Freedom to Fascism
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5355374476580235299

Very surprising film, the Federal Reserve is no more Federal than the Federal Express - LOL! Who knew!!!

What the hell - I think this might actually be the truth! Where is the law that says people have to pay income tax? Anyone?

4dplane

Did you ever notice that when you put the words "The" and "IRS" together, it spells "THEIRS?"



What at first was plunder assumed the softer name of revenue. ~Thomas Paine

VICARIOUSLY they live. While the whole world dies!

My most favorite quote is "He who wants for nothing becomes invincible".

The gangsters who think they are above the law need to face a new brand of justice.

Thomas Jefferson said 'when people fear the government, there is tyranny. When government fears the people, there is justice.'

Where is the justice now? Whose pockets are we filling when we pay $$4 a gallon? If we take Mr. Bush's stance, we are stamping out terrorism. If you look at the reality of things, we as an American people are copying and pasting our future to a screen that has zero value. We acknowledge the value of not bringing the entire world economy down. That is pretty much smoke and mirrors.

There is a tremendous battle going on between the haves and the have-nots. Whether or not that includes the entire world, who's to say? Our government will bail out the super-rich. Then they will deny everyone else of such trivial matters as - steady work, decent pay, easy access to healthcare, retirement that we can all look forward to, and most of all, safety and security within our own country. They might rule to take our guns away. I pray for that day, because then people will march to the tune of a different drummer. GW has harmed our country in irrepairible ways. We keep on being fed lies. Our country, The United States, is a shambles. We find money for war, yet we can't even feed the poor. GW is doing the same crap his father enabled 20 years ago. We deserve it because we let them. Their plan is working.

They deny Darwinism. But that is the code that they live by. Survival of the fittest. Who's going to win? The common people or the people who decide who's gonna die? Nobody really advocates murder, but if someone is attempting to murder you, it is kind of safe to say that you have every right to kill your assailant. That is the truth. Self defense. By that token, should we murder anyone who stands in the way of our personal lifestyle? If that is so, a preemptive strike against everyone who is involved with the calamity of our personal lifestyle should become warranted. GW and his poppy and all their war monkeys have decided that it is better to decimate everyone because we simply aren't as good as them. If you actually think you are better than those guys... Good luck

I assume you mean gasoline. I'm not going to defend oil companies and their corrosive effect on the US government over the past century, but you do realize that US oil price -- high as it is -- is still artificially lowered by collusion of the oil companies and government? Do you realize most Europeans pay nearly the same price per litre, which is almost twice as much as US prices?

Such rants as these might have some actual sting to them if they could manage to be informed by things other than other CT websites.

--Jaylemurph

AH yes. the truth hurts. I'm actually talking about diesel. What I'm alluding towards is how we are paying for the future of oil costs. The price of oil today is only a reflection of what it is going to cost 10 years from now. If we start talking about capitalism and the free market, we are merely talking about how we still condone the robber barons stealing our cash.

Perhaps you may be a republican. It really doesn't matter anymore. Welfare is bs. What is even worse is the fact that our country feels the need to provide an entitlement, or a certain form of welfare, to the superrich. They are worse than poor people.

Now, I know I will never change your mind murph. We are all stuck in this situation. Life is going to get worse before it gets better.

Then perhaps you ought to have said so, so we have some insight into your rant.



No. Perhaps you picked up on the anti-Big Oil tenor of that post. That would be anomalous on the part of most Republicans since the 1930s. But then again, that sort of presupposes you possess some knowledge of actual politics out of the OMG-ZOG, Illuminati, They're All Out to Get Me, uninformed CTer range.



That's a bit of a prediction. Still, don't let rationalism get in the way of your messianic streak.

--Jaylemurph

If you watch the stock markets or the federal reserve or what the government does, then you might realize that we don't give a collective crap about anyone. If your neighbor were to face bankruptcy murph, I'm sure you would be the first to bail them out.

