How many times have we all been asked, and have asked ourselves “what does the future hold”? We are told to “look to the future” and plan for it. How about “making memories”? Everything we are told to do is for the future. We make plans for the future; make memories for the future, go to school for the future and so forth. My question is this: what ever happened to the only time we are ever really in… right now? The truth is that every planet, every star, every rotation of a planet, the way a planet goes around it’s star and the way in which a moon goes around it’s planet is circular. Even the hands of a clock go round and round, but the concept of time is supposed to be linear. Logically, this makes no sense.

We go to college, not to experience going to class, learning and growing, but “for the future”, and the funny thing is, after graduation during an interview, the question is asked “where do you see yourself in 5 years”! Life is being lived by billions of people for a time they will never see. When the time arrives that was looked forward to, it is no longer the future. It becomes now. Everyone speaks of the future as if it is a destination. It’s not. It is a concept that is never realized. The truth is, there is only right here, right now.

Instead of living life to “make memories”, we should be living now to the fullest, experience every minute to the fullest? If life is lived for the future then the here and now is not the focus of attention. Here and now is where life is lived. Why grow up to become something instead of living every day as the best we can be? We are not here to make memories, which are only mental recollections of a now that has passed. On the contrary, if we live for today, giving ourselves completely to the here and now, the future will take care of itself. We must understand that the future becomes now, but now will never become the future. To live for the future is to live in a way that is constantly taking all our attention away from what is right in front of us, which at one point, was looked at as being "the future".

When I was in high-school, we would always wonder what it would be like in 2000. Truth is, when 2000 came, it wasn’t the future anymore. 2000 was the present. 2000 was now, because we never get to the future. We are always in one big “here and now” regardless of the date or the time on the clock. If we do not live for now, we are missing out on all the wonder that is around us. People look ahead to the summer when it is cold and then look to the winter because it is too hot, and never give attention to the beauty of either one, because they look ahead to a season and when that season comes, they look ahead to the next one. It is comical when seen this way because of the irony of it, but it is sad also because it takes all attention away from living! To live looking ahead is the same as saying that “I will begin living when I finish this”, or “I am doing this now, for later”. How about doing things for now and understanding that the benefits have a lasting value, instead of saying that it basically has no current value? A tree does not grow to become something later. A tree grows because it is focused on it now.

Here is the reality of it… we do something for the future, but when it is done and the future becomes now, it is not seen because now something else is being done for yet another future. The cycle continues until decades go by planning and doing for a future that never comes. This reminds me of the saying “one in the hand is worth more two in the bush”. This is basically says that what you have and are doing now is far more important than what you think you will have later. The here and now is a real and tangible state of being while the future is only a concept. In short, I hope that after reading this, you will begin to look around you and begin to see the value in what is right now. By doing so, by giving your all right now, you will ensure that the now that will be is better. The greatest thing is that you will be giving it the attention then to actually appreciate it, and always remember that is it very undesirable to live the “care free life”. To live care free is to live without caring, and that nothing to live for.

We are all here to improve both ourselves and help others do the same. This can only be done in the here and now. Remember to take care of today and you will not have a need to plan for tomorrow. Being a responsible and caring person will take care of that. Live today, LOVE today, care today, because tomorrow truly never comes.

I agree with you 100% on this post. I'm still trying to get better at just looking at the here and now, but sometimes the future pops up in my head. Society only cares about where we are going, how long will we survive, what happens after we die, etc. etc. How about we just enjoy the life that we have been given and live day by day and let the future unfold itself, and what happens will happen so don't worry about it.

LOL... I'm just listening to Eckhart Tolle at this moment...


The Power of Now...

http://www.wie.org/j18/tolle.asp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPg9DnMP2D4

Yessum, it reminded me of Eckhart Tolle as well. My friends psychologist told her to read it for anxiety - it is quite a powerful thing to be mindful of the present.

