How can this knowledge have been lost in our history?
Full Version: Impossible battery power from ancient times
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Far out man!
Very, very intriguing. Forgetfulness is in humanity's nature.
Imagine where we'd be now if they had used them more all those centuries ago!
really old ancient power source, is that how they build the pyramids?
Here's a pic from a book I have.
This knowledge was lost for the simple reason that they really couldn't do anything with it.. There was no use for it in the olden days. The Inca discovered the wheel, but in the land they lived in, it was close to useless as anything other than a children's toy. Remember, it is the accumulation of data that allows us to develop the inventions that we have now. Without the knowledge of conductivity, resistance, and fine production, a battery is essentially little more than a party trick. Of course, it was an extremely effective trick if you're a priest trying to convince your meal ticket of mysterious powers, but as a science, it was on the same level as the little noisemakers you get in party goody-bags.
If, however, you want to make an interesting comparison, the Ark of the Covenant shares many similarities with this battery, except that its size would make it close to lethal.
If, however, you want to make an interesting comparison, the Ark of the Covenant shares many similarities with this battery, except that its size would make it close to lethal.
You think thats amazing? Check out Vimanas and ancient india
I read that they might have used it to electroplate statues with gold. In the 1970's a German scientist built a replica of the battery and charged it with freshly squeezed grape juice. Then he used the current from the battery to electroplate a statuette with gold.
That is fascinating!!! I watched a documentary on the History channel thats main focus was Ancient Egyptan technology. They had showed wall pictures having some sort of device that looked to be a light bulb. Is it possible that they could have had that knowledge? I think now, yes! How could of all those skills been lost by them?
If you check your history you'll find many things have been rediscovered. The Greeks knew how to make cement and that technology was lost ,like many others, during the dark ages.
On the hill where the acropolis of Ancient Kamiros is located, on the island of Rhodes, next to the temple dedicated to the goddess Athena Kamiras, there is an ancient cistern which has a capacity of approximately 600 cubic meters. This cistern, whose construction is considered to have taken place around 900 B.C., is constructed of a substance that is hard, impermeable and waterproof.
Cement was rediscovered in England in the 19th century. We lose technology through war, famine and pestilence. There are few who hold the key to large amounts of technology. How many of you can make a sweater if I gave you a clump of wool? Or build a simple radio? Technology is fragile, learn it or lose it!
On the hill where the acropolis of Ancient Kamiros is located, on the island of Rhodes, next to the temple dedicated to the goddess Athena Kamiras, there is an ancient cistern which has a capacity of approximately 600 cubic meters. This cistern, whose construction is considered to have taken place around 900 B.C., is constructed of a substance that is hard, impermeable and waterproof.
Cement was rediscovered in England in the 19th century. We lose technology through war, famine and pestilence. There are few who hold the key to large amounts of technology. How many of you can make a sweater if I gave you a clump of wool? Or build a simple radio? Technology is fragile, learn it or lose it!
The ruines of a city in india or wherever it is that is flooded with radiation (which some believe was nuked 10 000 years ago) actually has a plumbing system more advanced than that in Pakistan now.
| QUOTE (imorningsun @ May 26 2004, 05:20 AM) |
| That is fascinating!!! I watched a documentary on the History channel thats main focus was Ancient Egyptan technology. They had showed wall pictures having some sort of device that looked to be a light bulb. Is it possible that they could have had that knowledge? I think now, yes! How could of all those skills been lost by them? |
Careful now! It's one thing to stumble on to electricity (heck, I discovered it as a tyke zapping myself everytime I got out of the car). It's another thing entirely to say that a round carving radiating light is a lightbulb (seriously, what shape is the biggest lightmaker in the sky?). You make a simple assumption that this might be a lightbulb, then back it up with the discovery of what might be a battery, yet you skip over the fine metallurgy, glass shaping, and general understading of electrical theory and resistance required to make a lightbulb. That's a pretty big jump for an assumption that a round thing is a lightbulb instead of the sun.
