A few days ago I had asked myself 'why aren't there more stories of people being killed by paranormal entities?'. Well, I came up with there aren't any because if and when they do happen the relatives of the deceased either don't recognize what actually happened or if they do they are so devastated and in a state of such disbelief that they don't tell anybody. The entity, whatever it was, gets away to claim another victim possibly or moves on. Can you imagine what a daunting task it would be to find those people who are related to someone killed by a paranormal entity? Or the entities themselves? Does this make any sense?

Edit: maybe there is some sort of misunderstanding but I'm talking more about something actively killing someone not just getting a heart attack from fear.

Yes, it makes sense to me. I have been so frightened by an "entity" that I was actually asking myself, How do people live through this? My heart beat so hard and so fast that i wondered how I could live through it. Had I died of a heart attack during that time, nobody would've known why. I think it is more common than we know.

It does make sense. There are no statistics regarding lets say, someone having a heart attack from seeing spirits or being plagued by one. IMO human spirits, residual hantings etc cannot harm you, but maybe catch you off guard and shock you. The only entity with that kind of power, and intellect is the Demonic. They do have the capability of killing someone, and can use one of many methods in doing so. But again, there is not much documented regarding deaths except during Exorcisms, and those are rare. I am aware that during a Demonic haunting, family members can become myseriously ill leading to death, but that cannot be proved. Another one is suicide that can result from that same kind of haunting, as the person feels either they have lost their mind, or lose their free will and give into the influence of a Demonic. No one truly knows, which is always why I try to put information out there, otherwise how would people know what might be going on in the life and home? If someone doesnt talk about it, nor gets help, how would we know their cause of death, as its not documented ahead of time that the person was in crisis with a dark entity?.Good question..JN

I agree ((GIN))..JN

HAHA!! Yesssss, the heart pounding, frog in the throat, hearing your heart beat through both of your ears..and that's all you hear.. Geez.. I've had one scare me so bad, I do believe it took years from my life... I have wondered too, if I wasn't in such decent cardio shape would I have dropped with a heart attack..<?> I really don't want to find out anytime soon. :}

Exactly, been there done it..There were times I thought I would simply collapse from fear alone and die. I dont want to ever feel that way again either..JN

Heck I know, i laugh about it now, but really and truly, It's no laughing matter..

I think the only one in recorded history to take responsiblity for a death, was the The Bell Witch. It was the most famous of hauntings of a spirit that made it's presence known audibly.

I wonder how many people die every year falling down the stairs after being startled or scared (I guess we'll never know)

LOL I dont think I will laugh about it, till I am in a nursing home on Thorazine, while drooling and eating baby food..

Makes sense since the Bible says not to fear him who can kill the body...the implication being the Devil is able to kill, so why not his minions as well?

I don't think it's possible for a entity to kill a living person. Of course there is a chance of a heart attack resulting from being scared to death, but we can not attribute that to the entity.

Here is the only way a entity could kill a living person. Possession.


The spirit, demon, entity would have to possess another living person, and use that living person to kill another living person. Son of Sam, John Hinckly, etc. Of course this gets explained as mental illness, and in fact it could be. But it does provide a means and method for a entity to strike.

What is the punishment for killing the Living? Must be the deepest of Hell...and who gives this Permission to kill the living?

NO we will never truly know, not in this lifetime anyway..JN

A demon can not directly kill you. They have their own set of rules and limitations as well. Can they physically harm you? Yes, but they do not have the permission to kill. However, here is where it gets into a gray area, a demon can't directly kill you but it can indirectly kill you. Suicide is an example that was mentioned earlier in this thread, in a possession they can use the individual to kill another, or influence murder. They can scare you and have you fall down or have a heart attack, and they can make you ill and other complications can occur resulting in your death. But a demon does not have permission to in a sense put their finger on you and kill you, unless you give it to them or if God gives it to them, which he would NOT. In a sense you can think of this whole situation like a court room, there are loop holes everywhere, but knowing your rights can save your life.

Haha demons. Guess life never is fair isn't it

Weren't you and your friend banned before? Looks like some people never change.

What makes you think I was banned?

Sending you a PM, rather not be an ass and bring up something for everyone to see.

