Apparently, from experiments done by various scientists, it not only seems that plants have feelings, emotions and consciousness, but they are also psychic and can read peoples mind and feel the energy of the mind of those around them.

Here is an article from wikipedia regarding this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_perception_(paranormal)

And here is a video about it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGRluepFwdg

From personally experience and experiments I have to agree and say this seem to be true, though I need to perform more experiments to completely verify it as I've only done a few.

I saw an episode of mythbusters that busted that. They tried hurting it or killing another plant in front of it and nothing happened. But I highly disagree with the way mythbusters work on the myths.

I cant find a link online sorry about that.

Wouldn't plants need brains to be psychic, have consciousness etc.?

I agree with dreamer. I think they would need a brain. Am I correct?

All they need is a soul.

not necasarily.
all kinds of living things have what we would consider a consiosness.
single cell organisims for example. or even multi cell organisems that exibit survival instinct.
just because plants are not mobile does not mean they dont feel.
in another episode of mythbusters they proved that plants like music, and it has an effect on the growth.
consiosnes can be defined as an awareness of ones suroundings.
but that is broken down to the absolute simplest.

with no brain and central nervous system, or any sensory orfaces, or other types of input, it is impossible for it to interact with the living world, and thinking otherwise, in my opinion, is just ludicrous. Why can't things just be what they are, instead of people trying to imbue certain spiritual or exrta-ordinary abilities or explanations?

I've long believed this to be true, that plants have a consciousness. This article I found a few years ago is quite interesting. It shows plants to be much more active then previously thought.

Plant Communication

What you believe and what the facts are regarding plant life are 2 different things.

Plants are just simply not capable of complex thought processes because they lack something we have, and that of course is a brain.



The goal of all life is to survive... A consciousness is not needed to succeed

Plants do not feel because they do not have brains or nerves like animal life does. Not all plants are stationary either.





Music effects plants not due to them having 'feelings'. There is a far more rational explanation and several theories as to why. I personally feel that it stimulates because the sounds cause cells to vibrate increasing the rate of cell division and chemical reactions associated with plant growth.



Communication via chemical stimulus does not mean they have a consciousness. When a plant is distressed it will release various chemicals into the air, some plants have evolved so that when they come into contact with these chemicals the react by also producing chemicals and take other defensive measures etc.

Plant communication is indirect and non-intentional unlike communication between say humans and other animals.

A mournfull cry when not being watered? That's... well horrific if true. But I really doubt plants are capible of being psychic.

They have an aura, so they ARE living beings like us...

No one doubts that plants are life forms... As for auras there is some validity to such claims although there is a rational explanation... All life forms have a emit small magnetic fields, heat and other forms of radiation... Non life forms also emit such radiations as well.

Plants however do not think or have a consciousness in anyway... They simply involuntarily react to what happens around them.

Well the interesting thing is that the experiment is rather easy to replicate so anyone who want to find out if it's true or not just need to get one of those polygraphs, hook it up and see what they get.

Apparently, the evidence presented in above links show that there is something going on, and personally I don't see why a plant should not be able to be conscious just because it does not have a brain, it is a completely different lifeform than human and animals or insects etc.

A brain might be needed for more complex tasks such as calculating things, moving around, and in other way control the physical body which they are in.

That's just something I thought of quickly though so I may be wrong.

But, I did hear about an interesting experiment that was done by the same scientist, Backster, which involved an astronaut. I can't remember the name of the astronaut, but apparently they took some of his dna or cells or something like that and put it in a laboratory and hooked it up with instruments, I suppose it was some polygraph similar thing in this test as well, and then the astronaut was told to take notes of every time something stressful happened during his day. And the results were monitored at a location completely different from wherever he was during the day, and he took notes when things happened, and it showed up that the DNA or cells or whatever part of him they had in the lab showed signs of stress at exactly the same times.

