Hello all,

In relation to the comment's I've received in 'Mainstream science makes us look stupid', for those who are interested, I'll use this forum to post articles and other relevant information regarding Rael's claims.

Feel free to comment - it will be interesting to see what you all have to say!

Thanks!

-Josh

RAELIAN CLAIM:Rael has said that the Elohim (the ET's who created us) are very short. Yahweh, their leader, is 1.2m tall.

POSSIBILITY 1:

The 'hobbit' remains found in Indonesia, Rael said, were the remains of one of these alien creators. Check out the article on the remains at:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...oresiensis.html

Some relevant highlights:

"Scientists have found skeletons of a hobbit-like species of human that grew no larger than a three-year-old modern child. The tiny humans, who had skulls about the size of grapefruits, lived with pygmy elephants and Komodo dragons on a remote island in Indonesia 18,000 years ago."

Rael's said that the Elohim look like small children and are around 1.2m in height.

"Scientists have determined that the first skeleton they found belongs to a species of human completely new to science."

We were actually made scientifically in thier image after their likeness (see Genesis).

"The species inhabited Flores as recently as 13,000 years ago, which means it would have lived at the same time as modern humans, scientists say."

What do evolutionists have to say to THAT?! Obviously the exiled creators lived along side their human creations....read the ancient texts. They always talk about people giving gifts and food to the God's in their temples. The texts always present a time where 'Gods' were very real and tangible people who lived alongside humanity.

POSSIBILITY 2: The 'Crop Circle' Message

We received a reply to information that we sent out in 1974 that told aliens various info about ourselves, including our height. They wrote back:

http://www.cropcircleresearch.com/articles/arecibo.html

In this reply the crop circle said that their average height is 3’4 – or 1 metre.

Genetics made them short

Your point is?

This species of human (one of the Elohim) lived alongside our humanity. They are similar, but very different species. If human evolution is true (we evolved over millions of years into todays form) then how can we have two difference species of human?

Genetics made them short? Genetics made them an entirely different humanoid. It's from a different race.

My point is that these articles show that Rael was right in what he has stated about the Elohim and we have evidence for it (although, not complete proof as some of you would understand, but at least enough to be looked into).

RAELIAN CLAIM: Yahweh told Rael: "We had reached a level of technical and scientific knowledge, compareable to that which you will soon reach. Our scientist has started to create primitive, embryonic forms of life, namely living cells in test tubes."

POSSIBILITY?: Scientist Craig Venter....who is so close to creating what the Elohim said that we would do 'soon' (in the space of a few decades from the message given in 1973).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Venter

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/29/science/29cells.html

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/227

http://www.raelianews.org/news.php?item.91.3

RAELIAN CLAIM: Rael has stated that Adam and Eve were black.

POSSIBILITY?: The DNA of all human beings is so close that everyone with knowledge of science agrees we are all one species. Whether a seven foot tall Caucasian or a four foot tall Pygmy adult, our genes are so close that we humans are, in a very real sense, all brothers and sisters. The Elohim shared their basic genetic information with the other groups of Elohim over the planet and they altered skin colour, eyes, hair etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Adam

http://books.google.com/books?id=5tP5Wb92w...umbnail#PPR7,M1

RAELIAN CLAIM: Rael has said that the Elohim have said that they extend their cell life to a mimimum of 750 years – so this is their life span.

POSSIBILITY?:

http://io9.com/345728/geneticists-discover...ns-to-800-years

RAELIAN CLAIM: Rael has said that the Elohim are recording our thoughts/memory/personality on advanced computers and when we die they can recreate our body by taking a sample of our cell and then download those thoughts/memory/personality into the fresh clone. This is how eternal life is achieved. Yahweh told Rael: [Human cloning] is very easy to do and you will do it some day."

POSSIBILITY:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7304852.stm#7

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1491056.stm

http://atheism.about.com/library/chronolog...sci_cloning.htm

http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/anissimov20080319/

http://www.raelianews.org/news.php?item.77.3

RAELIAN CLAIM: Yahweh told Rael: ‘The animals were also created and will be recreated” & "The speciies that disappear will live again when you know how to recreate them.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anima...ave_been_cloned (List of Animals that have been recreated)

http://www.worldpress.org/Asia/633.cfm (Plans to recreate Tassie Tiger)

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cf...jectid=10111371 (Project to recreate Tassie Tiger stopped due to poor sample)

http://www.extinctanimal.com/cloning.htm (Recreating extinct animals)

RAELIAN CLAIM: Yahweh told Rael that the Elohim's planet is 9000 Billion km away - a little less than a light year. If the nearest star (by our calculations)is 4 light years away, how can this be possible?

