I have been having a religious debate with some Christians and they sent me this video from god tube. I have often said that I still have some issues with some Christians & these are the ones I have issues with.

I'm wondering how many of you buy into this & why do they believe that fear should be the leading motivation for getting people to become Christians?



http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?view...3891fd2e7277d15

If hell is real, then I feel sorry for every tribe that lives out in bfe where they have to pump the sunshine in with a waterhose....cause I bet hundreds of them die a day without hearing this message....seems unfair to me

Hairston

Edit: Wow these people tend to imply that little kids that dont understand will go to hell.

I think there is a powerful message there but as you say not the best way to tell someone about God. I believe there is a hell just as there is a heaven but I will not go about telling people they are going to hell if they don't believe in God, thats not my place nor my decision. I do tell people about God and how He has changed my life and that He can change theirs to but I don't force it on anyone because that will not accomplish anything but get people angry.
God tells us to witness for him and there is a way to do so without offending people. this "letter from hell is sending a message but I am not entirely sure it is the right message.
Always a pleasure

If I remember right.. someone posted this around new years... and the threads got locked because .. of some reason or another.. Yay go go gadget memory loss!

Anyways, I found it distastful then.. I find it just the same now.

I'd just like to say if anyone believes in a hell after death then y'all are some sick mofos.

Life on earth for some people can be more horrible than any imagined hell. Rape victims, sexually abused children, civilians who've been torn to pieces because of war....the list goes on and on.

And yet, if none of those poor victims believe in the Christian faith then they are doomed to suffer for all eternity in hell?

I've read the replies from Christians that hell to them means being away from god. Well, if that doesn't mean that they're suffering in some way then what the fudge does it mean?

I'm sorry, but that just disgusts me.

That movie was ridiculous.

That showed the evil of the Christian god more then anything.

The Angels were more like Gestapo then the servants of good...

What a foolish movie

Whatever else you can say negatively towards it, from a theatrical perspective, it did get the point across. What it lacked in theology it made up for in technology. Too bad for them that it is the theology that is important. I can't say I agree with any of that video, and no amount of production or mood will change that. My advice would be to read the Bible without their influence and see if you arrive at the same conclusion. Beyond that, I guess we are all entitled to opinions, even these guys.

~ PA

I thought it was fundamentalist propaganda,it seemed to exclude all non christians from heaven.it also propogates Hell as a "lake of fire ".yet apart from the Fundies no mainstream Christians subscribe to that idea anymore . in all it was nauseating propaganda


fullywired

I knew a woman who I thought was a friend. She started sending me those forwarded Christian emails, one she sent me was very offensive to me. It talk about all these people who died horrible deaths because they were not Christian. One of the people was John Lennon. I email her back saying I was not Christian I was a Wiccan, which she already knew, (at the time I was Wiccan) and was happy with my faith. I told her the last email was rather offensive to me, because the violent death of John Lennon had hurt me deeply that this wonderful poet of peace was killed so horribly. I told her I would much rather receive emails of how she was doing, than the forwarded stuff. I then wrote a nice letter about how I was doing, how I was active in my faith and would she like to go to a drumming circle sometime. She never wrote me back and the next time I saw her at an MS meeting she subbed me. I figure our whole friendship was based on whether or not she could convert me. I don't need friends like that, and neither does anybody else.

Fear disrupts the process of logical thought in most people and having a common enemy has always been a unifying force for people who otherwise have little in common with each other.

All contemporary views of Hell are taken from Dante's (huge) poem anyway, I'm not sure how much there actually is in the bible about it, descriptively at least. (I welcome being set to rights here, I'm not big on the ol' Good Book)

Either way, I find it particularly distasteful. Faith is called faith because thats what it is. You can't force someone else to have faith in something so untangible, let alone blackmail them emotionally. You should have faith because you love it, understand it and it makes you feels safe, not because you're scared of what happens if you don't.

That isn't love, thats fascism.

And apart from that its so illogical. They want to prevent "letters from hell" - how many thousands of millions of unbaptised people have died in the history of the world, and how many letters from hell have you recieved?

