Keep an open mind here...

In the words of Obama's Pastor; there are lots of angry black americans. They are angry that they are not getting their fair share from the US Govt, they are angry that they are still being discriminated against, they are angry that the US Govt (White Govt) doesnt care about them. (Ghettos, Projects, Hurrican Katrina Response, ect...)

Who will they blame if a Black Man is president? Can they still blame the President? Can they now say the US Govt doesnt care about them?

Think about it, the end of racial tension against middle class/lower class black america and the US Govt.


Now who thinks it's possible that the "powers that be" have put this rather young/inexperienced senator in position to win the presidency for the sole purpose of "shutting up" black Americans?


This is not meant to be a racist thread, actually quite the oppossite...If this offends anyone please let me know and I will delete it, I know how threads that have anything to do with race can get blown out of proportion.

Some black people will b**** endlessly if he ISN'T elected as president, and call out some wacky white rule putting him down...

Because its ALL about his skin colour, not his weak policies for a position of power.

I think he has the charisma and likeability to do some good as a forigen ambassador (like condi, but not under the influence of DICK)... but he wouldn;t make a strong president in America;s current situation.

Just my 2 CND cents.

Simply put, I don't think an election of Barack Obama will ease any racial tensions that exist in America.

You'll still have both black and whites (and all other races) complaining about certain things.

The best way to prove that racism is really over is for a presidential candidates skin colour to not be an issue at all.

That'll be the day.

I've already seen comments such as "If Obama doesn't get nominated, then I'm voting for McCain" spring up in various places on the Internet.

To me, that shows the polarisation of the Democratic party. I don't think it matters which candidate wins - I expect McCain to be president, whatever the result of the Democratic Nomination. If Obama wins, then I expect him to be brutally savaged by a press, that so far, has by and large given him an easy ride, while if Clinton wins, I expect that the "Anyone but Hilary" crowd will hand McCain the presidency.

Ironically, I think thats the worst way to "prove" that racism is over. Why? Because you're electing someone based on their skin colour still... The best way to prove that racism is over is to just stop taking someones race into account!

What better way to prove that racism is over, than to elect a black President?

End Affirmative Action, a government enforced program of racial discrimination.

You could also kill all racists. I'm sure that'd end racism. Just my thoughts, though.

This seems like a pretty poor reason to elect a president. I prefer basing a decision on experience, political philosophy, voting record in the senate, etc.

To vote as proof of discrimination ending, we must then elect a Vietnamese, American Indian, Athiest, etc.

Even if Obama is elected as president it won't end racism. Yes blacks will complain about whites in congress, the senate, the judiciary. Whites will complain about the black president. Racism isn't visible at the top level but on the streets and the only way to end racism is to change the way people think.

Regardless of who gets in Obama or Clinton, it will be a small step forward for some of the under classman of US Society. Too bad it will continue to be the wrong step for all of us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwTZ2xpQwpA...feature=related

Speaking as a "Black" person, The best way to prove racism is over is when my fiancee (Who's White {she's in the avatar}and as of July of this year will be my wife) points to me as her Fiance/husband, she doesn't get the "Gasp! He's Black!"

Thats not just racism Redtail, it's also straight out prejudice...ya know, them people with narrow shallow & tunnel vision minds. Best wishes to you & the Mrs' in July.



In a great nation such as America built on & from it's diversity of races & cultures as well as being the democratic freedom capitol of the world, you'd think it wouldn't or shouldn't be an issue at all of what race/color of president is running the country.

I can't forsee racism ending if and when a black President is elected...It would be wonderful, but with our government and their ethnic backgounds, it doesn't sound plausible...When we have a murder, rape, assault over here the first questions asked are "Was the victim white/black"...Was the assailant white/black"...After that it's a complete field day for the media, and if the answer is black to both questions then we have the Al Sharptons and his followers involved to add to the fire...But what a nice thought...no more racism, no more yelling that it was a race crime, which seems to be the norm over here....Right now in New York, the trial is going on with the killing of Sean Bell, the man who was gunned down by 50 bullets, the night before his wedding...The officers involved are white, black, hispanic, changing stories, forgetting what happened...And right in the middle of Sean Bell's family is Al Sharpton, who says he is there to see justice....I can only see it getting worse, and I wish I didn't feel that way......It's our future genrations that I'm more worried about..

i think the general idea still stands...