Nice words dragon15066

Yes... Nice Words!!!

Definitely my synchronistic message for today!!!


Thank you... it was very well written.. your reasoning was powerful.. enlightening...

I agree to an extent. It certainly is good to focus on the now. But I would not say that we should do so at expense of the future. If you don't think about the future at all, it leads to hedonism. Seeking whatever carnal desire you want at that time. See something you like - take it. Everything we do in the now must needs to be tempered by what will happen tomorrow. Because as has been said already. Tomorrow will very soon become the Today. Don't wreck tomorrow just so you can enjoy yourself today.

Just a few thoughts to consider

~ PA

I completely agree with you...too many people are concerned with what happens when they die or in the future, we have very little time on this earth, why waste it worrying about things we cant control, sometimes you need to stop and smell the roses...

I couldn't agree more.

I've read The Power of Now, and I think it makes the reader aware of their own internal dialog. Tolle highlights that if one will examine their thoughts, they might be amazed just how often their mental energy is spent on past and/or future thoughts. It can be mentally draining, and can rob one of the awareness of life's simple pleasures. It certainly was the case for me until I became the watcher of my thoughts.



With all due respect, PA...why the need to draw attention to such things? What I gathered from the OP was "don't live for the future", not to never think about it.

The OP ended with:




From what I gathered, the OP was trying to convey the message that there should be more focus on the journey, rather than the destination. How many spend a good bit of their attention thinking about what they are going to do next year, next month, the next day, the next hour, the next minute, completely unaware of the moment at hand. That, imo, was made quite clear by Dragon. Basically, do not take life for granted now.


If anything, being aware of the moment, as it unfolds, brings a richness to life. Certainly, thoughts of the future do serve a purpose, as do memories of the past, but many minds are consumed with such thoughts, which can create worry and lead to unnecessary suffering.


Respectfully,

~V

"Unease, anxiety, tension, stress, worry — all forms of fear — are cause by too much future, and not enough presence. Guilt, regret, resentment, grievances, sadness, bitterness, and all forms of non-forgiveness are caused by too much past, and not enough presence"

"Be present as the watcher of your mind -- of your thoughts and emotions as well as your reactions in various situations. Notice also how often your attention is in the past or future."

"The mind is a superb instrument if used rightly. Used wrongly, however, it becomes very destructive. To put it more accurately, it is not so much that you use your mind wrongly—you usually don't use it at all. It uses you."

"The greater part of human pain is unnecessary. It is self-created as long as the unobserved mind runs your life."

"Nothing ever happened in the past; it happened in the Now. Nothing will ever happen in the future; it will happen in the Now"

~Eckhart Tolle

[size="4"][/size]One of the Major concerns of this post is that it is true that now has very little emphasis in general for most people, we all live amongst each other but are far too busy to stop take the time to breath, smell, listen, and learn of all that is around us now, and visualise a happy face a hand shake between strangers and just a good old hello.

In the business of the hussell and bussell of getting up we actually in majorities are all programmed weather we like it or not to play the repeatitive game of routine cleansing eating working social activities and a bit of the old procreativity if your lucky and sleep.

As much as we try to acheive our best in the moment and the so called now how can we?, for we are all programed to wake up move forward and sleep.

For me if I had the time to live in the now I would be so unhappy with the pollution in the air the high price's of dairy products and meats, technology that seems to be in my face where ever I try to find a tranquil spot, Lack of personalities, Lack of responsible beings around me and so on and so on.

Past present and future is what in general most of us should consider especially your own family tree, If we could grasp even a little concept of those who have come before us then our present live's would be open to evolving in a harmonious peace and tranquil living standard, there would be no need to expand our bank balance or build our mansion for three people or live in a cramped space with ten people because we would of truely listened and learnt from the past and gathered enough evidence to live in respect for all those who have passed and all those that live now.