Just needed to comment that the production was shabby. Probably made with Windows Movie Maker... I found it actually detracted from what they were trying to express because it caused me to immediately laugh the whole thing off as being incredibely cheesey. However, I believe it was noted that it was made by highschool students, I think? They should continue exploring their potential in film making... perhaps with less controversial topics

The content of the video itself just exemplifies how much Christianity in general relies on fear as it's driving force. Quite sad really...

by Darkwind:

One of my former neighbors from New Jersey, who I do believe is a nice wonderful lady, would have my email addy on her list to forward emails, most of them Christian based. I am not sure, that fellow devout Christians like to get these emails, because it talks about how you should never and always believe. To me, they sound like they are trying to convert. Anyways, I would delete them, and any that says 'don't delete this, please email the sender too, do not break it, forward to others', I would delete them. I would not forward them, and I have not sent them back to the sender. One time, I got so frustrated at these Christian forwarded emails, I ended up forwarding emails, that I would get from my co-worker friends. These are people, like me, have a more, raunchy oulook, on stuff. Anyways, I would forward them to her, unlike the others on my list who appreciate them, I knew she would probably didn't. I hadn't had her send me them in a long while, until recently. She does surprise me once in a while. One of her recent emails, it talked about the correct way to disciplining a child. It even went on, on how gentle the parent in the email was taking aside the naughty boy, and gently lecturing how it should behave, and the best way to do this was to take the boy on a car ride. I kept thinking that this was going on with the parent talking to the kid in the car about Jesus. The picture spoke a different thing.

Nauty Kid here.


It makes me wonder, if any of these 'friends' who have converted people, if they still stay in contact.

Some people see the non believers as a challenge and see it as their place to MAKE you believe what they do. I do not agree with this as you can not make anyone do anything they do not want to and besides I don't think God wants people forced on to Him but wishes they come to him of thir own free will. Don't you think God knows the reasons we come to him? I do , I think that a lot of people turn to God when their lives are at there worst and I have often wondered if that made a difference to God verses the ones who come to God when their lives are great. Anyways I think its a kind of sickness that these people have they seek out the ones who they think needs rescuing and takes it upon themselves to ''rescue you". Please don't get me wrong there are people who do minister Gods word and give great testimonies to God and they are truly blessed people.
Always a pleasure

That was a really weak letter from hell. It would have been funnier if it was just all screaming and covered in blood. I would think that the type of real torture I could imagine would cause somebodies psyche to snap after just a few hours, maybe quicker. With the typical ideas most people have of hell I think I would get used to their feeble ideas of torture. Even the most demented things I can think of would only really be all that bad after the first time. Chewing on razor blades? Ahh that means it is 4 in the morning on Tuesday. Even having a sex change operation without anesthetic could be gotten used to. Being in "heaven" where a bunch of people are singing cheesy worship songs for an eternity would probably be worse. Either way I don't buy into a black and white end to existence. Heaven would cause somebodies soul to stagnate in eternal hedonism. I suspect it is a brick wall of non-existence or some other thing that not really anybody would be ready to comprehend (who is living that is).

that was a bad way to be treated...your friendship should not have been based on anything like that...i am a believer but i find what she did in very poor spirit and bad taste...people who do these things make it more difficult for others to talk freely about what ever they believe...we should be able to speak our beliefs anytime, an respecting all people in the process...

randomhit10

See, it is things like this "Letter from Hell" that actually drive a wedge in between Christians and non Christians. The people who put that out, have no relationship with God. They have a relationship with one man's idea of God. How do I know? It is very simple, God says that he gave us our free will to decide for ourselves. Also, Dante was not inspired by God to write the Inferno, he was inspired by his hatred of people in his life that he saw as wronging him. The church was after him so he placed several popes in hell. Everything we think of as hell today springs from Dante's poem.
There is absolutely nothing in the Bible to suggest anything of the sort. Therefore I submit, that these people are NOT spreading God's word, but are enamored with some 14th century entertainment that is comparable to the Friday the 13 movies today. Entertainment, with a little political message mixed in. They have been decieved and led away from God by people who preach this stuff and line their pockets with the offering plates bounty.

You know something I personally am a Christian but my views on hell differ than any other Christian I know. I get a lot of crap about it to, it is very simple one to, and in reality it’s something every Christian should follow. I don’t think hell is a place where people spend an eternity, I don’t think many people go there and I don’t think it is our place to say who is going and who is not. Christians always forget the not judging people part. I would say that even telling a non believer “you’re going to hell” falls into the category of judging, and the Bible speaks very clear on judging people.