I don't have more information about this right now but maybe someone else can find something about it, I first heard about that as well as the plants in my original post above in a video interview with David Wilcock at http://www.projectcamelot.org/david_wilcock.html - I think it was in part 3 or 4 of the Road to Ascension interview (links are on the page to streaming video at google and youtube)

Pretty interesting interview btw, worth checking out, goes into all kind of things

How do you figure Cleve Backster is a scientist?

http://skepdic.com/plants.html

Dr. Backster claims to have a D.Sc. in Complementary Medicine from Medicina Alternativa (1996). He has parlayed his doctorate into a position at the California Institute for Human Science Graduate School and Research Center, an unaccredited institution founded by Dr. Hiroshi Motoyama for the study of "the human being as tridimensional." Dr. Motoyama is said to be a scientist and Shinto priest who "has awakened to states of consciousness that enable him to see beyond the limits of space and time."

Anyone who performs experiments and research in a scientific way is an scientist to me, and as far I can see his research and work has been scientific. Even if that would make him a "hobby scientist". I don't know anything about his background nor does that really matter if he can provide evidence for his claims, something he apparently have done.

plants may not have brains but they have roots, where are yours???// we all come in different forms you know! we are just other animals taking up our large patch on the earth, open your soul and your brain may take in the effect!

regards
spirit x

Fair answer, but the mantras of the local k-team are not the typical standards of science, professional or hobbyist.

It is not so much that one provides any old evidence for one's claims as evidence that stands up to scrutiny, including that of professional scientists. Cleve fell short.

You're right, though. If he had delivered, it wouldn't have mattered whether he had any education at all. And given that he didn't deliver, a Nobel prize wouldn't help. If you don't believe that, ask Albert next time you're up in astral land how things worked out with the "God doesn't play dice..." thing.

In fairness to our k-olleagues, probably the reason they ask for any evidence is that so often they get none. Maybe they just don't think to ask for more.

I totally agree...

I don't have any roots because I'm not a plant...



You don't see why but I do only because plants are my specialty.

As I said before plants simply react to their situation, plants react in an almost autonomous manner there is no thought involved at all. They do not 'think' about their situation or their surrounding environment they just react.

If anyone here besides me has ever looked at plant biology/chemistry it becomes clear that they are simply not capable of having a consciousness. Plants are not wired for it and they don't need to be, they have evolved to survive w/o a consciousness.

Many of you of course will refuse to accept what to me is an obvious fact but it's true.

The question is an interesting one, although most of what is interesting about it lies outside of the scope of science. There is no definition of "consciousness" that is both objective and widely held. Therefore, there is no definitive "test" for consciousness as such, and the proposition X is conscious is unfalsifiable, to use Popper's term for the difficulty.

An example of a large, currently active group of scientists and engineers who entertain the possibility of consciousness apart from a mammalian brain is the so-called "strong" community in artificial intelligence.

Some of them believe that restricting consciousness to brains is a holdover of the "vitalist" fallacy, which itself was an aspect of the larger "humans are the crown of creation" fantasy. All of them (by definition of "strong" AI, a term coined or popularized by John Searle) believe that an inanimate object, for example a silicon wafer, is capable of consciousness.

If that is so, then there would be no obvious basis to exclude that other living things besides mammals have consciousness. The qualia of their consciousness might be very different from our own, however, which further complicates the task of specifying a "test."

It is instructive to compare the scholarship of authentic scientists and engineers, such as those in the strong AI community, with the antics of fakers like Cleve Backster. For example, real scholars do not hook up sandboxes to polygraphs and pitch the noise thus recorded as the stirrings of "siliconsciousness."

True...The definition of a scientist is someone that solves problems baisically...

Not necessarily problems but just how things work... For example as a botanist I figure out how plants work.

Well I don't know what your personal beliefs or experiences are, but I know we have a consciousness that can exist outside of the physical body, and even without the physical body, and if that is possible, I don't see why a plant can't have consciousness as well.

For me this is a proven and established fact from personal experiments and practice for many years, as well as done in group with friends and other people, where there has been performed tests that show without any doubt that this is true, that our mind/consciousness can exist separated from our bodies and be in completely different locations and are pretty much limitless by time and space. Our physical bodies seem to be a more mechanical type of vehicle or machinery to be able to interact and do things here in the physical world, why it is like that, or how it got to be like that I don't know though I have some theories that seems probable for me but that's a whole other discussion.