Incidentally, while I did hear that someone did manage to electroplate a statue with primitive items (reminds me of the professor, on Gilligan's Island), I also remember a study of the Egyptian artifacts which showed under a microscope the mallet markings of the foil lamination process.
The Egyptians do seem to have invented a primitive battery. That is fantastic in and of itself. There is really no need to assume they had an entire electrical system and powered tools as well.
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| That is fascinating!!! I watched a documentary on the History channel thats main focus was Ancient Egyptan technology. They had showed wall pictures having some sort of device that looked to be a light bulb. Is it possible that they could have had that knowledge? I think now, yes! How could of all those skills been lost by them? |
Is this what you are refering?
If you think this is amazing, look at this:
The Antikythera mechanism is an ancient artifact believed to be an early clockwork mechanism. It was discovered in a shipwreck off the Greek island of Antikythera, between Kythera and Crete, and has been dated to about 87 BC.
The wreck was discovered in 1900 at a depth of about 40m (140 feet), and many statues and other works were retrieved from it by sponge divers. On May 17, 1902 archaeologist Spyridon Stais noticed that one of the pieces of rock had a gear wheel embedded in it.
The mechanism is the oldest known surviving geared mechanism, made from bronze in a wooden frame, and has puzzled and intrigued historians of science and technology since its discovery. The most commonly accepted theory of its function is that it was an analog computer designed to track the movements of heavenly objects. Recent working reconstructions of the device support this analysis. The device is all the more impressive for its use of a differential gear, which was previously believed to have been invented in the 13th century AD.
The late Professor Derek De Solla Price, a science historian working at Yale University, published an article on the mechanism in Scientific American in June 1959 while the device was still only partially inspected. In 1973 or 1974 he published an analysis based on gamma ray imaging by Greek archaeologists. He claimed that the device had been built by a Greek astronomer, Geminus of Rhodes. His conclusion was not accepted by experts at the time, who believed that the Ancient Greeks had the theoretical knowledge but not the necessary practical skills.
A partial reconstruction was built by Australian computer scientist Allan George Bromley (1947-2002) of the University of Sydney and Sydney clockmaker Frank Percival. This project led Bromley to review Price's X-ray analysis and to make new, more accurate X-ray images that were studied by Bromley's student, Bernard Gardner, in 1993.
Later, a British orrery maker named John Gleave constructed a working replica of the mechanism. According to his reconstruction, the front dial shows the annual progress of the Sun and Moon through the zodiac against the Egyptian calendar. The upper rear dial displays a four-year period and has associated dials showing the Metonic cycle of 235 synodic months, which equals 19 solar years. A synodic month is the period between two new moons. The lower rear dial plots the cycle of a single synodic month, with a secondary dial showing the lunar year of 12 synodic months.
Another reconstruction was made in 2002 by Michael Wright, mechanical engineering curator for the Science Museum in London, working with Bernard Gardner of Sydney.
The original mechanism is kept in the National Archaeological Museum in Athens.
The Antikythera mechanism is an ancient artifact believed to be an early clockwork mechanism. It was discovered in a shipwreck off the Greek island of Antikythera, between Kythera and Crete, and has been dated to about 87 BC.
The wreck was discovered in 1900 at a depth of about 40m (140 feet), and many statues and other works were retrieved from it by sponge divers. On May 17, 1902 archaeologist Spyridon Stais noticed that one of the pieces of rock had a gear wheel embedded in it.
The mechanism is the oldest known surviving geared mechanism, made from bronze in a wooden frame, and has puzzled and intrigued historians of science and technology since its discovery. The most commonly accepted theory of its function is that it was an analog computer designed to track the movements of heavenly objects. Recent working reconstructions of the device support this analysis. The device is all the more impressive for its use of a differential gear, which was previously believed to have been invented in the 13th century AD.