I watched up until he started with the letter. I just couldn't handle anymore of whatever the hell that was going to be. Maybe I'll try again later, but whoever made that is the person I'd be worried about.

Funny thing is I was raised as a Catholic Christian (and I still can't tell you what Catholic and Christian implies as oppossed to just one or the other - I got lost in it and it just confuses me) and I still can't even bother to deal with that stuff.

The truth is having gone to Catholic school for 12 years probably turned me against the idea of organized religion more than it made me accepting of it. The schools were simply full of too many hypocrites. Simple example....they teach you to love and help other and those less fortunate and what not, but then at the same exact time they teach you to judge others soley by their appearance in the sense that they don't accept you if you have long hair (they make you cut it)....too many earing in an ear (females were allowed to have 1 set of earings)......and you have to be dressed the way they want you to dress, etc.....could go on with a bunch of them.

But anyways, I'm babbling....as for that video, like I said, I had to turn it off once I heard this fictional letter being read. It's so goofy I couldn't bother to try and take it seriously.

Also, with all that said, I hope people realize not all Christains and/or Catholics think like that. Then again, I guess those that say they don't think quite like that may not be considered Christian anyway by the church and what not.

That little movie was stupid and disgusting.

The only point it made was that Fundie Christians will use anything to try and guilt trip or scare people into becoming walking billboards for what someone else believes.

It's so blatant, it's almost comical.

"YOU BETTER GET OUT THERE AND CONVERT AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU CAN, CAUSE IF YOU DONT AND SOMEONE DIES, ITS YOUR FAULT!"

Nauseating.

Oh no disagreements in general (though I don't think I actually laughed at anything in the film). The production wasn't perfect. But I was just saying that from a theatrical perspective, they got their point across effectively. I thought so, at least.

Wow I can not believe that PA didn't respond to this yet, oh well, in a couple of days, he will formulate a response. Looks like god would tell you what to say right off the bat doesn't it?

If hell is real, then I feel sorry for every tribe that lives out in bfe where they have to pump the sunshine in with a waterhose....cause I bet hundreds of them die a day without hearing this message....seems unfair to me

Anyone that has not a choice to to pick sides because the message didnt come to them are still Gods children and will not go to Hell. In fact if you cant pick a side them thats ok to and that does not mean your going to Hell for it. How you live your life decides that nothing else. Those that worship the Devil are doomed straight to Hell. God will let you decide your own fate in the end if you stay in the middle. Ride it out if you have to right & wrong are known by man even without knowing Gods word. Not knowing Gods word helps get you on the bus faster but hey live free and live right not wrong.

it upsets me that this movie pushes and causes kids to think their bad if they dont try to convert people, its no one else's place to push ones religion onto another, if the person is interested they'll ask.

And no other religions in the world behave this way. When is the last time a bhuddist knocked on yor door, trying to save you from yourself?

This type of hell and brimstone scare tactic is not "Christianity", even though it seems that they may have based this "letter" on the parable in Luke 16:19-31.

People who have been convinced of an everlasting burning hell of torment are easy victims to such "mind games". That is exactly why the RC hierarchy taught Dante's fictitious story of hell. ... The superstition of ancient times was perfect for controlling the masses, and the same con-game still is just as popular, sad to say.

Consider how terrified one would be if confronted by a knife-wielding mad-man. Now, consider the terror facing a person who sees himself spending eternity in a hell of searing fire? Fear is a great weapon.

As I see it, if you are interested in debating with such "Christians", why not show them Scriptures from the bible that teach about the path to salvation? Those Scriptures are not based on fear of torture, but show God's marvelous plan of future life and immortality for Mankind, in God's kingdom as literal children of God. But, then you would have a problem reconciling that with your present beliefs pf paganism.

Yes, I think that video is not only in bad taste, it is diabolically evil. I think it is evil because it preys on impressionable young minds ... subtly distorts bible teachings with superstitions.

Imagine the trauma such a video could cause to the minds of people who had suffered the loss of a friend or relative.

That is exactly what I picture, all the believers in the "word" slaughtered buy an agent of god for not believing the truth and needing all of these human interpolations to in god's eyes destroy them, and remove them from god.