Our universe Our god has planned a beginning and ending you can be sure of only that. The being of our own live's is one that you have a choice to share with God or share with the Universe either one you should know that you are from a muched loved higher being and that everything you acheive in the moment is yours to own and that is what makes us Unique. For no one being experience's the same emotion in the same moment.

Here is a technique I use that is very relevent to this topic. It is based on a Buddhist concept called "Mindfulness" and I use it to combat the effects of worry and depression, with some success I may add.

I'll try to explain. The idea is to as much as possible have your consciousness habiting this very moment, second by second. One has to use some conscious effort to do this but the aim is for this to become a natural state as opposed to one you have to put effort into.

You have to realise that thoughts carry no weight and most of them are not relevent to one's immediate state, the moment in time you inhabit as you go about your business. These unnecessary thoughts can be discarded. At any one time, if you pay attention to the "chatter" of one's consciousness, one's thoughts, the narrative you give as you go about your actions, you will quickly see that the mind is awash with all sorts of thoughts and ideas most of which are actually unimportant for your immediate wellbeing.

It is most important to discard these thoughts. This is not so easy to do at first but there are ways and means. I find the easiest way to discard these thoughts and come to a state of queit mind is to focus on one of a couple of things for a few seconds. One is simply to think of only the next few breaths I take, to really feel the sensation of the air entering my nose, the temperature of the air as it enters my body. To truly feel those things.

Another is to focus on the sensation of an object I am touching, it could even be the texture of the steering wheel under my fingers when in the car. Or the feeling of my feet in my shoes on the ground. If you do this for a few seconds and discard other thoughts other than those necessary for immediate wellbeing you will notice a peacful feeling in your mind, an uncluttered mind.

Now, the problem is realising when you need to invoke Mindfulness, a hard thing to do when the mind is full and racing with chatter. Here's the trick. With practice you can ingraine cues into the mind. Some people try to invoke mindfulness when crossing the threshhold of a door way or other regular action. Personally, I am only generally able to use this technique when I consciously realise my mind is racing, I am stressed and uptight. My aim is for the very sensation of racing thoughts to cue my efforts at invoking mindfulness.

Currently my use of mindfulness is remedial but I hope to be in such a state one day that it is preventative.

The aim is to learn to permanantly, and without effort, live in the very moment.


Here's a link to an article that may be of more use to you than my own interpretation of mindfulness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness

I live mostly in the here and now maybe a little too much. Sometimes it gets me into trouble. I have learned to live this way cause of my multiple sclerosis. I don't know what my future will be. I am walking today but tomorrow I might not, so the here and now is a very safe place for me. I am actually trying to get a little more about thinking and planning for the future. I planted a container garden. I am really look forward to my first big salad from it. I go out and talk to the plants everyday. It is like everything you have to have balance, you can live for today, but you have to remember more than likely the sun is going to come up tomorrow. The bills need to be paid and the kids might want to go to college.

It's really good to see people reading this. I actually typed this after I had a conversation with my mother about how depressed my brother has been with a recent break-up. After I told her all these things (because it was making her feel depressed), I decided that others would like to read it. I guess my main point, to make it really to the point, is that when we decide to achieve something, or even drive somewhere, we never really appreciate the journey. I have driven several places, so wrapped up in my thoughts, that I didn't even remember the trip! My article is to show that, with a change of perspective, we can notice all the little, and not-so-little things along the way. After all, the trip is just as important as the destination. At the time, it is even more important, because without the journey, the destination would never be realized, and who knows what we may learn or what beauty we may see along the way! Another good concept is to understand that when we are looking at pictures of times past, we are doing it in the now, the picture is in our hands now, and really, I think that's why we take them...to further appreciate today. After all, it does make us feel very good, like a song from a different era, and it makes us feel good right here, right now, and that is a very wonderful thing.

