A lot of members here claim to be able to leave their physical bodies and go anywhere. This test is to change my mind.

Every year I go to Vimy Ridge in France or try too anyway.

What I want you to do is to tell me what I have placed there every time I have went. The objects in question are placed out of view and not one has gone missing, Your goal is to tell me what it is I have left there.

Rules:

1: You only get one try.
2: All answers must be PM'ed.
3: The topic can be discussed however do not violate rule 2.

The correct answer will be posted here by me provided anyone gets it right.

The reason for only 1 try and for rule 2 is simple, it eliminates the possibility of simply guessing the correct answer via process of elimination.

Of course the answer can be guessed and the correct answer does not leave the realm of chance. However I will have a series of other challenges for the winner to confirm their ability.

Unfortunately! I have a feeling that this experiment will be a hard one for the APers to grasp.

I don't expect anyone to get the correct answer so it's all good.

Insert lame excuses as to why this cannot be done here...

I'd like to participate in a remote viewing experiment, as I've earlier mentioned, once I'm back from my travels and have had the time to practice it some more first and prepare myself for such an experiment, and also have the time to do so.

However, in my experiment I want it to be a little different, I want to follow standard remote viewing protocols. That means I will know NOTHING about the target, and the only thing I will be given is a random 8 digit number that is a reference number for the target, and only the person who chose the target such as yourself will know what the target is.

The target has to be reasonable enough regarding type and size, for example choosing a whole country as target would not be applicable as that is too general and the results would not be very precise. However, a monument in a specific country, a specific mountain, a lake, a building, an object in your room, a picture of a landscape or any of the other mentioned targets etc would be good. Once a target is chosen, a random 8 digit number needs to be assigned to it, if the target is on a photo you simply write the number on a note and stick it on the photo, if the target is an object of your possession you can do the same, however if the target is a remote place you can't physically put a note with the number on you just need to write down what the target is with the assigned number below it, and at the end in any case you have to mentally visualize the target for a short moment and the number assigned, then you will give this 8 digit number to me and I will report back what I sense about the target and possibly sketches of it and other details. A monitor is also need, which can be one of the administrators or moderators, which you will tell the target and the number before starting the experiment, so we have a third party that can verify what the target was after the experiment has been carried out.

So to put it short and simple, the person who give me the reference number for the target will tell me absolutely nothing about the target such as location or anything, except for only the 8 digit number itself that is assigned to it. The only persons who will know what the target is, are the person choosing the target and the monitor.

Just so you know how I want the routine to be when I feel ready to participate in this, I will make a new specific thread for this purpose and probably let several people chose different targets one by one after each experiment.

At the moment I can't promise any timeframe on when I'll be able to carry out such experiments but at least now you'll know how I want it done.

If this sounds like a fair way to do the experiment then I will try my best to get on to it as soon as possible once I'm back from my travels (I leave tomorrow and will be away for 3-4 weeks).

In the meanwhile, good luck to anyone who chose to participate in the current challenge of AtheistGod

-EA

Well, of course the main thing that will be argued is that they will need more details.
(Oh, thats not enough can you please give a few more details...)

Basically, it ends up with them wanting you to give them the answer.

I'm not someone who claimsthey can remote view or astro project, but I'm thinking if I got on a plane and went out to Vimy Ridge and poked around, would I be able to find any of the objects you've left there? What if I didn't find them all? Would it still be credible? I mean, that's the whole point of remote viewing or astro projecting except you're doing it from home. So, I think, if something's hidden from view from the average person then it would be just as hidden from the psychic travellers. And what if someone physically goes out there and looks about, and doesn't find your stuff, but comes across maybe some coins someone dropped or a lost toy a child misplaced and thinks, hey I found something? Then what?

You would be able to find the said objects pretty easily... Most people just don't look for stashed stuff at Vimy... Every year I go the objects are still there for like 8 years in a row.

They aren't in plain view but would be easily found... I've seen shows and read testimonials especially about remote viewers and their 'homing' ability to find something with little to no information. As far as I am concerned they have been given an easy task.

With respect, there is no "standard" remote viewing protocol, since all remote viewing experiments in the open literature have failed to establish a scientific consensus that the phenomenon exists.

The eight-digit random number which has so captured your attention played a specific role in a particular experimental design. It was, no doubt, appropriate there. It is simply "magical thinking" to imagine that an arbitrary feature of one adept's ritual would be incorporated in the next adept's attempt.