If a black person gets killed in a relatively white neighborhood people scream rascism and civil rights.

If a white person gets killed in the ghetto or a generally black neighborhood, they are just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Just my grain of salt though.

I think you are dead on in your assessment, Tiggs.

And as to the idea regarding race...

I think there are much more important problems to think about vis-a-vis this election.
If Obama, or Clinton happen to be elected President, and they have a concurrent majority in Congress, I think the problems that will evolve from that will far and away overshadow any racial issue, and may in the long run exacerbate any racial tensions that may exist.

When your taxes go up, and the price of gasoline and fuels continues to rise, and the economy sours under the imposition of larger and larger government, and health care deteriorates to levels not yet seen in this country, and a potential humanitarian disaster takes place in Iraq...and all of this is due to the actions of the first black American President, well...think about it!

It will, of course, not be due to anything remotely having to do with race (a Clinton Presidency will result in the same things). It will be due to the actions of a far left wing President who is naive and inexperienced, but knowing the mechanics of this country as I do...you can bet your bottom dollar that the race issue will surface. If it's Clinton who manages to wreck things...the gender issue will come to the fore in certain circles as well.



In the words of Obama's pastor, there's a clear indication that he's one of them...one of the radical ones. Further there is a clear indication of some profound social difficulties, and a profound disassociation between what he should be talking about and what he is talking about.

Additionally, Obama's own adherence to this man's church is very, very disturbing....

Hmm. so when G.W.B. takes office in 2000 the national budget is under control and the economy is doing great; eight years later he leaves the country in complete shambles; and your telling us it’s going to be the next presidents fault! Ok, that's how it will be spun in the media right? But the truth by raw facts, like the worth of the American dollar now vs. eight years ago (Need I say more!), shows how the person in charge currently is the one to blame.

Just a question what if they don't want to end racism? It's possibly the whole divide and rule thing again.

I read an article in a UK broadsheet newspaper The Daily Telegraph that Obhama was infact a distant cousin of the republican vice president Dick Cheney so In my eyes they are all the same, apologies if that is generalizing too much for some.

Not following your US election at all, but I also have read (and not saying this is true) that Hilary Clinton was picked to win the US Presidential election sometime ago, when she went back to her two timing husband when he began his nomination, so we'll have to wait and see on that one.

Yes, but it’s not just racism and "they" don't really control racism. It’s more like they work with our stupidity and exploit our tribal / religious tendencies to their benefit. Meaning all of Americans, black, white and everything in-between could rise up together and demand what is right and what would benefit the masses; like no “income taxes”; but we are robbed everyday and instead of going after the people that are stealing from us, we go after each other for the scraps they toss our way.

I hear you completely.....well said.

I'm sorry, but you're spewing mainstream media nonsense.
It is impossible for me to believe that anyone doesn't realize that we were in a recession when President Bush took office in 2001. The economy was no where close to where it became under Bush (one of the largest economic upturns seen in decades)...and all that despite the economic effects of 9-11-01.

...and when has the national budget ever been "under control"?





...lets try this again:

I said:



I am telling you that all of that which is listed above...will indeed be the result of a liberal left wing President, be it Clinton, or Obama, and a concurrent liberal left wing Congress.

The issue was actually adressing race...but of course, that'll have absolutely nothing to do with it, and it isn't at all important.

President Bush isn't perfect. No one is. But he has taken measures to actually grow the economy, as did Reagan and Kennedy (and there are only a few things which a President can do that actually will have an effect on the economy--nominal market fluctuations have nothing to do with the President), and as in those cases, it worked. He is limited by a liberal Congress in what he can do vis-a-vis energy independence, and actually realizes that the free market system is essential for growth and that nationalized health care will be a very bad thing. He's also steadfast regarding the effort in Iraq and against terrorism, and on a strong military as a key to peace (which it always has been and always will be for the forseeable future).

Clinton and Obama, do not realize these things. If they gain power, and the Congress is retained, you will see things happen in this country that haven't happened since the Carter administration...and none of that was good.

Well...


I think she's actually been around with the sole idea of becoming President since she was first lady. That's why she ran for Senator from New York. It was transparent, despite her denials of any aspirations at the time (it's been her sole aspiration).