Almost forgot... where can I get the book that was mentioned by InnerSpace "The Power of Now"? Sounds like something I would like. Another good one is "Zen Mind, Beginners Mind" by Suzuki and "The Iron Cow of Zen" by Albert Low

Heidegger

George Orwell had a really palpable quote in this regard: "To see what is in front of one's nose requires a constant struggle. "

And it does take constant struggle. alot of times we are missing what is really important because we are always looking into the future........or even worse!!!!........dwellling in the past.

Some people dwell in the past just as much as some delude about the future. My Grandfather used to always say..."If ya got one foot in the past , and one in the future, then your pissing on today"

He was a wise one!

I think it takes more faith living in the moment .... you have to trust what will come that God will have you handle.

you know the old saying " One foot in yesterday ... one foot in tomorrow and your pissing all over today"

MATTHEW 6

26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?


I'm not christian but I always remember that verse.

If you do what your supposed to do today making the most of it .... the rest will fall into place. It's all a plan and has purpose. may not be pretty or easy ,.........

Im not sure that it is possible to live only in the now. We are "now" both a product of our past and, less tangibly, of our future.

One must think about the future or else one would act without thought of consequence ; eg drive on the wrong side of the road. have unprotected sex with a stranger and every degree in between.

I can see the point in trying to achieve a balance, but that will depend on an individual. Personally i intensify my experience of now by tying it to past, and future, experiences. Thus I take the trouble and effort to learn a new skill because i visualise the fun or benefit i will get out of it once I have mastered it.

Personally i can see how one might master the ability to exclude other influences and live momentarily in the now, but i can't actually see the point in putting so much time and effort into developing such a technique. If you feel your life is out of balance there are a lot less time consuming and easier strategies to try first.

I am very fortunate, in that every day is packed with fun and interesting experiences; so much so that i am lucky if i get more than 6 hours sleep a day. It has been like this for all of my 56 years and i worry about running out of time and energy to live all aspects of my life as i get older.. At the moment i have discovered the wonderful world of warcraft on line. This is an extension of both computer gaming, and writing and playing dungeon and dragon modules for many years as a family pursuit. So as not to cut into family time, or physical activity, i have had to trade off almost all my tv viewing and several hours of reading each day. If I just lived in the now i would be tempted to play wow for 18 hours a day, but self discipline and experience warns me of the dangers of this.

well said, We only have but a breath in time so try not to exhale so quickly

I've never heard that phrase before...I love it!!!



From reading some responses from a few posters here, I think that perhaps the concept of living in the now is not fully understood.



Developing such a technique doesn't necessarily take any more time than spending hours playing video games or hanging out on UM. It's not always easy at first, just like learning to master a new video game, or learning the art of debate. Mr. Walker, seeing your passion for life based on some of the comments you made in your last paragraph, is a good example of living in the now, imo. But before you get too puffed up, , lol, being fully present doesn't mean you disregard the past or future, but it is very important to become aware of how much time one spends thinking about the past and future.

As the OP has stated, our thoughts are often either fixed on the past or the future, therefore the mind registers only a minimal amount of what is taking place in the present moment. Basically, we begin to function on autopilot, and much of the wonder and beauty of life passes us by unnoticed.

Like the example Dragon gave: when we are driving or riding to our destination, we are more likely to spend the trip thinking about our destination, rather than appreciating the passing scenery around us (the journey).

While sitting at the dinner table, how often do we find ourselves replaying the events of the day, mulling over 'what-ifs' and 'should-have-saids' as we chew and swallow our food absent mindedly? In fact, most of us are so intent on looking either forward or backward at life that we go through much of it as if in a dream state, with a limited awareness of present reality.

Children are a great example of living in the now. They tend to experienced life to the fullest. They can do this with ease because for the most part, their needs are being met (food, shelter, love, etc.), so they have little reason to concern themselves with the past or worrying about their future. They experience the fresh edge of wonder at each new discovery of the world around them.