And this led me to an interesting thought, if I ever remember it when I have the time I'll try astral project myself into a plant and see what that's like Could be interesting.

Back so soon? Good trip, I hope.


Wouldn't that be unethical, if it has a consciousness and all?

Besides, how's Eric going to feel? You have no time to visit him in the astral, but do have time to ravish shrubbery? He won't like it at all.

Eric, I mean; I don't know about the plant.

Before you run off to some far away land can you please tell us what personal experiences you have witnessed and what experiments you have run? Surely they must be something great and wondrous if one was to conclude plants have consciousness or feelings.



One thing are, surprisingly, not questioning is why the heck would anyone attach a polygraph machine to a plant in order to figure out if it is conscious. A polygraph machine is used to measure 4 things when used on a person. Respiration, Blood Pressure, Pulse Rate and Galvanic Skin Response. If you do not understand any of them please go look them up.

A plant has no respiration and no pulse rate so neither of these two things can be measured by the polygraph. A plant has no blood pressure, of course, but I can sort of see where pressure within the confines of a plants structure could be increased or decreased. So this is perhaps measurable but not something as dynamic as a humans BP. Then we come to GSR. This is the only one I see being able to be used on a plant really. For example a plant gives off a chemical during one of the automatic responses Atheistgod mentioned and this could easily change the resistance in the area the polygraph is attached to.

What I am getting at is dont you think a polygraph machine is the wrong type of equipment to measure consciousness of a plant? Yet everything that I have read banks on this one little fact. Hooking a polygraph up to a plant, somehow, results in some sort of recorded "response" when something is done to the plant. How very scientific. Why can't this "response" just be an automatic one from the plant and not some sort of consciousness or emotion?

Also why would a plant develop telepathy or the ability to read some animals thoughts? It serves no purpose other than stressing out the plant. The plant can not move away, the plant can not attack (most can not) the plant can not do anything but sit there and get eaten/harmed. What purpose would reading the thoughts of the animal that is about to eat going to do for you? It makes no sense.

It all makes no sense. Consciousness, emotion, telepathy and the like serves no purpose in the life of a plant. I dont see these things developing because they are not needed. Jerry rigging some piece of equipment to get some results makes no sense either.





Dont worry Darkbreed, I will save you the trouble. You will AP into the plant and discover exactly what you were expecting. You already believe what you believe and any further experiments you supposedly run will just serve to reinforce, justify or prove your current beliefs.



Ravish shrubbery......lol....good one.....

Kevin A.

I already explained why I do not carry out requests to visit people astrally several times to several people here whom have asked me about it so just read around some and you'll find the answer.

Regarding the plant, I find that a much more interesting and probably easier thing to do than to astrally visit some guy I dont know who lives on other side of the planet, the plant I can have right next to me so all I need to do is get out of body, then try get into the plant, or even try get any connection with the plant from that point.

It will not be now though as I don't have time for that, it's not like I can just slap my heels together and voila out I am. So the times I am out, I prefer using that time for something interesting and what I find useful for myself, I've already met other people astrally who confirmed it so that part is already done for me. I like higher planes and exploring the cosmos more.

Regarding what experiments I've done, it includes both having other people astral project to me and describe me and my place and things they would have to read my mind to even know, as well as me traveling to other people, once to two different people at the same time whom lived at two different locations and both reported back the same experience to me. Other experiments includes having someone put a random card from a deck of cards on a table in another room and then project into it , look at the card, get back and report the sight and get it verified to be correct- this was also successfully replicated by a friend of mine where we did the same thing except he was doing the projection and we (the group of friends who experimented together) put the card in another room.

Also I've been out projecting together with other people to other dimensions, and on return back the people involved reported the same experience.

Other things include projecting out of body, going to a location outside that is not possible to view from any part of the apartment I lived in at the time, to see what happened there, things that were there, people, cars, objects etc, and then go back and go out physically to find out it was indeed as I had seen.