*edit* I can sort of see where PA's stance is on this,after all, his country hasn't been invaded bu the usurpers of the kingdom yet, he is just in the first wave, as they multiply, I would expect, based on his previous positions, for his position to harden, after all, we have been watching this phenomena for years and he readily admits that it is just now beginning to overwhelm his country.

That's news to me. That is, unless the RC and Protestants have changed their teachings about hell? Especially the RC; read up on the vivid Marian visions of hell.

Why would I respond? For one, you weren't even aiming your question at me. Two, I generally agree with your post (though there are some minor issues I disagree with). I don't believe that this video is theologically accurate (almost directly opposite, actually). And I completely agree with your comments on Dante. And I certainly agree with your assessment of the video (the Friday the 13th analogy was quite good, actually).

So why would I respond to you, and why would I be spending a couple of days formulating a response even if I were to? I certainly am not waiting for "divine inspiration" as you imply.

~ Paranoid Android

But it is. Just because it isn't what you think personally as a Christian. It isn't up to individuals to define Christianity for all the others, even if it is what you want.

Website about Hell.

YOUREGOINGTOHELL.com

Atheists and Agnostics going to hell.

Unfortunately, it is the common teachings of Christian churches to spread the word of God or risk burning in Hell forever.

Tasteless, absolutely tasteless. My hats off to whoever runs those sites, I hope these sites make the Christians here blush. The first one was so fallacious it wasn't even funny, these people are obviously out of touch with reality.

*boldened quote for emphasis*
But to play Devil's Advocate (no pun intended), isn't that what you are doing by telling Christians what they believe? You quote a few websites which show that some Christians do believe that, but then make the leap that it is the "common" (read "dominant") belief. You then attempt to define Christianity for all others.

Just a thought.

The Catholics have changed their stance on hell and so have the moderate protestants ,I did exclude fundies in my post because they will believe anything



"The idea of hell has a strong hold on the human imagination. Virtually every religious tradition has some version of it. In the West, even people who have never been inside a church are familiar with the traditional image of hell as a fiery, underground abode where horned devils with pitchforks torment the damned for eternity. But does it really exist?

Most educated people in the West no longer think so, but there are exceptions. Fundamentalist Christians believe that hell is quite real indeed-the literal lake of fire into which anyone who does not accept Jesus Christ as his or her Lord and Savior is thrown. And I just read an article (cited above) about a recent sermon given by Pope Benedict XVI, in which he declared that hell "really exists and is eternal, even if nobody talks about it much any more." Speaking to a local church in Rome, he warned that those who don't repent of their sins are in danger of falling into "eternal damnation-the inferno." Vatican officials later clarified that while hell is real and eternal, the Pope was not claiming that it is a physical place. Rather, he was expressing the view of the Catholic catechism that hell is a "state of eternal separation from God," to be understood "symbolically rather than physically."

http://tinyurl.com/26hspm

No, no. I did not attempt to define anything. I don't have that power.

What I was showing is that there are many people who define themselves as Christians who believe that not spreading the word will land you in Hell. Why would the definition of the poster I was responding to make these other Christian's definition null and void?

I see it all the time, when one CHRISTIAN does something another CHRISTIAN doesn't agree with, they will say "Oh, well they aren't a true Christian." The same response is made by the other. Within the entire category of Christianity, it is not up to an individual to decide what parts of the faith should be included in the definition or not.

Am I wrong?

Oh, I was sitting here watching it start up and I couldn't help but spurt out a giggle and stop the video by the time it reached "A LETTER!" "A Letter from HELL!" (text zooms "dramatically" for about 5 seconds of silence) OH MAN I nearly fell off my chair. I felt like I was at the movie theatres watching The Grudge or Darkness Falls all over again.

I understand the mood they were trying to impress onto the viewer, and based on comments under the video and your response, they partially succeeded. Like any other "horror" flick though, mixed response is inevitable.



I agree with you on this one PA! You're absolutely right. I also have to commend you for taking this all in stride, instead of becoming offensively defensive over any jabs at the religion you are affiliated to. It must be difficult for you to see your beliefs herded into a nutshell with this fear mongering.

I think it's absolutely ridiculous to think all Christians share the sentiment of this short film. However, it is a stance taken by a laaarge number of people and I see it everyday. I'm sure most people reading this do as well. This is a fact of life that will not change anytime soon as these morals are deeply embedded in our culture. It should all be taken with a grain of salt... until it begins to violate the rights of others.