Take for instance who the hell bailed out that Bear Stearns operation? The fed thought it would be prudent to infuse JPMorgan Chase with the funds necessary to accomplish the deal. The tune of 30 billion dollars gets a little bit lost in the scheme of things. Investment bankers are not the freemarket. If they were, they would not need public dollars to fix their own mistakes. Remember the savings and loan controversy 20 years ago? Once again, we have money for the rich. We have money for war. We just have no money to provide to the poor. What I mean by poor is anyone who decides to make less than 45,000 dollars a year. In a free market, we all have the opportunity to achieve our financial goals. That is bs. The majority of bankers do nothing more than show up to work. Whether or not they accomplish anything is quite suspect. American people are propping up the superrich by keeping their money in banks. The entire world will collaps tomorrow if we all decide that we want all of our money right now. Other peoples money? I think that misplaced trust will be our doom.

My question is: With all this financial corruption being so evident, what can be done about it?

Nothing. it's too late. There was a time that the IRS could have been kept in check, but not anymore. The Federal reserve and the IRS and above everything and answer to no one. Time to start from scratch in my opinion.

...and who said crime doesn't pay eh...


Check this out; Cor-por-a-tion........Cor-rup-tion.

(gotta lay off the espressos in the mornings)

I think there can still be something done about it, but it takes a lot of people to start shouting. This concept (the Federal Reserve), seems to be a very sticky situation because they are not taking our money by law, they are taking it by force. So to me that seems like a straightforward target to get part of our country back; this is not a conspiracy story like 911 and how did the towers fall etc ... in this fraud, there are tangible concepts to work with.

Knowledge, we should put this information into the public - Ron Paul is in this movie and he goes over the Federal Reserve like of course it is a Fraud; but why didn't he explain that to all of us when he was campaigning for 08. I did not know about the Federal Reserve history until last week; so when Ron Paul starts talking about getting rid of the IRS I said to myself like so many others "Sure Paul and how is the country going to run". Lots of us have this patriotic feeling of well of course I pay income taxes because its needed for my country - when in light of this movie I now know that’s B.S. So maybe if more people had this information they would make better voting decisions.

The problem with a simple restart method is Billions will die in the process.
4dplane

Whatever gets the job done. The human race is in serious need of an overhaul, if mass bloodshed and chaos is the only solution to get humanity back to progress.

Dats exaclly wot the elite want us to do.

Theres a very old Latin Masonic/Illuminati say'n...'Ordo Ab Chao' roughly translated 'Order Out Of Chaos'.

Another very old Latin say'n which i just made up...'Delo Da Eliteo' 'Delete the Elite'.

'Ordo Ab Chao'

That's some rough Latin, Rebel. I'd check your source for it.

--Jaylemurph

I'm pretty sure the top one's correct Jay (I'll recheck it tho)...but the latter...I just made it up (they seem toall end in 'o')


... frigg'n crazy ass Saturdays...

Heres a couple Jay...
Ordo ab Chao (?)
ORDO AB CHAO (?)

REBEL why whould dhese peorprlz do thes things?

I say, If you really care, you'd eliminate yourself from this equation by living a lifestyle revert from money . Unfortunatly most people are too lazy/selfish/weak to uptake a task .

WAIT A MINUTE...is that even possible in North America, does anyone know if a self sustained farm would have to pay property tax regardless of not using any kind of outside source?


Bleh' they'll probably end up poisoning mankind by some kind of disease...

If your talk'n corporate private elite (puppet masters) & not governments (puppets)(?)...Don't really know but if i were to take a guess; for supremacy over all (money, power & eventual total control over the masses) the usual, take ya pick...

Its called the 16th Amendment:

Ron Paul is in this movie and he goes over the Federal Reserve like of course it is a Fraud; but why didn't he explain that to all of us when he was campaigning for 08. I did not know about the Federal Reserve history until last week; so when Ron Paul starts talking about getting rid of the IRS I said to myself like so many others "Sure Paul and how is the country going to run"

If you pay any sort of attention to America, you must realize how we are collectively put in the burner. GW's policies have enabled AN ECONOMIC GENOCIDE! I hope you make more than a million dollars a year AND dutifully contribute your maximum allowance per year. We are not tithing to churches anymore. We simply tithe to a political party. If you are that daft...

