I found this while looking round the intenet about and ancient dried up lake discovered on mars by nasa thought id post it

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19934328/

nice find, when is the Human mission to mars going to take place?

2030. I can't wait for a lander to discover evidence of or for life.

2030, its to far away, i hate waiting, i wonder if the space race never ended where would we be by now?, next best thing is to cross our fingers and toes hope we make contact with another species who will show/tell us have to travel in space,

You have to remember, we will be looking for life as WE know it.....Life on Mars might have been different if it ever existed.

good call.. too many people automatically clump 'life' with our (human) version of it -the life on our plant exists within it bounderies ( x amount of oxygen, x amount of heat, x amount of water etc.) because that is all 'life' on our planet has known( ET debate aside..). if life evolved -and has only known , 190 degrees F (for example), it would not fare so well on our lil home here. and probably deem us 'unliveable'.

Actually, 2030 is a projected date for an ESA designed mission. NASA is projecting closer to 2040, and the Russian proposals are looking at sometime between 2016 and 2020.

I don't consider any of these as being overtly realistic at this point in time.

Not that NASA couldn't do it. They certainly could. The Russians and ESA have no experience in manned space exploration efforts at this point (meaning exploratory missions such as Apollo). ESA hasn't even a man-rated launch vehicle (although I think they will in the next 5 to 10 years).

But the major hurdle in this effort will be the requirement for continued, intense effort by NASA and appropriate funding which is sustained throughout the next several decades.

That is always problematic, and is the one thing that cannot be controlled by NASA. That's a matter for the public to take care of, by making sure their wishes are adhered to by their government.

If that funding thing is accomplished, we'll have Orion on-orbit and operationally serving the ISS by around 2016, and will return to the Moon perhaps by 2020. A Mars manned mission won't begin being implemented until a manned presence on the Moon is established. If all goes according to plan, the 2020-2030 period will be where that lunar presence takes place. 2040 is probably a reasonable area in which a Mars mission could occur.

And somehow I feel the effort will be a joint one, probably American lead, and involving the efforts of all of the partners that currently are involved in the ISS program.

you know when we, or the US went to the moon, wasnt the rocket or module lander thing, wasnt it powered by a computer which had less computing power than a mobile phone? yet even with this limited technology we put a man on the moon 6 times, so why do we need more sophisticated technology to go back?

We don't...if all we plan on doing is re-building Apollo and repeating that mission profile again.

We often look at the LM and CM computers from Apollo and think, wow that's nothing at all compared to a common PC today. And they weren't, but they were state of the art technology at the time, specifically designed to handle the specific tasks it did, and perfectly capable of executing them.

They were built for the purpose, and they weren't available anywhere else on the planet at the time (in fact, today's computer technology is a direct descendant of those pieces of gear).

We don't need any more than what we had if all we're planning on is repeating Apollo again. However, we are decidedly not doing that. Tis' is a much more expansive program, using much more sophisticated, larger, and technically capable craft than what we used 40 years ago. We are using the computer technology available to us now in order to run it, just as we do with our Space Shuttle.

It's simple logic, really.

Lindbergh flew the Atlantic in 1927.
Why do we need anything more sophisticated than 1927 technology to do it today?

Simple.
We're not simply repeating Lindbergh's flight. If that's all we wanted to do, we could take any high wing monoplane and do it again...

yep true, but when we talk about putting a man on mars, instead of wasting time, while NASA build the ships/mission that will take us there, why not go down the apollo route for now? i mean in 1927 lindbergh flew the atlantic, why not fly the atlantic again 1927 style, it gets the job done,? men on mars can do the same as on the moon surely?

see am not clued up on space travel, but surley the Apollo program if needed could be used to go to mars, ??? is it possible?

You must try to understant the complexity of space travel.

No, Apollo couldn't be used to put a man on Mars. The reasons are many and complicated.

Going to Mars is an exceedingly complex mission, which will involve long term spaceflight and all the attendant requirements that go along with that.

There are human considerations, environment, psychological, medical, food, consumables, fuel, and incredible redundancy as well as repairability on-site of faulty components which have to be designed into a craft that will take perhaps half a dozen men and women on a journey that will require a year one way to fly.