POSSIBILITY: Raelian scientists have hypothesised that the Elohim's planet could be 4 light years by following the light which could be moving in a pronounced curve – but would only be 1 light year away if we travelled in a straight line. Light doesn’t move at the same speed in all strata of the universe.


RAELIAN CLAIM: Yahweh told Rael that the Elohim travel using an atom-based propulsion method which lets them move at the speed of rays – 7 times faster than the speed of light.

POSSIBILITY:

http://www.livescience.com/technology/050819_fastlight.html

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/...91005114024.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/...91005114024.htm

Well firstly Josh, thanks for your reply and mainly for actually doing research, something that is all too rare around here. Right....



There is still no consensus about whether H.floresiensis was a new species or not, but this is irrelevent; it is thought that they may have existed alongside humans about 18,000 years ago only 12,000 after the Neanderthals died out about. Not long by evolutionary standards. But I don't see anyone claiming that Neanderthals were alien gods.

Also, they are anatomically closer to early humans and apes than modern humans. Peter Brown from the University of New England in Armidale says in the above article:

"H.floresiensis is a valid species, unrelated to Homo sapiens, with an African root earlier than 1.8 million years ago."

I fail to see how an ape-like modern human can be considered to be a god-like alien, especially as they used stone tools; hardly the mark of an advanced civilisation.

You have a pre-formed conclusion and are looking for evidence to fit it. All the evidence points to the hobbit being an undiscovered branch of the homo tree, and none of it to it being an extraterrestrial god. It is not "obviuosly" evidence of anything you are claiming, and it has been explained by evolutionists.



They did not "write back". You're presenting flimsy hypothesis as if it were solid fact. Again, all evidence about crop circles points to very mundane origins.

And again, you're fitting - ahem - evidence to your theory; aliens under a metre tall of some description have been prevalent since they first began. It does not prove anything you claim.

There have been several branches in the homo genus:

Homo habilis (Handy Man)
Homo rudolfensis (Rudolf Man)
Homo ergaster (Working Man)
Homo erectus (Upright Man)
Homo floresiensis (Flores Man; discovered 2003. Species status remains under debate.)
Homo antecessor (Predecessor Man)
Homo heidelbergensis (Heidelberg Man)
Homo neanderthalensis (Neanderthal Man)
Homo rhodesiensis (Rhodesia Man)
Homo cepranensis (Ceprano Man)
Homo georgicus (Georgia Man)
Homo sapiens
- Homo sapiens idaltu (elderly wise man — discovered 1997)
- Homo sapiens sapiens (Wise Man; modern humans)

As you can see, we are not even the only type of homo sapien - we are h. sapien sapien. Your question about different types of human only goes to prove you have no knowledge of the workings of evolution, it does not prove anything you claim.



He was not right at all. You're arbitrarily deciding to miss out a huge portion of evolutionary history, concentrating on one single area and claiming it is evidence of what you believe, when all it shows is how willing you are to twist the facts in your favour, like almost every creationist or ID propent around.



This is a flimsy argument. We have been over this before: in 1902 Hans Spemann divided an embryo in two and showed embryo cells retain all the genetic information necessary to create a new organism. Tadpoles were cloned in 1952.

Your prophet was out by over 20 years.

Again, you are mistaking what was pretty much common knowledge at the time for prophetic vision. We have known since the 1920s that humans came from Africa.

And as for your claim, the first half is spot on. We are one species. Then suddenly you swerve into unfounded nonsense territory, with an utterly baseless and completely unprovable claim about alien origins.

You are, again, proving nothing.

So what are you claiming here - that the closest star to earth is actually 1 LY away, not 4? And how does this relate to moving faster than the speed of light?


Well 2 of your links don't work, and the other says that the particles that make up light can be sped up and slowed down. An object with mass cannot move faster than the speed of light. This would make the object take on infinte mass and would use more energy than the entire universe contains.

Again, you're finding tenuous facts that don't even slightly support your theory and focusing on a tiny part of them to make your ideas sound scientifically viable. Which they aren't.

I would first like to say that this belongs in another section. More specifically the Alien board or religion boards not the science board.



The 'hobbit' species was in no way advanced enough to create humans as they weren't even smart enough to sustain their own species. Further investigation into the species shows that the furthest point they had reached in their development was bone and stone tools. The skull size as well paints a picture of the brain which was considerably smaller then ours and likely less dense as well.