This video can be dangerous, but it serves as fair warning that some folks truly feel this way and are out to convert.

Thank these filmmakers, no one here shall be made a fool by this propoganda. Perhaps one day it will be recognized for what it really is, propoganda that works to divide the public. Whether that was the intent, that is the result it serves.

edit:sp

Indeed.

I will not believe in this 'hell'.

There is a reason I abandoned Christianity, for reasons more than one.

Yeah...about that letter,

I thought there a lot of truth to that letter. But at the same time it was twisted. The fact is that if someone TRULY never has a chance to know Jesus. Would they go to hell? Well...in reality that's up to God to decide. But truly I don't believe so. I can't for an absolute, only god can. So anyways I also feel this made some good points in the teaching of evangelizing. I don't like however that it sort of comes of like we have to force it. I believe we should share the truth of Jesus Christ with one another. Not force it.

A Letter from Hell brings up a few questions like:

Did anyone know there was a post office in hell?
Are the lines there really bad?
Can you send letters addressed to hell?
Do mailmen in hell wear the same black socks and shorts?
Do the stamps taste really bad?
If someone goes Postal at the post office in hell would anyone notice?
Does satan get junk mail?
How does mail work in hell anyway, isn't it hot enough down there the paper would burn before you could send it?
In hell when you lick an envelope do you ALWAYS get a wicked paper cut on your tongue?
Can you send a snowball to hell registered mail just to see if it makes it?

Hi SDD, I wrote:
This type of hell and brimstone scare tactic is not "Christianity", even though it seems that they may have based this "letter" on the parable in Luke 16:19-31.

You replied:


SDD, you are correct: "It isn't up to individuals to define Christianity for all the others, ...". And I do not desire "to define" Christianity to anyone. Why not? Because the true and correct definition of biblical Christianity is available only in the bible Scriptures.

I also agree with you that, "Unfortunately, it is the common teachings of Christian churches to spread the word of God or risk burning in Hell forever."

Now, I must also admit that I was at fault in what I wrote, because I did not define what I mean by "Christianity".

My understanding of Christianity consists of beliefs that are provable or reasonably deduced from the bible. By this I mean that one must discern between what is meant to be taken literally, and what is a parable or an allegory. ... Trouble is; this leads to innumerable differences of opinion concerning reality and imagery, amongst believers. ... This present topic about "hell" is an example of such confusion between reality and imagery.

Getting back to the point about "hell"; I have proven to my own satisfaction that Scriptures picturing a hell where souls are tormented for eternity, are parables -- not reality -- and that is why I wrote: "... This type of hell and brimstone scare tactic is not "Christianity", ...".

Concerning the three websites you gave: I assume that these are owned by eccentric, mislead Christians who have very little understanding about the true teachings in the bible. In my opinion these three websites teach misconceptions, not biblical truth.

So what type of Christian do I see myself to be? I suppose "non-denominational" would fit. Another description could be "bible-based". A "non-conformist bible-believer", maybe.

Hhmmm -- of course, "eccentric, mislead Christian" would also fit; depending on one's point of belief.

Hi FW -- how do you see that the RC has changed its view/s on hell?

Since the time the RC adopted Dante's fictitious tale about hell as a true description of a real hell, they have taught that un-biblical idea, and still do so.

The following is from the website of the Catholic Encyclopedia article on “hell”. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07207a.htm

“…The Holy Bible is quite explicit in teaching the eternity of the pains of hell. The torments of the damned shall last forever and ever (Revelation 14:11; 19:3; 20:10). …”

“…According to the greater number of theologians the term fire denotes a material fire, and so a real fire. We hold to this teaching as absolutely true and correct. … there is no sufficient reason for taking the term as a mere metaphor. …”

The RC has used parables as teachings of reality. Also, they teach incorrectly that "the lake of fire" is eternal hell-fire; the truth being that that is the moment of instant death of unrepentant mortals, after the "second" resurrection.

If you can see where I am mistaken, please post some references regarding that.

That was awesome. I loved it. I'm an atheist, but I'll admit that it was a fine piece of work, very well done. On the other hand, it was just a tad over the top. I think if I was Christian, I might be offended by it and the way it will turn more people against christianity. But, oh well, I'll just enjoy it for now.