The late Professor Derek De Solla Price, a science historian working at Yale University, published an article on the mechanism in Scientific American in June 1959 while the device was still only partially inspected. In 1973 or 1974 he published an analysis based on gamma ray imaging by Greek archaeologists. He claimed that the device had been built by a Greek astronomer, Geminus of Rhodes. His conclusion was not accepted by experts at the time, who believed that the Ancient Greeks had the theoretical knowledge but not the necessary practical skills.
A partial reconstruction was built by Australian computer scientist Allan George Bromley (1947-2002) of the University of Sydney and Sydney clockmaker Frank Percival. This project led Bromley to review Price's X-ray analysis and to make new, more accurate X-ray images that were studied by Bromley's student, Bernard Gardner, in 1993.
Later, a British orrery maker named John Gleave constructed a working replica of the mechanism. According to his reconstruction, the front dial shows the annual progress of the Sun and Moon through the zodiac against the Egyptian calendar. The upper rear dial displays a four-year period and has associated dials showing the Metonic cycle of 235 synodic months, which equals 19 solar years. A synodic month is the period between two new moons. The lower rear dial plots the cycle of a single synodic month, with a secondary dial showing the lunar year of 12 synodic months.
Another reconstruction was made in 2002 by Michael Wright, mechanical engineering curator for the Science Museum in London, working with Bernard Gardner of Sydney.
The original mechanism is kept in the National Archaeological Museum in Athens.
The whole problem with believing in the "lost technologies" scenario is that you can get yourself into hot water with the establishment and the skeptics, so far as proof of these things goes. Even though it's encumbent on those who say these technologies existed, to prove this, it's also encumbent on those that say they didn't to also prove their position. It's easy to dismiss something on the basis of accepted "facts", but in dismissing those ideas etc, it doesn't prove that what they accept as fact is what actually happened.
It's all a matter of opinion......some see a religious or other cultural conotations in what they find.....based on the idea of society progressing to higher levels through time.....whilst others see lost ideas and technologies.
Just because someone states that something is impossible, based on the "facts", doesn't mean that it was. Quoting "facts" doesn't make you right about your notions of history (or anything else) unless you have solid proof to back you up. Even then, you may still be in error. In the case of archaeology and history this is very much so.
It's all a matter of opinion......some see a religious or other cultural conotations in what they find.....based on the idea of society progressing to higher levels through time.....whilst others see lost ideas and technologies.
Just because someone states that something is impossible, based on the "facts", doesn't mean that it was. Quoting "facts" doesn't make you right about your notions of history (or anything else) unless you have solid proof to back you up. Even then, you may still be in error. In the case of archaeology and history this is very much so.
| QUOTE |
| Just because someone states that something is impossible, based on the "facts", doesn't mean that it was. Quoting "facts" doesn't make you right about your notions of history (or anything else) unless you have solid proof to back you up. Even then, you may still be in error. In the case of archaeology and history this is very much so. |
Exactly Ozmeister!!! No one can stand up and claim such an absolute as "impossible" when these mysteries are examined. There are just as many hidden treasures in the sands of the desert than in any ocean depth.
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| .....Ark of the Covenant shares many similarities with this battery, except that its size would make it close to lethal |
Speaking of which, a group of students back in the early 70's-80's decided to build a scale model of the Ark based on what was told of its construction in the Bible. They had to destroy it because it was giving off massive sparks of electricity.....for memory I think it was something like 1000 volts or so that it generated. Turns out the Ark was in fact a galvanic battery of enormus power. It's probably the reason why only certain people were allowed to view the Ark back in ancient Israel.....only the high priests were equipped with the necessary knowledge and protection to handle it.
So far as the Antikythera Device is concerned, the gears in the original device were helical gears. Apart from a comprehensive knowledge of conic section and ratios being needed, you need a machine lathe to cut helical gears. It's exceptionally difficult to cut these gears by hand (almost impossible) accurately enough for them to mesh properly.
Here's another lost idea........Thomas Crapper "invented" the flush toilet in the 1840's.......wrong. The Minoans had flush toilets and a proper piped drainage system 3000 years before Crapper even thought about it.