Your possibility becomes more and more improbable the further I look into it. To put it simply I think the possibility of what you say is so remote that for argument sake I will just say it's impossible.



Since crop circles have been shown to be easily hoaxed and hoaxing cannot be ruled out this so called message cannot even be considered as evidence for anything.



Scientists have created embryonic life in test tubes for years.

What Craig Venter did was engineer genetic code and implant into the cell membrane of a bacteria... Essentially and artificial life form, this is not a primitive embryonic life form in a test tube, trust me I know about this stuff I work with genetics all the time.



There were no Adam and Eve, we evolved from other primates.

Evolution can be seen on the genetic level, if you for example look at the DNA of all mammals you will find very little variance in the genetic code. What this proves is that all mammals came from a common ancestor.

You can also see similarities in a near endless number of species that shows evolution as well such as 2 eyes, nose, mouth and bone structure etc. While some animal species like say a mouse appear to be radically different they really aren't internally and share many of the same features that humans have.

RAELIAN CLAIM: Rael has said that the Elohim have said that they extend their cell life to a mimimum of 750 years – so this is their life span.



While you may be able to extend cell life containing DNA, red blood cells cannot be. Nano technology as well as other technologies can theoretically extend cell life indefinitely. While this discovery is pretty big I can off the top of my head think of theoretical ways we can live forever.



Impossible

Cloning yourself and uploading your brains information is not living eternally it is simply duplicating yourself, you will still die and a copy is what lives on.



Proxima Centauri a red dwarf is the closest star to Earth next to our own sun of course and it is about 4.2 light years away making the claim that the alien home world is about 1 light year away totally false. if the light was curving as your pseudo scientists claim then there would have to be a massive gravitational force altering it's trajectory curving the light, and when I say massive I mean like a black hole.

===

All in all after reviewing your claims I can conclude this Rael guy is about as looney tunes as Tom Cruise.

Nice one AG, once again more concise and scientific than I could ever be!

Hi there,

Thanks for your research - it was you, in fact, who inspired me to check around and present facts, instead of just telling everyone in the forum what I've read. Thanks for looking into what I've presented.

-Josh

Yet they only lived in caves on a small island without access to technolgy, and all got killed. Despite their advanced knowledge of genetics and startravel. Umm... no... I dont think so.



Because evolution isnt linear. It doesnt happen in a straight line. Thats why its called the evolutionary tree. Species brach off, live along side their counterparts and eventually go extinct either before or after they branch off again.



So why do you call them human above?



Where is the evidence that homo floresiencis has any relation to Rael's claim?



How soon is soon? This sounds all too much like this prediction I will make:
I am god, therefore I know that the human species will soon reach a levl of technical and scientific knowledge where they will use nanobots in all walks of life.

Am I god?



Hah, its a shame that distance does not measure "pronounced curves" but "straight lines". The nearest star is Proxima Centauri, ~4 light years in a straight line.

This whole Raelian thing is as nutty as Scientology.

The only real difference is Hubbard knew it was all BS.

I'd like to thank you (and the others) here in this forum for helping me to question my beliefs. The information you've all presented is good and leaves me asking: If the Raelian 'science' can't be proven and that most of Rael's 'predictions' started their infancy way before he stepped onto the scene, what can we conclude with?

That he made it all up? That he chose stupid claims like evolution is wrong and that their planet is 1 light year away just to be silly? Surely he should have made it all up in line with the science of the day?

-Josh

Hmm, not necessairly. Why? He needed those claims to make his religion "fantastical", and it is this that also attracts people. If it were more... mundane, it wouldnt be as popular.

No, because that wouldn't make him a prophetic leader would it? And I'm not saying he just made it up - he may well believe what he said. The point being that the stuff that is correct had been previously established and only goes to prove that he was well read in certain areas, and the stuff that isn't correct is utterly unprovable.

Again, I'm not trying to get you to not believe what you believe, or turn anyone off their religion - but please don't try to convince other people that modern science has it all wrong, or that religious faith should be testable in a lab.

I agree 110 % I want 110% proof of Raelian not here say or someones freaking dream.

I agree with you - there are many things that Rael has said that are unprovable and this is a faith, you were correct on this point. No matter how hard we Raelians try to justify ourselves as a religion of science, it is undoubtably a faith because no research today has proven Rael's "future" claims. Who knows? Perhaps in 5 years all of these things will be proven and you may remember back to this forum?

You're right - I shouldn't try to convince other people that modern science has it all wrong. I realise that modern science is a 'religon' of sorts to people and I shouldn't ridicule their beliefs. I agree that religion often makes the mistake of trying to mix itself with science.