The current design is a screening test (i.e. there will be other tests for whoever succeeds in the test). The test is not about you personally, but is open to everyone. If you qualify, by naming the object described, then you will be eligible for more advanced testing, tailored to your unique talents.

You have repeatedly refused to provide any evidence that you have any preternatural skills or knowledge whatsoever. Here's your chance.

There are methods of RV'ing where you can perform a search using keywords, almost like running it through a search engine. So even without the objects being visual physically, they should be able to be found psychically. But I do believe we'd (actually they'd) need more information about either the OP, or the items themselves.

It didn't just play an role, the 8 digit number is still the most frequently used system of remote viewing, and if you want to know more or learn it yourself I highly recommend the free audio lesson course in Scientific Remote Viewing supplied by the Farsight Institute at www.farsight.org

And no now is not my chance to do anything because I don't have time, I'm leaving in some hours and have not prepared myself in any way for any experiments at this moment, and besides I outlined the only routine I will do this experiment as it is not something I'm doing to prove anything, it's something I'm doing as a personal experiment and to practice my abilities with remote viewing and thus I prefer to do it the way I know to do it and have done before.

Also regarding me providing evidence for anything, that's not why I'm here, if anything I'm here to teach other people how to do the same things and I'm more than glad to do that, as well as learn some new things myself.

Good luck with this current challenge once again and see you in some weeks

Umm, not to labor the obvious, but there is only one target in the screening test proposed by the OP. What would assigning it an eight digit number accomplish?

Name it or pass. Pass? Noted. One excuse is as good as another.

Bon voyage.

Thank you for clearing that up for me

To respond to another statement, why does an APer or RVer need key words, or more clues? I assume the clue, or key words, is 'Vimy Ridge'. They need to look for some stuff, which, I assume, would be things that would stand out or obviously don't belong in that environment. As the OP says, one would be able to find the objects pretty easily. If only they looked.

Because in this method of RV'ing (which is different from Ap'ing) the Viewer acknowledges that there is a sort of repository of information, past present and future. Using these word is necessary because otherwise the answer they get will be full of nonimportant material, or totally unrelated information.

I'm not saying they need the words to be transported there so they can look around. They need them to pull the answer from wherever it's being stored (other than in the OP's head). Just the location isn't enough when RV'ing. You have to give a description of what it is you're looking for (what your intention is, not what is hidden)

excuse me eight bits, if you have actually done some reaserch on the subject of remote viewing, you would have discovered that there are several types of it, and it would have been obvious that the type that darkbreed was refeering to is called "coordinate remote viewing", with this type the rv'er or somebody else must associate an 8 digit number to the object, photo, etc... then the number is to be given to the rv'er, who will use it to gain information about the object or whatever by staring or thinking about the number while in a hypnagogic state, darkbreed, please correct if i am wrong.

Now I'm really confused about the remote viewing thing. How does looking for something have anything to do with past, present and future? I know nothing about how remote viewing works, so I'm not trying to seem sarcastic or anything like that. How does intention fit into this situation as well? The OP has put some items out there ...I suppose the intention, at least at this time, would be that he would like to see if any remote viewer or astro pojectionist see/find any of his objects. What kind of description can he give, if not of the objects themselves? I would consider giving a description of the objects cheating.

I read stories before, that the USA used to use remote viewers to spy on the USSR. I'm not sure if it worked or what their findings were. How could they have known what kind of instructions to give the remote viewers in that case, with (I assume) so little information they had?


Abt this 8 digit number thing, which someone mentioned - how is that supposed to help? How is the OP supposed to come up with an 8 digit number? Is he supposed to make it up? If so, then what diffrence does it make? I mean, I could go out right now and put something on my front lawn and ask a remote viewer to see if they can see it, but I wouldn't have the foggiest idea of what kind of number to assign it. I'd make it up. Therefore, it wouldn't have any significant meaning to the object. I wouldn't give GPS co-ordinates as I would consider that cheating in this day and age, unless I place the object under the house out of view of everyone. I would give out certain information about where in the world my object is located, though, since the purpose would be for the psychic traveller to be able to see the object, not have to search for the location. I don't know the size of Vimy Ridge, but it has been specifically named. So, I assume anyone who claims they can astro project or remote view, should be able to go to, or look at, a general location and have a look around without being given any more information.

this is all sort of vague, is Canadian National Vimy Memorial the place in question?

is the item in the grass, under the rocks to the north east, on the structure, do you have any idea how many people visit the area and leave their own items all over the place, not to mention loose change. without even going there and reading your description, it seems to me that your item is a type of trinket or miniature statue purchased there and placed out of view.

in all fairness an exact location would be helpful, it's not like most of us are going to make a trip just to look first hand.