As children grow into adults, however, that feeling of awe diminishes because they become caught up in the effort of survival and the demands of time. Most of us spend at least eight hours of every day at some form of employment. When we are not working, we more than likely concern ourselves with other necessities such as social commitments, chores, the demands of children and spouses, etc., thus engaging the autopilot, which allows us to physically function while we mentally jump ahead to the next task. After a while, this becomes a habitual mode of existence, and our awareness of the world around us narrows because we are rarely fully present in the moment.

When I first became aware of my lack of awareness of the present, I was shocked. My mind was full of useless chatter. It was difficult at first to make these necessary changes because I was so use to being on autopilot. I wanted to regain that sense of newness and awaken from my state of ‘sleepwalking‘.

As adults, we tend to complicate things. Learning to see the world like children again can be accomplished, though it may not be easy at first. It’s all about intent and becoming mindful of every action that we undertake. In the beginning we may have to constantly remind ourselves to pay close attention to our actions, but in time...being present becomes habit.

To make a point, how many of us actually relish the sensation of chewing and tasting our food, or like Dragon mentioned, the sensation of feeling our hands gripping the steering wheel of the car as we are driving.

Even the simplest things, such as noticing the muscles used as we smile, the feel of shaking someone’s hand or giving someone a hug, must be undertaken with the mind fully focused on the task if we are to awaken to our own existence in the now. The habit of living in the past and/or future inside our own heads can be a difficult one to break at first, and perhaps time consuming, but again, I will reiterate...it doesn’t take any more time or focus than absorbing ourselves in a hobby.

Once we begin to practice paying attention, being mindful of what we are doing, we begin to make full use of our five senses so that we are actually tasting our food, enjoying the sensations of movement, feeling the breeze against our skin and the sun on our face. Be begin to discover, with wonder, the many things around us that have previously gone unnoticed. Life takes on a whole new meaning. It feels like being in love, or making love, because all your senses are alive, your focus intense. You become fully present, in the moment.

Our amazement at this phenomenon causes us to become aware of our previous ‘sleeping’ state, and the more we become aware of this, the more effort we will want to put into remaining awake to our own experiences. The newness of our awareness keeps us looking around to see what else we may have missed, and living becomes so much more rewarding. Life becomes fascinating once again as we regain that childlike sense of awe in everything we experience. When we begin to awaken to our surroundings and to our 5 senses, we begin to feel the exhilaration of being fully conscious in the present moment, we begin to fully live!!!



I think the techniques Papaver has posted are excellent!



Hi Dragon, You shouldn't have any problems finding this book, either online, or in most book stores. It's a popular book.

edit:typos

My first thought as i read this was how silly. It assumes an either /or about our mental processes, and ignores the fact that our brain is quite capable of taking in, and analysing, data from many sources at once. This means that it can, without losing any detail, observe the now, reflect on the past, and consider the ramifications for the future all at the same time.. In fact, our brains are designed to put observed data into a short term memory storage at first, and only transfer the memories into long term storage once they have been processed through many functions such as; analysis, comparison, value etc. So one can be living in the now, while thinking about past and present. In fact one should do, otherwise one only observes the now, and does not add any value to that observation through analysis or reflection.

As you went on I could see the basic sense in what you were saying, but the child's perspective of the now is not necesarily a better perspective. Children have fewer memories or points of comparison with which to evaluate the now. They have very little comprehension of cause and effect, or the linear nature of time. Thus, it is a lack of skills, rather than a sense of wonder or innocence which grounds them in the now

. Saying that adults should choose to limit themselves in this way, is like saying that we should not learn too read because we might lose our early sense of wonder at picture books.

Eventually it is necessary to move onto higher order types of thinking . This does not mean we have to lose our sense of awe and wonder at life. I have maintained this all my life but translated it to more sophisticated levels than those of my childhood.

In a balanced life, your work, your partner, your friends, your environment, should never cease to amaze you.
If they do, then you are correct. You need to ask why this is happening. You might be right, you might simply be overthinking things. Or it might be something else, perhaps you do not have enough challenge and diversity. Perhaps the way you are thinking about things is distracting you.