The people we have elected have very dutifully proven the American Public wrong. We are looking a slow burn towards global socialism. Death is a better fate than what is really going to happen. Doom and Gloom my butt, we deserve it, because we, as a whole, are allowing this to happen.

The best part of it is... They are killing us with our own money. Thank god we have the debunkers to save ourselves.

Hey, by the way, Ron Paul is the most qualified person to run America. As far as the certain candidates go...

He is too much of a threat. Much like Obama. If the US somehow elects HRC or John McC.. We all deserve what it is that will become our new lives. Abject poverty for ALL, while stamping out terrorism abroad... Vicariously we live.... While the whole world dies.. Great? Right?

Are you equating Hillary Clinton and John McCain?



I mean, Christ, John McCain is no one's conservative, certainly...but Clinton?

Are you saying that Obama is not like Clinton...fundamentally...in just about every way?
Are you implying that Obama actually ofers something to America?

Just curious....

Yes MID I am implying that Obama is the only chance that we have to erase the last 8 years. I personally feel cheated. I went out of my way to vote against that prick. I was rewarded with my life thus far. Deride me for being an idiot. It is ok. I tried. Just like I try every day. I am barely able to make ends meet.

MID, You may be older than I am. You are pretty much not much smarter than me. I apparently possess a 147 IQ. I get kicked out of instutions because I have such a loud mouth. I think situations are bad right now. I think they will simply get worse. I actually care about my fellow person. You, MID, With all your knowledge, should quit being such a pill. Open up your mind for once. Care for your fellow person instead of placing yourself on your own personal highhorse.

Some say it wasn't properly ratified in 1913 or that article 1 of the Constitution explicitly prohibits congress from imposing income taxes.

I think I must clarify.
Vote for HRC means NAU.
Vote for McCain means NAU.
Vote for Obama means we Americans might actually feel power again in this world. I know that it is an if. It is the best chance we have though.

They are all a bunch of self-absorbed souls who would sell you and their mother for another contribution buck. Nobody in the running today cares a crap about their fellow citizens unless they have serious $ or have a serious connection with someone/thing with serious $. This is not a true democracy...if it was and "the people" cared, we'd have half of congress tossed-out on the street and we would have had a multitude of impeachments. "The people" have to start caring about their posterity (future generations). Our rights, as well as our kids, grandkids, and great grand kids, and standard of living is quickly eroding away right under our noses.

Unfortunately, many of us go to the polls to "oval in" the lesser of two evils.

Ratification history:


Constitutional amendments are there to change the constitution. If this weren't the case then prohibiton could never have been repealed and women would never have been able to vote.

I'm not disagreeing with this. I read the same wikipedia info.

Repoman, you seem to be a good "debunker" and I would appreciate your skills at debunking the CT video "Ring of Fire". It is located at http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=1969

The historical religious stuff seems hard to prove/disprove. However, the more modern stuff is what I'm interested in debunking. By the way, it is a 2hour and 23 min. flick.

Thanks, and go Army (I too was a ground pounder in the mid-late 80s).

Not really, I just have a keen sense for the obvious LOL!



I checked it out just now. Parts 1-4 are, like you said, un-debunkable (and unprovable) because they cite no sources and are 100% speculative, drawing its conclusions from historical events that are utterly unrelated save for some piece of minutia which they latch onto as if it proved anything. The second piece "Hidden Empire" tells ridiculous lies. Within the first couple minutes they say that Washington, D.C. is not part of the USA! And that the inner City of London is not part of Great Britian. They then play a 5-minute piece from a South Park episode?!?!?!

Hopefully most people aren't so twisted and/or stupid to think it "proves" anything.


Ok, I had to stop. This video is too ridiculous to even take seriously enough to track down and dispute all of its claims. It is blatently anti-semitic. It claims that Rothschild is second wealthiest man in the world and then a few sentences later says that his fortune is worth over 500 TRILLION dollars. Which they explained was over half the wealth in the world.