And another....impressions of cloth in limestone, that had been weaved by people living in Volny Dolzhenica (sp) in the Czech Republic was so finely weaved that it was almost as good as cloth made today. The cloth was dated to 26000BP.
The Ark was a Galvanic Battery? Could this be why the Philistines were said to have suffered a plague of sores when they took it in battle? Improper handling that led to burns maybe?
Precisely Falco.......when the Ark was paraded through the streets at any time, only certain people were allowed near it. They kept the general rabble back from where it was being paraded, for their safety. Those that did get too close or touched it were struck down.
i'm gonna run something by you guys and let ya run with it.
Many people now are starting to belive that the Ark was filled with Monatomic elements and this lead to its power.
Many people now are starting to belive that the Ark was filled with Monatomic elements and this lead to its power.
But how would it work? I thought that nobody has found a way to convert Monatomic Elements into a useful form? Maybe they have and I've been unaware of it. If you can explain how it might work I'll give my opinion on your theory..
Monatomic, as in they form native minerals as one atom and not in combination with more than one atom, as in Oxygen (O2) etc.
Well it did have gold (Au) Copper (Cu) and a few other elements which I can't remember off hand. In combination, they generated a large potential difference between the layers and thus the massive electrical charge that it carried.
Well it did have gold (Au) Copper (Cu) and a few other elements which I can't remember off hand. In combination, they generated a large potential difference between the layers and thus the massive electrical charge that it carried.
Monatomic Platnium elements more specifically.
It seems that the Monatomic Gold specifically is a room temperature super-conductor.
If you do a search on Sir Laurence Gardner or David Hudson is a good place to start.
Sir William Flinders Petrie scaled Mount Sinai in 1904 I believe, he found an egyptian temple up there, it appeared to be a factory of somekind. Anyways he found like 50tons of this fine,fine white powder. Seems that maybe the egyptians were able to take the monatomic gold that occurs naturally in nature and convert it back to its metallic form. This is why they had such an abundance of gold.
It seems that the Monatomic Gold specifically is a room temperature super-conductor.
If you do a search on Sir Laurence Gardner or David Hudson is a good place to start.
Sir William Flinders Petrie scaled Mount Sinai in 1904 I believe, he found an egyptian temple up there, it appeared to be a factory of somekind. Anyways he found like 50tons of this fine,fine white powder. Seems that maybe the egyptians were able to take the monatomic gold that occurs naturally in nature and convert it back to its metallic form. This is why they had such an abundance of gold.
Oh,I see what your saying now. I had heard that nobody today could convert Monatomic Elements to metallic form, although I'm no scientist and I may be wrong about that. If the ancients somehow could then superconductive Gold on the Ark makes sense to me.
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| Oh,I see what your saying now. I had heard that nobody today could convert Monatomic Elements to metallic form, |
Then you can see the problems this would convey to the Gold market.....we have to wonder why our countries horde their gold so much?
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| That is fascinating!!! I watched a documentary on the History channel thats main focus was Ancient Egyptan technology. They had showed wall pictures having some sort of device that looked to be a light bulb. Is it possible that they could have had that knowledge? I think now, yes! How could of all those skills been lost by them? |
I also heard on another documentry that NO carbon atoms have been found inside the pyrmids. When you light a fire your meant to have carbon atoms. The show came to the obivious conclusion that since you can't draw the hieroglyphs in the dark and since they didn't use fire, they used electric lightbulbs
Not sure where you got your info, but two things: There are scorch marks on the pathways in the pyramid. I've seen them. What I didn't see were hieroglyphics.
The gears on the Antythera machine were certainly difficult to make, but by no means impossible, nor did they require complex machine tools. The doctor that investigated the machine replicated the gears perfectly with nothing more than a vise and a nail file. Again, this was a marvelous machine that exemplified the best knowledge of its time and represented the fantastic achievements that these people had discovered. Frankly, it almost insulting to claim that there must have been even more advanced technology that must have been lost. It demeans the fantastic levels of knowledge they did in fact achieve.