I guess you already did

Well now, let's look at the most recent and abundant deaths related to spiritual beings. Well that would have to be in Medievil days when creatures that are still not know to roam this planet. We would be talking about dragons in that sence. These giant beasts killed many and ruled over lands. No they are not a myths. They just dissapered. Where did they go? And if they're still around why can't we see them. The sight of spiritual beings has gone down. People in the past were able to see every type of demon, ghost, or what ever it may be. It's just like if you eat only one thing for a month. It can be worst tasting thing you have ever put in your mouth. But after a whlie you stop noticing it. This is what happened with our sight to see the spiritual beings that are still standing right infront of us. And then the whole, "if I can't see it I don't believe in it' thing that people say. Well you better believe in it, because it doesn't taking see it for it to hurt you. Ebola proves that. All I can say is that it still happens even though people still can't tell a reason why it happened. And just because you don't hear of anything related of it doesn't disprove it.

P.S. Dragons would just be the best example I could find because they're widly know through out history and other cultures. And yes they are demons!

Oh and. Ghosts can't touch or harm anything on our side of the plains. So beside scaring someone to death. That would be the only way I can see one killing a human. Demons on the other hand can be harmful.

I agree with who said they have no permission for killing or doing any grave harm, even in cases of possession.

There is an interesting case that happened in the nineteenth century, in a community called Morzine, and related in the Spiritist Magazine of Paris (Revue Spirite) of April 1863:

...The first symptoms of the epidemic of Morzine happened in March 1857, with two girls who were about ten years old. In November of the same year the number was 27 and in 1861 the number reached up to 120 cases...

"We observed, during the crisis, an extraordinary insolence, which goes beyond any limit, in little girls that, out of this state, are sweet and timid."

From another person we have the following testimony:

"It was generally observed, says Dr. Constant, that once outside of the community, the patients only rarely had crisis.”

"One day, the mayor, who was accompanying me, was surprised by a patient who, violently, threw a rock against his face. Almost at the same moment, another patient went to his direction armed with a large piece of wood, also with the intention to beat him. Seeing her coming, he showed the iron pointed end of his walking stick, threatening to punch her body if she continued. She stopped, dropped the piece of wood and became satisfied to only blaspheme against him."

"Notwithstanding the races, the jumps and the violent and disorderly movements of the patients, despite the hits to which they submit themselves, their terrors and ramblings, it’s not mentioned any suicide attempt or serious accident with any of them. Therefore, they don’t fully lose consciousness and at least remains the instinct of conservation."

"If at the beginning of a crisis a woman holds her child in her arms, often a devil less nasty than the one who will work in her says: 'Let this child: he (the other devil) would harm it.' The same happens when they sometimes have a knife or any other instrument that might cause an injury..."

Source (unfortunately in French): Revue Spirite April 1863 (1.38MB) - Étude sur les possédés de Morzines - Les causes de l'obsession et les moyens de la combattre - Quatrième article (Studies about the possessed of Morzine - Causes of obsessions and means to combat them - Fourth Article).

Dr. Constant was not an adept of Spiritism and so, his testimony can't be regarded to the Spiritist influence. Kardec only transcribed his testimony.

Hundreds of cases happened in the same place and no serious injuries happened. This case is very similar to others related, with the difference that this reached a large number of people at the same time and place. But the rules remain the same: they could injury someone, but they are not allowed to do it.

I also agree with who said they could inspire someone to kill a person, but the person himself could morally resist. If he doesn’t do it it’s because he himself conscientiously agreed with the crime. No one can excuse for being induced by bad spirits, because everyone has his discernment, and in a case like that the discernment is not suppressed.

Best Regards.

why do you people say that demons have no power/permission to kill humans?

They have the power. But as Jaida stated, "A demon can not directly kill you. They have their own set of rules and limitations as well.". A rough analogy, but think of a vampire? It cannot enter your house unless you give it permission to. It can physically harm you, but not when you are in your home and you do not let it in. The vampire is the demon, you are you, and the house is the shield that protects you from it. Except, you do not give it permission to enter your 'home', the thing that does is El Diablo if you will. Or some higher ranking demonic figure of hells hierarchy.

I think the only way an entity can kill a person, is by causing that person to get so scared, they have a heart attack (which necessarily isn't EXACTLY the entity killing you, so I don't know if this counts), possession, or poltergeist activity. You know, throwing things all over the place and stuff like that. I'm saying that what if the poltergeist happened to throw a knife at you? That'd probably kill you. Though I've never once heard of someone getting hit by an object being thrown by a poltergeist, but I'd say it's possible.