I'm no math wiz, but if the second wealthiest man has over half the wealth of the world then when you add in the wealth of the wealthiest man you get a sum greater than what is possible - over 100%.

I listened to the first several minutes of each portion of this movie and it is a pathetic attempt. Produced by a hate-filled person with an obvious agenda using simple video editing tools and produced on a near zero budget.

This box of horsesh!t doesn't deserve to even be examined with a critical mind because as soon as an open, critical mind views it it becomes disgusted by the fact twisting and outright lies.

Guess what people - Washington DC is part of the USA!

The second wealthiest person on earth can't have more than half of the world's wealth!

I'm sorry SoCrazes, I tried man. But I couldn't stand the stench coming from that miserable excuse of a "documentary". It gives disinformation propaganda a bad name.


AIRBORNE!

So when was the last time you spoke with your congressman? Wrote a letter to your senator? Stood for the state legislature? I think it's very easy to go and on and on about how "the people" are improperly represented, but harder to do anything besides b****. You can't really complain about your representatives being out of touch if you make no effort yourself: the Constitution assumes an active, intelligent electorate willing to agitate for their beliefs, not someone sitting on their bum.

--Jaylemurph

You are right about this in theory. But, to be fair, you must take into account that it is not possible for a citizen-statesman to have any chance to get elected unless he quits his or her job to campaign. And it is foolish to campaign in today's atmosphere unless you are a millionaire several dozen times over.

The average American has missed their chance. We have lost our country to big business.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!

HUZZAH!!

Thanks and good summary...I feel fairly stupid wasting over two hours of my life watching the entire thing. 82nd or 101st?

I wrote both my senators last week regarding the SPP (one has replied since); however, I didn't bother writing my rep...he owns a sh** load of land in C.A. and SPP would favor his assets; additionally, he isn't re-running. I talk with my state representative about twice a year personally.

I agree, we all must contact our reps, senators, etc. to let them know we care and are somewhat half-witted. Otherwise, we have no excuse to complain.

What about you?

Heh heh. I appreciate that!

I contact my Congressman frequently -- he was one of the sponsors for HR 888 and that offended me to no end. (I think any member of Congress voting 'yay' on that is openly admitting they do not have the understanding of the Constitution requisite for their job.) I have written my senators several times and attend regularly local Democratic and Progressive party meetings. In fact, I'm off to go see ex-Pres. Clinton speak in behalf of his wife tomorrow. When the Federal Marriage Act was before the Congress, I happened to work where my Congressman (different from mine now) came in every day and I bent his ear every single day, urging him to vote against it. He did, and later told me it was in large part because of the things I had said.

I think he was in large part responsible for my deeply-held belief that Americans should stop whining about the current state of government and DO something. Clearly nothing will change if all anyone does is complain (and clearly, you're not one, SC)

--Jaylemurph

That's great! I love to hear how people get involved in government. It seems that most people feel they can't change anything (most don't even vote) and I think this needs to change especially here in the U.S. where most people have internet access.

1981-1983 2nd Ranger Battalion, 1983-1984 Pathfinder 1st ACB, 1984-1985 straight leg grunt Korea 2nd ID. 1985-1987 college, 1987-1988 Korea again!, 1988-1992 82nd Airborne (went to Panama in 89 and Iraq in 91)

It's been a long time since we didn't go to the polls to do just that!

I am amazed at just how much a total lack of substance can be parlayed into "the only chance we have to erase the last 8 years". The media has indeed done its job.

What would you erase?

You've been rewarded with your life thus far "for voting against that prick". Do you mean President Bush...the prick?

I take that to mean that you went out of your way to vote for Al Gore and John Kerry.
I don't think that took too much effort, after all, it's simply a matter of going in and voting for them.
Was your life in jeopardy if you hadn't made those choices?


No one's deriding you for being an idiot.
I have no idea where you conjure that idea from.
However, your last two sentences above...