Even some telekinetic experiments were performed successfully, though it was hard, through astral projection. This included putting very light and small objects on the surface of a table close to the edge and make them fall down while projecting, and then go back to the physical body to verify that they had indeed fallen down from the table.

Many other and similar experiments have been done both alone and with other people so for me and those involved there is no doubt at all about the reality of astral projection.

Since then, I stopped doing those experiments as I had gotten the verification I needed, and now focus more on higher realms and astral beings, spirit guides, traveling through time and space and other astral planes which I find incredible fascinating and amazing and very useful as you can learn a lot about yourself and existence and the universe etc this way.

With remote viewing, which is in some ways related and similar to astral projecton but on a lower level, I've also had successful results from experiments, where I was just given a random 8 digit number which was a reference number for the target, and all I knew about the target was the number. I tried 3 different ones, and all 3 were more or less successful, meaning that what I reported back was consistent with the target - for example one target was niagara falls, I reported back water, loud thundering sounds, lot of energy, and drew a sketch of what seemed like rivers, and from satellite photos I checked later it looked pretty much like the sketch. The other target was the washington monument, and I reported back something made of stone, human made, pyramid shaped, a big blue square in front of it and lots of green around among other things, and when I heard what the target was I checked some photos of it (I didnt even know what the washington monument was so I had to look it up) and it was just like I had sensed, the blue square in front being the water pond, and the green the trees etc around, and the pyramid shape the top of the monument, and of course its made of stone and human made.

The difference is that remote viewing is more subtle when it comes to the perceptions, it is often hard to directly say what the target is, but it's easier to say things related to the target such as smells, feelings and sensations, sounds, colors, shapes etc, and make a sketch of it at the end, and then once you get the target revealed you're often surprised of how close you were even though you didn't actually know or name the target, but the descriptions fits

With Astral projection, it is harder to go out and find targets like that, or to project to other people, but the good thing is that with astral projection it is normal sight so you see what you see just as you would when physically awake and at the scene you project to, so you can go back and report exactly what you saw.

I'm sure remote viewing can be more specific with details too like astral projection, but I have not experimented much with RV, thus one of the reasons I've offered to do an RV experiment here when I'm back and have gotten prepared and have the time to do so.

With the above said, I also was involved in a car accident that buggered up my neck and back so I'm constantly tensed and with pain and often need to take medication for this, which unfortunately make it harder for me to project these days than before, and these days most of my astral projections happens spontaneously rather than by trying it, meaning I just suddenly "wake up" outside my body, or rather in my astral body, in other astral worlds and places in space etc.

This is also one of the reasons I'm looking more into remote viewing these days as I had good success with it and it seems to be easier to do than astral projection, even though the perception is not as clear but I'm sure that will improve some too by time, and hopefully I'll start getting back to more frequent astral projections that are self induced again as well though the spontaneous ones are great too.

Hope this answered some, cheers and best of luck.

Ok now that we got that out of the way, again, what about what I posted above DB? The specific questions I asked about the topic you started here? What specifics in your life lead you think plants are conscious? You know, all that stuff I outlined above.

Thanks.....

Kevin A.

O_O,
What am I doing in this part of UM. I need to get out of here. Plants being psychic and having feelings.... geez...

I hate people who say they do all these amazing things... yet they aren't going to a respected university at this very moment so they can become famous and put all the skeptics to shame.. They always don't have time, or don't feel like it, or some other reason.. If I could do any of these amazing things claimed on this forum, I would be famous by now.

Sorry, I forgot that part.

First of all, it seems they possibly are conscious, at the moment I can't say that with 100% certainty but I do think they are. This is due to several reasons, one is the fact that they are living beings and I personally simply think all living beings have some sort of consciousness in one way or other as that is part of being alive.

Then to some more hands on personal accounts. As already explained, I told you that as a person can have his consciousness separated from his body, this means that consciousness is not limited to our physical beings, but can exist anywhere, in any space, at any time, completely separated from its physical host. This is from already explained personal experience and experimentation. So as said, if consciousness do not need a physical body, and thus not a physical brain, and not anything physical at all, I see it probable that plants can have consciousness of some sort as well, as it's clearly not limited to creatures with brains.