There is no reason why thinking, as a process in itself, cannote actually promote a huge sense of awe and wonder, as we contemplate the; complexity, power and limitations of the human mind.

One of my most vivid, and wonderful, memories from my teenage years is the nights my mates and i would spend the early hours of the morning out under a starry sky, debating life, the universe and everything. (this often included the nature and role, of girls in ones life, but they actually made up only a small percentage of the topics debated.)

In the end, perhaps i am not disagreeing with you . If you have lost the ability to connect with the now, then re-learn it, but do not feel that you have to disassociate from the past, and future, in order to do so.

I'm pretty sure I made that clear.


Inner Space

Mr. Walker

Why am I not surprised, lol.



I've mentioned nothing about the "brain", which by the way happens to be one of my favorite topics.

At the risk of going OT, which I've been prone to do, I’ll leave it at that.

If you care to understand where I’m coming from with regard to the mind, I recommend the book:

"The Brain-Shaped Mind" ‘What The Brain Can Tell Us About The Mind‘ Naomi Goldblum, Ph.D Cambridge University

Sample: http://assets.cambridge.org/97805215/61044...521561044ws.pdf



Mr. Walker, we may have to agree to disagree.



I never said that adults should choose to limit themselves. Children have an awareness that adults tend to lose because children are generally not consumed with mind clutter.



I think it's wonderful that you've managed to fully remain in the 'now' for all of your 50 some years.

Personally, I'm thankful that I've been on both sides of the fence (so to speak), because the contrast has only made me become more appreciative of life. I can't possibly expect you to understand something you've never experienced before. You are actually the first person I've met, both in my professional and personal life, whom apparently has never suffered and/or struggled with such issues as excessive mind chatter, dwelling on the past and/or living for the future, which can cause a lack of awareness and appreciation of the senses and of one's surroundings.

This lack of mindfulness can and does keep one from remaining present.

I do appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts. I always find your posts interesting.

Kind regards,

~V

Edited to add link/modifications

Inner Space has perfectly described the meaning of my post! I see many saying that it is not good to live always for today, because we neglect tomorrow. This is not what I mean. We set a goal in the present, for the present to come. What is important is to take each step in achieving that goal, and appreciate it while it is being done. There is much we can learn from every step we take in assuring a better tomorrow.

I also want to mention that my neighbor was going to take those classes on the net that are being sponsored by Oprah. She said that she really didn't understand it so she gave me the book because she said that it reminded me of what I say. The book is called A New Earth and it's by the same author mentioned in previous replies...Eckhart Tolle At the bottom of the book it mentions that his first book was The Power of Now!
Talk about synchronicity!!

Forgive me if this has already been stated, but it seems that a part of Living in the Now is accepting the uncertainty of the future. Many of us like to plan - and this might apply moreso to those who have religious beliefs - for a future which we hope will be wonderful. I would like to see myself sitting on the deck with V, gazing at a brilliant setting sun - or lying on the beach at night, staring up into the clear sky and marvelling at the stars and sharing this magic with her. But that happens, when it happens, in the now, not in the future. Also, I can plan, but it might not happen - so why not accept the future may not bring you those things and instead choose to live life now, enjoying each day, each moment.

When I do this I am totally in the now, taking enjoyment from life and enhancing my journey to a destination none of us are knowing of. This destination, the future I alluded to earlier, is not the important thing as it cannot be known - no matter how strong one's belief - the journey is what is important and we should give our attention to that. An analogy I would make would be to those maritime explorers who wanted to discover new lands. Their destination was over the horizon, hidden from their sight, maybe even just a fantasy. They had a destination, to be sure, but when they were on the ocean they focussed on where they were, where they were going was their hope.

