At present, scientists don't have an explanation for whichever psychic phenomenon you're talking about, because at present there is nothing to explain. Without even a well-defined phenomenon, asking how something works before asking whether it works would be silly - like theorising and experimenting to explain how Superman flies. Once a phenomenon has been shown to actually work, in reliable and replicable trials, then scientists working in relevant fields will rush on it, and there'll be a lot of attention to discover causes and mechanisms associated with it. Most psychic phenomena, if true, go against enough established science to warrant a substantial rethink on many current scientific premises, and these too would receive attention.

Assuming a paranormal phenomenon was shown to be true beyond doubt, we'd see first of all various 'best guesses' from experts in relevant scientific fields, some barmy and some conservative; then preliminary experiments which may help point the right direction out; then more rigorous scientific work to get to the bottom of the phenomenon. Science would be trying to explain and understand a phenomenon which has been shown to exist, and there would be nothing fraudulent about this.

I don't think a video is proof. And I don't think it's necessary. I don't think you need to make anybody here believe anything. It's not your responsibility what other people believe. It's not like you're being forced to spread the word of christ or something. Just let it go.

And to be honest, I wouldn't be totally convinced even if you did make a video. I can't help but consider it a maybe until I experience it for myself. That's just not how my mind works. I mean, I can't say for certainty that it's not true either, so it goes both ways. And I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't change anybody else's mind either.

Can you post a bit more clearly? You are not making sense.

The old saying fits so well to his claims. "Put up or shut up."

Yeah, you're taking this whole thing a little too seriously, I think.

There are also people on here dishing out bold claims on magical powers, with, (Guess what!) NO EVIDENCE.
There is not even a baseline on these abilities on how they work or even if they do work for that matter.

What you do see, is a bunch of teen sites and videos with bold claims, that is general add up to a bunch of
nothing, accept for the people who want to believe in these non-factual abilities.

Until you can give some tangible evidence, maybe you should concider just letting it go.


Regards,
Tom

Stay on this board for 3-4 years and see how these Peter Pan stories tick you off. It takes away from serious discussion on psychic powers.

I haven't seen a thread discussing psychic powers that are actually worth a proper discussion in quite a while.

Exactly. All we get is, kids claiming powers, or asking how to get them.
Nothing else.

I can actually see where you're coming from there after just a week or so on the board.

I heard some talk about a video to be made Friday, today is saturday, any news?

cheers

Next Friday...I just learned how to move the psi-wheel today, so I'll include that not just the bottle cap...

I've no wish to drag up an old (if only days old) argument, since they tend to die natural and appropriate deaths.

But just on that one, fairly minor, point, I was curious and so I asked RemieV (JREF research assistant who deals with Challenge applications) about the situation over on the JREF board via PM. She writes:


So, once more, Randi does sign, and has signed, Challenge applications, in a manner which again to my inexpert eye would constitute a legal contract.

Thank you, Nucular. That was a lot of work. I appreciate it. Now I know, and I stand corrected.

If it is not too much trouble, do you know why there is a preliminary test if the protocol for the final test has already been agreed to irrevocably and in every particular?

If no information pertinent to the specification of the protocol is to be gained from the preliminary test, then why bother? Alternatively, why not just state that an element of every protocol will be that the feat must be accomplished twice, possibly before different audiences?

It's a pleasure - though it actually wasn't any work, other than a couple of PMs back and forth


Rule 6 of the Challenge Rules states:


I suspect there are other reasons too. For instance, although all protocol issues and criteria for success are bashed out prior to signing, the two tests can involve different criteria for success (the formal test being stricter), or run for different lengths of time; and so the preliminary test will constitute an 'easy' version for the applicant. I think perhaps the most important function of the two-stage testing would be to rule out flukes, especially in those cases for which the testing of the claim requires an agreed level of statistical significance. Probably also, if anybody did pass the preliminary round (which according to the JREF nobody has), it would attract far more media attention for the formal trial, something we both agree the JREF is concerned with.

Actually a true skeptic would be an Agnostic. You cannot prove, or disprove the existence of God.

Fair enough, Nucular, thank you.

Depends on what your skeptical about... As for the super space daddy I base my conclusion on the evidence and since there is none at all to support this idea I can only conclude that such a being does not exist.

I'm not trying to get this thread off subject. But has there been any evidence to disprove the "super space daddy"? No, and I don't think we will ever be able to prove or disprove 'him' until he himself comes down from the Heavens, or we die and find out that way. Thus, something that is not proved, or disproved, you're only option is to "sit on the fence" aka Agnosticism.

Let me share a story that happened some 40 odd years ago. When I was in the service, one evening there were a few of us guys sitting around a table BS'ing. I was shuffling a deck of cards when I thought of a paticular card, I turned the top card over and it was the card I was thinking about. I told the guys "I think I can tell each card before I turn it over." That got everyone's attention so I started calling cards and turning them over. I got every one of them right for about half the deck of cards. I put the cards down and everyone wanted to know how I done that. I don't know how I did it and I haven't been able to do it since. You can bet your sweet A** If I could do it now and every time I tried it, I would be filling out a JREF form right now and collecting my $1,000,000.00

So I do believe there are some paranormal things that do happen. But I also believe that some things are downright trickery and frauds.

I just wanted to get my two cents in.

Thanks...Odie