Second reason is that plants have a very strong energy, that can be sensed with astral or aura sight, and in other ways too such as sensations when being close to them etc. It is like they radiate a pleasent peaceful and harmonic energy that seems to be of a conscious sort when you are around with them, and have at least developed the abilities to sense such things, or if you have such abilities already from birth. I guess most people can agree plants are pleasent and nature is nice to be in - at least personally I feel greatly refreshed and literally feel the energy emitting from the plants and botanical life such as trees etc that goes through my being and fills me up with their love and healing powers, I've often meditated in the nature and felt I've come in contact with the nature - that means the plants, trees, etc, the botanical aspect of nature.

A third reason is that I once experienced to be directly connected to a tree in a meditative state, and yes it probably sounds silly and what not but from all my spiritual experiences that I've previously proven for myself to be real, I found this to most likely be real as well. What happened was that the tree itself basically transmitted its "thoughts" to me in a way and told me about its long life and things it had experienced through many years and sent me some energies that could be used for healing and I could even for a short while see this energy emitting out from my hands as yellow laser beams when I tried to, though that visual aspect disappeared the power still were there and my healing abilities improved from that moment on.

The communication was a way that is hard to describe, the best way I can say is "telepathic" as the information just came to me without words obviously but it certainly gave me the reason to believe that trees and botanical life not only are conscious beings but also have some sort of intelligence that is pretty high, the problem is that they can't do much, as you or someone else stated, they can't move, they can't speak, they are just there working silently for us all. And it IS a fact that without botanical life there would be no life, at least no life that depends on oxygene - so they are like silent workers that demands nothing and are there just to keep life going and to help heal, as it seems to me from these experiences.

Of course this was a personal experience, so obviously this is not something I can give any evidence for, but yet for me it was reall and also in tune with what I've heard many other people claim about "contacts" with the botanical world later on. I was actually very surprised myself to have this experience and it changed a lot about my views on botanical life.

Then you have these other experiments people have done, from talking nice to their plants and giving them love and that apparently makes them healthier and grow better, while negative energies seem to make them more miserable - though these tests and experiments are somewhat disputed as I see from what people have posted, but still it seems to be something about it from many of the different experiments various people have done regarding plants.

So these things combined, with a couple other things that Im too tired to write about now, basically is the reason why I think what I do about plants and consciousness , and as a final note to me the whole universe seem to be a conscious process based in the great mind of the All - whatever that is

Great things be on your path and best wishes!
-EA

Before the fog rolls in completely, please allow me to clarify that there is no scientific consensus, even within a subspecialty such as stong AI, that any consciousness can operate without a physical mechanism.

The strong AI claim is only that the physical locus of cognitive activity need not be meat, and so, at least in principle, could be vegetable matter. That is the relevance of the strong AI viewpoint to this thread.

Nor is it obvious what the (in)separability of human consciousness from a human body would have to do with whether a plant does or doesn't exhibit consciousness. Even as evidence, a hallucination, regardless of its causal mechanism, would necessarily raise more questions than it could possibly answer.

Shamanic rituals in south america use ayahuasca to induce altered states where they could communicate with plants to learn their medicinal purposes..... supposedly

That's an interesting note, considering certain plants have these psychedelic properties, may the effects of this be that you temporarily emerge your consciousness with that of the plant? And why would a plant have chemicals that produce spiritual experiences, can it be part of the conscious makeup of the plant itself in a physical aspect just like our brain contains all kinds of various chemicals that gives different effects. Regarding psychedelic aspects, DMT is a part of the human brain, and plants containing DMT can trigger and release this and lead to profound experience according to those who've tried it.

This again leads to psychic abilities, as some people, including one on this board, have reported having psychic experiences and visions during the states induced by such plants, that have been verified to be real at a later occation by several persons (such as the person somewhere in this forum who said he/she had taken some drugs with a friend and seen the Columbia shuttle explode a couple days before it happened or something along those lines)

So is an psychedelic experience always an hallucination, in other words an illusion? I would say not, that they can be real experiences that can and have been verified by people involved in them. For some it has changed their lives and led to great spiritual insights and complete new belief systems and way of living.