Like I said, this is ONE WAY to remote view. And RV'ing allows one to search the past present and future, if you want/have to. Intention is what your mind is setting out to do, what purpose you have. You wouldn't take up a task without knowing what it is you're doing, would you?

The description I had in mind was of the OP (original poster), like I already said. To me, it doesn't feel like one would be able to get a good impression of them as of this moment.

Don't worry, I'm fairly certain no-one will have guessed it by the time you get back. You're not going to France by any chance are you?


How convenient.

People claim such wonderful gifts on these forums, yet are so loathe to use them. People complain about sceptics and their doubting ways, yet when a chance to offer clear evidence arises, they suddenly remember they have to be somewhere.

No I'll be traveling to the Andes and other places in Argentina, such as up to Iguazu by the borders between Paraguay and Brazil, and then further down south.

Regarding your last comment, the offer to provide evidence has been here as long I remember and I've never had any interest in trying to prove anything something which should be clear by now. So me going somewhere has nothing to do with that. And I actually offered myself to take part of an experiment as soon I'm back and prepared, and I clearly stated the reason for me to want to do it the way I want is because that is the way I know how to do that task.

If you know how to swim and want to prove it to me, I'd let you do it the way you know how to do it, I wouldnt ask you to swim backwards or with your hands behind your neck. I don't see what is so strange about me wanting to do something the way I know how to do it, instead of a way I don't. You should be happy that I'm actually offering to do this experiment, and the fact that I ask to know nothing about the target or its location at all should make it even more interesting as far I can see.

I guess this will be my last message here for today as I'm already late and soon heading for my travel here. So take care everyone and when I'm back from my travels and have prepared myself for the mentioned experiment I'll post a thread about it and let someone chose a target. :



Cheers!

i can test you on that, i have an image coordinate of 9002, if you guess it i will post it up.

I think he is already halfway to the airport.

So far 377 thread views and not one taker, not even a guess.

ok i'll guess i'll guess. A miniature bunny.

I took a swing at it.

Lucky you!


Do you mean it should be clear because you've already provided the evidence? If so, I hope you'll point it out to us newcomers when you return from your trip.


Where psi experimentation often goes wrong is in letting the subjects take over the experimentation, and create their own criteria and methodology (this was what allowed the Alpha Project to succeed). But okay, I hear what you're saying about doing things the way you know how. But it does confuse me a little - the way AP and RV are discussed on this board, one would imagine that the protocol AG gave would be a snap, that you could do it (ahem) in your sleep. But now this simple task is difficult, and you want to do it 'the way you know how'. It's just a bit unclear as to why. Perhaps on your return you could elaborate? And finally, it seems as though your suggested protocol has a number of superfluous aspects, which as far as I can see would serve to make success more difficult for you - and thereby offer a certain excuse if you do not reach the criteria (not that you'd necessarily use the excuse, but I'm sure we'd all be thinking, 'well it was an extra hard task!' if you failed).

To use your analogy, I don't want to see you backflip through a flaming hoop, i just want to see you swim.

astral projecting allows people to leave their bodys, it does not make them psychic lol, you have given an almost impossible feat. It would be like me telling you to go to my friends house and see is she can come over tomorrow, where is my friends house in taralgon? well im not going to tell you. seriously i mean no offence, im just saying you haven't given enough information. You cant ask people to go project to Vimy Ridge in france and expect them to find something you put ther, for one thing how big is vimy ridge and how would they know you put an item there. it makes this whole test pointless.

please come up with something more reasonable.

Lol I find it funny that you have set this task, and besides two replies, it has all been theories about if it's possible or not.

But it's like a game, right? Games are fun, so I'll have a go -hehehe- is it, like, roses or gifts on...like, a grave or,like...a place that someone you knew liked to go that you're not with anymore or something...LOL! I dunno I'm just taking stabs at the dark....or is it stabs in the dark? ...Doesn't matter, I suppose.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...