Who's ass is in your avatar? I can't stop looking....

-Josh

OK, we'll agree to disagree but I take issue with your description of science as a "religion".

Religion is "a set of beliefs and practices often organized around supernatural and moral claims". Science is based around empirical evidence that doesn't change depending on who's studying it.

What I've presented here is just the tip of the iceberg...

To anyone who is interested in researching for yourself the connections between the Raelian Movement and science, you can subscribe to RaelScience, where you'll received emails each day with articles that show what Rael talked about years ago is coming true now - thanks to science.

Subscribe at: -Edit-

For the latest news around the world relating to Rael's teachings, check out: - Edit-

Wasn't that the thread we ending up pwning you in?


Evolutionists don't exist... It is a degrading term to those who follow the HUGE empirical amounts of evidence for evolution today, including evolution we CAN SEE.

So? Btw, it is obvious that the Homo floresiensis is RELATED to humans, as DNA samples have been done.
They were part of our genus, homo.

Hobbits PROVED to be related to humans, and fake crop circles somehow prove these aliens?


OK. We've explained SO MANY BLOODY TIMES WHY EVOLUTION IS A FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
God PLEASE just do a search, check out my posts in:
"Evolutionists believe Birds came from dinosaurs?"
"Mainstream Science Makes us look stupid?"
"Questions for YECs/Young Earth Creationists"
etc, etc, etc.

[rant]
COUNTLESS TIMES WE have shown the THOUSANDS OF EXAMPLES OF MICRO EVOLUTION, EXPLAINED HOW IT IS NO DIFFERENT THEN MACRO EVOLUTION, GIVEN EXAMPLES OF MACRO EVOLUTION, EXPLAINED WHY THE EARTH/UNIVERSE ARE VERY OLD, GIVEN EXAMPLES OF SPECIATION, EXPLAINED THE HUGE AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE IN THE FOSSIL RECORD, again, again, again,
again,again,again,again,again,again,again,again,again,again,again,
again,again,again,again,again,again,again,again,again,again,again,again,again,
again,again,again,again,again,again,again,again,again,again,again,again,again,ag
ain,again,again,
again,again,again,again,again,again,again,again,again,again,again,again,again,ag
ain,again,again,again,
and again.
[/rant]
After a while, it gets annoying.

However, for problems just like this, I'm currently working on a website with some of the best information I've found on UM, and everything, so all I'll have to do is point to that!

Cheers,
SQLserver.

Uh, take a deep breath.

I havent seen this brought up yet,so i thought i'd ask what you think about this:You say that we,the people of earth were not created by GOD.We were made by E.T's.I know you dont believe in God,you said so on one of my now closed threads.Said the thought of a "GOD" was silly.Well,as we all have dfferent opinions,and i have mine(of course) and mine is we WERE MADE BY GOD,i just have to ask the most obvious question:If god in his infinite wisdom created all the heavens and the earth,and you think it was E.T.'s who created us.............. Then who created the E.T's?

Can you imagine, going in for a job interview, dressed in a space cadet uniform? And, explaining you believe you have good experience talking to flying saucers?

I can not think of one legit business... Except, maybe a psych evaluation.

Oh okay, sure I'll try to answer that one.

First, I'd like to point out that whilst it's thought that God created EVERYTHING in the universe, our creators didn't. They only discovered the planet Earth and designed life on it. That's all.

So, with that in mind, how did we come about? We were designed by advanced people. Where did those advanced people come from? They were created by advanced people. Where did they come from? Well, they too were designed by advanced people....and so on for infinity.

The universe is infinite, and it never began and it will never stop. This isn't a new thought at all in science (google Neil Turok) or religion (Buddhism amongst others).

Life has to come from life, it can't just appear out of nowhere, right? Even your belief in God states that we came from life. God is alive and he created life. So, does this mean that you agree that life has to come from life? With evolution, it's stated that it randomly appears and comes from nowhere - just the right conditions and the right time frame.

Does this answer your question?

Also, could you tell me what religion you are? It'd be interesting to know a bit about your path to finding God.