From my understanding Catholics, no loner believe in hell or Satan they used it to motivate others to convert to Christianity & then dropped it. If you believe in God then you too must believe in Satan & the whole story personally I think you are picking & choosing if you do not believe in the whole story. In the United States, at least hell is preached in most churches & that you go to hell if you do not believe that Jesus died for you. The bible talks about a burning hell not just separation from God.

Vatican officials later clarified that while hell is real and eternal, the Pope was not claiming that it is a physical place. Rather, he was expressing the view of the Catholic catechism that hell is a "
state of eternal separation from god," to be understood "symbolically rather than physically ." you are reading out of date material

another quote from Pope John Paul

In the words of Pope John Paul II, "The images of hell that Sacred Scripture presents to us must be correctly interpreted. They show the complete frustration and emptiness of life without God. Rather than a place, Hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy".[11] An [b]earlier/b] catechism, however, describes the suffering of those in hell in more traditional terms, as fiery "punishment" rather than as "self-exclusion" from God.[12]



There it is, taking the fire out of Hell.





And more recently, less than a month ago, we find the denial of Hell coming from Pope John Paul II, who said, “Hell is not a physical place but the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God.” He denied that Hell is a place of fiery torment. He went on to say that Hell is not a punishment imposed by God and that eternal damnation “is not God’s work but is actually our own doing.” (Reuters, July 29, 1999)



There it is, taking the fire out of Hell.





And there are many, many others who do not believe in Hell.



Fuller Theological Seminary’s new doctrinal statement departs from its original position on eternal punishment for believers, simply saying that the wicked shall be separated from God’s presence. (FEA, News & Views, May/June 1971)



Michael Van Horn, Grand Rapids Baptist College and Seminary, while Assistant Professor of Bible, Religion and Ministries, denied that there was a literal heaven or a literal hell. He especially denied that there was any “literal fire” in hell.



There it is, taking the fire out of Hell.





Bill Phipps, Moderator, United Church of Canada, “I have no idea if there is a hell. I don’t think Jesus was that concerned about hell. He was concerned about life here on earth. Is heaven a place? I have no idea.” (Ottawa Citizen, Oct. 23, 1997)

http://www.libertytothecaptives.net/taking...e_out_hell.html







fullywired

Well said!

I guess we are saying the same thing. And, PA got me thinking, who IS allowed to define what Christianity is anyway? I think I will have to do a little research...

I have to say on listening to it a second time I found it a little hilarious.

Its so poorly done and at the most I think it shows how intrinsically 'evil' some Christians get when they encounter people of other beliefs.

The fact is that such productions seem to me to push people further from the Christian faith. It is something that Dawkins might do to discredit Christianity almost.

Are you saying Christianity can't be defined ?Seems to me ,That people are calling themselves Christians but are believing in different things ,they all can't be right and if some are wrong then they are not Christians.To be a Christian you must accept the whole package not just the bits you like


fullywired

Well after watching that video i have to say what a vengeful spitefull character god must be, & who would want to belong to a club that had him as a leader. Talk about classic blackmail tactics, ''believe in me or else''
But it only applies if you fall for the ludicrous concept of heaven & hell.

Almost no one who has ever studied the near-death experience (NDE) comes away thinking that Hell is eternal.--Dr. Ken Vincent

I myself don't believe in it and I bet those who have had NDE's concerning hell were christian.

“"Conversation"

God and I in space alone . . .
and nobody else in view . . .
"And where are all the people,
Oh Lord" I said,
"the earth below
and the sky overhead
and the dead that I once knew?"
"That was a dream," God smiled
and said: "The dream that seemed to
be true; there were no people
living or dead; there was no earth,
and no sky overhead,
there was only myself in you."
"Why do I feel no fear?" I asked,
"meeting you here in this way?
For I have sinned, I know full well
and is there heaven and is there hell,
and is this Judgement Day?"
"Nay, those were but dreams"
the Great God said, "dreams that have ceased to
be.
There are no such things as fear and sin;
there is no you . . . you never have been.
There is nothing at all but me."”
Ctrl_R Ella Wheeler Wilcox quotes (American poet and writer 1850-1919)

Well Said, you are either for Christ or against him, but nutrial you cannot be, the one deciding factor that separates Christianity from any other religion, is the fact that Jesus rose from the grave. BTW, Show me any other religion where the savior and/or profit rose from death.