Yes, I believe those are the only ways encounters with them lead to death. What really gets me going is if they can throw stuff, can they throw it at you? Maybe their intentions do not include hurting you, only to warn you to get away.

Yes but what I want to know is how do you know about those rules and who made them?

yes, but if they can throw stuff in the air, perhaps they can also lift a person and throw him/her out of the window/door.
At least it's theoretically possible, if we assume deomons/spirits exist.

We know about them through experience. Obviously if they have the opportunity and they do nothing - something is up. When many experiences happen and are reported, fictional or not - there some that are real. So that adds to the suspicion that they have limitations, or simply do not attack. No one knows everything, mate. Who rules them for sure is something evil, Satan?

Agree..Their main agenda is to not kill humans, but they can certainly do so, if they choose. They can throw a 300lb man down a flight of stairs or off a balcony. They can shake a 3 story home. People seem to misunderstand the power these monsters have. NEVER underestimate to abilities of the Demonic entity. They have no rules, but they break every rule of God and humanity. They would just as soon kill you on a dime but they feed off terrorizing, fear, angery and depression, as that seems to give them more pleasure.IMO..JN

Experience: it's not known any case of killing by spirits, unless deaths by heart attack by scaring.
Literature: other spirits have already said in many occasions this is not permited.


God.


They have power and sometimes they have the will. But they are not permited to do it by other good Spirits, which are under the orders of God (or any other kind of chief you can imagine). These other spirits avoid the fatal accidents.

Best Regards.

I must disagree with the good spirits interacting with Demonics aspect of your post. A Demonic rarely interacts with human spirits, and also they have known to keep Human spirits held back, as hostages so to speak. The laws are governed by God and of course Demonics dont follow any rules or laws...JMO...JN

Hi,

Maybe I didn't expressed so well. I didn't mean they interact. The good spirits just keep the bad actions of the bad spirits under control; they just limit what they can do. The bad spirits don't even need to know about their presence, and in most cases they are aware. The good spirits only interact with the evil to try to reconduce them to the light, and they go away when the evil spirits are still deaf to their advices.

Spirits are spirits; doesn't matter if they are good or evil. When we talk about rational beings it doesn't make sense to talk about kinds of rationalities. Our bodies make us different, but don't make our intelligences different. The soul is the source of our reason and, in this base, we are all potentially equal, because there is no limits to the thoughts. The difference is only that some spirits use badly their free will, normally by inexperience, while other use better.

So, every intelligent being of the universe can be considered a brother of us, and is our obligation, before God, to treat them as brothers, independently on how much good or evil they are. We mustn’t be fair only with the good, but also with the evil. When a haunting is allowed to happen there is always a reason. It can be a prove for who suffers it; or it can be a punishment for any past fail. But at the same time it can be converted in an opportunity to reconduce a soul to God; to try to recover what was lost. Unfortunately this is hardly ever done. People prefer to expel them with amulets, exorcisms, etc... that divert them more than frighten them, when doesn't make them more furious and lead to a worse situation.

The bad spirits also don't want to follow the law, and they don't. But they are subjected to, as well as ourselves.

Earth is a planet where evil always was given the power, with the permission and controlling of the good, although now the evil is losing more and more space. But in the world of the Spirits the good always dominated, every time, everywhere.

That's my opinion.

Best Regards.

Rafael.

Hi, I understand what you are saying however, Demonics are not spirits, they never lived or died. Human Spirits will watch over someone but is no match for the Demonic entity, and never interact as they are not actually in the same plane or league. Demonic entities are diabolical, dark, negative totally evil entities that detest human beings and will go to any extreme to wear us down so that we lose faith, our religion and if they had their way, our souls. A Demonic haunting is not "allowed" to happen, it just happens and catches most totally off guard. The best way IMO to rid your life of these monsters IS a fumigation or exorcism of a home before someone gets hurt. They tend to be very intelligent, and know everything about us, what we fear, what we love, to our dirty little secrets, and they use that to drive the average person nearly insane, or suicide. I agree, that good wins out every time, but look at the evil going on in your city, in your state in your Country? Not sure who is winning at this point..JN

JN, I still insist that demons don't exist and they could never have existed in the normal acception of the word: a being eternally devoted to evil and eternally destinated to the hell. This is easily rationally demonstrated, because, even being evil, they are rational; and rational beings can always susceptible to become better, if it's showed another perspective of life; in other words, they can be persuaded to become better and better. Of course that in a first moment they will only transform from evil to less evil, but it still represents a progress.

