose of his laws and commandments, as outlined in the bible, is to provide a frame work whereby basically imperfect/sinful humanity can still achieve the best most healthy outcomes on earth. In the same way the jewish laws of sacrifice allowed the transference of their sins into the priest; and once a year into the scapegoat which was led away from the tribe into the wilderness, taking all the accumulated sins with it.
In the new testament and under the new covenant with christians this sacrifice was replaced by jesus who took our sins onto himself and literally became the scape goat by which those sins were removed from us.
Thus in both earthly matters ,and spiritual ones; rewards, punishment and the transference of sin occurred as much on earth as in heaven.
If you follow biblical principles you will receive incredible earthly benefits ranging from emotional spiritual contenment/bliss through to the many practical benefits ensuing from such a life. These include everything from removal of financial worries, to a much healthier and fitter life and a much safer and probably longer life.
People who truly follow such principles almost inevitably accrue these benefits for quite logical reasons. There are exceptions of course, and bad things still do happen to good people. My personal experience goes even further than most, in that god intervenes directly to protect me from many accidents and bad things.
I appreciate this is not true for everyone and I can offer no explanation for this. It is not because i am any better a person than the many other people who do not enjoy gods direct protection. None the less, many aspects of my life protect me from the physical and emotional traumas suffered by so many peolpe today, and these advantages are available to anyone.
God, not so much the church, does expect people to submit to his will, but this is because doing his will will richly reward us., while not doing so is destructive both to us as individuals and to the societies in which we live.
Most modern christians accept that we obey god because of our love for him, and our appreciation of all the blessings he has given us, rather than through any sense of fear.There is, after all, nothing really to fear for a believer in the biblical precepts of christianity. There is no hell, and all those who; accept jesus as a saviour, believe in god, and do their best to follow his will are guaranteed salvation.
churches have many functions beyond "preaching sin and forgiveness", although the catholic church has had a preoccupation with this aspect of christianity over the las two millenia and has used punishment as a way of maintaining both belief and orthodoxy within the faith.
The only difference I see between the OT & the NT is the people who believe in him. You have the Jews which the OT is their bible & what they believe.
Then you have the NT which seems to me is someone didn't like the old God so they changed him to suit their needs. To me reading this earth comes across in the Bible as a pointless middleman or middleplace of existance that is away from the God you love to test you for a result he already knows.
Then you have the NT which seems to me is someone didn't like the old God so they changed him to suit their needs. To me reading this earth comes across in the Bible as a pointless middleman or middleplace of existance that is away from the God you love to test you for a result he already knows.
QUOTE (norwood1026 @ Feb 20 2008, 08:54 PM) 
In an essay that I read the author pointed out that in the OT God was vengful, jealous, murderous and cruel but in the NT he sends his son to salvage mankind. The carrot and stick analogy says that the structure of Christianity is offering the carrot (JC) in exchange for certain behaviors but wacking with the stick when outside the accepted behavior.
The author speculated that the worshiper was easier to control by the church in older times by having a negative affect for undesired actions as well as a positive. In the analogy if man tried to obtain the carrot by non sanctioned means he was bopped with the stick..non sanction being meathods other than accepting salvation through Christ. Within the framework of the carrot and stick analogy life on earth is like a purgatory hell is the stick and heaven the carrot.
The author speculated that the worshiper was easier to control by the church in older times by having a negative affect for undesired actions as well as a positive. In the analogy if man tried to obtain the carrot by non sanctioned means he was bopped with the stick..non sanction being meathods other than accepting salvation through Christ. Within the framework of the carrot and stick analogy life on earth is like a purgatory hell is the stick and heaven the carrot.
In the OT, the ruling god was Satan. In is believed that Satan used the concepts of hell and damnation, but it was reversed. Doing evil would get you lasting rewards and with some the concept still is the same. They trick you by some sleight of hand and deception. But that also has become a trademark of Christianity, i.e. 'Be as wise as a serpent and innocent as a dove.'
QUOTE (greggK @ Feb 21 2008, 08:56 PM)
In the OT, the ruling god was Satan. In is believed that Satan used the concepts of hell and damnation, but it was reversed. Doing evil would get you lasting rewards and with some the concept still is the same. They trick you by some sleight of hand and deception. But that also has become a trademark of Christianity, i.e. 'Be as wise as a serpent and innocent as a dove.'
In the OT Satan was doing what God told him to do.
QUOTE (norwood1026 @ Feb 20 2008, 08:10 PM)
Why does the christian God wait until after death to judge, punish or reward us? Why not do these things while we are alive? Do the concepts of hell and salvation give the church purpose? Does the church have a purpose without these concepts? Is it meant to keep people submissive and behaving in the current life?
Why are you focusing on the judgment? The Christian walk is about a relationship with God that is freely offered through Jesus Christ with no strings attached. If you fear judgment, then the confidence of God's grace through Jesus Christ is not in you. I pray that it can.
Why does the LORD wait until after death?
Because it will be done at one. Not several. Its going to be a mass judgment or reward. Those that trusted Jesus will go to His right, while those that rejected Him will go to the left. God has been quite unfair with us and its a good thing. If He had been fair to us, then none of us would have a chance. However, there will be a time when things will have to be fair, and those that are seen with Jesus, will live while those that stood apart from Him will not. There will be righeousness and truth in the Kingdom of God. He is taking over, and there won't be room for those that chose to reject His grace.
As for the Church's purpose: Our purpose is to point toward Christ, live out His teachings, and accept those that Christ brings to God.
QUOTE (Bluefinger @ Feb 22 2008, 05:22 AM)
Why are you focusing on the judgment? The Christian walk is about a relationship with God that is freely offered through Jesus Christ with no strings attached. If you fear judgment, then the confidence of God's grace through Jesus Christ is not in you. I pray that it can.
Why does the LORD wait until after death?
Because it will be done at one. Not several. Its going to be a mass judgment or reward. Those that trusted Jesus will go to His right, while those that rejected Him will go to the left. God has been quite unfair with us and its a good thing. If He had been fair to us, then none of us would have a chance. However, there will be a time when things will have to be fair, and those that are seen with Jesus, will live while those that stood apart from Him will not. There will be righeousness and truth in the Kingdom of God. He is taking over, and there won't be room for those that chose to reject His grace.
As for the Church's purpose: Our purpose is to point toward Christ, live out His teachings, and accept those that Christ brings to God.
Why does the LORD wait until after death?
Because it will be done at one. Not several. Its going to be a mass judgment or reward. Those that trusted Jesus will go to His right, while those that rejected Him will go to the left. God has been quite unfair with us and its a good thing. If He had been fair to us, then none of us would have a chance. However, there will be a time when things will have to be fair, and those that are seen with Jesus, will live while those that stood apart from Him will not. There will be righeousness and truth in the Kingdom of God. He is taking over, and there won't be room for those that chose to reject His grace.
As for the Church's purpose: Our purpose is to point toward Christ, live out His teachings, and accept those that Christ brings to God.
Maybe but perhaps the real reason is because the Jewish people liked the idea of a vengeful God & the Christians did not so they changed the bible to suite their needs.
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