A Mars spacecraft and crew will necessarily have to be a much more autonomous system than Apollo was. The spacecraft and crew will be executing their tasks in Mars space without real time input from Mission Control. For instance, as a Mars lander is descending, the crew must make all of the snap decisions during the course of descent that have to be made, GO-NO/GO decisions, aborts, etc...and their systems and craft will have to posess the redundancy and capability of reacting to all of those without Mission Control's direct input.

When landing on Mars, communications will take over 3 minutes to get back to Earth. If you have some sort of alarm that occurs in this critical phase, the crew would have to wait about 7 minutes to get a response out of Mission Control. I think you can see how this might not be a satisfactory arrangement!

We won't see what's happening out there for 3 to 3 1/2 minutes after it actually occurs. Thus, an extreme level of autonomy has be be built into the system.


Further, the length of the journey requires a reasonable stay time on the surface of Mars. We certainly won't be traveling for a year just to set down, spend a couple days there, and come back. We'll be talking about a month or two stay.

Apollo couldn't do any of this. In fact, Apollo didn't have the capabilities that are being designed into Constellation's lunar program.
Human exploration of Mars is as far advanced beyond Apollo as a 777 jetliner is over the Spirit of St. Louis.

And, just as you couldn't come close to doing the mission of a 777 with a 1927 Ryan monoplane, you couldn't come close to doing Mars exploration with an Apollo package.

We aren't wasting time with Mars plans. We're taking our time...because it's necessary given the vast complexity of the process.

i know but. am disappointed that after the last moon landing, we're messing about in our back yard with the ISS, it was one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind, and then have a lie down for 40 years, we should have been to mars already dont ya think? we need to push humanity to the limits because thats when we come into our element, has a Mr. B. lighyear. once said, "to infinity and beyond",.....

I completely understand your sentiment steve...
Believe me!

We've only actually been messing with the ISS for the past 10 years. The prior couple of decades were an exceedingly trying time in manned space flight, for a variety of complicated reasons.

I did indeed think we most certainly could've been to Mars by now. 40 years ago, I couldn't have imagined that in 2007, we wouldn't have even returned to the Moon! Frankly, I was von Braun-esque in my expectations for the future (that is the ONLY similarity I had to Dr. von Braun, mind you...he was an intellect that was daunting). I felt that we would've ended Apollo in mid-1974, and would've started building a station on-orbit utilizing Apollo Applications technology within a year, followed by a completely re-usable space shuttle-like vehicle within a period of maybe 3-4 years (an essential for station support and vehicle contruction on-orbit). The station was an essential to studying long term space flight potentials, and of course the scientific possibilities were far-reaching. I actually expected a return to the Moon and the establishment of a human presence and true exploratory work in the early 1980s, concurrent with our Earth orbital research program, and serious work on a manned Mars mission following a period (at that time undetermined) of long-term space flight studies.

Frankly, I expected that we would have been flying men to Mars in the latter 1990s...perhaps into the early 2000s.


However, those now seemingly naive ideas were set aside in 1971, when NASA was forced to cancel the final 3 Apollo missions and curtail Applications in a big way. Skylab was useful in its 3 manned missions to be sure, but it was only a start, which ended all too soon.


We did produce a Shuttle, of course, which, by the time it flew in 1981, had no particular mission, and which proved to be a deadly compromise to the original plans.

The following 15-16 years proved to be problematic...to say the least.

It's a matter of where the money comes from. And I'll tell you, it was tough to get it going again...even for President Reagan, who was a staunch supporter of manned space exploration and who attempted to get things going again. During his administration, he had to deal with Challenger (which he did with his nominal brilliance) and see plans for space station Freedom scrapped entirely. It was a dark period....

It's a matter of the nature of humanity. Those of us who may have been involved in space flight saw it all as a no brainer...and still do. We must go. We must explore. The benefits are manifold...it's an essential piece of human evolution. But the people who support it, and who understand are, as they always have been, a minority.