They are normally monsters, I agree, and their actual state is a punishment for the life they chosen. They suffer strongly, and of course they don't want to suffer. If they are convinced that, once abandoning the desire of evil they will be supported by the good, the result can be very good. In my point of view this is a better an easier way to get rid of hauntings. And if you do your part of the job well, but the spirit (or demon as you said) don't emend after a time, God himself will order an end to the haunting. But I don't believe this would be the most cases.

The only thing that is good to know is that these spirits can't kill or strongly hurt anyone. And God and the good spirits will protect who seriously tries to convince these devils to look for the light. But a punishment can also be waited by who just want to joke with them. This subject has to be treated always seriously, and in this base, there is no danger. History proves it.

In Brazil is very common to have "disobsession meetings", where these kinds of spirits are called (evoked) and where they receive good advices. Many emend their ways. I posted a few days ago a story where this was done in the nineteenth century. They are similarly done today. If you want to read, click here.

Best Regards.

the only documented case of a spirit killing a human was the Bell Witch case, right? Sure you can't really trust a record that old. . .without doing a proper investigation, anyone could have killed him and blamed it on the spirit. . .but after he died the spirit never bothered the family again (I think). . .

But dont forget, that she died from the Exorcisms performed too often IMO..JN

ok this is what I beleive, if a demon...or even a human spirit...yes...that is what I said human spirit...lol, can throw things, scratch you, shove you, what makes you think they can push you of the stairs??? Hell, there was even a story of a pregnant woman pushed down the stairs in a basement where they were reconstructing it. She said she felt the spirit shove her.

Was she badly hurt? Did she lose the baby?

actually ive had cases where there was 2 deaths caused by ghosts or demonds...

Nope she was ok...but she never went down there again....the family moved after that,....the basement...when they reasearcehed on it found out that criminals who had their heads cut off was thrown down this well...that was in this basement. OMG...I could go on and on...I need to stop...lol...But yes she was ok

Demons can kill people. But they have to have permission first. Believe it or not there are ranks. Powerful demons can easily kill a human or worse make you kill yourself.

I don’t know on what really happened . It could be very well an coincidence and I have no proof that it happened. My cat’s kitty had died down in the basement. We had thought that Cuddles, the mother, had taken him away and leaving him lost. My Ouija Board was in the basement a few days ago and I picked it up and placed it leaning on my pc. My eldest son(17) and his friends must have been playing with it. I wonder what they used for a planchetta? Anyway, we began to smell something dead and I looked everywhere to find where it was coming from. After about a 15 mins of searching, I find something orange n furry in a corner behind the dryer. Moving the dryer forward and there it was..dead. He must have been dead for awhile, like a couple days. Poor thing. I reflect back at the times when I had seen that Board in my son’s room. What I find strange about it is that I couldn’t find what had caused the kittie’s downfall. My son really loved that cat too. Its outside in a black garbage bag ready for a burial. Angela, my daughter(9), is making a Cross.

Could you share with us?

They could inspire us to kill ourselves or other people. But it's to avoid things like that we have our discernment. If we fall, it's also our fault. No one can excuse to the justice by having killed controlled by spirits.

Best Regards.

well one man was choked to death ....he was in his garage and some thing unseeable suffercated him....the 1st time he got away blamed it on maybe azma but the doc said he didnt have azma a few weeks later......then he was working on his car and was found dead with indication of strangulation.....doors were locked and his wife was home no sigh of struggle

"Demonics have been known to keep human spirits held back (as hostages, so to speak)"? How do you back this up as "being known"? Yes, the laws are governed by God, but God informs us that the dead cannot communicate with the living. That right there confirms that anything people experience are demons (as THEY do interact with the living -- not to be confused with real human spirits since demons are deceptive as good most times, often using trickery in trying to make the living THINK they are seeing/experiencing a deceased human spirit -- not true!), however, I do not believe that demons "hold back" or make "hostage" of deceased human spirits, as those immediately go to heaven or hell, as described by God of the Bible. Human spirits are not floating around here on earth like the demons do, as so many people seem to think. And it is certainly not due to demons "holding them back". Demons and deceased human spirits don't mingle.

Yes, demons can cause death. Anything that can cause objects to move and can affect humans by touch or by another object can cause a death. That's not a point to ponder, it's obvious cause and effect.