I would like a source for the monoatomic elements statement. I find it hard to believe anyone with more than a passing knowledge of basic chemistry could proposed that. There is, after all, a reason why they are so rare.
The gears on the Antythera machine were certainly difficult to make, but by no means impossible, nor did they require complex machine tools. The doctor that investigated the machine replicated the gears perfectly with nothing more than a vise and a nail file. Again, this was a marvelous machine that exemplified the best knowledge of its time and represented the fantastic achievements that these people had discovered. Frankly, it almost insulting to claim that there must have been even more advanced technology that must have been lost. It demeans the fantastic levels of knowledge they did in fact achieve.
I would like a source for the monoatomic elements statement. I find it hard to believe anyone with more than a passing knowledge of basic chemistry could proposed that. There is, after all, a reason why they are so rare.
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| I would like a source for the monoatomic elements statement. I find it hard to believe anyone with more than a passing knowledge of basic chemistry could proposed that. There is, after all, a reason why they are so rare |
http://monatomic.earth.com/
http://www.inspiredliving.com/energy-medic...eguidelines.htm
http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0957-4484/15/7/055/
http://monatomic.earth.com/contributed/whi...der-primer.html
http://www.zz.com/WhiteGoldWeb/96053000.txt
http://www.halexandria.org/dward470.htm
http://graal.co.uk/whitepowdergold.html
Chauncy, I've never heared about this kind of elemnts...
and all the links you gave talks about spirits, parallal dimensions etc., not very convincing...
and all the links you gave talks about spirits, parallal dimensions etc., not very convincing...
I know what your saying dude!
I first heard of the monatomics in the Journal of Medicine, where they had put two monatomic atoms at the ends of a DNA strand which turned it into a super-conductor of sorts. I'm trying to find the article but I'm having problems locating it.
The idea of monatomics seems buried in our history, when a reference is made towards Alchemy then a lot of people get turned off, but never-the-less these Alchemists were our first scientists.
As I stated above I was going to lay something on here and lets run with it and see where it leads. If you would like to help we can each amass what info is available and see if we can come to some kind of conclusion.
I first heard of the monatomics in the Journal of Medicine, where they had put two monatomic atoms at the ends of a DNA strand which turned it into a super-conductor of sorts. I'm trying to find the article but I'm having problems locating it.
The idea of monatomics seems buried in our history, when a reference is made towards Alchemy then a lot of people get turned off, but never-the-less these Alchemists were our first scientists.
As I stated above I was going to lay something on here and lets run with it and see where it leads. If you would like to help we can each amass what info is available and see if we can come to some kind of conclusion.
I've read that while it's scientifically possible to refine metals from Monatomic Elements it's so expensive and difficult to do that the cost of refinement is much more than the value of the Metal you'll end up with.
Currently they seem to be searching for less cost prohibitive methods to do it..
Currently they seem to be searching for less cost prohibitive methods to do it..
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| Monatomic Elements it's so expensive and difficult to do that the cost of refinement is much more than the value of the Metal you'll end up with. |
The claim of David Hudson is that he may have another method that proves economical. This claim of course, as I stated before with Fort Knox, is pretty profound no doubt. The implications of harvesting monatomic gold from the environment then rendering it back to the metallic form would prove shattering to any economy based on gold.
Erikl mentioned the spiritual aspects that the proponents spout when dealing with this issue. As with any issue there is a lot of fluff, but inside that fluff is the core of the matter, and thats what we want. The link that sp23 left is pretty good as it contains quite a bit of information.
Also just because there is this metaphysical layer to the ingestion of these elements does not mean that the effects are not based in science, thats what we should find out. If the Ark has any co-relation to these elements specifically gold, then it would explain a lot of the seemingly magical events associated with the Ark and other events in our pre-history.
We always talk about lost history, forgotten technology, advanced civilizations, with a seemingly different technology than ours. I can't help but think these monatomic elements, indeed the understanding of their properties was the root of said technology.
