I have been hearing alot of people saying thye can move a psi-wheel. I don't doubt these reports at all, but a ton of the skeptics here do disbelieve these reports..And, so you don't trick yourself (As I do admit some things can falsely make it move)


*THIS IS NOT A HOW TO DO TELEKINESIS POST. THIS IS MEANT TO HELP PEOPLE HAVE THE PROPER SET UP, IF YOU WAN'T TIPS ON TK ITSELF, THEN PM ME*



1. Get or make a psi-wheel, for a good how-to make a psi wheel article click here...
Psi wheel
It's near the middle in the page, it's a picture... *Make it balanced, helps alot*



2. Close all air vents, windows, anywhere air could escape to push the wheel...



3. Let the psi-wheel stand idle for a little bit, just to make sure it doesn't move when you're not trying...


4. Now, stand a good distance away, where body heat won't cause it to move...

Or, just put the wheel under a jar, and put ice packs in with the jar...


Ok, thats about all you need to know about how to make a proper set up for a psi-wheel...


If you want questions bout how to move it either PM me or if you have a quick question just post here...

H, it's temperature difference that is the concern. Under what conditions would ice packs be helpful, in your view?

Exactly! A temperature difference is one of the main reasons it spins.

It's convection that makes it spin...If you have problems with heta in the jar, add ice packs, to regulatre the tempratures

How do you think that will regulate the temperature?

It will bring the temprature down, causing the convection not to occur...If the airs cold it won't do anything...
Since cold air sinks, it won't spin the wheel because the ice packs will be below the wheel...As long as you don't tape the ice to the top of the jar you should be good...

Yes but it will push air that's warmer upwards. I think just a jar is good because the heat from your hands will not go through it too much.

Ice packs do not regulate the temperature but it will create an air current. Because all the air around the ice packs is warmer and pushing against the cold it creates movement... Think of how a massive storm that spawns a tornado forms... hot air clashing with cold air etc.



Cold air just won't sit in the jar as you claim and heres why.

Because the surrounding air is warmer it will heat the glass, melt the ice packs etc... unless the room is far below 0 what you describe simply cannot work.

If air was visible it would appear to be fluid like in nature, even inside of a jar. When you add ice packs you have cold air pushing against warm air and you create air currents.



I can make a psi wheel spin under a jar just using the heat from my hands.

It's just wrong physics, H.

You can't explain the supernatural 'til you've got some idea of how the natural works.

I'm glad some of you took the time to explain why Hearts experiment is flawed.

Heart! Putting ice cubes in a jar with your psi/pinwheel experiment will cause it to act more like a generator.

1. Ice in the jar, meaning theres going to be colder air at the bottom.

2. The colder air around the ice packs will push against the warmer air around the jar, therefore creating air currents.



Regards,
Tom

Kudos for trying though, Heartagram – I think there should be more of this self-testing approach before people post about their various powers. People will always fool themselves, protocol or no protocol, but this approach will help those who genuinely don’t want to.

However, as well as the above criticisms of your proposed protocol, another would be that it could still consist of simply sitting and waiting for the wheel to move, which it eventually will. There are no time-limits, and we will never completely eliminate air currents and temperature changes.

In order to tell the difference between random movement and movement caused by ‘psi’, therefore, I think building in some sort of randomisation and control conditions would be a useful thing. The nature of these would depend on what the general opinion is on what would be reasonable to expect of someone who can affect a psi-wheel.

For instance, do you think it would be reasonable to expect that somebody could alternately spin a wheel, stop, then spin it again, several times over within a short space of time? This could help to ascertain that it really is the person affecting the wheel, and do away with the need for perfect temperature control and so forth. Randomised ‘on/off’ trials, maybe determined by the roll of a dice or whatever, of various lengths, would be a good way to do this.

Another idea might be to factor in some blinding, which again would depend on what’s reasonable to expect of a psi-wheel spinner.

How reliable is the ‘ability’? What kind of a ‘hit-rate’ might we expect for a ‘spin… stop…. Spin again’ type of test?

Yea, but the way to make sure you are really moving it..Is to try and spin it, make it stop, and spin the other way...Simple...

Again, with no time limits, randomisation or predetermined goal, it's not going to stop people tricking themselves, as you stated was your intention.

If the ability is that reliable, start by doing exactly what you said in your last post, but just make sure that you've decided beforehand on your parameters and criteria for success or failure. For instance, assuming you're just doing it unblinded, just for yourself, make it spin for one minute, then stop; then make it spin the other way for one minute, then stop; then make it spin alternate directions as many times as you can in a minute, then stop.

If you achieve this in a way that others would accept, you may well be onto something, and you could try again for longer and with some kind of randomisation built in - for instance, determining for alternate minutes whether to spin it or not with a coin flip. If the first thing doesn't work in the first place, either the power is not particularly predictable, and will therefore be more difficult to test, or you don't have a power.

I'm not trying to make it needlessly complicated, it's just that common flaws in psi experiments include a lack of time limits, which means that we can start any time something seems to be happening, and finish whenever it stops happening; and a lack of randomisation, which means you get to choose what to do in the moment and thereby retain the possibility of post hoc justification for random movements. These flaws aren't going to help you not kid yourself.

I just don't think that the pin wheel can ever be a full proof tool to measure this ability if it exists. There is only one way to full proof it and that would be to put it into a vacuum chamber and eliminate not only any possible air flow but friction caused by the air itself on the wheel making it even more sensitive.