Thanks again,

-Josh

Ok,you believe GOD created EVERYTHING,*except* us humans...i dunno where you're lack of faith occured.....but to read what i have about You're belief system,and how you were into santanism,and what not,you lost your way in my opinion.A man must see some kind of proof is what i think you are looking for.I did at one point or another wonder if there was a god,and if so why am i sufferring like this...what is it that makes us stronger?PAIN,SUFFERING,trials,to make us BETTER.When i finally said to god,"hey,if your up there,why is this all happening?Why are you letting this all happen(lots of bad stuff was going on in my life,and i was starting to lose faith) Then,just like a whisper,i heard look up king jamesV1.2...Hmmm.Ok,i'll look it up and you know what...here is the deal:I dont read the Bible...too long,most of it is just parts that the top guys in the area of editing had removed most of the real text..etc...but i looked up what i heard,and here that is: Testing of Your Faith
2(A) Count it all joy, my brothers,[a] when you meet trials( of various kinds, 3for you know that© the testing of your faith(D) produces steadfastness. 4And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be(E) perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.
5(F) If any of you lacks wisdom,(G) let him ask God,(H) who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him. 6But(I) let him ask in faith,(J) with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like(K) a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. 7For that person must not suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8(L) he is a double-minded man,(M) unstable in all his ways. ...after that,i was not thinking"this is just a fluke" no,i dont think so.It was specific,and i even had one more little problem,and wanted to know why dont you protect us from what is happenning?...And agian,in a whisper,i heard him say just this: Psalm 91...ok...i'll look.And here is what it says: Psalm 91
1 He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High
will rest in the shadow of the Almighty. [a]

2 I will say [b] of the LORD, "He is my refuge and my fortress,
my God, in whom I trust."

3 Surely he will save you from the fowler's snare
and from the deadly pestilence.

4 He will cover you with his feathers,
and under his wings you will find refuge;
his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.

5 You will not fear the terror of night,
nor the arrow that flies by day,

6 nor the pestilence that stalks in the darkness,
nor the plague that destroys at midday.

7 A thousand may fall at your side,
ten thousand at your right hand,
but it will not come near you.

8 You will only observe with your eyes
and see the punishment of the wicked.

9 If you make the Most High your dwelling—
even the LORD, who is my refuge-

10 then no harm will befall you,
no disaster will come near your tent.

11 For he will command his angels concerning you
to guard you in all your ways;

12 they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.

13 You will tread upon the lion and the cobra;
you will trample the great lion and the serpent.

14 "Because he loves me," says the LORD, "I will rescue him;
I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name.

15 He will call upon me, and I will answer him;
I will be with him in trouble,
I will deliver him and honor him.

16 With long life will I satisfy him
and show him my salvation."
So i dont have any doubt....i have seen real signs,and i dont need to be "Mr.skeptic" when it comes to just knowing.He's there.You just haven't tried to be more in touch with him.He is there.You just have to have something you are lacking in:FAITH.....But i know it does take a tragic event in our life sometimes to make us STOP and ask...i know....Ya know what you might find more Enlightning?A really great video,one that if you watch it all of it,might just help you see things different.And i do mean all of it.Spend two hours watching this,and then get back to me,let me know what you think.Here it is: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1131942400352901009

Confusing evolution with abiogenesis there. The two are completely different theories.

NO! We Raelians don't believe that God created everything and that aliens created life on Earth. There is no God. The universe we live in has always been and will always be, and the life that is created in it is created by advanced people from other planets.

Just to make clear - we believe that there is no god.

My dabbling in satanism (not devil woship or anything like that, google Anton Szandor Lavey's Satanism) was equalled by my dabbling in Christianity and Buddhism and through my years of searching I've come to accept the Raelian Religion, because it anwers all of my questions. There was no loss of faith because I never had it to begin with....I was searching for many years.

That's an interesting story about how you lost your faith and got it back again and the most beautiful thing about religion is that you don't have to try to convince anyone about what you believe in. I'm sure you've seen things and signs, as I have too, however you have convinced yourself that it's god and I've convinced myself that it's our ET creators.

I'll check out the video and get back to you....

-josh

So,that was the problem.I missunderstood.My bad.I thought you beleived...well never mind.So you believe were all a bunch of alien butt babies....that would explain this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYZOgO_hE3E ....Lol!Well i hope you have a sense of humour,being that im not sure your religion has a sense of humour.I do,and i dont hold it against you that believe what ya do.Believe what you want...it's all about free will.Not Freeing will,that's a movie coming out late this summer.I think.

We certainly do have a sense of humour! Laughter opens the mind, laughter helps up to live longer. If we lose the ability to laugh (especially at ourselves) then we've become mentally ill. We were created to laugh, to love and to enjoy life!

-Josh

Thats a great example of cosmic irony, a worshiper of the giant sky man and his dead son finds humor in the beliefs of others......

Well someone missed the point....your comment's are just offensive,not funny.And I think funny is subjective,but still there is some people who get it....... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fghO_DyJpLk