The evolution that did occur resulted in the International Space Station, which began it's existence as two humble modules back in around 1998-1999. In retrospect, this is a logical extension, and a beneficial one. The world needs to be involved in this effort, and they are, and they will be.

Thinking back...in 1969, none of us could've envisioned a brotherhood with our Russian counterparts to the extent we see it today!

I think that rather than looking back at what might have been, we should resign ourselves to the fact that what is....is what was meant to be, for whatever reason.

And look at what is!

The ISS is a massive piece of brilliance...a cooperative effort of international partners, which we're just now seeing come to its full fruition on-orbit. Think of it! We have Americans, Russsians, Frenchmen, Belgians, Germans, Brits, Canadians, and Japanese, and others, working in concert up there right now, building an incredible piece of work which we will be using for vast research in many areas of science, and we are already learning so much about so many things!

And we have seen women advance to command Shuttle missions and execute their jobs with absolute brilliance (Eileen Collins, Pamela Melroy)...and then there's Peggy Whitson, who has been brilliantly commanding Expedition 16 on-orbit for the past 8 months, presiding over an incredible expansion of the ISS in that period---these are top drawer folks.

Back in 1969...who could've envisioned that?!

Things happen as they do...for a reason.

I would suggest we not look at what could've been, but rather, at what is.
We have incredible stuff going on up there, as we speak. We have a mandate to return to the Moon, and one day, to go to Mars, and we are in development of Consellation at this moment.


Things have turned a dark corner, and NASA has been brilliant...and we now see the Russians, and the Canadians, and ESA, and JAXA (wow, man), all working together, and brilliantly to accomplish a vast and heady goal in space, and...it's working!


It's a great time to be alive, and the promise of the future is exceeding bright...!

thanks for the Brilliant replies MID, ive just been looking at the current NASA missions and the future missions and your right, "It's a great time to be alive, and the promise of the future is exceeding bright"

Quite frankly, the technology exists today to have a manned mission to the red planet. The biggest hinderence is the MONEY to finance the trip.
remember, we went to the moon many times with 1960's technology, and this is 40+ years later. There is the ability to go, but financing is the key.

If a manned mission was to go, I bet we would learn 100 fold more than what the rovers and other crafts have sent. AS: bring back material from the surface and also digging deeper than what the mechanical crafts can. Just my opinion.

Your opinion, Bulldog, is a correct one. It has always been that way.

You're welcome steve, and thanks to you for the kind comments!

You're right...
Just take a look at what we have on tap for 2008 and it's just damned exciting!

As a side note to the amazing things going on now...this came up very early this morning, and it had a really profound effect. I hadn't remembered...


At about 01:45 this morning (EDT), the third EVA of STS-123 concluded...a difficult, but successful assembly EVA at the ISS.

This was the 107th EVA in support of construction of the ISS. 107 excursions, somewhere in the vicinity of 700 hours outside. These people make it look routine, although it's most assuredly not anything close to routine.

...What it actually does is make them look like the impeccable professionals they all are...

43 years ago on this very day, 18 March, 1965, the very first EVA took place as Alexei Leonov ventured outside his spacecraft for a harrowing 12 minute spacewalk.

That was basically going outside, floating around, and hoping to get back inside and live to tell about it. The U.S. repeated the effort some short time later, and spent the next couple of years trying to master the techniques necessary to effectively work outside...sometimes coming perilously close to disaster. Finally, in November 1966, Buzz Aldrin showed that it could be done successfully on Gemini 12.

And here we sit watching this almost routine looking effort on-orbit...

We've come a very long way.

Honors to Cosmonaut Leonov, a true pioneer, and of course to Dr. Aldrin, who displayed how it was to be done.

we are already learning so much about so many things..but still remarkable journey that wait to come.
human already landed on the moon...so with 40 years experiance(and present technology)why dont US do that again to the soil of heaven(mars)
waiting mode : ON

Keep an eye on Constellation.
We're not waiting any more, the plans are in work.

maybe the next power that shakes on the money tree in washington will make sure some gets to NASA like it needs too! its been way too long since mankind has put our money where our brains are! in exploration and tech. Lets get back and reach for the Stars! DONTEATUS