She wasn't picked, per-se, by anybody but herself. Up until recently, she was the "shoe-in" for the Democratic nomination, and viewed herself as entitled to it. It's her turn, and she's put up with enough to get there. I'm sure she still does see herself as entitled to it.

However, it is now looking like her chances of even being nominated are slimming down rapidly...the fight in the Democratic party is just getting revved up, and I can only hope it continues until Convention time, when, if she does what I think she and the "Clinton machine" will do, we'll watch the Democratic party at least semi-self destruct.

With the exception of rising taxes--assuming you don't consider rising interest payments on the national debt a deferred tax--your description fits the events under the current presidency perfectly. It is fascinating to see the spinning begin this early to pin these events on the next president.



Neither Clinton nor Obama are even remotely close to being far left. Neither support "nationalized health care," neither oppose the free market, neither are weak on terrorism, neither oppose energy independence, and indeed neither will "wreck things." It's true that both stand to be considerably better on domestic issues than Mr. Bush ever was and both will take a much different tack on foreign policy than he has. I believe you are in the minority: most Americans don't want a third Bush term, which is exactly what John McCain offers.

These events haven't happened yet. However, the potential for them to happen will be markedly increased.
No one's saying the Bush administration hasn't over spent itself. No one has ever said Bush was a fiscal conservative. He isn't truly conservative at all, and that has gotten him some criticism.

However, a humanitarian disaster hasn't happened in Iraq yet. It will, given the appropriate pre-mature Democratic withdrawal. This is not spin, it is fact.

Gasoline prices are high because of idiotic restrictions on gasoline companies put in place and enforced by far left environmentalist lobbies and Congresses. The President can't do anything about that...but a Liberal President will certainly make things worse, given a concurrent liberal majority in Congress. That too hasn't happened yet.

The American health care system, despite its flaws, is the best on the planet. People flock here for treatment because of the fallacies of socialized medicine. Want to see care levels decrease? That hasn't happened yet...but the potential is profoundly evident.




Where have you been?





Oh, there's no doubt about that...



I think most conservatives don't want a third Bush term...nor do they necessarily want a McCain Presidency.
The truly adequate candidates for the Republicans have, either by personal reasons of compelling nature (Thompson), or via the all too common collusion (Romney), begged out of the race.

One thing's for certain...a Clinton or Obama Presidency is far less desirable than McCain.

Iraq was number two on Foreign Policy's Failed State Index last year. It's one of the most unstable and violent places out there, it has tremendous issues with displaced persons and human flight, there are large human rights issues, a dysfunctional security apparatus, and so on. All courtesy of the current administration.



This is one of the few areas where McCain often shows himself to be reasonable. He opposes drilling in ANWR and he supports cap-and-trade schemes to combat climate change. The center is moving left on these ones.




That's a myth, if we're talking about the care it gives to its citizens. Numerous other countries regularly get higher marks for their health care systems than we do.




I'll repeat: Neither Clinton nor Obama support "nationalized health care," neither oppose the free market, neither are weak on terrorism, neither oppose energy independence, and indeed neither will "wreck things.

The following chart shows the public debt (in 2007 dollars) from 1940 through the estimated 2008.
http://www.nationalpriorities.org/Federal+...ollars+2007%29+

The following chart shows the gross federal debt as a percentage of the gross domestic product (GDP).
http://www.nationalpriorities.org/Federal+Debt+1940-2008

4dplane

I agree.
No need to prove racism is a thing of the past by having a black President. Michael Jordan is a perfect example of the color of the skin does not matter anymore, it's you as a person.
The whole world been a fan of him.

We would have already had a black president for years but he didn't want the job. General Powell said thanks but no thanks..

A smart man. I know of few other jobs where you can be blamed for so much while having the ability to change so little.

If racism was really over, we wouldnt even notice that he was black. Think about it.

Who would be the judge of that? Maybe just kill all stupid people.
Are you ready to go?????????????

What better way to prove that racism isn't over than for 90% of black people to vote for a president just because he is black.

If the black demograqphic broke down the way every other demographic broke down then Hillary would have already been nominated. She is losing because of racism.

If Obama wins the nomination, I will vote republican for the first time in my life.

Wow, I see that no one bothered to even the original post...OF COURSE RACISM ISN'T OVER....thats the point.....but now corporations and powers that be that control the US Govt can claim thats its over....GEEEZ, I feel I'm explaining things to a 3rd grader....