...seem to indicate whining. Sour grapes at perhaps not being able to attain to what you perhaps think you should have attained to by now, as well as the all too common mechanic of laying blame on someone else...in this case, perhaps the President of the United States??

That's what it sounds like. However, I shall concede that I have no idea of your personal circumstances, so I certainly place no judment upon your statement or your character. I can only say, I've been there and done that...I've failed, and I've succeeded. I've lived paycheck to paycheck, and I've lived a bit better.

However, I did all that myself, and no President had any effect on my success or my failures. That was all me.





That is a very difficult conclusion to arrive at, based upon nothing but a short post, which you seem to be emotionally reacting to.



Oh please, let's can the IQ nonsense. I got one of those 140s IQs too. I found it rather amusing to discover that.
It's one of the most meaningless numbers assigned to a person.
I've known plenty of so-called "smart people", with high IQs, who are abject morons. It doesn't mean squat.

Having a loud mouth and getting kicked out of institutions (apparently because of it) is not related to IQ, snooze. It's related to having a big mouth--a big mouth which is apparently not conducive to your existence in said institutions. People with high IQs, and people with lesser IQs are equally possessed of big mouths that get them in trouble.




Based upon what I see in your post, you see yourself as being personally diminished, and unable to succeed, by a President of the United States. Further, it appears that your care about other people is associated with the idea in your mind that perhaps they too are affected by the same thing--everything seems bad for you, and there must be others similarly affected--and all because of President Bush.

For some people things have gotten worse. For many others, things have gotten better. In all of those circumstances, personal responsibility was the key...not some President!





What's that mean?
Perhaps because I asked you a question ...



...which was in response to this!



...you come off with all this high horse crap and the whining about just making it, and the revelation that you're a big mouth with a high IQ, and this concept that I don't care about my fellow men?

What the hell, snooze?

The fact is, I am very concerned with my fellow men. I have been for decades. I have watched this country diminish itself in the comfort and convenience brought about by the intense efforts and accomplishments of a prior generation, and at the same time watch an abject lack of common sense, personal responsibility, and laziness invade people's minds and hearts because they haven't had to do anything really difficult in their lives. Comforts have increased, educational standards have diminished, imagination has withered, and America has fallen in several ways from where it once was--from a nation that could do, and did do...and a nation that realized that its citizens were the ones who did it all--to a nation of complainers and whiners who are looking for their government to provide for their every need.

And today, we actually have political movements that want to maintain that paradigm, and actually intensify it. That is of extreme concern to me. The fate of America is at stake when such nonsense exists.

That IS concern for my fellow man.

We have an election coming up which is not quite so pivotal as it might have been, since the mechanics of the silly American political system have engineered yet another situation in which we must necessarily choose between the lesser of two "evils", rather than a clear choice between a benefit and a lesser America.

But one thing is for certain, Clinton or Obama (and there is no fundamental difference) spells only a re-instatement of a system Jimmy Carter put in place in 1976, and which reduced this country from the idea of American primacy and ability, to the idea of appeasement. The largest inflation in American history, and some of the worst times we'd ever seen...back before you were born, came from a liberal President who made life tough on everyone. Still, I made it.

That set the stage for a real improvement under Reagan.

I hope that we don't have to fall victim to electing another liberal Democrat and support him or her with an equally liberal Democratic Congress, so we have to live through four more years of that hell, in order to see the light once again.

Not /every/ election, but for many, the good folks at the Campus Crusade for Cthulu run their deity as a presidential candidate. Their slogan? "Why go for the lesser of two evils?"

--Jaylemurph

Ok, I have spent a few days in my spare time searching, learning and pondering this question: "Where is the law that says people have to pay income tax?" Here is some of what I have found:

This question and your statement Repoman have been asked and stated a 1000 times on the web, someone quotes the movie etc... and asks about the legality of the income tax and someone then states the 16 Amendment is the answer.

Well if it was that easy, I would not have posed the question in the first place. The fact is, this answer is completely short sided of how US federal law works (not that I am an expert but hear me out...). The constitution is not read and obeyed in the simple manner of a general US citizens like myself using common English to decipher what it means and how it should be enforced.