However if such an ability did or does exist it would yes be a potentially useful tool to practice with due to it's sensitivity.

AG, I see what you're saying, but I do think with a careful setup we could distinguish between random air currents and genuine psi without the need for a vacuum chamber or other high technology.

At the simplest level, being able to stop it and start it at the command of another could help to make that distinction (though of course we'd need to go further than that).

The pinwheel will always move with random air currents, this much is true: but if we could display nonrandom movement, there would be no need for cryonic vacuum chambers and the like.

I heard that the easiest thing to move with the mind is a candle flame.

I can make the wheel move on command and even change it's direction... It's not random but nothing special is really going on. Using a vacuum chamber is greta because it eliminates all the other variables that could move the wheel except 'psi'.

Also a vacuum chamber is not high technology and can be made at home.

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe heat could still have an effect, though far diminished, in a vacuum chamber.

But remember, we're not talking about detecting trickery here, we're talking about people being able to decide whether they're tricking themselves or not.

And of course reasonable precautions to reduce as far as possible any other sources of movement don't go amiss, since the random movement is 'noise' anyway in any setup.

But overall, as a way to test one's self, I think we can dispense with paraphernalia and simply use experimental techniques and controls to rule out other possibilities.

i think that if thats true (it does make sense) its logic, you see something like a flame to be light and easy to move so you can move it, i wonder if you got yourself to believe the same way under different circumstances eg with a bigger heavier object.

Not really.

Home food storage systems vary greatly in their specified "vacuum," some as little as 1 cm of mercury. Actual results differ from specifications because of equipment maintenance issues and operator errors. Even if all went well, specifications only describe the partial vacuum at the time of disconnection from the apparatus.

The seals on the evacuated package are notoriously fragile, especially on the larger "jar" type container that would be needed for this application. The seals are only designed for minimal mechanical stress anyway (the intended application is mostly to store material undisturbed), but considerable handling is involved in the proposed application.

Bearing in mind that the device we are discussing is an anemometer, there is no reason to believe that it would fail to detect air currents at pressures typical of the high atmosphere.

As with every other aspect of the "psi wheel," amateur vacuum sealing is simply an invitation to fraud and self-deception. Except for the comic book "framing story," seeing an anemometer spinning in a partial vacuum would be drop-dead evidence of just how partial the alleged "vacuum" is.

In other threads, other people and I have proposed inherently robust setups which require as little energy as moving an anemometer. Beating an inherently flawed apparatus to death, particularly by introducing yet another unreliable piece of equipment into the setup, is absurd.

Why would you use freezer parts to make a vacuum chamber? If someone knows what they are doing which isn't that complicated you can make an incredibly reliable vacuum chamber to put the psi wheel into. You simply don't give people enough credit and assume that they will all f*ck it up.

Anemometers are great but they are still limited for example I doubt you would find one for under 2 grand that could detect say .01 m/s.

The use of food storage containers was suggested recently in a related thread on this block:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...t&p=2169838


I didn't assume any such thing. I mistook what you were saying. A decent person in your position would apologize and retract.

I'm not talking about using jars or bowls I'm talking about using small pieces of plexiglass, rubber seals and so on.

I do retract that comment because we were thinking of 2 different things.

Your refusal to apologize for a personal attack, even as you retract it, speaks volumes about your character.

No I just don't have any remorse, it was a misunderstanding thats all. I will retract my statement and that's good enough take it or leave it.

I wish to say that you are the one who complained about people who attacked you and not the post. And so if you can say such things to him you should not be the one complaining about people who attacked you on the fourms. And please do not deny it. You did complain about people who atacked you, so if you know that you do not like it, you should also know better than to do such things. Even if he does not take your retraction, it won't cost him anything.

What I said I personally wouldn't view as an attack so much as a misinterpretation. Because we were thinking of 2 completely different things I did retract the statement I made which was

"You simply don't give people enough credit and assume that they will all f*ck it up."

Which was taken out of context from my post which was.

"Why would you use freezer parts to make a vacuum chamber? If someone knows what they are doing which isn't that complicated you can make an incredibly reliable vacuum chamber to put the psi wheel into. You simply don't give people enough credit and assume that they will all f*ck it up."

And this was in response to his post which was.

"As with every other aspect of the "psi wheel," amateur vacuum sealing is simply an invitation to fraud and self-deception. Except for the comic book "framing story," seeing an anemometer spinning in a partial vacuum would be drop-dead evidence of just how partial the alleged "vacuum" is.

In other threads, other people and I have proposed inherently robust setups which require as little energy as moving an anemometer. Beating an inherently flawed apparatus to death, particularly by introducing yet another unreliable piece of equipment into the setup, is absurd."

My post wasn't so much an attack as it was a defense for possible would be builders of a small and easy to make vacuum chamber.

So like I said I will retract my statement which was not meant to be an attack because it was a misunderstanding. This being said I will not apologize just because I'm told too.

In the other thread you reference in which I did complain I never once got an apology nor did I ask for one.... I just merely asked for it to stop several times before this actually happened... To be specific as to which member it was throwing out several personal attacks and accusations it was eight bits.

You misstate the record. It is not the first time you have done so, nor am I your only target.

One difference between us, AtheistGod, is that I will not call you a liar.

I am not misstating anything thats exactly what did happen. I also at no point ever called you a liar or any other name for that matter... That is reserved for people who graze through making claims of super powers.

Whatever.

Exactly