LOL no kidding

I grew up in a town where there were hardly any black people. Because of that, I grew with no racism whatsoever. There were no black people or white people, there were only people. I never thought of a person by their skin color until much later on in life, and even then I thought it was silly to do so.

It has been my experience in life that black people are much more racist than white people, but my experiences may be a narrow view. I had a black friend of mine that I have known for 15 years try to tell me that there are differences between blacks and whites, and he went into a long list of things that he thought were our differences. How stupid is that? There are only differences because you want to be different. We are all human beings. We all have the same genetic code; we are the same race, the human race. Black people go out of their way to separate themselves from the rest of the population. We have our arms open; ready to accept them yet they will not fully assimilate. I have no idea why.

My friend and I continued our discussion and he asked me a question that I could not believe. He said that since we were good friends he could count on me to give an honest answer to this when others would lie to him. This was the question. "When you are alone with other white people do you ever sit around and talk down about black people and call them n******? I couldn't believe what I was hearing! Apparently a lot of blacks think we sit around in secret all white gatherings calling black people names, making fun of them, and trying to keep them down as a people. How ridiculous. I have only heard a white person use the N word maybe 4 times in my life even then it was only during very heated circumstances such as a physical altercation. I asked him if he ever sits around making fun of white people with his black friends. He said yes, it was something he sometimes did. He admitted that he didn’t take part in the white bashing as much as some of his friends, who were very vocal in putting down whites, talking about how we are different, and talking about how we oppress them as a people.

Here is a prime example of what I am talking about. Have you ever watched comedians on comedy central? White comedians talk about all sorts of things, but almost never talk about the differences between races. Black comedians on the other hand almost always talk about the differences between black people and white people. Some black comedians talk about nothing else. There whole 30 minute routine is about our differences. Why do they dwell on our differences?

Perhaps my view is a bit askew because of where I grew up with no racism, but I live in a big city now that is much more diverse and I still don’t encounter my white friends being racist. I have never had a single white friend who was racist. I have never known any white person who has purposely oppressed a black person in any way. I have never heard anyone that I have ever known as a close friend talk bad about blacks.

Will Obama being president prove that racism is over? Probably not, simply because the racism that exists today is irrational, and unwarranted. No amount of proof can put an end to an irrational mindset. In my mind racism ended before I was born, but some people are holding onto the past for whatever reason. Once again, I may just be ignorant due to where I grew up, and where I live. Maybe there are a bunch of hardcore white racists somewhere in the country that I am not aware of.

I am beginning to think the only thing that will truly fix it will be the evolution of our species. Eventually the human race will all be one color as we continue to cross breed. That will take a long time though, and I hope it happens long before then.

I am a white person voting for Obama. My skin color should not matter, and it does not matter to me.

Sad, funny, but true!



Chris Rock is the best.

Nothing new but...Let's face it, If Obama were white, he probably would never have been considered for president with his credentials. He's be just another young party-line liberal Senator that can speak pretty well. It's kind of funny how it took so long for the media to bring out the angry rantings of his racist pastor... The Clintons let him get just far enough to wipe out the other candidates. America will not elect someone who prescribes his family to that race bating church of his-he's all done. With that backround he should have never made it out of the starting gates.

Also, If Hillary weren't the wife of arguable the most talented politician the world has ever seen, then she too would never have been considered. So in a way she is only being considered because she is a woman. She is the wife of the Slickest President ever- not just another Senator...

Unfortunatley, many idealistic and/or ignorant people will vote for her only becasuse she is a woman and/or Bill's wife. Of course, to give credit, Bill could talk the cows off a meat wagon and make the butcher think he was getting a better deal... and with the Contract with America - republican congress, he did at the time 'reign' in spending a bit, including gutting our national defense budget. But, let's not forget we also had a huge dot.com bubble which created so much temporary income and wealth that revenues increased at the same time, which helped balance a still very large budget.

Now, if we truly don't vote for anyone because of race or gender you'll have no choice but to vote McCain- middle of the road policy guy who doesn't make either side happy. Hopefully the old billy-goat can keep it together for 4 more years until we get a chance at another set of better candidates.

So the only way not to be a sexist or a racists is to vote for McCain - Wow, your sneeky ...

Not offensive, just naive.

To elect a person to the presidency because of his race, as you here advocate, is in and of itself a racist act.

Harte