Congress, however, empowered by the constitution, creates laws called Statutes that are then converted into Regulations by the "Secretary of the Treasury" that are then executed as federal law - these laws called the "federal register" are the official rules of what is expected of every US citizen. So not just the Constitution, but “with” the Statutes and Regulation is the correct way to answer this question.

Example,


Obviously the types of arms are defined in the US Statute’s and Regulation’s if not; then people would have the right to own nukes, rail guns, bio bombs etc …

So just as The Second Amendment is compiled in to Statutes and Regulation that directly state what constitutes an Arm and what does not, so does the 16 Amendment in regards to who is taxed.

Let’s break the 16th down for a moment and read it as if nothing about its words are described in the Statutes and Regulations:

“The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes […]”
Ok, these people, “Congress” can collect taxes on incomes – but by whom??? Citizens of Canada who have nothing to do with the US? China? Etc…

“ […] from whatever source derived, […]” – o sh** really, from “whatever” again like a Canadian citizen's labor and interest from within his/her own country, or the poor saps in the United Arab Emirates!

"[…] without apportionment among the several States […]" – I believe this has to do with how the taxes can be spent on each state. In this case, however, one state can have a lot and one state can have a little.

“[…] ,and without regard to any census or enumeration.” – no clue, anyone?

The only way to answer this question is if we understand the Statutes and Regulations!
So who is up for chapter 1 of US Statutes Title 26 / Subchapter N of chapter 1 Title 26... and some insight into this question!?

Theft by Deception
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7521758492370018023

Good luck, it hurts but a path to the truth is there…
4dplane

By whom?
I think you may be trying to say, collect taxes from whom? Generally speaking, if your earn income in the United States, you are general subject to U.S. income taxes.




From whatever source that one subject to the tax makes money from.



Or, no state can necessarily have any.



The rate of taxation cannot be based upon the population of the state in which the subject works in.

Quite an impressive resume. Thank you for serving me, my family, and the rest of the country.

I second that, Repoman...every word.

I'll echo that myself -- both my brother and father were in the 82nd, so I always have respect for soldiers.

--Jaylemurph

"NO MID", you and I cannot dictate what the 16th amendment means! It is subject to the US Statutes and Regulations and this is the only way to understand it. Show me MID, sorry but your word is not good enough; in fact no one's is; there is a logic to the Constitution with the Statutes and Regulations that can be understood by every average human being on the planet - if not then that alone is a disgrace to me and all of my fellow Americans. It would mean our justice system is a joke and all laws are subject to gross discrepancies; allowing the government to do whatever they want. Right?
Without Law being logical, than a justice system is just a TV show where people are subject to real punishment.

MID, for all of you hot air I am surprised you argue a topic with such blind faith - you have never read or understood title 26 and its corresponding regulations but you are sure that we must pay income taxes.
Why?
4dplane

My post wasn't an argument. It was a simple interpretation of what the law says...it doesn't take much to see what it says.

I am sure we must pay income taxes because it explicitly says that the Congress may levy taxes in the Constitution of the United States. It's a no brainer.

I am not, nor have I any wish to address the complexity of tax law. It's a nightmare and should be reformed radically.

You think that perhaps Title 26 implies that we don't need to do what the Constitution says we are obligated to do by law? OK, fine. I suggest you take it up with your Congressman or Senator.

Otherwise, the "hot air" is merely that which is emitting from your lungs....

It never ever will be reformed MID, at least not in any foreseeable future...
say in about the next 150-200 yrs maybe

-------------------------

Governments have been dragging their sorry asses over tax-reform for generations passing it on to the next government of the day & so on, allowing the mega-rich & powerful to slowly blood-suck the system & countries for that matter dry along the way. Around election time you'll always here the puppets governments use tax-reform as their '#1 tool' to masturbate the people for votes, meanwhile back here in reality, very little if anything is ever done once in power. In my humble opinion. It's all a fu*cking joke...

REBEL:

I think your humble opinion may well be the fact of the matter!