Underlines some of the difficulties of generically testing a claimed ability, I suppose.

Saying that, I can't actually see the problem with telling the exact location of this item, since anyone who actually has the ability to go to Vimy has the potential to find it anyway, and as someone else has pointed out, this is only a screening test. But the guy on this thread who does claim to AP/RV seems to be requesting less information, not more.

Incidentally, it did occur to me that Google Earth might give this one away (especially if the objects are placed on top of something); AtheistGod, you might do well to check the target isn't visible on that program? I've had a good old look myself, but obviously I don't know what I'm looking for, and some of the photos attached to the monument are quite hi-res.

All analogies are imperfect, of course, but this one is way off the mark. The issue is not simply whether the poster can swim. The poster claims to be a swimming teacher.

So, yes, sensei, I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect to see a few strokes before signing up for class. Especially when the subject is something like swimming with no water in the pool.

didn't you read my request!

As far as I know, astral projection doesn't allow you to travel around the physical dimension. I have been astral projecting (not on purpose) and I never can control where I go... I always just come out of my body in the room I'm in.. then get "teloported" somewhere else. I can't control it. A lot of times I will meet people and talk to them... I don't make any assumptions on whether it is "real" or not.

It's not like any of the people on this forum are here to make money, some attention maybe (at the most, if any), but really, whats the point of this except reinforcing your own beliefs? What if someone did get it right? Would that change your mind about it or would you just figure the 1% chance someone guessed what you were talking about?

That's not what many here claim, DarkBreed included. This challenge/test is presumably addressed to them.


It sounds very difficult therefore to tell the difference between your own AP experiences and dreams.


Yep, I guess that's one of the points. Not everyone does things for money; some, I suspect, are genuinely mistaken in believing they may have a magic power of some kind. Perhaps some really do - that's what this test is designed to check out.


It's been said already, but this seems to be intended as a screening test (i.e. the first, easy trial of several). If someone manages to perform well on not only this, but other similar trials then I for one will sit up and take notice. I won't lose my critical faculties, and if there's a possible explanation I'll say so, but these abilities (if true) should pass these tests with flying colours, shouldn't they?

I have only had on PM with an answer. While the answer was wrong at least it was an attempt.

It's been made clear to me that not one single person here despite the claims made can accomplish this rather simple task... so far anyway.

Johnny Truant kudos for at least giving it a shot.

Electrokinesis is me, you automatically disqualified yourself by posting a public answer.

I will let this thread continue for a few more days before I have it locked and reveal the answer to you all.

doesn't seem like an open minded discussion since you ignored my and blueguardians request.

i also don't see why a pm would be necessary for a correct answer, if the first attempt is correct then what else is there.

so i guess you better have the thread closed before someone gets it right, that way there is no explaining to do.

this is the way you want to look at it



but i am thinking about the people that would ap or obe and go straight over and look.

this is what the numbers are for, taken from http://www.astralvoyage.com/

The reason answers need to be PM's as opposed to posted here is that some answers may not be correct. Fact is there was already an honest attempt at getting the answer and it was incorrect.

By not having the incorrect answers posted it decreases the possibility of someone simply guessing via process of elimination. Basically the more incorrect answers that are posted here increases the likely hood of someone guessing the right answer and ruining the test.



Ok it's at the memorial site, no more information should be needed and this and it narrows the field of search. There will be no hints in regard to the said objects, the objects themselves are unique and should be recognized easily.

To help you in your task I will provide a visual aid.



I assumed people here were smart enough to know that it would have been at the memorial. Guess I was wrong....



This question is answered in the OP. To rule out chance other challenges will be given to the person who gets the correct answer.

that's a little better, since i already asked if that was the location. for me, a location of said item or items need to be given. if i end up over there, i could be looking all over the place and finding all sorts of things. this would give me an objective, a reason to look, which should help.

With respect, Mark, I believe that there is some confusion about what the issue with the number is.

Darkbreed objected to OP's methods, asking for an eight digit random number to identify the target. What you quote involves a meaningful number, which describes the location of the target in a systematic way.

Random and meaningful are mutually exclusive categories.

Although the OP has provided some additional information since darkbreed and I last exchanged views, at the time of our discussion, OP had provided little more than the coordinates of the object. OP used words, based upon a standard nomenclature of place names, rather than numbers.