Possibly, but then I'm still trying to find evidence that these things exists, let alone do everything that people claim they do.
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| The gears on the Antythera machine were certainly difficult to make, but by no means impossible, nor did they require complex machine tools. The doctor that investigated the machine replicated the gears perfectly with nothing more than a vise and a nail file. |
Aquatus....notice I said "almost impossible" to cut by hand......not that it was. The doctor in question cut rotary gears (circular ones) and not helical gears....although the machine could work with normal gears, just that you'd need more of them. I know what it's like to try and cut the teeth of gears with a file.....my father was an engineer and used to do things like this quite often, but he would never cut a helical gear by hand. They have to be machined because the tolerances that are needed in the shaping of the teeth and the gear itself are too fine to try and cut by hand. You could try, but I'd doubt you'd succeed.....you'd waste heaps of material trying to cut the gears and you wouldn't get the teeth cut accurately enough.
Luckily though, the gears of the machine were made of brass, which you could cut with an iron file...which was well within reason for the Greeks to have used. However to say they had no machine tools is a little off the mark. They did have wood lathes, and given some of the Greek engineer's ingenuity, it's not a great leap forward for them to have figured out how to make a steam driven metal lathe. Even if they only had one of its type, that's all they needed. Remember, they did have steam engines of a sort (one was used on the main doors of the library at Alexandria to open and close the doors). They also possessed the math to have figured out how to make a helical gear.
I've been nosing around trying to find current research on the monatomic elements issue.
One of the reasons I find there to be a link between events in our ancient and pre-history, is because of the properties that these elements have in their m-state, specifically the super-conductivity and the anti-gravitational aspects of such.
I read once that NASA has been working with m-state elements in their alternative propulsion labs, mind you as of yet I've to locate said reference, some help finding this evidence if it is indeed true would be most gracious of any interested parties.
There is a group called GTC The Future of Flight, that is pushing for more research to be done on this issue, not for the metaphysical aspect but for future use as a means of propulsion. http://www.gctspace.com/technology/description.html
One of the reasons I find there to be a link between events in our ancient and pre-history, is because of the properties that these elements have in their m-state, specifically the super-conductivity and the anti-gravitational aspects of such.
I read once that NASA has been working with m-state elements in their alternative propulsion labs, mind you as of yet I've to locate said reference, some help finding this evidence if it is indeed true would be most gracious of any interested parties.
There is a group called GTC The Future of Flight, that is pushing for more research to be done on this issue, not for the metaphysical aspect but for future use as a means of propulsion. http://www.gctspace.com/technology/description.html
I'm afraid that, after several hours of research, on the net, in the library, and with the professors at the university, I simply can find no source for "Monatomics", other than this rather shady, Kevin Hudson character. This article, from one of Chauncy's links, pretty much summarizes what I've found.
Deadly Panacea
The closest I was able to get was certain elements which were so reactive that they could not exists as single elements without combining with others, such as hydrogen (H) and Gold (Au). On the atomic level, this makes them handy for conductive purposes, since they can be easily linked with other elements. I have never heard of them being used in a medical manner.
However, returning to the original subject, it would be impossible for such a large quantity of these single atom elements to exist in any sort of 'powder" form without reacting to each other. Whatever this white powder is, it is not the monatomic elements familiar to chemists and physicists.
I personally cannot confer any credibility to its existence.
Deadly Panacea
The closest I was able to get was certain elements which were so reactive that they could not exists as single elements without combining with others, such as hydrogen (H) and Gold (Au). On the atomic level, this makes them handy for conductive purposes, since they can be easily linked with other elements. I have never heard of them being used in a medical manner.
However, returning to the original subject, it would be impossible for such a large quantity of these single atom elements to exist in any sort of 'powder" form without reacting to each other. Whatever this white powder is, it is not the monatomic elements familiar to chemists and physicists.
I personally cannot confer any credibility to its existence.
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