Haha!!! You're not kidding about synchronicity. The New Earth was the first book I read by Echhart Tolle, and it was profoundly life-changing for me. It had been recommended to me several years back, and it's message couldn't have come at a better time in my life. I was going to mention this book to you Dragon, as I personally found it more enlightening than The Power of Now, so I'm thrilled that you're going to read it. The New Earth was the book that made me acutely aware of my internal dialog and endless mind chatter. Let me know what you think of the book after you've read it. I'd love to hear your thoughts...no pun intended.



Who's "V"

Who indeed??

She is a mystery, not least to me, but that is part of the wonder of love and life, the discovery of who we, and those we love, are

I find myself agreing with most of the points you raised in response to my post.
This quote struck me


I don't think i am that unique, although I am increasingly aware that I am unusual in many ways.

However, this point brought back two specific memories. One, when i first discovered I was colour blind, and thus did not physically see the same world which others saw. This has both physical and psychological effects within a life.

Secondly, at high school, where I learned that other people apparently had the ability to consciously create visual images with their mind. When a teacher asked me to create a simple image and then rotate it in my mind, I had no idea what he was talking about. "Create a visual image'was not something i could do, and thus i was not really aware that it could be done.

My subconscious mind compensates wonderfully for this with the most wonderful controlled lucid dreaming; and I have always thought orally, not visually. All my thoughts, and processing, come in a number of levels, of streams of inner consciousness.
My brother has refined this facility even further. He can read a book, listen to tv, and talk to a group of people all at the same time. He can sustain this indefinitely and, later, answer questions about all three data sources with almost 100 % accurately.

On the other hand I developed an almost eidetic memory during 4 years at uni, so that i could remember all my lecture notes for the year when i went into exams. I also go to meetings, and can months later remember each speaker, motion etc. Both of these abilities have deteriorated though lack of use over time, but i still win a lot of prizes at quiz nights(one of my favourite recreational activities)
Reflecting on this made me realise two things. One, my facility with language from an exceptionally early age probably developed as compensation for not having any visual imagery. Second that in my post I was making the same sort of assumption that my old teacher made, 40 or more years ago. that because i posessed what i thought was an innate ability, posessed by all humans, i had not realised that this might not be so.

My mind learned early to cope with, and process, thoughts on many levels. Others may not have had the same experience. Thus i was possibly comparing chalk and chese, in comparing my experiences with those of others. It is always good to gain an extra perspective.

Ps not sure of your beliefs about brain vs mind but i deliberately used brain, because that is the organic processing unit which can be measured and evaluated. The mind, or how the brain translates data etc into self aware consciousness, is a different and more metaphysical/philosophical thing.

If i start with the assumption that without our brains , our minds would not exist, then i logically deduce that the functioning of our mind is determined by physical parameters and physical functions within the brain. Increasingly, with enhanced mris and other modern scientific advances, these links are being both qualified and quantified. However you probably knew that already.

pps i read the link you provided. it contains an argument (along with acceptable scientific information) which i have read before, which combines a philosophical approach to the mind with a physical approach to the brain. Philosophy is ok for discusssing our thought processes, but without a physical understanding of how our brains form and manipulate those thought patterns it is limiting as an explanation of the mind. ( i admit to an inherent prejudice against philosohical explanations of anything ) Never realised it, but i am probably a connectionist based on reading the preface.

Its strange that i had come to an identical understanding as these scientists, based on nothing more than observation, wide general reading of a non scientific nature, and a little specific reading on modern medicine and research such as that the dana institute is doing on brain function.

For example this preface says it does not know if scientists will ever be able to create memories in a mind. As part of the work the dana institute is doing, i read that scientists are almost capable now of creating false memories, or more likely restoring memories lost through damage to the brain.

This grew out of the now established ability to "capture" memory through an understanding of how memories are formed. Once scientists understood how memories are captured and created it immediately became theoreticaly feasible to generate and create false ones through simulated data transfer or implants. Technical feasibilty now seems to be very close to acheivement.