I guess I have to have 25 posts before I can enter the chat room. Please feel free to talk with me here for the time being. I tend to lean towards being an atheist. Most atheists would call me a heretic because I have had some experiences not easily explained by natural science. I have been lucid dreaming since the age of six and am very interested in OBE phenomina as well as astral projection.

Watch out for a guy called darkbreed. He claims he can astral project. He's a liar. There's no such thing as astral projection. See him come up with rubbish techniques that help you 'learn' it. They are supposedly as simply as relaxing then willing it to happen. If that were true everyone in the world would be AP'ing daily! And of course, when actually pressed to prove once and for all if he really can AP (by visiting forum members astrally), he has 'more important things to do' and is 'too busy'. No my friend, as interesting as the idea is, there really is no such thing. Don't waste your time.

Hi Future, and welcome to UM....You'll find many nice members here who will be willing to discuss just about anything with you...Have fun posting....

I have personally had varied OBE experiences though slightly over half not involving drug use. Even if my experiences could be summed up as altered dream states I would be somewhat skeptical of that, just because I tend to know how dreams feel and how other states do.

Anonymous: Calling me a liar is a bit rude. On what basis can you claim I'm a liar? Just because you've never experienced an astral projection yourself, or seen any evidence of it? So that makes me an liar, because I have experienced something you havn't? And I'm not even going to bother explaining once again why I don't do such requests you are mentioning as I already explained that several times and it should be pretty clear by now what the reasons are and they are not just what you mention. So you are the liar. Or you seem to have problems understanding certain things which has been explained already.

You are also claiming without any reasoning to why astral projection is not real. So to me, you are lying about that as well, as I know it is real because I have experienced it hundreds of times through the years, and so have millions of other people around the world. There are amazing amounts of resources on the subject, and even scientists, psychologists and doctors agree that there is something to the astral projection phenomena, they are not just exactly sure what t is and many are studying it and trying to figure it out, and I did give an extensive list of such scientists, researchers, institutions and groups in another thread ( http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...esearch+psychic ) - maybe you should contact some of them and see if they have any evidence to summon up for you as they are the ones openly working to do research and provide evidence on such things, not me, I've already told you that's not my mission. There is no doubt that the astral projection phenomena itself is real, but is the things experienced under such an experience real? That's a different question, but to me the answer is obviously yes as I've already done the experimentation to prove it for myself.

Isn't it also a bit curious that the governments spend decades on remote viewing and poured millions of dollars into that project, and now several of the CIA people who used to be part of that project is running schools teaching other people how to do it per the CIA procedure that they developed, and in addition they help solve crime cases now and then with the police? If there was nothing to it I'm pretty sure they would figure out that after some months or couple years at most, but no they kept it on for decades, and for all I know might still do - so they believed there is something to it as well:

CIA and Remote Viewing:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7371160296945984442

Remote Viewing an Abduction, with Major Ed Dames, former CIA employee in the Remote Viewing Program, Project Stargate:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8795770715038929831

The CIA and Military has also been active with dowsing which is another psychic ability related to remote viewing:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5663473528586547755

And for those interested in learning remote viewing, there is a whole Scientific Remote Viewing course available for free at the non-profit research organization Farsight Institute: http://www.farsight.org/

Peace. And best be with you.

I so far haven't found any sure fire method that has been more successful for me in AP. I have been in may different states while lucid and in between sleep, but none as solid as other OBEs.

anonymous 51, In future do not flame other members of this forum, anymore personal attacks will result in a warning. Your cooperation is appreciated.

Future, Welcome to UM. You will find many threads on OBE's, astral projection and Lucid dreaming on this forum which you can participate in. Please do not start a thread with the sole purpose of bumping up your posts to get into the chatroom. Your cooperation is also appreciated.

Due to the way this thread is going, downhill, it is now closed.