And as you mention shamans, they also use these plants for divination purposes, from finding out who a thief is, to locate and heal diseases.

A good video about this is Shamans of the Amazon, here is a preview of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NZpOXj6u78

In the above mentioned video, the shaman makes a prediction regarding the guy who is making the documentary, and it turns out to be true. Also it contains interesting information, experiences and theories about these substances, including last ever interview with Terrence McKenna.

Even for those not interested in the spirituality, effects of psychedelic plants, shamanism etc, the video is still interesting as a documentary on the culture and lifestyle of the indians in the amazon and I highly recommend checking it out.

It's available as torrent at http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3296934/Shamans_of_the_Amazon

Ok so back to the topic, some people claim plants are psychic and have a consciousness, from my own experience I say that it is probable and seem to be that way as earlier explained from my own experiences. And when you also consider the fact that these plants themselves can give people amazing spiritual experiences and limited psychic abilities, there seems to be a link there as well regarding consciousness and plants.

For those interested in such plants and the effects they can induce, I recommend the series called "Sacred Weeds" which is a documentary produced as a scientific study on these plants and their effects:
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=%22s...amp;sitesearch=

So, do plant DO have a consciousness? I don't know for certain, but it seems that way to me from my own and others research and experiments and experiences. But I won't go as far and say there is no doubt about it, as more research and experimentation needs to be done in regards of this, unlike what I can say about things such as astral projection and human consciousness' ability to be separated from the physical body as that has been proven and tested and is beyond doubt. But there are indications strongly suggestion, at least from my perspective, that there is some sort of consciousness in plants.

-EA

I have had some interesting experiences on psychotropics myself. Telepathic/empathic conversation on mushrooms. OBE on dissociative drug. DMT when I took ayahauska with celerian root was pretty intense. Nice post btw.

Yeah well I wouldn't advocate the use of any such substances here as there are minors around, my article was intended to provide some scientific facts regarding plants and philosophical questions and theories related to those established facts and how they are used in other cultures as well and the seemingly connection with consciousness.

On another note, I found some more information about that experiment I was mentioning earlier regarding Backster and an Astronaut. The Astronaut was Dr. Brian O`Leary. It seems he also is doing some work with another astronaut, Edgar Mitchell, at his Institute of Noetic Sciences ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_Noetic_Sciences )

Here is a part of an article about the experiment done by Backster and O`Leary:


Source: http://www.primaryperception.com/bio/?page_id=7

I find it fascinating and quite encouraging that several NASA scientists-astronauts are taking part of this type of research and even running institutes to study and educate about mind - body - spirit connection, psychic work etc

I wouldn't suggest the use of any illicit substance to anybody. The perception opening properties of psychotropics seem to hinder any type of long term heightening of awareness more than they help.

I agree to that, that is probably why these shamans are so dependent on these substances to have any success at what they are doing at all. It's become a part of their lifestyles and way of achieving these visions and experiences.

While the same is completely possible without any substances except for your mind itself and whatever chemicals already exist in your brain

So with that said, what is your opinion about plants and consciousness?

-EA

Some things simply cannot, at this time be measured or quantified. Conciousness for one. We humans quite often are limited by our own experiences when it comes to realising the amazing everday things we share our planet with, such as plants.
I don't see how a brain or what we would recognise as a brain would be absolutely neccessary for something to be concious.
As to botanists or people who work everyday with plants... I know from working with livestock etc that it is easily to blind yourself to the fact that what you are working with, experimenting upon, mutilating or killing does not share any traits with humans. It is an act of our subconcious to protect ourselves from mental torture.

I haven't done much communicating with non-typical entities in regular every day life. I tend to think that organic and non-organic entities both exist, however in a normal state of mind communication is not really decipherable with plants. I could see it possible on some kind of deeper plane that I don't fully understand so I would hesitate to speculate more about it.