I would also suggest the possibility that the little additional information OP provided, basically that the target was "smaller than a breadbox" and distinctive in its context, was comparable to the actual state of information available to subjects in the experiments darkbreed and I discussed.

The issue, ultimately, is whether or not participating in the screening experiment was worthy of darkbreed's valuable time and effort, compared to, say, the time and effort of regaling us at length about the magnificence of his many powers and his fitness as a World Teacher.

Your quoted matter supports my view that darkbreed's stated objection to the OP's test was unfounded. Thank you.

Wow this could have been a really fun thread if it wasn't so over-analyzed! I sent my PM guess to Aethiestgod. It's probably incorrect but at least I tried . I say let's have fun with this!!

the 8 digit number is the same, a random number that identifies the image, it was called a coordinate number because it relates to a specific picture.

i am still waiting for an exact location for a possible ap to directly find the item in question.

how about a wreath

Here's what I responded to, Mark:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...t&p=2183562


This was after the OP had provided a location. The test involves a single trial. There is nothing for an 8-digit number, random or not, to do in this test.

The OP has subsequently explained why he chose to provde the information he did, no less and no more.

And you know what, Mark? I had a vision the last time I was out in the astral. There was this parallel universe where the OP provided an eight digit random number and nothing else, and this guy had some other song and dance about why that was no good either.

i know what the reason we were given the task but i wanted to expand on it, a direct location of the object in question. that way i could be sure to find the correct item. i am sure you can imagine the possibility that many people travel to the site, leaving all sorts of things behind. it's a memorial, people are not only drawn there to view the structure, many are there to pay their respects.

as for the astral, it can be very confusing and random. you really need to keep focus, an objective so to speak. just being able to move can be a challenge, the reason so many people can't seem to get past the paralysis state. then the other levels, i find the closest level to our daily life is the dream state, that can be very distracting, moving beyond that is challenging enough.

now if someone tries to mentally project, they may not need as much information, some others might. in order to have a fair test, more specific information would help people that aren't so in tune with their self.

however a test where i just walk out side and pull up a blade of grass then let it go in the wind and ask, how long is the blade, what color, where did it fall.

I agree MarkSteven, for a topic in this catagory to be done it needs to be well thought out, espicially on a large scale like this, on a small scale eg; a gorup of people get together and project and have to say the object that has been placed on the table in the next room. Its been done like that before. On a large scale however im not really sure how to go about it. Your main problems AtheistGod are:

Location - it has to be somewhere specific.

Object - ther has to be a way for an astral projecter to actually know what they are looking for, eg a football with a message on it or something similar, but how to do it so nobody can just go to the location and see what it says is a problem.

Good luck.

This is not my test, and I often disagree with the OP on scientific and methodological issues. Nevertheless, I think what he has proposed here is reasonable.

There probably is no one single test that will respond to all of the many and conflicting claims made by a variety of people about AP and RV.

The OP has identified which body of claims he chooses to test. The very fact that proponents of other varieties of AP or RV say that they cannot perform this task provides all of us with useful information about the phenomenon.

That harvest of information is itself a successful result from a scientific perspective.

In contrast, to say that one can do the test, but won't, because it isn't hard enough provides no information about AP and RV. However, that kind of answer is informative about other issues, although personally, I think that there was little doubt about those anyway.

i have given my guess, but no response, i have asked for a direct location, no response.

From the OP:


You can't get much clearer than that.

And yet...


Spot the mistake?

i don't think this is reasonable at all, pending the location was never given, a vague description was given of the item. i also am not worried about pm, i gave my answer for everyone to see. if i'm wrong i would still like to know the exact location to try again, if we are not allowed to try then why bother.

If your claimed abilities don't match those this protocol is designed to test, then it's going to be hard for you to take part.

I'd be happy to work out a different protocol with you, entirely seperately from this test and thread, which would fit better with your own beliefs.

Regarding PMs, the OP was very clear on both the rule and the reason. By giving your answer "for everyone to see" you disqualified yourself, since one of the controls in this approach is to avoid public guessing which would turn this into a game of 20 Questions.

who said anything about multiple guess, why should this be a one sided debate, fear of someone getting the correct answer? lol, disqualified, people can figure out their own honest answers. if they can't then i feel sorry for a lier.